Its OK for the Bills to be a run-first team

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

While I like our ground game, I just don’t feel like it’s the kind of run offense that is going to get you anywhere when the going gets a lot tougher (playoffs) … when it inevitably gets stopped, I have almost zero faith that our passing game will be able to overcome this

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which solid receivers? No we haven't. It is the talent. 

Diggs production dropped off a cliff in Brady’s O. Guess what, we all thought he was done but he’s proven to be a solid WR. Maybe not as good as he was but definitely solid. Cooper was a solid WR who had a great season with Flacco and the Browns before coming to Buffalo. Samuel, Palmer, Moore all pretty solid players else where but have been total garbage here. Shakir is the only guy who’s got production in this O and that’s because he got a gift for running after the catch. If he didn’t get that yac he’d be considered garbage as well. He can actually do more than what he’s doing, just go watch his play from his first two seasons when he got on the field. Brady only uses him one way though

Edited 8 hours ago by BananaB

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It is alright, and it is who they have to be at the moment. But it is not alright that we have got here partly by accident. I think the staff always wanted balance. They did not want this inability to throw the ball down the field. That is not by design. It is a result of piss poor personnel decisions. 

 

The coaches are leaning into how the team has been built. But there are major questions marks about that build - both in strategy (which Beane and McDermott both have a hand in) and in talent evaluation (which is squarely on Brandon Beane). 

 

2.5 seasons running this style of offense isn't partly by accident at this point because, despite a lot of evidence to the contrary, it's what they believe works.   

 

They also have a historic habit of overestimating their WR group and then act surprised when those guys can't get it done.  Not to mention, they've poorly/under invested in WR going back to about 2021.    

 

This year it was expecting Coleman to become a boundary receiver primarily because he was their pick.  Or, expecting paying Shakir to become more than a RAC guy who could be a true slot.  Or, expecting Kincaid to improve (he has) but remain healthy (he hasn't).  Or, expecting Josh Palmer to be a WR2/3 type.  And to a lesser extent, expecting Moore to be better than the Cleveland version of himself or Samuel to be the player he no longer is apparently.

 

Has to change in the off-season, but it's McD and Beane and their stubbornness is legendary at this point.  Until then, yeah...all they can do is lean in and go with it. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

2.5 seasons running this style of offense isn't partly by accident at this point because, despite a lot of evidence to the contrary, it's what they believe works.   

 

They also have a historic habit of overestimating their WR group and then act surprised when those guys can't get it done.  Not to mention, they've poorly/under invested in WR going back to about 2021.    

 

This year it was expecting Coleman to become a boundary receiver primarily because he was their pick.  Or, expecting paying Shakir to become more than a RAC guy who could be a true slot.  Or, expecting Kincaid to improve (he has) but remain healthy (he hasn't).  Or, expecting Josh Palmer to be a WR2/3 type.  And to a lesser extent, expecting Moore to be better than the Cleveland version of himself or Samuel to be the player he no longer is apparently.

 

Has to change in the off-season, but it's McD and Beane and their stubbornness is legendary at this point.  Until then, yeah...all they can do is lean in and go with it. 

 

What I think is partly by accident is exactly the point you go on to make. They think their wide receivers are better than they are year after year. 

 

Whether it is telling us Samuel can contribute outside (he can't and I said so even when they were publicly proclaiming he could), drafting Keon and thinking he was an answer on the boundary (he isn't and was never going to be) or signing Palmer and talking him up (I called him the bare minimum option a week before FA began). 

 

They want to be balanced and run it and not take high risks with the ball in the passing game. I agree. They don't want to be this bad throwing the ball. That is the bit that is by accident and it is because of poor talent evaluation.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What I think is partly by accident is exactly the point you go on to make. They think their wide receivers are better than they are year after year. 

 

Whether it is telling us Samuel can contribute outside (he can't and I said so even when they were publicly proclaiming he could), drafting Keon and thinking he was an answer on the boundary (he isn't and was never going to be) or signing Palmer and talking him up (I called him the bare minimum option a week before FA began). 

 

They want to be balanced and run it and not take high risks with the ball in the passing game. I agree. They don't want to be this bad throwing the ball. That is the bit that is by accident and it is because of poor talent evaluation.

I also seem to recall Beane saying Shakir was a top 5 or 10 receiver a year or so back.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I also seem to recall Beane saying Shakir was a top 5 or 10 receiver a year or so back.

 

They also drafted him saying he had "inside / outside versatility". I said it then - he doesn't. 

[Nihilarian]

For those Bills fans upset that Buffalo didn't retain Stephon Diggs or Mack Hollins, or lamenting the current Bills offense. Then go take a look at the stats from the last few games of the New England Patriots games to discover that they are running an "everybody eats" style offense.

 

Against the NY Giants this past week, 8 receivers were targeted and all 8 caught at least one pass. Diggs was the 6th leading receiver with 3 receptions for 23 yards. Hollins was next at 7th with 3 receptions for 23 yards, and their TE Hunter Henry was the #1 receiver who had 4 receptions for 73 yards...look familiar? 31 passes with 29 rushes. 

 

The week previous against Cincy, the Patriots had 9 receivers targeted with at least one pass, and their TE Hunter Henry was their leading receiver with 7 receptions for 115 yards. Diggs was 5th at 2 receptions for 20 yards, Hollins 2 receptions for 30 yards. 35 passes, 31 rushes. 

 

Now going back further against the NY Jets in week 11, Diggs was the leading receiver with 9 receptions for 105 yards, Hollings was #2 with 4 receptions for 64 yards, and Henry was 3rd with 4 receptions for 45 yards. 34 passes, 27 rushes.

 

Against the Bucs, Hollins was the #1 with 6 receptions for 106 yards. Diggs was 3rd with 5 receptions for 46 yards. Henry was 5th with 1 reception for 9 yards and again, 8 receivers were targeted. 31 passes, 27 rushes.

 

Going back further, it looks like the Patriots mix things up with their leading receiver week to week, which is smart, and it also looks like both Diggs, Hollins are fading towards the end of the season. More than anything, Diggs is the team's rah-rah guy, perhaps Hollins too.

[frostbitmic]

Would Andy Reid turn the Chiefs into a run first offense with Patrick Mahomes as his QB ?

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

What I think is partly by accident is exactly the point you go on to make. They think their wide receivers are better than they are year after year. 

 

Whether it is telling us Samuel can contribute outside (he can't and I said so even when they were publicly proclaiming he could), drafting Keon and thinking he was an answer on the boundary (he isn't and was never going to be) or signing Palmer and talking him up (I called him the bare minimum option a week before FA began). 

 

They want to be balanced and run it and not take high risks with the ball in the passing game. I agree. They don't want to be this bad throwing the ball. That is the bit that is by accident and it is because of poor talent evaluation.

 

Poor talent evaluation is not an accident.  I'd call that a combination of arrogant and stupidly stubborn.  Especially because the history is there going back practically their whole tenure at OBD.   

 

Because this issue didn't show up in 2024...it's been an oncoming slow-motion train wreck since 2021.  End of the road or mediocre UFAs.  Not developing the position w/higher picks.  

 

It'd be like picking stocks and your last 10 lost big money.  Eventually you just stop and go with a decent history ETF while admitting you aren't that good at investing.  

[BillsFanForever19]

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm already done with Davis to be honest. Dropped a TD against Tampa, failed to get both feet inbounds at the end against Houston on a play that might have won us the game, had his typical route miscommunication with Allen leading to an INT against Pittsburgh. I'm so over it. Targets in his direction are 50/50 whether they'll be a big play or a complete disaster. It's actually starting to lean more 40/60. We worked so hard to remove Davis' brand of chaos from the game script only to welcome it back because we put ourselves in a corner. I'm good with Brandin Cooks taking his job permanently.

 

Four things I immediately want to see less of in this offense, in this order:

 

1) Passes to Elijah Moore - one down, three to go

2) Passes to Gabe Davis

3) Passes to Knox

4) Forward passes to Shakir

 

By and large these plays have been black holes in our offense all year long.

 

Then we have to hope that Palmer also gets healthy and stays healthy. Bc when it comes to Coleman and Shavers beating their man, I'm less than 40/60 on them. I don't know that I'm much higher than 40/60 with Palmer either. 

 

By "forward passes to Shakir" - I'm assuming you mean the screens? In a vacuum, I get that. They're low percentage plays. But that kind of goes back to what I was saying about being hopeful that Cooks can exceed expectations...

 

Right now, in large part bc the depth chart is so atrocious, Shakir is the focal point of opposing teams coverage. He's treated like a #1. And as good of a Slot as he is and as elusive as he is, he's not a #1. He's not going to beat guys like Jalen Ramsey, who was on him last week. And he's certainly not going to beat double coverage.

 

So that play is run almost out of necessity. As it's the only way to get him touches with any sort of consistency. As he can't get open. Sadly, a low percentage play like that is still a higher percentage than expecting him to get open.

 

My hope is that Kincaid and Cooks can roll some attention away from him and allow him more opportunities. Bc right now, he's pretty much neutralized by the opposition with little to no help around him.

[GunnerBill]

57 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Poor talent evaluation is not an accident.  I'd call that a combination of arrogant and stupidly stubborn.  Especially because the history is there going back practically their whole tenure at OBD.   

 

Because this issue didn't show up in 2024...it's been an oncoming slow-motion train wreck since 2021.  End of the road or mediocre UFAs.  Not developing the position w/higher picks.  

 

It'd be like picking stocks and your last 10 lost big money.  Eventually you just stop and go with a decent history ETF while admitting you aren't that good at investing.  

 

No poor talent evaluation is not an accident. Them being in this position is an accident because nobody banks on themself being a poor talent evaluator. I agree it is on them. I am not giving them an out. 

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

By "forward passes to Shakir" - I'm assuming you mean the screens?

 

No I'm fine with the horizontal passes to Shakir. They haven't been successful the past couple games but I wouldn't give up on them. I mean literally forward passes. Drops, INTs, fumbles, inability to get both feet in - those have been the outcome of way too many targets in Shakir's direction this year. We have to give up on the idea that he is a legit slot WR. He's a gadget player who's playing hurt so his overall role just needs to be reduced.

 

I'd give TEs and RBs the majority of our targets from now on. Palmer if he can ever get healthy should get the most targets outside and even those targets should be limited, and maybe Cooks can give us something when he's been fully implemented. Anything else in our passing offense should be reduced as much as possible.

[Chaos]

I am going to use a golf analogy.  Josh Allen is peak Tiger Woods, able to do things no one else playing the game can do.  

No one advised peak Tiger. "Put the driver away, its not fun hitting further than everyone else and winning majors by double digit strokes"  "what you oughta do is tee-off with a five iron.  By doing this you will become the all time leader in fairways hit in regulation"

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What I think is partly by accident is exactly the point you go on to make. They think their wide receivers are better than they are year after year. 

 

Whether it is telling us Samuel can contribute outside (he can't and I said so even when they were publicly proclaiming he could), drafting Keon and thinking he was an answer on the boundary (he isn't and was never going to be) or signing Palmer and talking him up (I called him the bare minimum option a week before FA began). 

 

They want to be balanced and run it and not take high risks with the ball in the passing game. I agree. They don't want to be this bad throwing the ball. That is the bit that is by accident and it is because of poor talent evaluation.

Spot on! 

[BillytheKid]

On 12/2/2025 at 10:23 AM, TheFunPolice said:

10 days ago the sky was falling because the Texans dominated the Bills offense. 

 

Now we're a Super Bowl team whose running game cannot be stopped. 

 

I'm always happy with a W but people have gone way too far overboard because of a bad Steelers team. 

 

The offense scored 19 points, even with all the running success. Luckily, Pittsburgh's offense is so bad they can barely score 1 TD per game. Against good teams with potent offenses that is going to be tough. 

Well the wind was blowing like 25 mph and had gusts of up over 35 mph so I think that had some effect on throwing the ball. 
 

So no offense was going to be scoring a lot that game unless they could run it. 

[newcam2012]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No poor talent evaluation is not an accident. Them being in this position is an accident because nobody banks on themself being a poor talent evaluator. I agree it is on them. I am not giving them an out. 

Serious question here. Is part of the problem with the passing game a Brady problem as well? I feel like no matter who the Bills have at WR they aren't going to excell or reach their potential. Of course,bits an over statement but you get the point. More specifically, Brady's offense seems predictable and uncreative especially in the passing game. I don't see him scheming open guys and setting up defenses. Of course, part of the problem is lack of WR talent and asking them to do things they aren't good at. For example, Coleman being and X WR and Shakir basically being used as a RB. 

 

Something's gotta change. I think they need an injection of WRs and an innovative OC. Can you imagine what Ben Johnson could do with Allen, Cook, Shakir, etc...?