A few Random Thoughts After the Ravens Game

[Virgil]

9 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Unless @Virgil has stopped this is his topic.

I really like the collaborative nature of this this thread went, with everyone giving their own thoughts, in no particular order…😋.  
 

I really don’t see me writing my version (originally Bill’s) very much anymore.  I’m happy to see it live on in some capacity. 

[uninja]

22 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

1. This game has the feel of how the Chiefs winning their regular season games the past few years. Other teams view beating you as a measuring stick; they prepare and make you look bad in the process. But you have enough floor to hang around, then somewhere and somehow, someone makes a big play (or the opponent make a big mistake) and your superstar QB takes over and gets you to the finishing line.
2. A lot of media types said the Ravens beat themselves. I disagree. The Bills made plays to win the game themselves. THE critical turning point, the Henry fumble, was not something Henry was careless, or someone did not blocking for him. Oliver beat his man quick and punched the ball out. Of course, Allen was converting every opportunity at that point.
3. I still maintain Allen today is not the Allen we saw 2 years ago. There is a reason he didn't win MVP until last year. Mentally he's probably at the best of his career. In one of the post game interview, he said Ravens would be looking to stop big plays down field at both half time and the end of the game, so he would take shorter completions. In the past, he probably would say I'm still going to complete down field passes on you (and he did from time to time).
4. A big step forward for our outside receivers. Towards the end, Coleman and Palmer came up big when they were one-on-one and they got open for Allen. Good signs.
5. The tipped catch by Coleman is luck. However, Coleman played basketball at collegiate level. So he is used to the going after the rebound concept. Speaking of Coleman, there is report Coleman went to California catching passes from Allen off-season. It reminded me the story of Julian Edelman moved to Los Angeles specifically to be near Tom Brady, as in "whenever Brady wants to throw the ball, I'm there." 
6. Oliver, I'm surprised there is no interviews what-so-ever after the game for him. I rank him as co-stars of the game along with Allen.
7. McDermott said it's a coach's dream to have this come-back-from-behind game. I know why. First, you win. Second, team bonding from the get-go. Third, you evaluate players under stress situations against a tough opponent. There is a lot to be worked on, and a lot of roster decisions with a number of guy of IR, suspended guys in the next 4-6 weeks. You have several games to see who is taking the coaching and improve. Even in good plays, like the last field goal that has a clear blocking execution mistake but did not cost them. 

 

The Monken/Lamar/Henry offense has always given the Bills a ton of issues, I don't think the Bills defense is quite as bad as it looked on Sunday. There are very few teams that can play offense the way the Ravens do and it seems like after years of us completely having Roman's number on containing LJ8 the Ravens now have the horses and the scheme to put of serious numbers on this defense. We're 3-1 (I think?) against this version of the Ravens and all those wins have been nail biters.

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

We have been saying this for years. At some point the damn defense needs to play a hell of a lot better and do so Consistently.

 

Have we been saying it for years? Certainly in the big Chief and Bengal games in the post-season, sure. But the Bills regular season defense has been really good up until last season really. Even in games against supposed top offenses their defensive performance in the regular season was pretty solid. I think it took a bit of a step back in 2023, but then was just bad in 2024, and so far not good in 2025. 

 

I think it is mainly talent related. The defense is as untalented right now as certainly any time since 2018 and possibly even before that. And the secondary is unquestionably the worst of the McDermott era.

17 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I really like the collaborative nature of this this thread went, with everyone giving their own thoughts, in no particular order…😋.  
 

I really don’t see me writing my version (originally Bill’s) very much anymore.  I’m happy to see it live on in some capacity. 

 

And you took it on from @BillfromNYC didn't you from memory? Is this another torch passing?

1 hour ago, fergie's ire said:

Yeah, I think the narrative of a choke is a bit overblown, but also of it being a blowout up to that point.  In a game where both teams are scoring on almost every drive, I think of it like tennis.  Need to score a touchdown to hold serve.  Bills were broken twice in the first half, but the field goal at the end to match the Ravens' earlier field goal really helped. That way, even when they scored right out of the half, the Bills were really down a break.  Just needed one stop to tie.  That's the reason the Bills 4th quarter punt was so deflating.  They had NOT been able to break serve (much like the frustration Jessica Pegula felt in her semi-final) and it seemed they just weren't going to be able to.  The punt was like another break.  So, that was the first time the Bills were down more than one break...but then they broke the Ravens...and again...and again.

 

Tennis is exactly how I think of these battles with Ravens and Chiefs. I have used that analogy in my head for a few years now. 

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And you took it on from @BillfromNYC didn't you from memory? Is this another torch passing?

 

Yup, BillfromNYC is the OG.  I couldn't tag him in my response for some reason, and I can see where I said "Bill's" was ambiguous.  I was happy to take over for five years, but it started to feel like more of a responsibility than fun.  Plus, some posters just made the process a less fun over time.  I will probably put one together from time to time, but I'm happy to see it live on in some capacity.  

[colin]

So, i have a couple few hot takes here.

 

1.  offensive play calling in the first half was weak after the first drive.  too much small ball, trying to be too "complimentary"

2.  i thought bishop was OK ish, not good.  Rapp was the worst player on the field last night, and milano and bernard had for like 3 quarters the worst games of their professional careers.  rapp looked like he lacked the confidence to be physical vs the run, which is one of his best attributes normally.

3.  the offense got fire hot late (was decent though the first 3 quarts, above play calling comment not withstanding), but the d got fire hot late too.  after another two truckings (sandwiching a sick stop) in the 3rd, baltimore scored only once more on 4 drives, and that was on a horribly defended run by rapp after lamar performed a magic trick getting out of a would be 20 yard loss sack on 3rd and 10.  the fumble by henry was all oliver91 destroying the play and having full stance and balance while engaging henry, which did on that sick stop i mentioned above as well (where he man handled henry in the backfield and big daddied him).  it was a like 10 yard loss before the ball came out, after stuffing prior ravens plays.

 

homer fan read on this:

i've been a card carrying member of the mchaters club (mikey2times was a founding member, but he's sort of abandoned the movement, i might have to ship him some hateraid).  i've criticized his scheme and particularly the playoff habit of over complicating and turning our d into a slow leaking sieve in the playoffs.  this game, while a disgusting defensive performance overall, was simply not that.  the d was aggressive and ran hard for all 60 minutes, and just got burned with horrible play in the gut (lbs and safeties were just mistake prone the whole first 3 quarters).  they doubled down on it late, and got the stops and turnovers and big negative plays (almost had another that would have been a stop except for the fact that lamar jackson is lamar jackson).  there is a part of me that wanted baltimore to go for it on that 4th down, because the d was a fire breathing pack of disgusting savages in that moment who woulda shot up the pitch and forced jackson to make a play that he might not have been physically capable of making given he had a cramp and just got crushed on the last play.

if you recall allen's first or second year, we played baltimore in baltimore week 1, and i forget who at home game 2.  game 1 we got run and gunned out of the building, and the first half of game 2 we were just as bad, and that gutless corner retired at half time.  for every game after that, we were 1 or 2 in points and yards on D.  allen was a wild child and turned the ball over a lot and we had lots of putrid talent on O, making the d's job harder.  i think we had one huge let down game where we got run out of the building (was it new orleans?) but other than that the d kept is around in most every game.

this game felt like those one and a half games to me, except it was concentrated into three quarters.  for all of the disgusting play and mistakes and getting out coached with the ball being snapped while we were figuring out our fake coverage look forcing bishop to blitz from the 3rd row, they kept hungry and played green light d.  i think they are gonna stick to this barbarian approach on d and just accept the mistakes that happen in exchange for the tunrovers and big negative plays and big pressure it puts on opponents.

 

if baltimore up 40-25 with half a coffee break left in the game folded from that pressure, then any team in the nfl can be made to fold, especially when we get our rookie CB and steroid heroes back.

[PoundingDog]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think it took a bit of a step back in 2023, but then was just bad in 2024, and so far not good in 2025. 

 

I think it is mainly talent related.

It coincides with Babich taking over as a D coordinator. I'm not convinced is all about talent related - how many talent on D we lost comparing 2023 to 2024? Yes Poyer but was Poyer's performance in Miami would make that much a difference in Buffalo? I still don't know Babich is the RIGHT answer yet. McDermott continued changing his defensive staff by bringing in Ryan Nielsen and Mike Pellegrino this year by the way.

[julian]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

He was a very good throw. However, most NFL QBs should be able to make that throw. It was more of a touch and accuracy throw. More than 3 or 4 NFL QBs can make that throw. Nevertheless, under the circumstances it was elite execution of by QB and WR. 

Most NFL QBs might pull that off in practise, maybe, but the reality is most QBs can’t or don’t even attempt that throw in actual gameplay, and certainly not in crunch time against that level of competition.

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, julian said:

Most NFL QBs might pull that off in practise, maybe, but the reality is most QBs can’t or don’t even attempt that throw in actual gameplay, and certainly not in crunch time against that level of competition.

QBs don't or won't make that throw not because they can't make the throw. They don't make that throw because it's a low percentage pass. A high risk pass. It requires the WR to make a precise route and the QB to be accurate and fit the ball into a window. 

 

But to imply a NFL QB can't make that pass is silly. The top 10 QBs will make that pass every time even under those circumstances. That's what makes them top 10. Most coaches probably don't make that call though. I'm sure the Bills end maybe Allen saw that the Ravens could be beat on that type of play. 

 

Like I said previously, it was great execution by the Bills offense. But let's curtail your original premise. 

[DrDawkinstein]

35 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

It coincides with Babich taking over as a D coordinator. I'm not convinced is all about talent related - how many talent on D we lost comparing 2023 to 2024? Yes Poyer but was Poyer's performance in Miami would make that much a difference in Buffalo? I still don't know Babich is the RIGHT answer yet. McDermott continued changing his defensive staff by bringing in Ryan Nielsen and Mike Pellegrino this year by the way.

 

Yeah, the questions on Babich are starting to mount and it's only been one week.

 

I get that the Ravens have great talent on Offense, but it wasnt just about a DB not being able to tackle Henry.

 

The Ravens had a good gameplan for our Defense, lining up fast and snapping the ball quickly while the Bills did their usual "disguise the Defence, Bernard making calls, Rapp making coverage calls" and trapped us out of place and uninformed for most of the game.

 

And the worst part is, we never got out of it. There was no contingency plan on what to do if teams go fast, and no adjustments made.

 

Case in point: On the Bishop long blitz, he was either coached to blitz even if they catch us out of place, or not coached on what to do differently.

 

Bobby better get it together.

[GunnerBill]

40 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

It coincides with Babich taking over as a D coordinator. I'm not convinced is all about talent related - how many talent on D we lost comparing 2023 to 2024? Yes Poyer but was Poyer's performance in Miami would make that much a difference in Buffalo? I still don't know Babich is the RIGHT answer yet. McDermott continued changing his defensive staff by bringing in Ryan Nielsen and Mike Pellegrino this year by the way.

 

Yea I am not convinced on Babich either. We had definitely taken a small step back 2022 to 2023, the McDermott calling the defense experiment was a disaster until about week 11 although they ended strong. But no doubt 2024 was worse. 

 

From 2023 to 2024 they did have Douglas regress quickly, Poyer depart, DQ regressed... they had injuries to Taron, Milano and Bernard in the first half of the year. I do think the talent had bit by bit been decreasing on that side. But sure the coaching hasn't been as good either. That is not a super big surprise to me as the only Leslie Frazier truther left on planet earth 😆.

[Royale with Cheese]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, the questions on Babich are starting to mount and it's only been one week.

 

I get that the Ravens have great talent on Offense, but it wasnt just about a DB not being able to tackle Henry.

 

The Ravens had a good gameplan for our Defense, lining up fast and snapping the ball quickly while the Bills did their usual "disguise the Defence, Bernard making calls, Rapp making coverage calls" and trapped us out of place and uninformed for most of the game.

 

And the worst part is, we never got out of it. There was no contingency plan on what to do if teams go fast, and no adjustments made.

 

Case in point: On the Bishop long blitz, he was either coached to blitz even if they catch us out of place, or not coached on what to do differently.

 

Bobby better get it together.

 

Sal C was on WGR this morning and basically stated the Raven's quick snapped many times, including Bishop's blitz which is why he was so late.  
He's supposed to walk up and then go after the snap but he was still in the 3rd level at that time.

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Sal C was on WGR this morning and basically stated the Raven's quick snapped many times, including Bishop's blitz which is why he was so late.  
He's supposed to walk up and then go after the snap but he was still in the 3rd level at that time.

 

Right. Babich needs to address that. Crazy that he didnt have a contingency plan in place already. Everyone was caught out of position in our "disguise" all night, it was just highlighted on the Bishop play.

 

Or maybe Babich has addressed it and his plan is "just run the play as called no matter where you are", and if that's then case we may have Dorsey 2.0 on our hands.

 

 

Edited September 10 by DrDawkinstein

[newcam2012]

50 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, the questions on Babich are starting to mount and it's only been one week.

 

I get that the Ravens have great talent on Offense, but it wasnt just about a DB not being able to tackle Henry.

 

The Ravens had a good gameplan for our Defense, lining up fast and snapping the ball quickly while the Bills did their usual "disguise the Defence, Bernard making calls, Rapp making coverage calls" and trapped us out of place and uninformed for most of the game.

 

And the worst part is, we never got out of it. There was no contingency plan on what to do if teams go fast, and no adjustments made.

 

Case in point: On the Bishop long blitz, he was either coached to blitz even if they catch us out of place, or not coached on what to do differently.

 

Bobby better get it together.

Agree, I like the coaches rhetoric and attitude. However, his defense has a lot to prove. Lots of youngsters, missing pieces, and new coaches. It's week 1. The defense has time to improve but who knows if it will. The Ravens are the absolute worst matchup for the Bills D. I think the defense is a work in progress. Hopefully, by playoff time they are healthy and formidable. In the end, I think it's Allen and the offense that will win us most games. 

 

51 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I am not convinced on Babich either. We had definitely taken a small step back 2022 to 2023, the McDermott calling the defense experiment was a disaster until about week 11 although they ended strong. But no doubt 2024 was worse. 

 

From 2023 to 2024 they did have Douglas regress quickly, Poyer depart, DQ regressed... they had injuries to Taron, Milano and Bernard in the first half of the year. I do think the talent had bit by bit been decreasing on that side. But sure the coaching hasn't been as good either. That is not a super big surprise to me as the only Leslie Frazier truther left on planet earth 😆.

I'm a bit concerned about Bernard. I don't think he's shown much after his breakout season. Maybe I'm wrong. 

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

 

I'm a bit concerned about Bernard. I don't think he's shown much after his breakout season. Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

No, I agree with you. It was the extension I liked the least in the offseason. I'd have had him play out his final year. He was really poor on Sunday.

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Have we been saying it for years? Certainly in the big Chief and Bengal games in the post-season, sure. But the Bills regular season defense has been really good up until last season really. Even in games against supposed top offenses their defensive performance in the regular season was pretty solid. I think it took a bit of a step back in 2023, but then was just bad in 2024, and so far not good in 2025. 

 

I think it is mainly talent related. The defense is as untalented right now as certainly any time since 2018 and possibly even before that. And the secondary is unquestionably the worst of the McDermott era

I’m basically one more bad defensive season away from calling McD a “Hyde, Poyer, White” merchant.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I’m basically one more bad defensive season away from calling McD a “Hyde, Poyer, White” merchant.

 

I wouldn't go that far but I do think his reputation as a DB whisperer has taken a serious hit. The Bills safety play is desperate.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wouldn't go that far but I do think his reputation as a DB whisperer has taken a serious hit. The Bills safety play is desperate.

To me, McD had an elite 2017 offseason.

 

Found 4 cornerstone defensive players. Had some great defenses.
 

Now 8 years later. Half gone, the other half shells of themselves. And the defense kinda sucks.

 

Is this a lesser version of the Seahawks being nasty because they acquired the whole LoB at the same time, and then when they all got old, their defenses fell apart? Was their DC some secret genius or did he just have great players?

[Coach Tuesday]

37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No, I agree with you. It was the extension I liked the least in the offseason. I'd have had him play out his final year. He was really poor on Sunday.

They didn’t just extend him they made him co-captain with Josh.  They are all in on the guy.  

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Right. Babich needs to address that. Crazy that he didnt have a contingency plan in place already. Everyone was caught out of position in our "disguise" all night, it was just highlighted on the Bishop play.

 

Or maybe Babich has addressed it and his plan is "just run the play as called no matter where you are", and if that's then case we may have Dorsey 2.0 on our hands.

 

 

Bishop should know better and adjust. Why blitz from where he was after the quick snap? He needed to adjust his assignment and drop into coverage. 

[BillsVet]

24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

To me, McD had an elite 2017 offseason.

 

Found 4 cornerstone defensive players. Had some great defenses.
 

Now 8 years later. Half gone, the other half shells of themselves. And the defense kinda sucks.

 

Is this a lesser version of the Seahawks being nasty because they acquired the whole LoB at the same time, and then when they all got old, their defenses fell apart? Was their DC some secret genius or did he just have great players?

 

I compare this more to Rex's schemes in New York effectivity around 2009-10.  Those were more complicated to run, but needed the exact right players who had the smarts and physical ability.  

 

I think we're trending closer to that in Buffalo, except I don't see that McD's defensive scheme as so complex.  Still needs a certain kind of player, which he found in 2017 for the secondary.   

 

Huge win or not on Sunday night, we're still debating the philosophy the HC and GM operate under.  As in, whether a highly-resourced defense, particularly at DL combined with an offense featuring Josh, a very good OL, and an average-ish skilled talent group can win a SB.  Buffalo's 2025 will answer that question.