2018* QB Draft

[BillsFanForever19]

58 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

No homerism involved. I truly & honestly believe if Allen retired at the end of this season, he would be a HOFer. I feel like he revolutionized the position and his numbers are just too good. If Sterling Sharpe can get in then Allen definitely can. 

 

Sterling Sharpe got in.... as a "Seniors" finalist, 30 years after he retired. In large part bc his brother kept his name relevant by pushing for it in the media for 20 years.

 

I don't agree with that opinion about Josh making the Hall of Fame if he retired after this season. There are a grand total of 2 Quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame that played in the Super Bowl era and didn't play in a Super Bowl. Dan Fouts and Warren Moon - and each of them played 15+ years in the NFL.

 

No bigger fan of Josh than me. And again, I think if he continues on the trajectory he's on and he plays for a long time - he'll make it. But after just 8 seasons and no Conference or Super Bowl Championship? I don't see it. If he did, it would probably be a long wait like Sharpe.

Edited September 25 by BillsFanForever19

[skibum]

14 hours ago, mbs said:

With the possible exception of Allen/Elway, and maybe a push for Lamar/Marino (I still take Marino,) 1983 was much better in each of these matchups. The last comp only because Rosen was a cavalcade of awful.

Yeah, I'm kind of projecting out to what seems likely to happen for the second half of the 2018 class' careers. Obviously they are lacking credentials compared to '83, but I think when it's all said and done it will be a pretty tight contest. 

[djp14150]

19 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

2020 was a pretty good year:
Burrow

Tagovailoa

Herbert

Love 

Hurts.  

 

All starters with Hurts winning a Super Bowl & Burrow playing in one.  Tua is the weakest link and he's still tons better than the 5th QB in either 2018 or 1983.  

 

19 hours ago, skibum said:

2018 vs. 1983: Pretty equal if you ask me!

 

Allen - Elway

Lamar - Marino (not terms of playing style, but as in talent vs. results)

Baker - Kelly

Darnold - Ken O'Brien

Rudolph - Tony Eason

Rosen - Todd Blackledge

 

last year will be one to watch with

 

Chi- Williams

wAs- daniels

Pats-maye 

Broncos-Nix

vikings- McCarthy

Falcons-Penix

Rattler-Saints 5 th round

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Sterling Sharpe got in.... as a "Seniors" finalist, 30 years after he retired. In large part bc his brother kept his name relevant by pushing for it in the media for 20 years.

 

I don't agree with that opinion about Josh making the Hall of Fame if he retired after this season. There are a grand total of 2 Quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame that played in the Super Bowl era and didn't play in a Super Bowl. Dan Fouts and Warren Moon - and each of them played 15+ years in the NFL.

 

No bigger fan of Josh than me. And again, I think if he continues on the trajectory he's on and he plays for a long time - he'll make it. But after just 8 seasons and no Conference or Super Bowl Championship? I don't see it. If he did, it would probably be a long wait like Sharpe.

Lamar has a far better chance than Josh to make it if they both retired tomorrow.

 

3x AP1, 2x MVP, and has the career high passer rating in league history.

[Kirby Jackson]

The interesting thing about the 2018 class is that, a lot of us wanted to wait for the 2018 class even before the 2017 draft. It was thought of as one of the greatest classes ever a year in advance. It is like the 2027 WR class looks like. Others like@GunnerBill and @thebandit27 wanted to make a move on 2017. To Bandit’s credit he was ALL IN on Mahomes before people were even talking about him as a potential 1st rounder. It would probably be an interesting look in the archives to pull up the conversations that we were having back then about the Bills finding their QB of the future.

[The Jokeman]

9 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

What's wild is that Cleveland had their pick of any of those top 4 and now they're starting Joe Flacco while the Big Four are thriving for other teams. That's got to sting. Same thing for the Jets to a lesser extent.

Yeah imagine had they taken Saquon 1st overall and Josh 4th overall. It could have been one of best offenses ever assuming they were able to develop Josh. I'd say they could since Baker was on his way before he played himself through his injury which eventually made them part ways with him. 

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Sterling Sharpe got in.... as a "Seniors" finalist, 30 years after he retired. In large part bc his brother kept his name relevant by pushing for it in the media for 20 years.

 

I don't agree with that opinion about Josh making the Hall of Fame if he retired after this season. There are a grand total of 2 Quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame that played in the Super Bowl era and didn't play in a Super Bowl. Dan Fouts and Warren Moon - and each of them played 15+ years in the NFL.

 

No bigger fan of Josh than me. And again, I think if he continues on the trajectory he's on and he plays for a long time - he'll make it. But after just 8 seasons and no Conference or Super Bowl Championship? I don't see it. If he did, it would probably be a long wait like Sharpe.

Sterling's issue was his playing career got cut short. When he was playing he was in the discussion as best WR at the time. Similar to Terrell Davis except he didn't have the rings.  

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The interesting thing about the 2018 class is that, a lot of us wanted to wait for the 2018 class even before the 2017 draft. It was thought of as one of the greatest classes ever a year in advance. It is like the 2027 WR class looks like. Others like@GunnerBill and @thebandit27 wanted to make a move on 2017. To Bandit’s credit he was ALL IN on Mahomes before people were even talking about him as a potential 1st rounder. It would probably be an interesting look in the archives to pull up the conversations that we were having back then about the Bills finding their QB of the future.

 

I am fine the Bills waiting on receiver in round 1 in 2026 as long as they really attack it in 2027. And that might mean being willing to go right up the draft board. The sort of move I know you advocated in the 2024 draft. 

[boyst]

20 hours ago, skibum said:

2018 vs. 1983: Pretty equal if you ask me!

 

Allen - Elway

Lamar - Marino (not terms of playing style, but as in talent vs. results)

Baker - Kelly

Darnold - Ken O'Brien

Rudolph - Tony Eason

Rosen - Todd Blackledge

Forgot Mike White.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am fine the Bills waiting on receiver in round 1 in 2026 as long as they really attack it in 2027. And that might mean being willing to go right up the draft board. The sort of move I know you advocated in the 2024 draft. 

Yep. I think that they can add and subtract a body or 2 this offseason. Maybe take a mid round flyer on a toolsy prospect without the production. They can get another FA in the Palmer/Samuel tier to be in the rotation. In 2027, you look for the alpha. I’m not opposed, at all, to dealing our 1st this year for another the following year. If things fall right, you could land the guy on a rookie deal.

Edited September 25 by Kirby Jackson

[LarryMadman]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Lamar has a far better chance than Josh to make it if they both retired tomorrow.

 

3x AP1, 2x MVP, and has the career high passer rating in league history.

Disagree 100% 

 

Led the league with 40+ TDs for 5 straight years, best QB ever in playoffs stats, nah Josh is better with better numbers!

[transient]

21 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That was 2018. 2017 was Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson.

I mean... Mahomes and Watson are each historic in their own ways. 🤷‍♂️

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Crazy how much different the production value and war rooms have changed since then!! 

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Disagree 100% 

 

Led the league with 40+ TDs for 5 straight years, best QB ever in playoffs stats, nah Josh is better with better numbers!

It’s very nice, but thats not gonna get him in the hall. 

[LarryMadman]

27 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It’s very nice, but thats not gonna get him in the hall. 

Lol, so Lamars claim to fame if stats dont count is 2 MVPs, one of which he should have not won vs Joshs 1 MVP. 

 

There is not one thing out there Lamar does better than Josh, everybody knows it, not a GM in the league would take Lamar over Josh given the choice.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yep. I think that they can add and subtract a body or 2 this offseason. Maybe take a mid round flyer on a too lay prospect without the production. They can get another FA in the Palmer/Samuel tier to be in the rotation. In 2027, you look for the alpha. I’m not opposed, at all, to dealing our 1st this year for another the following year. If things fall right, you could land the guy on a rookie deal.

 

Yep, I'm not saying don't try and add a receiver at all in the draft in 2026 (a one trick pony outside, speed guy in rounds 2-4 I still think could add value to this team), but given what the 2027 class looks like it could be I'm fine if they go somewhere else in round one, or even trade out of round one for some ammo next year. There could be 6 or 7 studs in that 2027 first round. 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

25 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Lol, so Lamars claim to fame if stats dont count is 2 MVPs, one of which he should have not won vs Joshs 1 MVP. 

 

There is not one thing out there Lamar does better than Josh, everybody knows it, not a GM in the league would take Lamar over Josh given the choice.

I think that they both get in. I don’t want to speak for @FireChans but I think that his point is, “if neither player plays another game, Lamar gets in. Josh may or may not get in.” I’m not sure that is even arguable. While I agree that Josh is the better player, Lamar has a better HOF resume at this point. 

Edited September 25 by Kirby Jackson

[FireChans]

40 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Lol, so Lamars claim to fame if stats dont count is 2 MVPs, one of which he should have not won vs Joshs 1 MVP. 

 

There is not one thing out there Lamar does better than Josh, everybody knows it, not a GM in the league would take Lamar over Josh given the choice.

The hall doesn’t care about who “should’ve won MVP.” It’s not the GMs who vote. 

 

The résumés are the résumés at this point. There are no two time MVP QBs not in the hall. I think Lamar has the better case to make the hall today, despite him being, imo, slightly worse than Josh.

 

QBs better than Eli Manning will get passed on in the hall over him, because Eli has things on his resume that they do not. Kinda simple stuff really. 

Edited September 25 by FireChans

[boyst]

43 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Lol, so Lamars claim to fame if stats dont count is 2 MVPs, one of which he should have not won vs Joshs 1 MVP. 

 

There is not one thing out there Lamar does better than Josh, everybody knows it, not a GM in the league would take Lamar over Josh given the choice.

Lamar Jackson runs better than Josh, much faster with better agility, balance, and vision. Josh is the better QB. Jackson is the better football player.

[GoBills808]

51 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Lol, so Lamars claim to fame if stats dont count is 2 MVPs, one of which he should have not won vs Joshs 1 MVP. 

 

There is not one thing out there Lamar does better than Josh, everybody knows it, not a GM in the league would take Lamar over Josh given the choice.

it's just reality unfortunately

 

Lamar is a HoF lock. and unless we win a Super Bowl history will forget Allen and this iteration of the Bills 

[HerdMenatlity1]

This thread brings to mind how so many here say Beane is lucky he has Allen. "If Allen were injured, we would win 4-5 games." is what I read here. Well, duh. That would be the case for any team that loses a QB of that caliber. I believe Allan realizes how lucky he was that he wasn't drafted by the Jets, Browns, or Cardinals that year. It's not surprising to see these QBs perform better when they leave those crap franchises. Allen had a lot of things to work on when he entered the league, and he got selected by the perfect franchise to help him achieve what he has so far. Just imagine Josh with the Jets, Browns, or Cardinals early in his career. They would have ruined him. At least until he was able to get away from that franchise. Even then, he may have been too broken by those franchises. All this to say, great job, Beane. Keep it up!

On a side note: I feel if Beane was part of the 2017 draft, he would have drafted Mahomes, if he was available during our pick. JMO.