Behind Closed Doors

[Glass To The Arson]

My buddy from work took a trip to Minneapolis for a Twins game and he mentioned to me that on the local radio - Goodell was not impressed with Toronto and said he'd rather put a team in England. I don't believe he meant that - maybe out of frustration...

 

I wonder if he really said that because word of mouth can be distorted.

 

None the less - Goodell was not impressed with the giving away of 17,000 free tickets

 

What do you think?

[DrDawkinstein]

people need to realize this entire thing is less about moving a team there as it is expanding the fan base there.

 

the Bills are not moving to toronto. but if we could get some people interested in coming down to Buffalo for the games, then we're golden.

[ACor58]

people need to realize this entire thing is less about moving a team there as it is expanding the fan base there.

 

the Bills are not moving to toronto. but if we could get some people interested in coming down to Buffalo for the games, then we're golden.

 

Agreed. They can barley support a MLB and an NBA franchise. The truth is that many, if not most of them don't give two sh!ts about american sports. They care about hockey. (and Curling )

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

I don't want to see the Bills move, but strictly regarding Toronto. It's preseason. No one expects pre season to be capacity filled, with excited fans. It has way more merit, if the regular season games are like that.

[BobbyC81]

I don't want to see the Bills move, but strictly regarding Toronto. It's preseason. No one expects pre season to be capacity filled, with excited fans. It has way more merit, if the regular season games are like that.

 

 

The Miami game being played in Toronto still pisses me off. Having a home game at RWS vs Miami in December has usually just about guaranteed a win. Now it's going to be in a dome??

[Tsaikotic]

The Miami game being played in Toronto still pisses me off. Having a home game at RWS vs Miami in December has usually just about guaranteed a win. Now it's going to be in a dome??

 

Buffalo should tell Toronto that the roof has to be open for the game..snow or no snow...but then again..we have a Cali QB and a Cali RB..maybe the roof closed will help us more than hurt Miami

[Max997]

My buddy from work took a trip to Minneapolis for a Twins game and he mentioned to me that on the local radio - Goodell was not impressed with Toronto and said he'd rather put a team in England. I don't believe he meant that - maybe out of frustration...

 

I wonder if he really said that because word of mouth can be distorted.

 

None the less - Goodell was not impressed with the giving away of 17,000 free tickets

 

What do you think?

 

There is no way Goodell said anything close to that

[Buffalo_soul-dier]

Most of our team has little experience in the snow....and we saw last year what theyd do. These arent the kelly and thomas' and reeds that thrived in the snow...they get cold as much as the dolphins would, its only us fans who like it in the snow

[Dan]

Most of our team has little experience in the snow....and we saw last year what theyd do. These arent the kelly and thomas' and reeds that thrived in the snow...they get cold as much as the dolphins would, its only us fans who like it in the snow

Agreed. Until I see different, I would say that cold, wind and snow are as big a disadvantage to our team as it is to visiting teams.

[gobillsinytown]

In my opinion, the reason the team wants to expand its fan base to Toronto is not for the regular seats. A sellout of the regular seats is icing on the cake. The real reason is to sell the luxury and corporate boxes. That's where the real money is, and that's where Toronto has a huge source of income.

Since it's preseason, I don't think they expected a sellout. But I wonder what the attendance was in the luxury suites?

I think the regular season game will be a sellout, and more importantly, the luxury and corporate boxes will be full.

Is that enough to move the team to Toronto? I don't think so. Why do that, when they can do both cities?

[The_Philster]

In my opinion, the reason the team wants to expand its fan base to Toronto is not for the regular seats. A sellout of the regular seats is icing on the cake. The real reason is to sell the luxury and corporate boxes. That's where the real money is, and that's where Toronto has a huge source of income.

I'm of the same opinion...cause that's the reason the Bills gave for this Toronto series

 

the Bills are not moving to toronto. but if we could get some people interested in coming down to Buffalo for the games, then we're golden.

A big part of the Bills gameday experiemce is tailgating. After seeing the pathetic joke that passes for tailgating in Toronto, I think interest in coming down to Orchard Park is going to keep rising

[Tsaikotic]

A big part of the Bills gameday experiemce is tailgating. After seeing the pathetic joke that passes for tailgating in Toronto, I think interest in coming down to Orchard Park is going to keep rising

 

did you see where the Bears told its tailgaters that they can no longer be in the parking lot durring game time?....thats just not right

[BillsVet]

people need to realize this entire thing is less about moving a team there as it is expanding the fan base there.

 

the Bills are not moving to toronto. but if we could get some people interested in coming down to Buffalo for the games, then we're golden.

 

Based on what? Until someone can come out and say authoritatively that they're not moving, rumors will continue that this "loaning" of the Bills is an attempt to gauge market interest in a NFL franchise for Toronto. At this point, nothing is out of the question, including a move to Toronto or any place that an investor/owner believes a NFL franchise can operate with big revenue potential. The one man who can put the rumors to bed is adamant that the team will be sold after his passing.

 

It's a feel-good thing to believe what the team says and think it's only about expanding a fan base. When one of the top markets in North America is hours away from where your team plays, anything is possible.

 

I'll wait until a regular season game to figure out just how this Toronto arrangement plays out. If fan support is poor, I won't celebrate, nor will I be upset.

 

For the time being, I'll watch the games and hope they play well. It's just ridiculous to think there isn't more going on behind the scenes than an attempt at regionalization.

[Flbillsfan#1]

did you see where the Bears told its tailgaters that they can no longer be in the parking lot durring game time?....thats just not right

That only affects fans who don't have a ticket to the game.

[Tsaikotic]

That only affects fans who don't have a ticket to the game.

 

so your saying fans with no tickets shouldn't be able to have fun and support there team in the parking lots?...I think this was a very bad move on the Bears part...Tailgateing is a huge part of the game-day experience...I know all of you would be pi$$d if Ralph came out and threw everyone that didn't buy a ticket out of the parking lot

[Steely Dan]

Agreed. They can barley support a MLB and an NBA franchise. The truth is that many, if not most of them don't give two sh!ts about american sports. They care about hockey. (and Curling )

 

Also, Toronto would have to build a new stadium to NFL standards and there are guys in the Parliament that oppose any NFL team relocating there.

 

 

I don't want to see the Bills move, but strictly regarding Toronto. It's preseason. No one expects pre season to be capacity filled, with excited fans. It has way more merit, if the regular season games are like that.

 

Agreed. It would be like trying to gauge fan interest in Buffalo by using pre-season attendance.

[Fan in San Diego]

There is no way Goodell said anything close to that

 

I was thinking the same thing. It would be a major break of public relations.

[reddogblitz]

I was surprised by the way the Bills played once Trent left the game in the middle of the 2nd quarter. We only threw 2 passes in the second half. Watching our offense was total snooze time. I know it was pre season etc., but if you're trying to build a fan base by playing 2 year ago's SB champ, I'd think you'd show the crowd a little more excitement. I'm still shaking my head on this one. Dick Jauron is not a marketeer, obviously!

[UConn James]

Agreed. It would be like trying to gauge fan interest in Buffalo by using pre-season attendance.

 

If anything, it should tell Goodell et al. that they need to do something about the preseason situation, as was rumored with retraction of one game and expanding to a 17-game season. Big surprise that people don't give a flying sh-- about games that mean nothing in the standings!? Lots of popular teams have attendance trouble for what is tantamount to glorified practice sessions; only the hardcore fans care about it, and even then.... I think butts (PAYING butts, that is) will be in the seats in Toronto in Dec. when it matters. People should reserve any final judgment at least until then, and probably not until the game up there next year.

 

In addition to the retraction of a game, it might be prudent to make the preseason results count for something. What, I don't know. Some perk that's not too big, not too small. But the MLB All-Star game certainly got more interesting when the winning league got home-field advantage during the WS --- all of a sudden, people had a bit of a stake.

 

Finally, for anyone happy about the low attendance, it isn't good for the team. This Toronto partnership thing has to be successful for the future of this franchise in the new era of Snyder & Jones. W/o it, we sink and the team will move; with it, the NFL in this region will be possible. Again, I fully expect a large crowd in Dec., a good game vs. the Fish, and I hope it translates to some corporate support from Toronto at RWS. (Should be easier now with the strong Canadian dollar).

[krazykat]

My buddy from work took a trip to Minneapolis for a Twins game and he mentioned to me that on the local radio - Goodell was not impressed with Toronto and said he'd rather put a team in England. I don't believe he meant that - maybe out of frustration...

 

I wonder if he really said that because word of mouth can be distorted.

 

None the less - Goodell was not impressed with the giving away of 17,000 free tickets

 

What do you think?

I think that if teams didn't force fans to buy preseason tickets along with their season tickets then just about every team would have 17,000 tickets to get rid of prior to every preseason game with the exception of teams in the largest cities.

 

I think and hope we can agree that charging $350 to a preseason game isn't going to sell tickets. If the Bills charged half of that and didn't force fans to buy them they'd have 70,000 extra tickets for every preseason game.

 

I also think you should find the exact broadcast of that supposed statement. Sounds very unprofessional for Goodell to go on the air and say something like that. And what was Goodell doing in Minnesota? Not saying he wasn't there, but this reeks of fish more than the best fish story.

[krazykat]

If anything, it should tell Goodell et al. that they need to do something about the preseason situation, as was rumored with retraction of one game and expanding to a 17-game season. Big surprise that people don't give a flying sh-- about games that mean nothing in the standings!? Lots of popular teams have attendance trouble for what is tantamount to glorified practice sessions; only the hardcore fans care about it, and even then.... I think butts (PAYING butts, that is) will be in the seats in Toronto in Dec. when it matters. People should reserve any final judgment at least until then, and probably not until the game up there next year.

 

In addition to the retraction of a game, it might be prudent to make the preseason results count for something. What, I don't know. Some perk that's not too big, not too small. But the MLB All-Star game certainly got more interesting when the winning league got home-field advantage during the WS --- all of a sudden, people had a bit of a stake.

 

Finally, for anyone happy about the low attendance, it isn't good for the team. This Toronto partnership thing has to be successful for the future of this franchise in the new era of Snyder & Jones. W/o it, we sink and the team will move; with it, the NFL in this region will be possible. Again, I fully expect a large crowd in Dec., a good game vs. the Fish, and I hope it translates to some corporate support from Toronto at RWS. (Should be easier now with the strong Canadian dollar).

Some good points.

 

Also keep ion mind that they disallow tailgating in Toronto, or maybe Canada altogether. Who in their right mind is going to lay out $350 plus parking plus concessions/dinner, etc. for a preseason game in which a bunch of guys that are going to be washing pots and pans in four weeks play a half of football, especially when they can't tailgate.

[UConn James]

I also think you should find the exact broadcast of that supposed statement. Sounds very unprofessional for Goodell to go on the air and say something like that. And what was Goodell doing in Minnesota? Not saying he wasn't there, but this reeks of fish more than the best fish story.

 

I don't doubt that Goodell might have said he was disappointed by it. Hell, I'm disappointed by it. For sure, 54,000 would have been better than 17,000. But then, Goodell and even Ralph and Rogers probably projected this --- they didn't get where they are by being stupid.

 

The two preseason games were never the main driver in the 8-game deal. It's Toronto's reception to the regular season games that really count. Disappointing, yes. But no way can anyone fairly compare this to last year's London game, and thatt's probably not what Goodell meant, if he did make a comment.

[Stussy109]

The Miami game being played in Toronto still pisses me off. Having a home game at RWS vs Miami in December has usually just about guaranteed a win. Now it's going to be in a dome??

 

 

With the way Edwards has played previously in sh------- weather games like the browns, and the giants game, I'm thrilled we're playing in a dome.

[krazykat]

I don't doubt that Goodell might have said he was disappointed by it. Hell, I'm disappointed by it. For sure, 54,000 would have been better than 17,000. But then, Goodell and even Ralph and Rogers probably projected this --- they didn't get where they are by being stupid.

 

The two preseason games were never the main driver in the 8-game deal. It's Toronto's reception to the regular season games that really count. Disappointing, yes. But no way can anyone fairly compare this to last year's London game, and thatt's probably not what Goodell meant, if he did make a comment.

Ralph got where he is by being lucky. All he did was sink $25K into a team fortysome years ago. If he were that bright he would have found a way to prevent Polian from being fired. Oops, that's right, he fired him. ; ) Same for AJ Smith both of whom have excelled since leaving. He has done very little for the league since and has recently made a name for himself as a cranky old whiner. He was flat out dumb to insist on keeping the Miami rivalry above everything else when they did the divisional realignment. He has never hired a great GM for this team besides Polian who was a rush decision due to a death of then Terry Bledsoe or whatever his name was. When he meddles in his team's affairs we as fans usually come out on the short end of the stick just like Snyder in Washington and Davis in Oakland.

 

But my point was that if Toronto had a season ticket base like all other teams, besides ours, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. If the Jets, Redskins, Giants, or Pats charged $350 per ticket and made every ticket available to a preseason game of theirs, I doubt that they would have more than ten or twenty thousand people attend either. As it is, most people with preseason tickets try to unload them or they go unused. Will the Ralph be full for the Detroit preseason game, no.

 

So why do we hold a vastly different standard for a preseason game in Toronto?

 

Now if the Miami game fails to sell and we're playing well, then we can start talking. But that will sell out. Actually, aren't they just a few thousand tickets short of selling out the regular season home games there for the next three seasons. I think so. Once the season gets going the rest will sell too.

 

Either way, the cheap (around $200) tickets sold out and it was just the expensive ones that didn't. And if they lowered the prices to what we pay in Buffalo they would have sold out instantly.

 

You have to compare apples to apples here.

[SouthernMan]

so your saying fans with no tickets shouldn't be able to have fun and support there team in the parking lots?...I think this was a very bad move on the Bears part...Tailgateing is a huge part of the game-day experience...I know all of you would be pi$$d if Ralph came out and threw everyone that didn't buy a ticket out of the parking lot

 

 

I'd bet the move was made to protect the personal property of those who paid $25 to lease a parking space for the afternoon while they attend the game. First, they don't want to not have enough parking for those going into the stadium, and secondly, they want to keep loiterers, burglars, gasoline thieves, car theives, and other n'er-do-wells away from the property of the game patrons. What sort of element is just hangin around parking lots?

 

A bunch of no goods who don't have their own digs or enough scratch to go to a local establishment full of rowdy fans?

 

It'd bet it's the same bunch of losers who don't have a pot to piss in and invade our spaces like local parks and so forth.

 

Good for Chicago. I wish they'd have better protection for my vehicle and property at the Orchard Park lots.

Between Electronics, GPS units, and other valuables, it's not unlikely that many of these cars have hundreds of dollars worth of property inside. Reducing risk of criminal activity is a big plus as far as I'm concerned. It's families attending games who will ultimately keep the team in Buffalo - not a bunch of bums.

[billsfanone]

Canadians are not good sports fans. Period.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Ralph got where he is by being lucky. All he did was sink $25K into a team fortysome years ago. If he were that bright he would have found a way to prevent Polian from being fired. Oops, that's right, he fired him. ; ) Same for AJ Smith both of whom have excelled since leaving. He has done very little for the league since and has recently made a name for himself as a cranky old whiner. He was flat out dumb to insist on keeping the Miami rivalry above everything else when they did the divisional realignment. He has never hired a great GM for this team besides Polian who was a rush decision due to a death of then Terry Bledsoe or whatever his name was. When he meddles in his team's affairs we as fans usually come out on the short end of the stick just like Snyder in Washington and Davis in Oakland.

 

But my point was that if Toronto had a season ticket base like all other teams, besides ours, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. If the Jets, Redskins, Giants, or Pats charged $350 per ticket and made every ticket available to a preseason game of theirs, I doubt that they would have more than ten or twenty thousand people attend either. As it is, most people with preseason tickets try to unload them or they go unused. Will the Ralph be full for the Detroit preseason game, no.

 

So why do we hold a vastly different standard for a preseason game in Toronto?

 

Now if the Miami game fails to sell and we're playing well, then we can start talking. But that will sell out. Actually, aren't they just a few thousand tickets short of selling out the regular season home games there for the next three seasons. I think so. Once the season gets going the rest will sell too.

 

Either way, the cheap (around $200) tickets sold out and it was just the expensive ones that didn't. And if they lowered the prices to what we pay in Buffalo they would have sold out instantly.

 

You have to compare apples to apples here.

Comparing apples to oranges, the Jets, Redskins, Giants & Pats have been around a LONG time. A preseason game in those cities doesn't mean much. Toronto however hasn't had an NFL game in that city in YEARS, so preseason or no it is more of an event than those other cities. Aside from that Rodgers wanted to show the NFL how well Toronto would support the NFL, and led us all to believe the game would be sold out.

[PromoTheRobot]

Rogers had better come up with a creative solution to the mess they created. They flat out charged too much for tickets, even for money-to-burn Torontonians. Rogers has to figure out how to reduce prices without losing face. Either quietly rebate people who bought tickets and release a new price structure, or bonus people free tickets. I'm not convinced the Miami game sells out just because its regular season.

 

PTR

[MDH]

so your saying fans with no tickets shouldn't be able to have fun and support there team in the parking lots?...I think this was a very bad move on the Bears part...Tailgateing is a huge part of the game-day experience...I know all of you would be pi$$d if Ralph came out and threw everyone that didn't buy a ticket out of the parking lot

 

I'm sure it has to do with policing the unruly fans in the parking lot. Teams have enough trouble with the drunks in the stands, I'm sure they don't want to have to deal with the drunks in the parking lots who don't even have a ticket.

 

If people acted like adults instead of idiots while drinking I’m guessing this move wouldn’t be necessary by the Bears. I wouldn’t be surprised if other teams headed in this direction soon.

[RayFinkle]

There is no way Goodell said anything close to that

Agreed.

[davefan66]

Buffalo should tell Toronto that the roof has to be open for the game..snow or no snow...but then again..we have a Cali QB and a Cali RB..maybe the roof closed will help us more than hurt Miami

 

According to WGR, the roof was supposed to be open for the 1st half of the game, but it started to rain and the roof was closed. Apparently, the field has no real drainage system, and can't support any water.

[krazykat]

Comparing apples to oranges, the Jets, Redskins, Giants & Pats have been around a LONG time. A preseason game in those cities doesn't mean much. Toronto however hasn't had an NFL game in that city in YEARS, so preseason or no it is more of an event than those other cities. Aside from that Rodgers wanted to show the NFL how well Toronto would support the NFL, and led us all to believe the game would be sold out.

Fine, then judge by regular season games. Even Americans won't pay what they're charging up there for preseason games. You missed my point entirely.

 

I mean what if the prices were $1K per ticket and they then said, "see, no one wants a team in Toronto." Well this just in, but if the prices here were half of that our boat would be half (or less) full each and every week and it would have absolutely nothing to do with a shortage of fans.

 

How long a team has been around and the accompanying waiting list is an even more serious demand builder than available ticktes at three bills plus.

 

I mean if you want to use a preseason game as a gage, feel free. I think it's meaningless and at the prices they're charging, to be over 80% sold out for the regular season games for the next three years, is impressive to me. That's probably the equivalent revenue from over a third of our home schedule in any given year per year.

[krazykat]

Rogers had better come up with a creative solution to the mess they created. They flat out charged too much for tickets, even for money-to-burn Torontonians. Rogers has to figure out how to reduce prices without losing face. Either quietly rebate people who bought tickets and release a new price structure, or bonus people free tickets. I'm not convinced the Miami game sells out just because its regular season.

 

PTR

It's mostly sold out for the regular season. They have like 10K tickets remaining and that is presumably 10K for each game. What's the capacity at Roger's? 46K or something.