Game week thread - Pats at Bills SNF

[stevewin]

4 hours ago, boyst said:

Lol

 

Please take as much offense to this as possible because right now it is deserved but you may be forgiven since as a patriots fan you didn't discover football until some time in mid October 2001.

 

Belichick had precious experience in Cleveland and in his narcissistic grandeur wore his welcome out there. 36-44. His success largely entailed riding the coattails of Parcells.

 

He went to NYJ as HC and chickened out, too. He got to NE and thought he would get another go at it. 

 

The Internet is impossible to search for it with all the time since 2000 was a long time ago but the NE fans wanted him gone especially the 0-1 start and 5-11 start before.

 

After Bledsoe was injured the team called and  brought in some QBs to tryout. Belichick opted to roll with what he had and was quoted as saying he will try the rookie out and rely on the defense. The speculation was that he knew the season was done and he likely wouldn't last beyond his second year with Bledsoe hurt. Bledsoe had just become the highest paid player ever, mind you.

 

Brady came in and didn't make mistakes his first year. He did just enough to get the positions to win and not give up enough to cost a loss. 

 

If not for Brady Belichick would not have been the HC the next year.

 

It's sad how Patriots fans don't know this but again, most don't know football before Sept 23rdh 2001. 

Oh and lets not forget a systemic culture of cheating for decades.   Belicheat was nothing once his Czar of Cheating retired 

[RiotAct]

28 minutes ago, 50yrpatsfan said:

McDaniels is a 3x SB winning OC, plus a 4th SB where the Pats had 600 yards of offense and they lost. He's tied with Andy Reid as the most prolific OC in the game.

pfffft

: waves hand dismissively :

[gonzo1105]

2 hours ago, TPS said:

This is why I'm surprised (or not?) that so many people here think he hasn't done much?  Maybe because pressures aren't in the box score?  I notice him near the QB (pressure) several times every game. The sacks will come.

He has 3 plays in pass rush I vividly remember so far pass rush wise. 2 plays last week where he flushed Rattler out and Epenesa got the sack, the Intentional grounding play by Rattler, and the Jets game where he got close and Fields sidestepped him allowing Logue to clean it up for the sack. 
 

Im sure there is more but those are the ones I remember. He has been fine for a rookie playing 4 games. You can see he’s getting better as it goes along 

[Aesop]

Go Bills!!

[50yrpatsfan]

15 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

pfffft

: waves hand dismissively :

Wave your hand all you want, those are the facts. If you want to credit it all to Brady, then credit it all to Mahomes. Plus look at some of the other years in the 2010's when NE didn't make the SB but led the league in offense. McDaniel's record is unbelievable.

Edited yesterday at 01:41 AM by 50yrpatsfan

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, 50yrpatsfan said:

Wave your hand all you want, those are the facts. If you want to credit it all to Brady, then credit it all to Mahomes. Plus look at some of the other years in the 2010's when NE didn't make the SB but led the league in offense. McDaniel's record is unbelievable.

If I declare Josh McDaniels the offensive genius to end all offensive geniuses and kiss all 6 of the Pats rings, will you leave?

[Cash]

5 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

The Bills were elite at turnovers last year which is an extrEmely metric, no Question.

 

But to keep it simple- They were straight up just bad at getting off the field in total last year.

And going back to this conversation, my biggest concern in this game is McDaniels and Maye shredding them on 3rd downs and moving the ball with relative ease

Sorry to nitpick, but the bolded is wrong. I think you’re trying to say that they were worst in third down defense. (From memory I think they were 31st? Close enough to last in any case.) But there are other ways to get off the field, most notably turnovers. The Bills D was great at getting off the field via TO last year, and simultaneously awful at getting off the field via third down stops. 
 

I won’t belabor the point, because from reading the thread I don’t disagree with you very much. (I’m somewhere between you and @Beck Water, probably a little closer to BW.) Our D was overall not good enough last year for championship aspirations. So far this year, it has looked similar. Traditionally, forcing TOs is very hard to carry over year-to-year, so that’s additional cause for concern. But there’s also some reason for hope/optimism. Babich should hopefully be getting better every game at this point. Likewise with our rookies who are playing. The one who isn’t - Hairston - might be ready to contribute by the playoffs. And we’ve been without two of our best defenders since Week 1, plus we might get something out of the PEDuo in a couple weeks. 
 

Will any of that add up to tangible improvement on defense this year? I don’t know. I hope so obviously, but I’m not counting on it. I tend to think that if we don’t see improvement by year end, the Bills should seriously look at what experienced DC options would be available this offseason. 

[BillsFan130]

12 minutes ago, Cash said:

Sorry to nitpick, but the bolded is wrong. I think you’re trying to say that they were worst in third down defense. (From memory I think they were 31st? Close enough to last in any case.) But there are other ways to get off the field, most notably turnovers. The Bills D was great at getting off the field via TO last year, and simultaneously awful at getting off the field via third down stops. 
 

I won’t belabor the point, because from reading the thread I don’t disagree with you very much. (I’m somewhere between you and @Beck Water, probably a little closer to BW.) Our D was overall not good enough last year for championship aspirations. So far this year, it has looked similar. Traditionally, forcing TOs is very hard to carry over year-to-year, so that’s additional cause for concern. But there’s also some reason for hope/optimism. Babich should hopefully be getting better every game at this point. Likewise with our rookies who are playing. The one who isn’t - Hairston - might be ready to contribute by the playoffs. And we’ve been without two of our best defenders since Week 1, plus we might get something out of the PEDuo in a couple weeks. 
 

Will any of that add up to tangible improvement on defense this year? I don’t know. I hope so obviously, but I’m not counting on it. I tend to think that if we don’t see improvement by year end, the Bills should seriously look at what experienced DC options would be available this offseason. 

29th in 3rd downs and 25th in 1st downs allowed. Those are the main two stats when it comes to measuring them getting off the field. It was bad.

 

Turnovers are a different conversation. They are splash /big plays, and yes they were great at it.

Edited yesterday at 02:48 AM by BillsFan130

[Low Positive]

Bills can make this week wicked bad in Boston.

[buffaloboyinATL]

3 hours ago, 50yrpatsfan said:

McDaniels is a 3x SB winning OC, plus a 4th SB where the Pats had 600 yards of offense and they lost. He's tied with Andy Reid as the most prolific OC in the game.

I mean, Eric Bienemy was theoretically a great OC too, but we all know who the real brain behind the operation was. 
 

Let’s see McDaniels prove he can do it without Belichick first, before we anoint him. 

[YattaOkasan]

7 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think I'm about to where I'll give up, but riddle me this: where did the Bills rank for # of defensive plays?  TOP?

 

Yes, it would certainly be concerning if Maye and the Pats shredded the Bills on 3rd downs and moved the ball with relative ease

EPA per play is a good metric. Bills were 12th (20th this year but still working off that ravens mess). Right in the big mess of average. Feels about right and pretty good for a first time DC. Hoping we get just above that this year. DVOA is also a pretty good holistic stat. 
edit: found dvoa rankings and 11th. Almost beyond the average mess and still good for first time DC

Edited 23 hours ago by YattaOkasan

[Beck Water]

29 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

EPA per play is a good metric. Bills were 12th (20th this year but still working off that ravens mess). Right in the big mess of average. Feels about right and pretty good for a first time DC. Hoping we get just above that this year. DVOA is also a pretty good holistic stat. 
edit: found dvoa rankings and 11th. Almost beyond the average mess and still good for first time DC

 

It's been my feeling that the Bills D last year was somewhere between its points ranking (11th and its yards ranking (17th).

Mid-tier, not as good as 2023 when they were 4th/9th.
This is consistent with EPA per play and DVOA that you reference.  I've heard others speak well of DVOA.

 

But not bottom of the league or bottom-third overall.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, boyst said:

Eason went to the Jets as a backup after his time in NE. #11 there. But was a backup to O'Brien. 

 

Tecmo super bowl, brah.

 

Berry was the coach when NE was a ***** show version of the Bengals back then.

 

I was also 5 in 1986...

Eason was before Grogan. Eason had his roster spot taken by Flutie. Lol

 

No, he wasn't.  Grogan was with NE for 15 years - 1975 to 1990, started his first 6 years then remained as a backup.

Eason started in NE from 1984 to 1986

 

Fun backstory: I don't know this kind of stuff generally, but I had the chance to see a one-man play called "Runt of the Litter" by former NFL safety Bo Eason, Tony's younger brother, which was loosely based on his experiences growing up then going to college and making it to the pro's, as the less innately gifted, harder working "runt".  So I got interested and researched them a bit.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

No, he wasn't.  Grogan was with NE for 15 years - 1975 to 1990, started his first 6 years then remained as a backup.

Eason started in NE from 1984 to 1986

 

Fun backstory: I don't know this kind of stuff generally, but I had the chance to see a one-man play called "Runt of the Litter" by former NFL safety Bo Eason, Tony's younger brother, which was loosely based on his experiences growing up then going to college and making it to the pro's, as the less innately gifted, harder working "runt".  So I got interested and researched them a bit.

Leave it to you to pull out one man show tidbits

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, 50yrpatsfan said:

McDaniels is a 3x SB winning OC, plus a 4th SB where the Pats had 600 yards of offense and they lost. He's tied with Andy Reid as the most prolific OC in the game.

 

Uh, huh.  And who was the QB and the HC during those wins?

 

It's kind of funny you mention McDaniels as "tied for Andy Reid as the most prolific OC in the game" when in fact, Andy Reid was never an OC in the NFL!  He was tight ends coach/QB coach in GB when he was hired as HC in Philly.

 

Yet Reid is credited as the offensive mind that crafted and refined the Philly offense, and the KC offense, as HC.  

Many would say the same about Belichick, who was famous as a micro-manager of his assistants.

I don't know, so I don't mind giving McDaniels some credit for the Patriots offense, which was strong when he left for Denver/Stl and strong when he came back.

But it's only fair to point out his mixed record as an offensive architect and QB developer with other teams. 
 

14 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Leave it to you to pull out one man show tidbits

 

That play was funny AF and poignant, too.  It clearly took a lot out of Eason to do it, but it's a shame it's not a movie or still running somewhere.  Maybe not enough football fans who want to attend plays?

Edited 23 hours ago by Beck Water

[Scott7975]

11 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Josh McDaniels is a meathead too. They got a whole collection. What is the collective noun for meatheads? 

 

Gronk

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Uh, huh.  And who was the QB and the HC during those wins?

 

It's kind of funny you mention McDaniels as "tied for Andy Reid as the most prolific OC in the game" when in fact, Andy Reid was never an OC in the NFL!  He was tight ends coach/QB coach in GB when he was hired as HC in Philly.

 

Yet Reid is credited as the offensive mind that crafted and refined the Philly offense, and the KC offense, as HC.  

Many would say the same about Belichick, who was famous as a micro-manager of his assistants.

I don't know, so I don't mind giving McDaniels some credit for the Patriots offense, which was strong when he left for Denver/Stl and strong when he came back.

But it's only fair to point out his mixed record as an offensive architect and QB developer with other teams. 

 

That play was funny AF and poignant, too.  It clearly took a lot out of Eason to do it, but it's a shame it's not a movie or still running somewhere.

 

I know an independent filmmaker maybe I could pitch a movie lol do you want a cameo 😁

 

It sounds interesting

Edited 23 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, bills742 said:

 

 

Sounds like if we don't get Milano/Oliver back this week that we will probably get them back next week.

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Steptide said:

I'm really curious, with the pats run defense being the best in the league (granted they haven't really played anyone great) if Brady will stick to trying to run the ball. I feel like this game could well be our first loss but also it shouldn't be. The bills are the much better team, and if we do lose, I feel like it's gonna be from frustrating offensive play calling 

 

I don't know why Brady wouldn't run the ball and make NE prove they can stop it.  Like I said elsewhere, Carolina rang up 129 yds rushing, from 3 backs, without any long runs.  They just got piled into a hole in the first half by special teams miscues and had to get away from it.

 

The Dolphins are like 31st for attempts and 27th for yards, pretty bad run game.  The Steelers are 23 for attempts, 31st for yards, bad run game.  The Raiders are middle of the pack, 15th for yards - I don't know, maybe NE stifled them or maybe they weren't trying to run much - racked up 362 yds passing in a close loss.

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I bit the bullet on Tuesday and watched every long run the Saints had. The common denominator was the DTs getting pushed wide. Then once the RB or QB got to the second level, there was a missed solo tackle. 

 

I maintain my position that the Bills biggest problem on defense is missed tackles. I remember McDs first few years and the reason bend but don't break worked so well was the guys swarmed the ball fast and made the tackle.