Bill from NYC Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 posters being disgruntled? It seems so to me, but my picture of past seasons is admittedly cloudy. I guess that the 5-1 start raised expectations more this season. After the nice win against San Diego, I was even convinced that this team would reach the playoffs. Certainly this raised the level of anger. Also, in other seasons there was even more controversy about quarterbacks. Flutie/RJ, and JP being handed the job for no valid reason were ongoing issues. This too is different now. Except for a handful of diehards, the consensus seems to be that Edwards might be good, and JP is virtually a hopeless case. Even the few who cling to the possibility that he doesn't suck know that he is gone in 3 weeks. This time around the carousel of losing, our needs are clear to virually all. We need a better OL (especially at OC), out DEs suck and so do our DTs (other than Stroud). It is also clear that sadly, Ralph is to blame. When he hired Levy and Jauron, he gave us 2 football men who nobody else was stupid enough to want, not even the Lions. The mess that is the 08 Buffalo Bills was built by these 2 (although some of our early round defensive backs look OK) I am starting to think for the first time I can remember that if Ralph doesn't get rid of Jauron (thankfully Levy is already gone), he will lose a large portion of a great fanbase. This worries me. I cannot stand the thought of boycotts, etc. It's too bad, because Marty, 1 good draft and a key free agent would probably be enough to right the ship. If he keeps Jauron, he might lose more than just football games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I would tend to agree, Bill. But not for the reasons that the Bills created such high expectations, especially after the 5-1 start and the rebound victory over the Chargers. We've had other seasons of high or higher expectations that weren't met with the level of anger seen this season. We've had worst coaches than Jauron, worse players, especially on the OL. For my money it's a simple question of the level of maturity around here. Those that have been battle tested and know the game a bit more show a little more in terms of insight and patience than some of the young turks who play Madden and think they know the game. The older one gets the less knee-jerk the reactions. Hell, if this BB were around during the late 60s, most of the 70s, the Kay Stephenson/Hank Bullough (sp?) eras, I'm sure I'd be just as apoplectic as the most negative posters here. GO BILLS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 People these days have a shorter fuse given all the concern about the economy and whether your job will be the next to go. We look to sports as a temporary distraction to give us some cheer, and then when the Bills tank and the Sabres slide it just increases the sense of frustration, especially for those who make a financial investment in watching the teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Bill, You raise an excellent question. I do think that the higher expectations from the fast start plus the recent drain-circling of the economy have added to the disgruntlement, but I also believe there is a longer-term process at work on TSW and message boards in general, based on a combination of two factors: 1. Football is a great sport, but its very nature brings out the inner aggressive !@#$ that lurks within people, because they want to sound as tough as the players. Football writers, commentators, and fans all tend to be more hard-edged than fans in other US sports (we can discuss the relative merits of other, non-US sports another time). So there is an undercurrent in any football conversation that encourages people to use more extreme and aggressive language. When things go badly for a team, it gets even worse because the veneer of civilization is worn even thinner. 2. The Internet makes it even easier to go extreme in language because of the distance between people. In hard times, people want someplace to go where they can release all the frustration that comes from feeling powerless in the face of societal forces they cannot control or understand, without running the risk of getting either fired, divorced, or punched in the grill. I would also add that the increasing participation of younger folks, whose sole experiences with opinion discourse comes from partisan blogs, message boards, and the like, also adds to the problem, but that would make me sound like an even older fart than I am. I hope you will forgive this schematic attempt at sociology. Go Bills! RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I think it boils down to: "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" we're on what? the third or fourth time now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullpen Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Although I lurk, more than post, I would say this is the most "fan-on-fan" violence I've seen on here in a long time. Like RJ said, part of it is due to internet annonymity, but we've also got more "johnny-come-lately" posters who come in, drop their two-cents, insult a few people and leave for a week or more. I think the place has dumbed down a bit, but I also think more posters have an "edge" to them that defies explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It's basically like reading daily temper-tantrums on the wall. One thing is clear though, firing head coaches every 2 to 3 years is the recipe for not having a playoff team for another decade. Another thing is clear, if not for a couple of missed, field goals that should have been made, we are 8-6 and not having these conversations. - I've been on the wall since '01 or '02 under different names and passwords long lost to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Yeah, there was less gruntling in previous years. Probably no one easy answer. Team has not sniffed post season in too many years Fast start led people to believe that this was the year Same old same old mistakes being made Same areas of weakness that don't seem to be addressed year after year Lots of pent up frustration!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It's basically like reading daily temper-tantrums on the wall. One thing is clear though, firing head coaches every 2 to 3 years is the recipe for not having a playoff team for another decade. Another thing is clear, if not for a couple of missed, field goals that should have been made, we are 8-6 and not having these conversations. Both excellent points. The margin of success is so narrow, and the range of emotional mood swings is so wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 People these days have a shorter fuse given all the concern about the economy and whether your job will be the next to go. We look to sports as a temporary distraction to give us some cheer, and then when the Bills tank and the Sabres slide it just increases the sense of frustration, especially for those who make a financial investment in watching the teams. I think this is 100% correct. It's not just TSW. Everyone's on edge these days and having to root for one of the sorriest organizations in pro sports just stirs the pot a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 posters being disgruntled? It seems so to me, but my picture of past seasons is admittedly cloudy. I guess that the 5-1 start raised expectations more this season. After the nice win against San Diego, I was even convinced that this team would reach the playoffs. Certainly this raised the level of anger. Personally Bill, I think the anger comes from frustration from the fans this year. After starting 5-1, the options seemed endless for what could be a team. Regardless or not of making the playoffs, most people felt if the Bills finished over .500 with a young team with a promising young QB, then the future FINALLY looked bright for Bills fans. What happened was a monumental collapse of the kind experienced by the Detroit Lions, with our promising QB flaming out and our optimism being crushed week-to-week with each horrendous, lifeless performance of the team. Suddenly we're getting smacked in the face AGAIN with a team that's not good enough to compete, with a coach not good enough to get them to compete and we're all wondering how much more we can take. You hang over us the ever-looming cloud of the team moving, and losing a game this year to Toronto, and the fans are a lot more testy than usual. I truly think this in one of the most painful years in franchise history because of the hope we all had going in, our hope being rewarded early with a great start and then having the carpet pulled out from us. Those 2-14 years were bad, but we knew they'd be bad. We actually hoped for the playoffs this year, the end of a 9 year drought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 This thead makes me want to punch somebody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I think this is the worst general attitude I remember on the board, though there have been plenty of displays of widespread hysteria in the past. Yes, the fast start and subsequent collapse have something to do with it. I don't know the age of most of the angriest posters, but maybe there's something to the idea that the older you are, the less likely you are to think you have it all figured out. But it does make it hard to read here. I don't find much calm reasoning. I check in every day, but don't post too often, because the general tone strikes me as being hopelessly negative and lashing out at everything and everyone. It's like ill-tempered eight-year-old boys who were promised a birthday present they really wanted and they really worked hard for, and then didn't get. I expect most of them to pack up their slingshots and run away from home any day now. Some of them might set fire to the garage before they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I agree with those who point the the fast start - we were flying high and when we fell we fell from a distance and it seems to hit harder. I'd also add a few more factors: 1. The injury to Tom Brady in week 1 had many people believing that the division was up for grabs - no longer a forgone conclusion that the Pats would win it and to see the playoffs you'd need a wildcard. The Pats were tantalizingly vulnerable. 2. After the 2007 season and all the injuries, we were finally healthy - half our starters were not on IR - now we could realy show how good a team were were! 3. Trent and other young players who had shown flashes had full offseason and training camp to get better 4. We though we filled some key holes - Stroud at DT and a tall #2 WR in Hardy - we were going to stop the run and have a red zone threat - a guy you could lob the ball up to in the corner and he'd go get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 If the Bills just did the standard slow start, mid-season surge, then late season collapse then I think we would all be handling this far better. It would be the same old problems. Sure we would be sick of it and probably calling for Jauron's head but it wouldn't be as bad. Instead we had a great start at 4-0, then 5-1. Sure we were waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it was hard to envision that the Bills would not at least get a wild card. Then they just completely choked and collapse, losing in just about every way imaginable. And the Bills fall somewhat corresponds with the worsening economy. It is hard not to be pessimistic and pissed. I thought the Dallas game last year was a low point. But this feels far worse. I would almost say like we are experiencing the Dallas game as a season. Amazing early performance, struggles along the way, but it seemed almost impossible to blow it, then they blow it in shocking fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Bill, I think you are dead wrong on Marv Levy. I think that Marv was a very necessary salve to the Donahoe era, and as bad as things are right now, I think that they would have been much much worse (i.e. Detroit or Oakland bad) without his influence. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullpen Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 This thead makes me want to punch somebody. SEE!?!?! Fan on fan violence!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 People these days have a shorter fuse given all the concern about the economy and whether your job will be the next to go. We look to sports as a temporary distraction to give us some cheer, and then when the Bills tank and the Sabres slide it just increases the sense of frustration, especially for those who make a financial investment in watching the teams. In other words: it's Bush's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Ralph not only needs to fire Jauron, he needs to hire a proven winner. To me the last few years have been like the post - Saban era (the second Saban era). Ralph was losing the fan base so he was forced to go out and hire Chuck Knox. We should settle for nothing less than Cowher, Jimmy Johnson, or at the very least Schottenheimer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Could it be that a lot of posters here have little recollection of the Bills glory years and bought into this past off-season's sales pitch completely and utterly? They were promised the playoffs by insiders. They loved the addition of Stroud and Hardy. They heard Adam Schein gush effusively about the Bills being a team on the rise every morning all summer long. They saw the Bills team rocket out of the gates to a 5-1 record, a record that all but "guaranteed" a playoff appearance. Then the wheels fell off. At this point, the Bills need a miracle to reach the playoffs. The people that bought into the hype were, unfortunately, very wrong. Their expectations were not met. Their declarations fell short. Their predictions simply incorrect. The team is regressing and failing before their eyes. Add to that the hopelessness of seeing the Bills treading water, a "few" players short, being outcoached, and generally being the AFC's Detroit Lions with almost the entire NFL passing them by at one point or another going on for 9 years. They have made capital (in many cases) and emotional investments and are disillusioned, disgruntled, and angry. And, they vent here because this is the #1 Bills forum on the Net. Some people are more emotional than others. It doesn't make them less mature or stupid. (At least, it's not my place to be their judge.) Face value: they're angry and they're venting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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