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For Those Who Still Have Faith


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I honestly want to know your thoughts. If he gets adequate time behind the line the next 4 weeks and totally stinks up the joint while losing 4 more games, do you still want to keep him in the rest of the season without getting a look at Nall?

 

Would you at least want to see if Nall does any better so the off season is not a complete question mark again? Again, for those that think something will click in JPs head, what would your boiling point be (if any)? This question could just have easily been directed at the coaching staff.

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No, he's got the rest of the season to finally hang himself... if he still doesn't show anything, then trade him if you can or cut him. That's the only way I see to eliminate any question marks... give JP every chance this year. Nall can compete with the new Chosen One next year if JP doesn't cut it.

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I honestly want to know your thoughts. If he gets adequate time behind the line the next 4 weeks and totally stinks up the joint while losing 4 more games, do you still want to keep him in the rest of the season without getting a look at Nall?

 

Would you at least want to see if Nall does any better so the off season is not a complete question mark again? Again, for those that think something will click in JPs head, what would your boiling point be (if any)? This question could just have easily been directed at the coaching staff.

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I am bills fan and want the bills to do well. However, you got to be patient with the QB position. Of course some teams just luck it out and have a QB emerge out of no where. However, most of the teams will have to invest fairly long to find out about their QB. The problem with the bills is that the surrounding cast is so bad, it is very hard to judge the QB or his skills. Considering that the bills will have to give him the entire season and be objective in what he can do in determining if he is going to be the face of this franchise in the future. From all the talk that is coming out of OBD, they are indicating that they are ready to wait and be patient to see that the QB can grow up. If the coaching staff would have felt that Nall was worth trying it out, they might have jumped the gun before the ship sank. But the fact that they chose not to indicates that they are willing to wait for Losman to develop and have faith in him and also think Nall will not be the long term answer for this franchise.

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We need to give losman the keys to the Chevette and see what he can do with it.

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I used to have a 1976 Chevette, such a POS.

 

But as for an answer on the question, I don't think we can really gauge JP as QB until the O line is shored up. If we can fix it in the draft/free agency, I say give him 4-5 games next season and if hestill can't cut it, time to get rid of him.

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I'm a Losman fan, but a Bills fan above that. But I don't think you look at Nall this season. Deciding JP isn't the one before the full season is too soon, and giving Nall snaps when you haven't decided on JP isn't the right thing.

 

Nall needs to try to do something to move up to 2nd on the depth chart in the coach's eyes (the same eyes that see him take snaps in practice every day) before this discussion even makes sense. If after the season the decision is made that JP is not the guy, Nall can compete with whatever free agent signee or draft pick Marv and Dick think are better than JP, and may the best QB emerge.

 

But my take is that all the RJ comparisons are way off base, and JP will be a pretty good to great QB, and by season's end we will decide that we want to entrust him with the 2007 season and make some kick ass acquisitions at other positions. He has shown all of the pieces individually and just needs to put them together. I think that experience and a good O-Line will make that easier.

 

I look forward to a good game this weekend, progress through the rest of the season, and hopefully a QB good enough to at least stop focusing on who our next QB should be :lol:.

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Nall is not a starter in this league, if he were good enough to start the coaches wouldn't have him third on the depth chart.

 

Losman should get the rest of this season, if he doesn't show any signs of improvement then he'll be cut in the offseason and the Bills will look elsewhere for a signal caller (please not the draft unless it's Troy Smith).

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I'm going to renew my JP Losman Bandwagon card for a couple more weeks if Jauron is saying that he's going to turn him loose. I know JP can make things happen with his legs, particularly when he rolls out and throws on the run. If he's goign to be allowed to play his natural game, then I want to give him a couple more games before I really start thinking he's not gonna make it.

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I have very little faith left in JP. However I have less faith in Nall and even less in Holcomb

 

The season is pretty much in the crapper already. Give him a shot and see if he proves us JP haters wrong in the next 7 games. If he does I'll eat my crow. If he doesn't then I'd hate to say I told you so, and I will tell you so :lol:

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I honestly want to know your thoughts. If he gets adequate time behind the line the next 4 weeks and totally stinks up the joint while losing 4 more games, do you still want to keep him in the rest of the season without getting a look at Nall?

 

Would you at least want to see if Nall does any better so the off season is not a complete question mark again? Again, for those that think something will click in JPs head, what would your boiling point be (if any)? This question could just have easily been directed at the coaching staff.

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I wonder what daquixers_is_back will say about this. :doh:

 

maybe something like:

You should be banned from talking about JP. When your simply talking Bills football you have something intelligent to say once in a while. Yet once you start talking about Losman, every bit of common sense goes out the window.

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;):lol::lol::( Hey, you do it to me.

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I think its more about giving this line a chance to play including Preston. This offense lacks NFL caliber skill players; thats not a crutch for Losman, he's struggling too, but I consider him an NFL caliber talent unlike some of our starters on offense. Many of whom play on offensive line or at WR/TE

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Goodness gracious. This topic sure has been beaten to death. So what if folks have faith in JP or don't? The fact is, JP is the Bills QB this season, period, end of story. This regime knows they've drawn a 'mulligan' this season, simply because they've inherited a bad team and are charged with fixing it. They are going to use this year to allow JP to make it or break it. And, he ain't the only one. They know they've got to repair some parts and replace some parts.

 

Personally, I think JPs performance stinks. Sure, I'd like it to be better... everyone would. But, he just doesn't have the supporting cast to do it. What QB could do a hell of a lot better under the current conditions? Peyton Manning? He'd get killed... who would he pass to besides Evans (who doesn't remind too many of us of Marvin Harrison)? Carson Palmer? Ditto. Ron Mexico? He'd be the same as he is now... just running around and having a couple of great games and a couple of bad ones.

 

This team needs a lot more than just a QB right now. And for those of you that think that JP's the problem and that if he's benched immediately that things will be better are damn dilusional. Who do the Bills bring in at QB that will perform better than JP with the current supporting cast? Brady Quinn? Stanton? McNair? Favre? Hasselbeck? Just who? Any of those guys would be on IR in just a few weeks. It's a credit to JP that he's still on the active roster and still able to start... and maintain a QB rating of above 80. And, each year he's played, his rating has gotten significantly better than the previous season. That's fact, and that shows some statisical evidence of progress.

 

So, as I mentioned in a previous post... if this regime is as successful in the upcoming draft as it was a year ago and with a major FA aquisition or two, providing JP with a better supporting cast, then we can pass judgement. The kid has had to adjust to a new coaching staff and learn a whole new offense. He deserves to be cut some slack after starting only 16 or 17 NFL games with the lack of talent he has around him. He is making progress.

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Goodness gracious.  This topic sure has been beaten to death.  So what if folks have faith in JP or don't?  The fact is, JP is the Bills QB this season, period, end of story.  This regime knows they've drawn a 'mulligan' this season, simply because they've inherited a bad team and are charged with fixing it.  They are going to use this year to allow JP to make it or break it.  And, he ain't the only one.  They know they've got to repair some parts and replace some parts.

 

Personally, I think JPs performance stinks.  Sure, I'd like it to be better... everyone would.  But, he just doesn't have the supporting cast to do it. What QB could do a hell of a lot better under the current conditions?  Peyton Manning?  He'd get killed... who would he pass to besides Evans (who doesn't remind too many of us of Marvin Harrison)?  Carson Palmer?  Ditto.  Ron Mexico?  He'd be the same as he is now... just running around and having a couple of great games and a couple of bad ones.

 

This team needs a lot more than just a QB right now.  And for those of you that think that JP's the problem and that if he's benched immediately that things will be better are damn dilusional.  Who do the Bills bring in at QB that will perform better than JP with the current supporting cast?  Brady Quinn? Stanton? McNair? Favre? Hasselbeck?  Just who?  Any of those guys would be on IR in just a few weeks.  It's a credit to JP that he's still on the active roster and still able to start... and maintain a QB rating of above 80.  And, each year he's played, his rating has gotten significantly better than the previous season.  That's fact, and that shows some statisical evidence of progress. 

 

So, as I mentioned in a previous post... if this regime is as successful in the upcoming draft as it was a year ago and with a major FA aquisition or two, providing JP with a better supporting cast, then we can pass judgement.  The kid has had to adjust to a new coaching staff and learn a whole new offense.  He deserves to be cut some slack after starting only 16 or 17 NFL games with the lack of talent he has around him.  He is making progress.

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r

 

Well said, Dr. Trooth. I have to respect a person who starts a post with "Goodness Gracious". (No, for once I'm not being facetious). It's almost getting on my nerves when I hear the talking network suits describe J.P as a "Third-Year QB". Huh? Yep, he was damn quick dodging sacks that first year...in a cast.

 

I have a running head-banging session with a co-worker from Lockport regarding J.P. While he's as big a Bills fan as anyone (even ME), he's solidly off the bandwagon. Fine. Be off the bandwagon. But put up or SHUT UP. Put the names on the board, boys. And then back it up with more than a couple of Labatts. Quinn in the draft? Or some mystery guest in Free Agency? (Remember, you're competing with places like Tampa Bay, and possibly Jacksonville, as venues. Still think you're going to bring in a superstar for workouts in western New York in February?).

 

Like any fan, I grasped mightily at the rosy vision of Terrence Pennington blowing people off the line. Of Robert Royal streaking down the middle. Of Melvin Fowler grinding people to mincemeat up the gut. It ain't happening. I don't know why it isn't. They're probably good people who take their craft seriously. But it ain't happening. Do I scream at the TV for J.P. to GET RID OF THE DAMN BALL FASTER? Bet yer sweet @$$ I do. But I also know that the receivers have to get open....FAST. It's that awful team thing.

 

So here's my question to those who would have Losman's head on a platter. First off...it's not going to happen, so get over it. Second, we have (in my not-so-humble-opinion) two glaring needs - another OLT (assuming you move Peters back over to ORT, and move Pennington back to bar bouncer), or a friggin' monster DT. I'm game - what do you think? Where do you go? Rebuild the OL, or put a near-convict in the middle? My call is to pick some DT dude who really likes farm animals in the first round, and find a ORT that knows how to run-block in the second round. Pass protection on the right side gets a lot easier when you're running people over. Thoughts? :D

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I used to have a 1976 Chevette, such a POS.

 

But as for an answer on the question, I don't think we can really gauge JP as QB until the O line is shored up.  If we can fix it in the draft/free agency, I say give him 4-5 games next season and if hestill can't cut it, time to get rid of him.

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I am in total agreement with you,provided they get him some line help next year. If the line still sucks, then I say let him play untill we get a decent Oline.
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Goodness gracious.  This topic sure has been beaten to death.  So what if folks have faith in JP or don't?  The fact is, JP is the Bills QB this season, period, end of story.  This regime knows they've drawn a 'mulligan' this season, simply because they've inherited a bad team and are charged with fixing it.  They are going to use this year to allow JP to make it or break it.  And, he ain't the only one.  They know they've got to repair some parts and replace some parts.

 

Personally, I think JPs performance stinks.  Sure, I'd like it to be better... everyone would.  But, he just doesn't have the supporting cast to do it. What QB could do a hell of a lot better under the current conditions?  Peyton Manning?  He'd get killed... who would he pass to besides Evans (who doesn't remind too many of us of Marvin Harrison)?  Carson Palmer?  Ditto.  Ron Mexico?  He'd be the same as he is now... just running around and having a couple of great games and a couple of bad ones.

 

This team needs a lot more than just a QB right now.  And for those of you that think that JP's the problem and that if he's benched immediately that things will be better are damn dilusional.  Who do the Bills bring in at QB that will perform better than JP with the current supporting cast?  Brady Quinn? Stanton? McNair? Favre? Hasselbeck?  Just who?  Any of those guys would be on IR in just a few weeks.  It's a credit to JP that he's still on the active roster and still able to start... and maintain a QB rating of above 80.  And, each year he's played, his rating has gotten significantly better than the previous season.  That's fact, and that shows some statisical evidence of progress. 

 

So, as I mentioned in a previous post... if this regime is as successful in the upcoming draft as it was a year ago and with a major FA aquisition or two, providing JP with a better supporting cast, then we can pass judgement.  The kid has had to adjust to a new coaching staff and learn a whole new offense.  He deserves to be cut some slack after starting only 16 or 17 NFL games with the lack of talent he has around him.  He is making progress.

840381[/snapback]

 

a freaking men

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We don't know how another QB would do. A Romo compared to a Bledsoe is proof enough to me that without seeing you never know.

 

When people here don't believe JP is a 3rd year pro because he was hurt we have to realize this is reality. Everywhere JP gets older. He's 25 and next year 26 before we realize if he's worth anything?

 

A man peaks for 3 years, usually between 26-29. I don't think he's going to peak into a great QB. I just don't see it, but I do all the excuses in the world.

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Alternately, should a time come when JP really shows his development and value, will you guys who hate him just stop coming up with different ways to create the same thread over and over and over again? Or will you just go find another team because you hate to be wrong?

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No worries, that time will not come.

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:D

It must be sad to have such conviction in your negativity.

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It's not sad at all, embracing reality is actually quite enlightening. If you want the Bills to continue to piss on your leg and tell you its raining, that is fine, congradulations.

 

Am I a pro scout or talent evaluator? No. But I have watched a lot of football over the years, as I'm sure we all have. If you want to think that in todays day and age that coaches and GMs are THAT much smarter than you or I, you can. The fact or the matter is I have never seen a 3rd year pro QB play so poorly and ever amount to a hill of beans. If you want Kyle Boller or Joey Harrington as your QB, then fine, you're all set.

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Nall is not a starter in this league, if he were good enough to start the coaches wouldn't have him third on the depth chart.

 

 

Exactly!! Nall and Holcomb both are career back up QB's. Back up being defined as one who waits for the starter to go down then has an oppertunity to play and does nothing spectacular. We all saw it last year with KH. JP was benched KH comes in and had 1 or 2 nice plays per game but for the most part he was very boring to watch. Sure we won a few with him but I seem to remember a certain game when KH got his bell rung by a KC defender and JP came in and opened up a can.

 

If you honestly think we would be better off with KH or CN at QB then you may want to think about lining up a bunch of cement mixers in front of them to give them time to check down and throw. If you think JP is bad that would just be a massacre with the current O-line.

 

JP's play this season has exposed the o-line for what it is. The defense has a harder time getting through airport security to actually get to the game than they do getting to our QB. The coaching staff wanted to keep JP in the pocket and read his defense's He tried that and I don't think even the guy that did the micro-machines commercials in the 80's could read that fast.

 

I have read that JP is a one read QB.. There is a reason for this. His bad decisions are not all on him. The coaching staff, O-line and his "deep threats" are all as responsible for the poor play of our offense these days as JP. When your QB comes to the line prior to the snap and says to himself this play isn't going to work because I can only get 3 steps into a 5 step drop. I would like to see the o-line give him a good 4 or 5 seconds or so to get into the backfield to start his check down process rather than the average 1.8 or so he has been getting.

 

Now the chains have come off and the coaching staff has decided to let JP roll out more rather than take a beating we should see the chains move more. Jp is very capable of creating plays with his feet and he can buy himself the time the O-line just cant provide.

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I honestly want to know your thoughts. If he gets adequate time behind the line the next 4 weeks and totally stinks up the joint while losing 4 more games, do you still want to keep him in the rest of the season without getting a look at Nall?

 

Would you at least want to see if Nall does any better so the off season is not a complete question mark again? Again, for those that think something will click in JPs head, what would your boiling point be (if any)? This question could just have easily been directed at the coaching staff.

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2 or 3 weeks with Nall behind center would prove absolutely nothing. It takes more than a few weeks to evaluate a QB. Advocates of giving Nall a chance 'to prove himself' in a few weeks are contradicting themselves by allowing Losman to prove it in 12 or 13 weeks. If the results were good or bad, you would not have enough datapoints to draw a proper conclusion. If nall couldn't win the job in camp, what chance does he have on the field? Face the facts...there is not a viable alternative on the bench.

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I give him the whole season. Then I ask whether he really sucked or did he look bad because the team was losing and playing poorly around him. There have been games this season where he sucked big time. The Indianapolis game was not one of them. He had a good completion percentage and did not turn the ball over. "But," his detractors say, " he only attempted 12 passes. The coaching staff doesn't trust him." No one has beaten the Colts this season, but the teams that came closest, Denver, Tennessee, and Buffalo are the teams that focussed most on the run and attempted the fewest number of passes. Add to that the fact that Buffalo's line sucks, and the game plan versus Indianapolis was less about not trusting Losman and more about doing what works best against a terrific team. If fans had not already decided they hated Losman before the game, they might actually have been impressed with Fairchild's strategy.

 

If Losman does not look good the rest of the way and decide to go in a different direction for next year, I'm OK with their decision, but if instead they decide to bolster the offensive line and retain Losman, that does not bother me a bit, except that I'm getting a little tired of all the negative Nancies.

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JP has the end of NEXT season to see if he pans out. Then we will know for sure.

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I think that JP is showing the promise and progress that he will get the keys to the camper for next season too. I don't think this is decided yet, but is how I feel the next seven games will unfold. This off season can be about addressing other areas on the team especially the trenches and improving other positions where possible. But if JP stinks up the joint over the next seven games and it is clear we can do better with another option this winter, we make that move this off season instead of after 2007.

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JP has the end of NEXT season to see if he pans out. Then we will know for sure.

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Apparently we already know for sure.....which is such a shame since it means spending high draft picks and at least 3 more years to 'know for sure' if the next guy has 'it'. Unfortunately though, DJ & Co. are not acting like they already 'know for sure' & are obviously wasting valuable development time for the 5th year pro Nall. :lol:

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I'm going to renew my JP Losman Bandwagon card for a couple more weeks if Jauron is saying that he's going to turn him loose.

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I don't mind seeing him run a bit more, maybe roll out a bit to keep the defense honest, but Losman needs the work in the pocket. Losman was a shotgun QB in college and didn't get a lot of work reading defenses and came in far, far greener than Manning or Rivers and nowhere near the talent of Roethlisberger. He might just as well take his lumps now and hopefully learn how to play the position from the pocket because he already knows how to run. With this cast, running and gunning will mean turnovers, blowout losses and more exposure to injury. I like the post bye-week conservative approach. Protect the football and learn how to get it done in the pocket.

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I don't mind seeing him run a bit more, maybe roll out a bit to keep the defense honest, but Losman needs the work in the pocket.  Losman was a shotgun QB  in college and didn't get a lot of work reading defenses and came in far, far greener than Manning or Rivers and nowhere near the talent of Roethlisberger.  He might just as well take his lumps now and hopefully learn how to play the position from the pocket because he already knows how to run.  With this cast, running and gunning will mean turnovers, blowout losses and more exposure to injury.  I like the post bye-week conservative approach.  Protect the football and learn how to get it done in the pocket.

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That's been my problem with JP all along. Yes, he''s a great athelete and could improvise in college. But it's his ability to read defenses and learn the NFL game that I have questioned (and he hasn't proved me wrong yet) that I have questioned

 

Am I a "JP Hater". By TSW standards, yes I am.

 

But in my defense I didn't like the pick to begin with and he hasn't proven me wrong yet :lol:

 

Go JP. I hope you prove me wrong.

 

But if he doesn't don't feel bad when I tell you enablers that I told you so

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That's been my problem with JP all along.  Yes, he''s a great athelete and could improvise in college.  But it's his ability to read defenses and learn the NFL game that I have questioned (and he hasn't proved me wrong yet) that I have questioned

 

Am I a "JP Hater".  By TSW standards, yes I am.

 

But in my defense I didn't like the pick to begin with and he hasn't proven me wrong yet :lol:

 

Go JP.  I hope you prove me wrong. 

 

But if he doesn't don't feel bad when I tell you enablers that I told you so

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Well, the enablers are the people working in the front office of OBD and not those who sit in the stands.

 

If given enough time in all likelihood JP might turn out to be nothing greater than a decent journeyman QB. But because this team is so bereft of talent on the Offensive side of the ball in order to be successful right now it needs a HOF QB ala John Elway, Man Darino, Dan Fouts, or Steve Young to compensate. What it's got is... well let's just say he's something less than that.

 

Each passing week JP reveals more of himself - which is to say there's less of him left that would demonstrate anything to warrant a belief that he will develop into a top notch NFL QB. Hell, most of us would love to see him take to the field and turn into a HOFer. Those that not so quietly root for his demise are bitter and emotionally twisted.

 

Marv and Company don't have to justify JP as a pick. If he fails, he'll belong on TD's trash heap of miasma. However, they would have to justify using him beyond this year. So, unless the dood from South California quickly gets his neural synapses firing in order, he's playing himself out of a job come January.

 

This situation is a little like Chuck Knox kicking Gary Anderson off the team because he didn't have confidence in the rookie and didn't want him to cost his Bills squad a playoff berth. Only the investment that OBD (collectively) has in JP wouldn't allow anything less than a full season of play in the No. 1 QB position. Unfortunately it looks more and more every week like JP is "playing at" being a No 1 QB.

 

JMHO - NTYA (not that you asked)

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JP has the end of NEXT season to see if he pans out. Then we will know for sure.

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I think you have to start him until he has one *full* season behind a *good* offensive line - say, with at least one pro-bowler. That assumes we still have talent at RB and WR too; if not, it wouldn't be fair to judge him.

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No matter how much we write...the only way we see Nall is a JP injury..

 

It would be more productive to ask can JP improve the next seven weeks under far less than optimal circumstances and position himself as a solid number 1 for next year..areas I will look for...

 

1) Lock On--there are a lot of plays even when he has time where he is locked onto one receiver and never comes off--Evans is the most frequent lock on target...If he did not have such a great arm--this is usually has consequence in INTs...signs of improvement here are more use of the TE and RB

2) Protection of the ball--this has gotten better the last two weeks but the offensive playcalling has been more bland than the pasta in plain butter my 22 month old son loves...can we open up a bit and still avoid the turnovers...

3) Sensing of the rush before the play--I haven't seen him make a hot read in probably 4 weeks---there is just no sense of a blitz or mismatch and an audible...its almost like watching a human sacrifice on a blitz knowing that he won't adjust...Smart QB's do this...QB's that have longevity in the NFL must do this...

 

If we start to see some of this--he goes into training camp 07 a solid number 1 -- if not more competition is brought in--there is no way he is cut; there is no way he doesn't get a chance to compete no matter how bad the next seven games go...if you want reality--this is it...

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No matter how much we write...the only way we see Nall is a JP injury..

 

It would be more productive to ask can JP improve the next seven weeks under far less than optimal circumstances and position himself as a solid number 1 for next year..areas I will look for...

 

1) Lock On--there are a lot of plays even when he has time where he is locked onto one receiver and never comes off--Evans is the most frequent lock on target...If he did not have such a great arm--this is usually has consequence in INTs...signs of improvement here are more use of the TE and RB

2) Protection of the ball--this has gotten better the last two weeks but the offensive playcalling has been more bland than the pasta in plain butter my 22 month old son loves...can we open up a bit and still avoid the turnovers...

3) Sensing of the rush before the play--I haven't seen him make a hot read in probably 4 weeks---there is just no sense of a blitz or mismatch and an audible...its almost like watching a human sacrifice on a blitz knowing that he won't adjust...Smart QB's do this...QB's that have longevity in the NFL must do this...

 

If we start to see some of this--he goes into training camp 07 a solid number 1 -- if not more competition is brought in--there is no way he is cut; there is no way he doesn't get a chance to compete no matter how bad the next seven games go...if you want reality--this is it...

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1) Lock on--did a nice job today of finding the secondary receiver--but had more time...B+ on this one

 

2) Protection of the ball--The Interception was an unforgiveable throw--have to put a sideline pattern up a little taller than that--you want the receiver to be the only one to catch it in that case--close to the goal--all else was pretty darn good though-- B-

 

3) Sensing the rush--great job on the first TD throw--got rid of it at the last possible millisecond and made the big play; last drive was also impressive--but still not enough use of changing the play-- B

 

A solid start to the final seven games -- string a couple of these together and Marv and Coach Jauron may cross--"acquire a QB to compete for the starting job" off the off-season list...

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