We need a downfield passing game

[warrior9]

9 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Are you all sure ?

 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that our WR corp "quietly got better"

It has, it's not the players fault that the Bills decide to run trick plays, screens, and etc. Brady's play call the other day left something to be desired. 

 

The Bills have 4 drops this year and are 3rd in yards, 4-1 and 3rd in points........ 

 

what else do you want? 

Edited 2 hours ago by warrior9

[BillsVet]

17 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

The Bills need a WR on the outside that can separate consistently. Kincaid has been a nice target but he's not an outside separator and Keon's just not that boundary WR just yet and may just be more of a contested catch guy. Shakir is more of a zone breaker slot WR and Palmer's competent by far from dynamic. Samuel is more of a gadget guy. 

 

If it were up to me I would strongly be in the market for a Chris Olave trade. The Bills if they were to have a WR core of Olave/Keon on the outside Shakir in the slot with Palmer as a pure WR4 and Samuel as a gadget player I think they would be much more dynamic and consistent at WR. It's not as bad as the WR core was before they traded for Cooper last year but they need a big punch up at WR. I would strongly consider a 2nd round pick swap with a 5th rounder to get Olave. 

 

I wouldn't rule Beane making a deal for a WR, but that'd be 2 straight off-seasons he acknowledged a mistake.  Couple issues: 

 

1. Bills have 2.5M in cap space.  Going to take some maneuvering to fit an acquired receiver under that. 

 

2. Which WR does Buffalo DFA to fit that player on the game-day roster?  Won't be Palmer, Shakir, or Coleman.  Probably Samuel or Moore, neither of whom have shown much.  

 

3. The acquired player displaces Coleman, who Beane's been rightly criticized about since he was drafted and has done almost nothing to dispel.  Not a good look.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

It has, it's not the players fault that the Bills decide to run trick plays, screens, and etc. Brady's play call the other day was something to be desired. 

 

The Bills have 4 drops this year and are 3rd in yards, 4-1 and 3rd in points........ 

 

what else do you want? 

We make an assumption that is probably not true. We assume that an OC calls plays and the offense runs those exact plays. But Josh audibles A LOT. And from what I'm seeing, he audibles from downfield passes into runs and screens based upon the coverage he is seeing. 

[JaCrispy]

22 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

You love to hate the WR's and specifically Keon. You overrate and said he's immature etc based on McDermott's benching FOR ONE SERIES. Do you think if he was a problem in the locker room that he would only sit out one series? Do you know how fast Samuel is? 

 

Dalton Kincaid's avg is 14.4, Keon Coleman is 11. Shakir avg is 11 as well.. Josh is 9th in the league in yards per completion. Are you sure we don't have a downfield passing attack? 

 

PS we also have the number 2 RB in terms of yards in the NFL... maybe you need to fking relax and stop being so negative.. holy cow. 

First off, I don’t hate Coleman…

 

I just accept that we drafted a mediocre player with our first pick…

 

And I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks our WR room is anything but mediocre…

 

But hey, you get what you pay for…

[VW82]

We need to do a better job of recognizing when teams are in base defense and if so audibling out of the run and into something that has the chance of completing downfield. 

[warrior9]

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

First off, I don’t hate Coleman…

 

I just accept that we drafted a mediocre player with our first pick…

 

And I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks our WR room is anything but mediocre…

 

But hey, you get what you pay for…

No, that's you based on your feeling. You didn't respond to ANY of the stats I put in there. I'll try again. 

 

Kincaid has an avg catch of 14.4, Coleman and Shakir are around 10.5. Samuel, albeit small sample is close to 11. 

 

We also have the second leading rusher in the NFL. 

 

We are also 3rd in yards, 3rd in points, and 4-1. 

[gobills404]

The Bills have 19 passes of 20+ yards this season. 3rd most in the league. Not too shabby for a team that apparently can’t push the ball down the field.

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

Edited 2 hours ago by gobills404

[zow2]

Nick Wright made a good point today on one of the morning shows..  He was talking about Baker Mayfield in that the Bucs can live with an INT per game because they push the ball down the field and make up for it with explosives.  So it may end up being a 3 to 1 ratio.   He brought up how the Bills were like this with Allen prior to last season.. The turnovers were not as harmful as the numbers because they made up for it easily.  But if the team gets conservative, you can't turn it over at all, that will kill you.   The Bills have been way too conservative, especially in the first half of their games this season.

[The Jokeman]

33 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I wouldn't rule Beane making a deal for a WR, but that'd be 2 straight off-seasons he acknowledged a mistake.  Couple issues: 

 

1. Bills have 2.5M in cap space.  Going to take some maneuvering to fit an acquired receiver under that. 

 

2. Which WR does Buffalo DFA to fit that player on the game-day roster?  Won't be Palmer, Shakir, or Coleman.  Probably Samuel or Moore, neither of whom have shown much.  

 

3. The acquired player displaces Coleman, who Beane's been rightly criticized about since he was drafted and has done almost nothing to dispel.  Not a good look.

Samuel and Moore on down on the pecking order so while haven't produced much they have made some plays on their limited touches. That's the issue with a share the wealth passing game, guys aren't going to show big individual state numbers but if things going right Josh's numbers will be I mean as bad as Josh was Sunday night he still finished 12th overall in passing yards which is slightly better than average. In terms of trading for a guy, I mean it depends who is out there. I've seen mention of Rashid Shaheed brought up before, it makes sense but oddly enough he's having his worst YPC year to date. Yet also on a pace for his best reception and yards total of his career. Another name I'd look at is Tre Tucker from the Raiders.  He is undersized but with Jakobi Myers the slot he's forced outside and done well this season and he's low cost only counting $1.4m against the cap this year and $1.68m next season. Though not sure the Raiders would let him go unless give them a higher draft pick.

[Success]

Have we even thrown a deep ball this season?  I know we have some 20+, but I haven't seen any plays that really stretch the field beyond that.

 

And we have the best deep thrower in the business.

 

I really have a love/hate w/ this team.

 

[Andrew Son]

1 minute ago, Success said:

And we have the best deep thrower in the business.

We have among the worst.

[sven233]

18 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

The Bills have 19 passes of 20+ yards this season. 3rd most in the league. Not too shabby for a team that apparently can’t push the ball down the field.

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

 

I'm not sure what context these stats show.  Air yards or just the results?  Because there have been several short screens or check downs that our guys have busted for big plays.  Doesn't necessarily mean we are pushing the ball down the field.  

 

Here's the thing.....I think the narrative itself of pushing the ball down the field is kind of overblown.  What I want to see is more consistency in the intermediate areas of the field.....that 15-20 yard area and I want to see that consistency come from on-time plays within the structure of the offense.  So many times, Allen scrambles, buys time until someone finally comes open.  Seems like it is a rarity that Allen drops back, plants his feet, and fires a laser 15 to 25 yards down the field.  You'd think if teams are playing to prevent you from getting over the top, there would be room to roam in these mid-level distances.  But that's not happening with consistency.

 

So, no....I don't need to be chucking the ball 40+ yards down the field on a regular basis, but it would be nice to see more success in the intermediate levels within the structure of the offense instead of relying on Shakir or Cook to bust one after the catch.  

[Success]

1 minute ago, Andrew Son said:

We have among the worst.

 

Huh?

 

[Andrew Son]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Huh?

 

Despite his incredible arm Josh has never been great with the deep ball.  Most people think a great arm automatically means a great deep ball but that's not the case.  A Russ Wilson moon ball is easier to track and catch than a laser with limited arc.

[Bruffalo]

34 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

The Bills have 19 passes of 20+ yards this season. 3rd most in the league. Not too shabby for a team that apparently can’t push the ball down the field.

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

A lot of the teeth gnashing about the offense is because they have to be perfect since the defense isn't doing their jobs, whether or not people want to admit that. 

 

[Success]

2 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

A lot of the teeth gnashing about the offense is because they have to be perfect since the defense isn't doing their jobs, whether or not people want to admit that. 

 

 

Not a bad point. The O should be able to put up 20 once in awhile and not have it be an automatic loss.

 

[SoCal Deek]

This debate rages on, year after year. It always seems to boil down to speed at WR. I’m not so convinced. The question should be whether the offense has a variety of routes on every play, not a variety of throws. Put another way, no matter how fast your WRs are it doesn’t mean the defense is just going to let them run deep behind the opposing safeties because they don’t believe we’ll throw it deep. What you really want are route trees that cause mismatches and overloads in the opposing secondary. 

[gobills404]

11 minutes ago, sven233 said:

So, no....I don't need to be chucking the ball 40+ yards down the field on a regular basis, but it would be nice to see more success in the intermediate levels within the structure of the offense instead of relying on Shakir or Cook to bust one after the catch.  

Shakir and Cook combined only account for 3 of those 19 plays, and one of them was a pass that traveled 20+ yards in the air. Kincaid has 6 of the 19, Coleman and Palmer 3 each, Moore with 2, and Hawes and Samuel with 1 each.

24 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

A lot of the teeth gnashing about the offense is because they have to be perfect since the defense isn't doing their jobs, whether or not people want to admit that. 

 

The offense didn’t have to be perfect they just had to not turn it over 3 times. The defense wasn’t great but they kept us in a game that could’ve easily gotten out of hand and at least gave the offense a chance to come back.

[Bruffalo]

4 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

The offense didn’t have to be perfect they just had to not turn it over 3 times. The defense wasn’t great but they kept us in a game that could’ve easily gotten out of hand and at least gave the offense a chance to come back.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with you. The turnovers were a major factor in this loss.

 

I don't think that negates what I said though. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Even with everything that went wrong against New England, we were one missed throw (to Samuels in the 4Q) from beating them.