PromoTheRobot Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Beli-cheat taping signals since 2000 Walsh’s tapes show that the Patriots recorded the signals of offensive and defensive coaches in regular-season games against the Miami Dolphins, the Buffalo Bills, the Cleveland Browns and the San Diego Chargers and against the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2002 American Football Conference championship game. In that game, the tape has been edited to show Steelers coaches signaling plays, followed by two different camera angles of the actual plays that were called. Based on a win-loss tally from games after the ones on tapes provided by Walsh, the Patriots went 9-6 against the Dolphins after the first taping. They also went 12-1 against the Bills, 3-0 against the Browns, 4-1 against the Steelers and 3-1 against the Chargers. This included three victories and no defeats in the playoffs. Can you remember how the Pats seemed to almost know what plays the Bills ran before they ran them? Turns out they did. Curiously, the infamous Rams walk-thru was not one o the tapes turned over. I guess part of the deal between Walsh and the NFL was he had to eat that tape. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 lets see...proof of the pats* cheating in 2000-2002, and proof of them cheating in 2007. To me, that says they were cheating the entire time, thus nullifying their 3 SB titles. it also calls into question brady's "big game clutch" ability as a QB. I'm sure its much easier to read the defense and make the proper reads when you know exactly where the opposition is lined and where they are going to be covering. dynasty my ass. nothing but a bunch of cheaters. i say strip them of the super bowl titles and ban belicheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Friggin beautiful ... A mockery of the rest of the league it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Didn't we already know that they taped defensive signals?? Without a tape of the walkthrough, nothing else is going to happen. Goodell already punished them for taping defensive signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 GOTCHA!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TavernontheTracks Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 if Billy boy has a scrap of integrity he will apoligize to all football fans, resign and disapear what a disgrace, I really want blood now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 Didn't we already know that they taped defensive signals?? Without a tape of the walkthrough, nothing else is going to happen. Goodell already punished them for taping defensive signals. They will be punished further because these tapes show taping goes back to 2000. They were fined and lost the draft pick for taping in 2007 and 2006 only. Expect another lost draft pick, maybe two, and another fine, but no suspension of Billy Beli-cheat. Just because there's no Rams walk-through doesn't mean it didn't happen, imo. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I hate the Pats as much as the next guy, but I just don't think this is that big of a deal. Teams can videotape other team's signals, just not from the field. So they did it directly from the field. Is that really that much different than just zooming in from the press box? They broke the rules. They should definitely be punished, but to say this is the reason the Bills can never beat them is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 this is a head scratcher. The league already knew they were cheating since 2000, so is this new evidence, or just confirmation of what they already knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Didn't we already know that they taped defensive signals?? Without a tape of the walkthrough, nothing else is going to happen. Goodell already punished them for taping defensive signals. These new tapes showed cheatriots also taped offensive signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Voice Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 These new tapes showed cheatriots also taped offensive signals. Yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 lets see...proof of the pats* cheating in 2000-2002, and proof of them cheating in 2007. To me, that says they were cheating the entire time, thus nullifying their 3 SB titles. it also calls into question brady's "big game clutch" ability as a QB. I'm sure its much easier to read the defense and make the proper reads when you know exactly where the opposition is lined and where they are going to be covering. dynasty my ass. nothing but a bunch of cheaters. i say strip them of the super bowl titles and ban belicheat. no. lets send them all to africa where they will pull the mr mcgregg (simpson's ref) scene from last king of scottland. after that i will go on a million steroids campaign and chest kick them all to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 They will be punished further because these tapes show taping goes back to 2000. They were fined and lost the draft pick for taping in 2007 and 2006 only. Expect another lost draft pick, maybe two, and another fine, but no suspension of Billy Beli-cheat. Just because there's no Rams walk-through doesn't mean it didn't happen, imo. PTR Since these tapings occurred before the Commish's clarifying memo I wonder if he's going to cut them a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I hate the Pats as much as the next guy, but I just don't think this is that big of a deal. Teams can videotape other team's signals, just not from the field. So they did it directly from the field. Is that really that much different than just zooming in from the press box? They broke the rules. They should definitely be punished, but to say this is the reason the Bills can never beat them is stupid. I was under the impression that taping the sidelines was an absolute no-no, no matter where the cameraman was located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I hate the Pats as much as the next guy, but I just don't think this is that big of a deal. Teams can videotape other team's signals, just not from the field. So they did it directly from the field. Is that really that much different than just zooming in from the press box? They broke the rules. They should definitely be punished, but to say this is the reason the Bills can never beat them is stupid. Obviously there is some advantage to taping on the field versus a press box, otherwise the rule wouldn't make a distinction. And I won't claim that this helped them beat the Bills, but it sure nullifies those 3-point last-second SB wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 12-1 against the Bills over how many years and how many different head coaches? Solid work NYT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Can you remember how the Pats seemed to almost know what plays the Bills ran before they ran them? Turns out they did.... PTR Every team in the NFL knew what the Bills were going to run, the fans knew what the Bills were going to run. Besides the Bills signal in their offensive plays via the headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I was under the impression that taping the sidelines was an absolute no-no, no matter where the cameraman was located. I think it's just taping from the field. How are you going to stop someone from taping from a box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Bill Bellichick: Banishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I think it's just taping from the field. How are you going to stop someone from taping from a box? I swore I read that a couple times when the story first broke, so I did a Google search for 'Patriots taping sidelines memo' and that brings up a ton of results. This is the first result, and is from the NYT around the time the original story broke: (LINK) N.F.L. policy prohibits videotaping opposing coaches giving signals. Last year, the N.F.L.’s executive vice president of football operations, Ray Anderson, sent a memo to teams reminding them of the rule. The memo is believed to have been generated in part by suspicions that the Patriots had videotaped coaches at several games last season. It looks like it was against NFL policy to tape the sidelines/coaching signals from anywhere in the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBills12 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Billy bob wants every advantage...maybe he broke the code and unlocked something...I can't imagine any Bills fan saying this is not a big deal...its a competitive advantage that should not exist....Now if the Bills did the same to the Pats then its fair game...but we didn't, we're honest Karma is a b!tch Patty's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Didn't we already know that they taped defensive signals?? Without a tape of the walkthrough, nothing else is going to happen. Goodell already punished them for taping defensive signals. Yes but those were only for signals in the last few games of 2006 and the jets game.... this is alot more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 This would probably be a good time to visit P*triot message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 This would probably be a good time to visit P*triot message boards. Why? They are in denial and see the lack of a walk-thru tape as evidence that the Patriots are innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 even if the walkthrough tape existed, the nfl would never let it see the light of day. whether it be under the table cash to make it go away or something else. it would damage the league too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Every team in the NFL knew what the Bills were going to run, the fans knew what the Bills were going to run. Besides the Bills signal in their offensive plays via the headset. Amen to that. Stupid Killbride, most predictable OC ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 This would probably be a good time to visit P*triot message boards. They think Kraft will be able to sue everybody now, including the Herald and Spector for claiming they taped more than then claimed they did. It is really quite pathedic. Good times!! I think the second post on this page just about sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Why? They are in denial and see the lack of a walk-thru tape as evidence that the Patriots are innocent. Yup ... http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patrio...ead.php?t=82291 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Amen to that. Stupid Killbride, most predictable OC ever. way less predictable than Fairchild. I would call it much stupider though. I guess it was no accident that our first games against the Pats were close and our second invariably a blowout. Regardless of our lousy coaching, blowouts are rare. in some ways its comforting that during this span we weren't really good enough to get jobbed out of something we deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Only problem with all this is that, while reprehensible, Goodell did know the cheating went back to 2000 when he made his punishment decision, so I doubt anything new will come of this unless Walsh has additional new evidence here. If you'll recall, he only admitted this after Walsh spoke in early February. I suspect that what happened is Goodell's statement caught Walsh by surprise and thus here we are. Will be interesting to see if Walsh has anything else next week (or if he's been bought off after all, but we'll never know that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 They think Kraft will be able to sue everybody now, including the Herald and Spector for claiming they taped more than then claimed they did. It is really quite pathedic. Good times!!I think the second post on this page just about sums it up. I loved this one: Give it up, we were caught speeding and charged with vehicular homocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William O Darby Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 My six year old was reading a book about paul revere and the 1776 Patriots and asked me in a whisper if they were cheaters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 My six year old was reading a book about paul revere and the 1776 Patriots and asked me in a whisper if they were cheaters.... LOL! Oh man. Well, that might be america for you. Cheat, claw, and swindle your way to the top. Doesn't matter what you have to do to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 If the shoe were on the other hand we'd be making the same posts but our team has class and honesty. 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I think it's just taping from the field. How are you going to stop someone from taping from a box? this is something I previously posted that explains the "rule" and the "memo".... The NFL press releases indicated that the rule stated "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game" and that all video shooting locations for club coaching purposes "must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead." So the word is that Belicheat interpreted this as you could video tape in the category of for "club coaching purposes" in certain locations during the game and they could video tape in other places as long as it wasn't for use during the game. Then Ray Anderson (the NFL exec VP of Football Ops) sent a memo at the beginning of the 2007 season that, “videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.” This could be interpreted as they can videotape another team's signals but they can't do it from these locations, or anywhere else that is "accessible during the game." Yeah, it makes zero sense that his guy could standing there taping Jet's defensive signals and not be in violation of the rule, but that's their story. My guess is that Goodell gave Belicheat a pass for violations prior to the beginning of last season and spanked him getting caught during the Jets game, which occurred after the memo came out clarifying the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I don't see any way they receive more punishment. If people think Goodell is going to take away more picks because there is video evidence dating back to '02, rest assured he will say that Belichick has already told him the cheating has been going on that long, he just never understood the rule. I would be absolutely shocked if anything else happens. I think Anthony Hargrove has a better chance of being our starting QB in '08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flpunter Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 According to the NYT the tapes turned over by Walsh were edited and had different camera angles. Could this be done in real time? Halftime? After the game? I am pretty confused now about what this whole Spygate was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaBill Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Well you know what they say.,.. its only cheating if you get caught! I think the punishment has been meted out, and we won't see a whole lot more on it as the NFL has switched to the Defensive Radio Helmut neutralizing this type of activity. There is probably more to this story than we'll ever really know.... missing tapes.... smells like watergate to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 If the shoe were on the other hand we'd be making the same posts but our team has class and honesty. 'Nuff said. If the Bills cheated, I'd stop being a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Kraft seems to have enough $ that for the most part almost any fine would seem to be an annoyance which the Pats fan base will simply bull through by whining. My sense is that a just punishment would include simply adding an asterisk in the NFL records for each of the Pats SB wins which will note that the Pats were fined each of these seasons for illegally taping the signals of the other team. Fining Kraft and the Pats is certainly fine by me, but the main thing I want is the dreaded asterisk besides their record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts