What's wrong with Josh?

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

It was the success they had with this philosophy after they fired Dorsey and elevated Brady. Brady took the ball out of Allen’s hands by leaning on the run and the offense thrived. They continued that last year with even greater success. 
 

This is the way according to Brady/McD. 

 

I disagree.  I don't think either McD or Brady is purposely bad at throwing downfield.  

 

My guess is what they want to do is stretch the field both vertically and horizontally.  Balance.  Run inside and out, throw short and deep.  Force opponents to defend the entire field. 

 

But we're not good enough to do that.  Our WRs don't get a lot of separation, our OL has been inconsistent at passpro, and our OC isn't adept at scheming a downfield passing game. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Well I will say this after my rewatch of the first half of Panthers game: 

 

-Allen left some obvious options on the table. He continues to bail early from the pocket and doesn’t seem to be working through entire progressions.

 

-Brady’s scheme is questionable, in that often times we’re running two man concepts with a max protect into 7 defenders…or we’re running a two man concept both within 3 yards of the LOS. 
 

- Guys were open, or had a chance at times to get the ball, and Josh is opting to look elsewhere or scramble. 
 

- Zones seem to be giving this team the most trouble, despite what everyone has to say about our issues with man coverage. We are not finding holes in the zone (Brady, Allen, and WRs aren’t in synch). 
 

- The average depth of completion in that half had to be a career low for Allen. The only downfield throw was the 22 yarder to Kincaid in man, 

 

My take away from that half reaffirmed what I’ve thought: Allen’s mentality has shifted in large part to many factors: limited opportunity due to scheme knowing game flow dictate he play it safe, not trusting WRs to win and is looking for clearly open players (or Kincaid who he trusts).

 

I don’t think adding any WR at this point is going to fix what the issue is: to me it has to be a combined effort to revamp the effort to push the ball down the field, trusting his guys, and drawing up some better route combinations against zones. 

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

So one hand you're correct. If Allen doesn't play at his MVP near-perfect level we have no chance of going far this year. But why are you framing this as a criticism of Allen? In actuality it's a massive indictment of the people in charge.

Addressing both you and Cincy at the same time… we don’t need Allen to be elite every single game. That’s not even realistic. Above average QB play, combined with the running game, will get it done against the likes of the Falcons, Saints, Dolphins, etc. I think it’s enough to get it done against upstarts like the Patriots (provided we’re not losing the turnover battle). But to your question…

 

To whom much is given, much is expected in return. It’s not a criticism of Allen, Mahomes, Hurts, Jackson, or [insert prominent QB’s name here] to want (or expect) the guy to elevate his play enough to score one more point than the opponent. Yes, Allen is human, he will have off games, but what does his offense do when given the ball and a chance to win the game? With that said… 
 

Allen has been repeatedly let down by his teammates in the playoffs. Its not fair to criticize his heroics there, including the much maligned Shakir vs Diggs pass against KC. In these regular season losses its been a combination of his play and others, including his offensive coordinator. NONE of them are above reproach and that’s the point of it all. To criticize his play - along with the others - isn’t throwing shade, it’s calling a spade a spade. We’ll see how it all plays out when it matters most - the 2026 playoffs. I hope at that time the offense and Allen especially are running like a finely tuned engine. The QB who performs the best will most likely see his team with a Lombardi trophy at the end of it all.

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I disagree.  I don't think either McD or Brady is purposely bad at throwing downfield.  

 

My guess is what they want to do is stretch the field both vertically and horizontally.  Balance.  Run inside and out, throw short and deep.  Force opponents to defend the entire field. 

 

But we're not good enough to do that.  Our WRs don't get a lot of separation, our OL has been inconsistent at passpro, and our OC isn't adept at scheming a downfield passing game. 

I don’t think they’re being bad on purpose. I think they want a balance ball control type offense. It has been working for a year plus. 
 

Agree that the receivers are not good enough right now. 

[hondo in seattle]

15 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I don’t think they’re being bad on purpose. I think they want a balance ball control type offense. It has been working for a year plus. 
 

Agree that the receivers are not good enough right now. 

 

I shouldn't have said it like that, and I do agree that McD and Brady want a balanced offense.   And while Brady is producing less yards/game than his predecessors, he's also putting up more points and fewer TOs.  I do give him some credit.  

 

Still, I believe Brady has a problem scheming a downfield passing game.  Other than the 4th quarter of the Ravens game, Brady can't seem to dial one up when he needs to.  

 

I'd really love to see the Bills hire a good passing game coordinator this offseason to help Brady out.  

[jaybeezee]

2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Well I will say this after my rewatch of the first half of Panthers game: 

 

-Allen left some obvious options on the table. He continues to bail early from the pocket and doesn’t seem to be working through entire progressions.

 

-Brady’s scheme is questionable, in that often times we’re running two man concepts with a max protect into 7 defenders…or we’re running a two man concept both within 3 yards of the LOS. 
 

- Guys were open, or had a chance at times to get the ball, and Josh is opting to look elsewhere or scramble. 
 

- Zones seem to be giving this team the most trouble, despite what everyone has to say about our issues with man coverage. We are not finding holes in the zone (Brady, Allen, and WRs aren’t in synch). 
 

- The average depth of completion in that half had to be a career low for Allen. The only downfield throw was the 22 yarder to Kincaid in man, 

 

My take away from that half reaffirmed what I’ve thought: Allen’s mentality has shifted in large part to many factors: limited opportunity due to scheme knowing game flow dictate he play it safe, not trusting WRs to win and is looking for clearly open players (or Kincaid who he trusts).

 

I don’t think adding any WR at this point is going to fix what the issue is: to me it has to be a combined effort to revamp the effort to push the ball down the field, trusting his guys, and drawing up some better route combinations against zones. 

I can agree with your statement.  I also put blame on Josh as well. I saw plenty of opportunities with guys ppen on slant routes several times and if he hit them, they would have gained another 5-10 yards 

Just now, jaybeezee said:

I can agree with your statement.  I also put blame on Josh as well. I saw plenty of opportunities with guys ppen on slant routes several times and if he hit them, they would have gained another 5-10 yards 

My problem with Josh right now is he's gotta know this, as this is been happening now for the last 4 games.  Why can't he fix this problem? 

2 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

I can agree with your statement.  I also put blame on Josh as well. I saw plenty of opportunities with guys ppen on slant routes several times and if he hit them, they would have gained another 5-10 yards 

My problem with Josh right now is he's gotta know this, as this is been happening now for the last 4 games.  Why can't he fix this problem? It's all on the tape. He's also not reading blitzing either.  

 

[Scott7975]

Beane didn't give him anything to work with and McD broke the dog in him. Other than Shakir, this team is full of #4s. You can see the dog broken by how hesitant he is to run with the football. I started seeing and commenting on this last year. You can also hear it when he has said 3 times now that its no longer superbowl or bust and that they have no expectations this season other than just play football.

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, Pete said:

Keon has been reprimanded a couple times.  Keon is the least professional Bills DNA player in the locker room imo.  He’s young, so there’s time for maturity to kick in.   But with all of the love and support and experience and success in the locker room I’m surprised that Keon hasn’t grown up by now.

 

I thought playing time was earned.  Landon will tell you that.  Why does McD reward Keon with playing time when he’s not doing well on or off the field?  And to give Keon the most minutes is confounding.  It has to be for his blocking.

 

who else is there..Shavers has been pretty bad..and I don't think we have any other reasonable WR on practice squad.

[DrPJax]

       Not sure if it was mentioned but Orlovsky did his weekly appearance w tasker and brown where they asked him about Josh. Orlovsky was very honest and stated Josh has not played well approximately the last 4 games.  He is missing easy throws , missing open receivers,  his scrambling looks off where he is usually dangerous in that way.  It was a very frank , honest assessment coming from an analyst that could get dropped if he offends the regime, but he didn’t hold back. He did say the WRs are not threatening really to anyone. But he was firm he expected better play from last years mvp.  
     On the other hand he remarked how good Mahomes is playing and looks to be in SB OR prior good form. Our O does  not have a defining personality outside running cook , and that was almost exclusively toss pitch runs the last game.  KC once again is coming up with innovative plays , and they have a multitude of receivers who bring different threats the bills will have to find ways to cope with.  They have speed, speed plus strength ( rice) , thorton stretching the field , Hollywood brown with speed and experience, and of course Kelce.   Hunt will still be able to run with pichecko out.   Basically , bills will have to score over 32 to beat the chiefs , or teams like the colts , bronchos , and KC come playoff time according to Orlovsky.  He and tasker both ended saying we have to score on most possessions to keep up with KC and have a chance to win this week.  Neither sounded enthusiastic, but the main point is Josh is not playing well despite what he says regarding certain passes. The wr corp is poor at getting open but Josh looks out of sync.  
     Cower stated the same while on the SHOUT podcast but of course believes in Mcd etc. Matt bove along w Howard Simon and Joe buscaglia all feel the wr corp needs an addition, w. Howard being especially critical. They feel KC is a critical game for the season. Beane obviously didn’t make any moves in time for KC regarding the WRs , so I wouldn’t see the point trading if we lose. Pats just have such an easy schedule.  Hard to feel positive playing KC as right now Josh and Mahomes look to be playing at different levels; if Palmer doesn’t play ( Orlovsky thinks he is important) and spags neutralizes cook , it’s could be season changing for the Bills. 

[Pete]

39 minutes ago, ganesh said:

who else is there..Shavers has been pretty bad..and I don't think we have any other reasonable WR on practice squad.

That’s why we are years late from adding a quality WR.  WR seems like Beanes least priority out every position, besides kicker, imo

[BananaB]

26 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

       Not sure if it was mentioned but Orlovsky did his weekly appearance w tasker and brown where they asked him about Josh. Orlovsky was very honest and stated Josh has not played well approximately the last 4 games.  He is missing easy throws , missing open receivers,  his scrambling looks off where he is usually dangerous in that way.  It was a very frank , honest assessment coming from an analyst that could get dropped if he offends the regime, but he didn’t hold back. He did say the WRs are not threatening really to anyone. But he was firm he expected better play from last years mvp.  
     On the other hand he remarked how good Mahomes is playing and looks to be in SB OR prior good form. Our O does  not have a defining personality outside running cook , and that was almost exclusively toss pitch runs the last game.  KC once again is coming up with innovative plays , and they have a multitude of receivers who bring different threats the bills will have to find ways to cope with.  They have speed, speed plus strength ( rice) , thorton stretching the field , Hollywood brown with speed and experience, and of course Kelce.   Hunt will still be able to run with pichecko out.   Basically , bills will have to score over 32 to beat the chiefs , or teams like the colts , bronchos , and KC come playoff time according to Orlovsky.  He and tasker both ended saying we have to score on most possessions to keep up with KC and have a chance to win this week.  Neither sounded enthusiastic, but the main point is Josh is not playing well despite what he says regarding certain passes. The wr corp is poor at getting open but Josh looks out of sync.  
     Cower stated the same while on the SHOUT podcast but of course believes in Mcd etc. Matt bove along w Howard Simon and Joe buscaglia all feel the wr corp needs an addition, w. Howard being especially critical. They feel KC is a critical game for the season. Beane obviously didn’t make any moves in time for KC regarding the WRs , so I wouldn’t see the point trading if we lose. Pats just have such an easy schedule.  Hard to feel positive playing KC as right now Josh and Mahomes look to be playing at different levels; if Palmer doesn’t play ( Orlovsky thinks he is important) and spags neutralizes cook , it’s could be season changing for the Bills. 

Not trusting the players around you will do that

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

Not trusting the players around you will do that

Over the last couple of seasons you could say the exact same thing about Mahomes for 3 - 4 game stretches as he looked "off".  Of course like Allen, Mahomes was struggling with a very poor WR group.

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Beane didn't give him anything to work with and McD broke the dog in him. Other than Shakir, this team is full of #4s. You can see the dog broken by how hesitant he is to run with the football. I started seeing and commenting on this last year. You can also hear it when he has said 3 times now that its no longer superbowl or bust and that they have no expectations this season other than just play football.

I hate that about the team right now. We go from "championship caliber" to basically conceding defeat. "Ok guys just go out and have fun. Play ball, but don't expect anything great out of it". How motivating. 

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Over the last couple of seasons you could say the exact same thing about Mahomes for 3 - 4 game stretches as he looked "off".  Of course like Allen, Mahomes was struggling with a very poor WR group.

 

 

You could say the same about Allen the past 4 years at some point. 
-they went out and brought back Beas and Smoke when there was struggles

- then they fired Dorsey when things weren’t working and changed the O system. I feel that was alittle to do with Dorsey and the WRs we had. Sherfield and Harty playing more then Shakir at start of season
- traded for Coop when the WRs were struggling last year.

 

Now you have what’s going on this year. Even though Coop didn’t produce much, he demanded respect from opposing defenses and it helped all our WRs. 

Edited yesterday at 02:43 PM by BananaB

[PrimeTime101]

JA has had so many different WR groupings from speed.. to now this. my opinion JA needs mroe speed and less of the big boys. 

[BananaB]

5 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

JA has had so many different WR groupings from speed.. to now this. my opinion JA needs mroe speed and less of the big boys. 

Shakir, Moore, Palmer and Samuel are all pretty fast. Seems they just uses each for a few things and none of them have much versatility. So it would seem in this Brady offense. Shakir was running deep routes with Dorsey his rookie year, you never see him run any now. I know Moore and Smauel did more than what Bills are asking them to do here. 

[jaybeezee]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Beane didn't give him anything to work with and McD broke the dog in him. Other than Shakir, this team is full of #4s. You can see the dog broken by how hesitant he is to run with the football. I started seeing and commenting on this last year. You can also hear it when he has said 3 times now that its no longer superbowl or bust and that they have no expectations this season other than just play football.

I need to know how i can send him a brand new copy of the Mamba Mentality. He stated early in hus career that he would read it on every road game. 

 

I know McBeane must of snuck into his room and burned it several years ago. 

 

Kobe would never say its not championship or bust!

[milfandcookies]

Maybe he has lost his fire. It’s just a game at the end of the day. They tell him to throw it 20 times behind the line so he does 

[Warriorspikes51]

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Beane didn't give him anything to work with and McD broke the dog in him. Other than Shakir, this team is full of #4s. You can see the dog broken by how hesitant he is to run with the football. I started seeing and commenting on this last year. You can also hear it when he has said 3 times now that its no longer superbowl or bust and that they have no expectations this season other than just play football.

you're taking this a bit out of context.....his comments are about focusing on each play 

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Over the last couple of seasons you could say the exact same thing about Mahomes for 3 - 4 game stretches as he looked "off".  Of course like Allen, Mahomes was struggling with a very poor WR group.

 

 

 

This.  See KC a few weeks ago..... 

[TheWei44]

8 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

you're taking this a bit out of context.....his comments are about focusing on each play 

 

This.  See KC a few weeks ago..... 

Even last week he threw 2 picks in first half - The Commanders just couldn't do jack sh@t with those opportunities.