MattyT Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 They brought back the Taurus. As in, they were all out of new crappy ideas, so the brought back an old crappy in the name of progress. I'm pretty sure they turned the Taurus into a mini-van too. "Just call it a Taurus and everyone will want one!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 So let the companies go under and have possibly millions more out of work? Question... did the bank execs show up in DC via private jets? Weren't they bailed out as well? I do not agree with them doing that. But it means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme. Still here? Still failing to understand the difference between bankruptcy and liquidation? And of course, still refusing to answer the question ACor, me and others have been asking: Why do UAW workers deserve to earn $5 more per hour than non-UAW workers? What skills or qualifications do they have to justify the premium for their services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Yeah. My Lexus is nearly identical to the Lincoln Town Car. HAHAHAHA. No... But you could have got a Toyota Avalon (if that is the Lexus Model they use for the Avalon or vice-a-versa) for a lot cheaper. Don't know what model you have?... Maybe try a Caddy line... Now... A while back... Infiniti SUV's were rebadged Isuzu's... Don't quote me on that, becuase I haven't checked... But, you get the point. Isuzu pick-ups where nothing but Chevy S-10's... Cincy can probably verify some of the cross-gender vevicles. I am just saying... A lot of vehicles share the same components yet, they companies add different styling... Styling sells... Why else would you buy a "Lexus?" Enlighten me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Why do UAW workers deserve to earn $5 more per hour than non-UAW workers? What skills or qualifications do they have to justify the premium for their services? well, they do have to pay union dues don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I hear Ralphie is going to buy 50 of these new Tauruses Rexes. They should bring back the Ford Tempo...remember how every single one of those saddies had a nice rust line along the trunk opening? Quality is Job 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Nope. Because the same thing has been said for at least the last two months by people who understand the situation, yet here we are. Why does everyone think that bankruptcy means that all employees of the Big 3 will be out of a job, and the companies will close their doors to never make another car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Read up on it a bit and then let me know where I can buy a 2009 Contour with a 2.5-liter five cylinder turbo. Why do you need the turbo... Are you racing at Watkin's Glen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 The repairs issue may well be true. I haven't repaired a car in 10 years (nor have I needed to because I buy Japanese cars!). I used to be under the hood of all the crap cars I owned. Back then, my Caprice Classic was by far the easiest to repair and VW Rabbit was the worst but that was mostly because (1) there was no room in the engine compartment and (b) it was a piece of sh--. I agree... When buying ANYTHING NEW NOW, I don't have to repair it... Maybe change radio, GPS, etc... systems myself... Yet, I hold cars for 10-15 years and well over the service life of any vehicle (+250,000 and beyond)... For me 2006 was a perfect storm year... I replaced both vehicles the same year... Just because I wanted to... But, I do not plan on getting anything else until almost 2020... God willing I don't wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Why does everyone think that bankruptcy means that all employees of the Big 3 will be out of a job, and the companies will close their doors to never make another car? Scare tactics so they can get their free money and keep right on going with the same wasteful, greedy practices. At least until the next bailout request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Why do you need the turbo... Are you racing at Watkin's Glen? Because I'm the consumer and that's what I want to drive. Gee, you must work for the big 3 since you're trying to tell me what I want instead of trying to meet my demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 So let the companies go under and have possibly millions more out of work? Question... did the bank execs show up in DC via private jets? Weren't they bailed out as well? I do not agree with them doing that. But it means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme. Bad mentality here. My sister is 4 years younger than me (1972 she was born)... She was given a car when she graduated from HS... Me? I was shown where the bank door was... Really. Yet, I am better for it... She abused here car to know ends... The more you are given... The more you take it for granted. I am not trying to be a wise guy... But, you can see the real change over in American society those four year between when my sister and I were born (1968 to 1972)... Our family started having more and more expendable income and it showed later on when my parents could buy a car for my sister. And I am going to generalize again... And I know it is wrong... But, the sooner we rid ourselves of the Baby-Boomers, the better we will be... Too bad their lasting legacy will always be with us. /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 No... But you could have got a Toyota Avalon (if that is the Lexus Model they use for the Avalon or vice-a-versa) for a lot cheaper. Don't know what model you have?... Maybe try a Caddy line... I test drove the Cadillac and actually liked it didn't have "it" for me. When I'm spending that kind of scratch, things better be close to perfect. I hated the sight lines mostly. I like the car a lot. I think I test drove an STS. I am just saying... A lot of vehicles share the same components yet, they companies add different styling... Styling sells... Why else would you buy a "Lexus?" Enlighten me please. The Lexus ES is a suped up Camry (or as the Audi saleman told me, "It's a Camry with a leather interior.") As you said, styling sells. I got a vehicle allowance through my work that (at the time) I had to use or lose. I chose to "use" it and shopped for the style and type of car I wanted. I test drove a lot of cars in the Lexus/Caddy vein and liked the Lexus the best. It wasn't the sportiest ride by far but I liked the interior, lines, and comfortable (almost like an older big American car) ride. So that's where I landed. Now my vehicle allowance is just cash so I probably won't buy another luxury car because I'd rather have the cash. When it comes time to buy my next car, I'll shop around in the large sedan category and rule out nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Because I'm the consumer and that's what I want to drive. Gee, you must work for the big 3 since you're trying to tell me what I want instead of trying to meet my demand. No. The problem is the Big 3 NEVER told you what to drive... They met your demand... Now it is time to tell you what you want to drive. The Big 3 were giving everybody what they wanted the last time gas was a buck fity cent a gallon... And didn't they get crucified for that when gas hit almost a fin a gallon? Now you want the Big 3 to meet your demand again with a turbo... A high maint turbo? Again, didn't they get their pee-pees whacked for that last time... I knew this would come full circle... There is no dealing with the crazy American consumer... The Big 3 should just get out of the business all together and let someone else be the whipping boy than dealing with the American consumer that acts like Cybil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Scare tactics so they can get their free money and keep right on going with the same wasteful, greedy practices. At least until the next bailout request. While using the pretext that the banking sector has just received a $1 trillion bailout and Wall Street fat cats are swimming in champagne... ... while ignoring the $$ billions of wiped out market value in US financials' stocks, 200,000 + jobs lost (mostly middle class workers) and the closing of 3 brand name franchise investment banks. That's quite the fat bailout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I test drove the Cadillac and actually liked it didn't have "it" for me. When I'm spending that kind of scratch, things better be close to perfect. I hated the sight lines mostly. I like the car a lot. I think I test drove an STS. The Lexus ES is a suped up Camry (or as the Audi saleman told me, "It's a Camry with a leather interior.") As you said, styling sells. I got a vehicle allowance through my work that (at the time) I had to use or lose. I chose to "use" it and shopped for the style and type of car I wanted. I test drove a lot of cars in the Lexus/Caddy vein and liked the Lexus the best. It wasn't the sportiest ride by far but I liked the interior, lines, and comfortable (almost like an older big American car) ride. So that's where I landed. Now my vehicle allowance is just cash so I probably won't buy another luxury car because I'd rather have the cash. When it comes time to buy my next car, I'll shop around in the large sedan category and rule out nothing. Fair enough... It sounds like you know what you like... Go for it! You do see how it is hard to please the fickle American public. I once bought an Olympus underwater camera housing... I had to buy it from a dealer in Europe (Switz)... They wouldn't sell it in the US because of the warranty issues and laws... One grain of sand on the o-ring and the camera gets flooded... The American consumer comes back b*tching he wants a new one from Olympus... Needless to say, my direction were written in Japanese That was a tangent... But it can be tied in. Just watch the issues the Japs will have to deal with when the Big 3 go under... Just watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 That was a tangent... But it can be tied in. Just watch the issues the Japs will have to deal with when the Big 3 go under... Just watch. Brilliant. The progressives must be proud of their foot soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 While using the pretext that the banking sector has just received a $1 trillion bailout and Wall Street fat cats are swimming in champagne... ... while ignoring the $$ billions of wiped out market value in US financials' stocks, 200,000 + jobs lost (mostly middle class workers) and the closing of 3 brand name franchise investment banks. That's quite the fat bailout. I want to see them in soup lines, then I will buy you argument. Show me the pain and I will feel sorry and help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Brilliant. The progressives must be proud of their foot soldiers. I am nowhere near progressive with stuff like this. Oh, and the enviro movement too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantelliotoffen Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Still here? Still failing to understand the difference between bankruptcy and liquidation? And of course, still refusing to answer the question ACor, me and others have been asking: Why do UAW workers deserve to earn $5 more per hour than non-UAW workers? What skills or qualifications do they have to justify the premium for their services? I thought that you were against class warfare? I'm not registered with either major party myself, though I place much more weight on the issues that I disagree with the Dems on (taxes, class warfare, lack of personal accountability) than on those I disagree with the GOP on (mostly social issues per my other post). Of course, the Democrats are just as bad and they promote class warfare and race baiting along the way. I would like someone to shake the tree too...but in an intelligent manner. Rehashing the same old socialist, class warfare bullsh-- is hardly 'shaking the tree'. They've been trying to do just that in CT for years. Just another angle on the class warfare bullsh--. Looks like someone can't keep his talking points straight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 No. The problem is the Big 3 NEVER told you what to drive... They met your demand... Now it is time to tell you what you want to drive. The Big 3 were giving everybody what they wanted the last time gas was a buck fity cent a gallon... And didn't they get crucified for that when gas hit almost a fin a gallon? Now you want the Big 3 to meet your demand again with a turbo... A high maint turbo? Again, didn't they get their pee-pees whacked for that last time... I knew this would come full circle... There is no dealing with the crazy American consumer... The Big 3 should just get out of the business all together and let someone else be the whipping boy than dealing with the American consumer that acts like Cybil. Of course I want them to meet my demand. If they don't, then I buy from someone who will. This is the way it works. Some companies are better at adjusting to market demand. Some sit stagnant and wait for the market to come to them. Some need bailing out. FWIW, I don't give two sh#ts about the turbo. I just want a good car. The Countour was an econo-box when they made it in US and the Mondeo (which continues to thrive in Europe) is now a really nice car. Why isn't Ford making anything this sexy in the US? http://www.tuningnews.net/news/080506b/for...-x-sport-01.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Bring Back the Yugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Bring Back the Yugo Or this one!! http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-conte...et-chevette.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I want to see them in soup lines, then I will buy you argument. Show me the pain and I will feel sorry and help out. Are you really that dense? (Why am I even asking) Most of the jobs lost on Wall Street have not been by the highflyers, but by the support staff, secretaries and back office people. Way to only consider the unfortunate ones who command the kind-hearted press attention by lazy journalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Yes, again. Blame the union. The unions cost the Big Three over $70/man hour, while Toyota and Honda employees cost $49/man hour. Greed is never good, whether it's the employee or the employer who's guilty of the vice. We need to stop calling this a bail out. It's a loan. No, a loan is contingent on the recipient demonstrating they have good credit, good debt-to-income ratios, and have a business model that convinces the lender that they will not default. In this case, none of the minimum criteria for a loan has been met. It is a bailout. And I think it's sad that republicans are so willing to break the unions that they will let this fail. Just goes to show that their states aren't effected as much. No, it shows that they understand the reason our country is in such bad shape right now is our lending institutions made a habit of giving out trillions of dollars in unsecured loans to those who had bad credit or no credit at all. To extend this bad policy to the unions would be fiscally irresponsible and have a devastating impact on our economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Teachers on Long Island earn $120,000 to work 7 or 8 months per year. Do you think that their paid 3 month summer vacation is "fair?" How about the week or more for Christmas, Easter, and the "Winter Recess," along with every holiday known to mankind? It seems that you merely choose to sympathize with a different set of featherbedders. Bill I think you are a bit misguided here, http://www.suffolkcountyny.gov/police/new/recruitment.htm http://www.police.nassaucountyny.gov/recruitment.htm These are the advertised rates on long island for police officers, on both pages they state salaries do not include overtime and other fringe benefits. Both average in the 90k range after 5 years not bad for a job you don't need much more education than 60 hours of undergrad which is cheap. Now lets look at the teachers who have to have at least a bachelors to start and a masters degree by their 5th year on the job: Their average salaries according to the school district are between 66-75k per year with an average tenure of 10-12 years in Nassau and Suffolk counties http://www.longislandschools.com/ I don't know, maybe I'm reading the numbers wrong but it doesn't look like the police are getting a lot less money... Oh before you guys call me a cop hater too, please remember I still do work as a police officer on the side here in WNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Are you really that dense? (Why am I even asking) Most of the jobs lost on Wall Street have not been by the highflyers, but by the support staff, secretaries and back office people. Way to only consider the unfortunate ones who command the kind-hearted press attention by lazy journalists. Yes. Sorry... I want to see the highflyers jump out of their high-risers... Have them lose their jobs and put in new highflyers... Somebody will step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Again... I posted it several times... Can't we all learn from the parable of the vineyard workers. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Again... I posted it several times... Can't we all learn from the parable of the vineyard workers. ?? From the parable..."Isn’t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own?" Answer: Of course (until you run out of money). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 From the parable..."Isn’t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own?" Answer: Of course (until you run out of money). The gov't doesn't seem to be short 15 million. Heck, skim it off the 700 billion. I am not sure what to say... But I am more apt to say what the heck and give the 15 million a whirl and see what happens... Heck, it can't be any more wasteful then firing bullets in Iraq... And if things don't work, you can all tell me: "I told you so." "Plese sir, may I have another... A crumb please." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 The gov't doesn't seem to be short 15 million. Heck, skim it off the 700 billion. I am not sure what to say... But I am more apt to say what the heck and give the 15 million a whirl and see what happens... Heck, it can't be any more wasteful then firing bullets in Iraq... And if things don't work, you can all tell me: "I told you so." "Plese sir, may I have another... A crumb please." The problem with the 15 billion is that it removes the incentive to change NOW. The longer GM and Chrysler dick around with changing (like cutting 50% of their dealerships), the less likely they will get a buying customer. Who wants to buy a car from a company that's going out of business? By doling out money in a small amount and making it harder to get, they will rush to change. Of course, a nice solution is a fast bankruptcy but that could end it all for the bankrupt company. No one will buy a car from a bankrupt company unless it shows signs that it can turn around and I don't think any American has faith in GM or Chrysler at this point...which is EXACTLY why we shouldn't give them money. I am against any long-term bailout. Giving them more than will get them through about February would be a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I want to see them in soup lines, then I will buy you argument. Show me the pain and I will feel sorry and help out. And they let you have a vote...at least there is an explanation for the sorry state this country is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 And they let you have a vote...at least there is an explanation for the sorry state this country is in. Hey... You guys can begrudge... Why can't I? I am just trying to be like everybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 My post compared LI teachers and NYC cops. Master's degree? That is nice, but they don't stop bullets. Teachers should be working the summers to sharpen their skills. Or, do you think that 4 mos. & per year paid vacation is fair? Bill I think you are a bit misguided here, http://www.suffolkcountyny.gov/police/new/recruitment.htm http://www.police.nassaucountyny.gov/recruitment.htm These are the advertised rates on long island for police officers, on both pages they state salaries do not include overtime and other fringe benefits. Both average in the 90k range after 5 years not bad for a job you don't need much more education than 60 hours of undergrad which is cheap. Now lets look at the teachers who have to have at least a bachelors to start and a masters degree by their 5th year on the job: Their average salaries according to the school district are between 66-75k per year with an average tenure of 10-12 years in Nassau and Suffolk counties http://www.longislandschools.com/ I don't know, maybe I'm reading the numbers wrong but it doesn't look like the police are getting a lot less money... Oh before you guys call me a cop hater too, please remember I still do work as a police officer on the side here in WNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 My post compared LI teachers and NYC cops. Master's degree? That is nice, but they don't stop bullets. Teachers should be working the summers to sharpen their skills. Or, do you think that 4 mos. & per year paid vacation is fair? No offense, but the "vacation" you speak of is built in to their salary structure. I assure you that if they worked the traditional 12 months of the year they would be compensated for that additional time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Bill I think you are a bit misguided here, http://www.suffolkcountyny.gov/police/new/recruitment.htm http://www.police.nassaucountyny.gov/recruitment.htm These are the advertised rates on long island for police officers, on both pages they state salaries do not include overtime and other fringe benefits. Both average in the 90k range after 5 years not bad for a job you don't need much more education than 60 hours of undergrad which is cheap. Now lets look at the teachers who have to have at least a bachelors to start and a masters degree by their 5th year on the job: Their average salaries according to the school district are between 66-75k per year with an average tenure of 10-12 years in Nassau and Suffolk counties http://www.longislandschools.com/ I don't know, maybe I'm reading the numbers wrong but it doesn't look like the police are getting a lot less money... Oh before you guys call me a cop hater too, please remember I still do work as a police officer on the side here in WNY I wish i made $90,000 a year in Law Enforcement. Then again, we aren't unionized and don't have to deal with the problems caused by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kegtapr Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I wish i made $90,000 a year in Law Enforcement. Then again, we aren't unionized and don't have to deal with the problems caused by them. Like having to turn in all the drogas or not beating minorities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 The UAW has already offered and ratified changes in their contract that will reduce pension plans, health care (retiree health care taken on by the UAW) and hourly wages (effective 2010). So for people to say greedy is ridiculous. They have done a ton to help the companies out. Hell just restructuring retiree health care saves billions. they dont have til 2010 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 The problem with the 15 billion is that it removes the incentive to change NOW. The longer GM and Chrysler dick around with changing (like cutting 50% of their dealerships), the less likely they will get a buying customer. Who wants to buy a car from a company that's going out of business? By doling out money in a small amount and making it harder to get, they will rush to change. Of course, a nice solution is a fast bankruptcy but that could end it all for the bankrupt company. No one will buy a car from a bankrupt company unless it shows signs that it can turn around and I don't think any American has faith in GM or Chrysler at this point...which is EXACTLY why we shouldn't give them money. I am against any long-term bailout. Giving them more than will get them through about February would be a crime. people will be MORE likely to buy from a bankrupt car co because then they know the co can be viable in the future due to contract restructuring etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 So as I understand, the difference between UAW workers wage scale ($71/hr) and the non-union foreign workers here in the US ($49) is basically in benefits. Their actual "pay" is comparable. So if the insistence is the UAW drop the bennies, how about if our millions of civil servants do the same thing to level the playing field. God knows we could all use the tax relief. Or use that savings to bail-out even more businesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEDFREDJACKSONNOW Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Still here? Still failing to understand the difference between bankruptcy and liquidation? And of course, still refusing to answer the question ACor, me and others have been asking: Why do UAW workers deserve to earn $5 more per hour than non-UAW workers? What skills or qualifications do they have to justify the premium for their services? Have time for some research? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#28184396 The numbers given are bullc#$p. There are other factors involved in the misleading "wage discrepancy": http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business...onhardt.html?em http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/12/04/detr..._1205union.html The inquity between the banker's bailout and the auto loan is enraging: http://washingtonindependent.com/19884/fra...come-inequality http://washingtonindependent.com/21380/aut...ase-for-bailout No one here has implicated the policies of the current administration as enabling bad business practices of the domestic auto companies. There have been huge tax credits for buying large SUVs for business purposes promoted by Bush's economic team. Since this administration laughed at the idea of improving fuel standards (which the Big 3 foolishly advocated against any increases in the CAFE standards). Why build economical cars here (even though they have been successful in Europe) when I can tell my workers to buy trucks with huge profit margins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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