Athletic Article: The bust files: How NFL teams break young quarterbacks

[BillsShredder83]

Article

 

Quote

Seven quarters into his own career, Manning had thrown six interceptions and was nervously sneaking glances at his coach on the sideline, worried he was about to get benched. “You’re dying out there,” he says. Another Hall of Famer, Troy Aikman, remains convinced his days in Dallas would have been numbered had the Cowboys not changed offensive coordinators after his first two seasons.

 

But that’s the job: In no other American enterprise is the face of an organization routinely a 21- or 22- or 23-year-old fresh out of school, thrust into a new city with new bosses and new colleagues and tasked with flipping their fortunes in a little under two years.

 

“Take all that, then pour some gasoline on it,” says Andrew Luck, the 2012 top pick. “That’s the day-to-day, moment-to-moment intensity of what it actually feels like.”

 

And that’s coming from a prospect who entered the league as polished as any. Luck’s rookie season in Indianapolis was ridiculous: he led a two-win Colts team from the year before to 11 victories and a playoff berth while head coach Chuck Pagano spent most of the season in the hospital fighting leukemia. Behind closed doors, Luck says, he could barely keep his head above water.

 

“Andrew Luck admitting that,” says Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell, “validates everything I’ve ever thought about the quarterback position.”

 

 

Now THIIIIS is how you do journalism here. I stole and gave this its own post out of the Ty Dunne thread, because it was such an interesting read, deserving its own attention.

 

First thing that jumped out, was how well buffalo managed to follow what this article laid out, with Josh. I mean damn, I have almost no doubt the Jets would've ruined Josh. Even before reading this I always suspected it, but especially after reading this.

 

 

 

Think about it. No team picking a qb at the top of the board, could be picking the wrong guy as often as s they do! Even if you were actively trying to pick the wrong prospect on purpose... you'd eventually pick a good one. 

 

 

 

Arians mentions 'scars' its too bad those seem to be permanent, because we'd have a lot better parody in the NFL 'dumpster diving' for QB's behind teams like Chi, NYJ, and CLE. 

 

 

 

Last thing I noticed, Kevin O'Connell 's comments make a lot more sense seeing JJ McCarthy last night! I was thinking dudes on the verge of getting pulled. That pick 6 he stared down the WHOLE way, was making some awful reads & decisions. 

 

 

 

I dunno what that staff told JJ at halftime and after that rep... but dang he settled in nicely for end of 3rd and 4th quarter.

 

 

 

Admittedly I was thinking BUST at half time... I thought dang, they got no evals on him from last season, and here they are starting year2 & season 1, with the next Zack Wilson. That's its going to take them an extra year to be able to move on BECAUSE of his injury.

 

 

 

I was wrong last night, and falling to the same mistakes discussed in article. Really great piece I enjoyed the hell out of!!!

 

Edited September 9 by BillsShredder83

[Johnnycage46]

I will say that now that we have Allen, I'm glad that other teams are destroying their young QBs careers. We don't need anymore competition until we get our first SB. Selfish, I know.

[ColoradoBills]

16 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

First thing that jumped out, was how well buffalo managed to follow what this article laid out, with Josh. I mean damn, I have almost no doubt the Jets would've ruined Josh. Even before reading this I always suspected it, but especially after reading this.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[Don Otreply]

The NFL has been ruining QBs for a long time, from what I see most teams don’t appear to have a viable plan to bring their high value QB picks along in a structured way to succeed, the league churns through QBs like fans killing cases of beer, lol, 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Article

 

 

Now THIIIIS is how you do journalism here. I stole and gave this its own post out of the Ty Dunne thread, because it was such an interesting read, deserving its own attention.

 

First thing that jumped out, was how well buffalo managed to follow what this article laid out, with Josh. I mean damn, I have almost no doubt the Jets would've ruined Josh. Even before reading this I always suspected it, but especially after reading this.

 

 

 

Think about it. No team picking a qb at the top of the board, could be picking the wrong guy as often as s they do! Even if you were actively trying to pick the wrong prospect on purpose... you'd eventually pick a good one. 

 

 

 

Arians mentions 'scars' its too bad those seem to be permanent, because we'd have a lot better parody in the NFL 'dumpster diving' for QB's behind teams like Chi, NYJ, and CLE. 

 

 

 

Last thing I noticed, Kevin O'Connell 's comments make a lot more sense seeing JJ McCarthy last night! I was thinking dudes on the verge of getting pulled. That pick 6 he stared down the WHOLE way, was making some awful reads & decisions. 

 

 

 

I dunno what that staff told JJ at halftime and after that rep... but dang he settled in nicely for end of 3rd and 4th quarter.

 

 

 

Admittedly I was thinking BUST at half time... I thought dang, they got no evals on him from last season, and here they are starting year2 & season 1, with the next Zack Wilson. That's its going to take them an extra year to be able to move on BECAUSE of his injury.

 

 

 

I was wrong last night, and falling to the same mistakes discussed in article. Really great piece I enjoyed the hell out of!!!

 

 

No surprise why it has become so common to see former early round "busts" re-ignite their careers 5-6+ years later once they gain maturity, better professional habits, experience and the game slows down for them.  Sam Darnold, Geno Smith, Baker Mayfield, etc...

 

And sometimes, they have to be put under good coaching to bring it out of them which was likely lacking on their previous teams since those teams are dreadful usually when drafting QBs high in the draft.

 

Sometimes the players just take a little longer to become what they are capable of, but teams aren't willing to wait.

Edited September 9 by Big Turk

[Low Positive]

49 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

The NFL has been ruining QBs for a long time, from what I see most teams don’t appear to have a viable plan to bring their high value QB picks along in a structured way to succeed, the league churns through QBs like fans killing cases of beer, lol, 

Because most of the time the top prospects get picked by the dumpster fire organizations that get the top picks year after year. 

[Don Otreply]

6 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Because most of the time the top prospects get picked by the dumpster fire organizations that get the top picks year after year. 

There is that, lol, but all the more reason for those crappy teams to at least attempt to have a structure in place, 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

There is that, lol, but all the more reason for those crappy teams to at least attempt to have a structure in place, 

The problem is that for so many of those organizations, the problem stems from one thing that can't be changed; involved, bad ownership. That's true of the Bears, Browns, Jags, Panthers, Jets, Titans, and Dolphins. It was true of the Redskins/Commanders, and towards the end Irsay got very involved in personnel decisions in Indy. We should know, as this was our problem for the better part of two decades. And it still could be if Beane and McDermott didn't have big enough personalities to get Terry to butt out of football decisions in Buffalo.

[MJS]

This is why coaching is so important. Coaches set the tone for the entire organization. Having the patience to develop a QB comes directly from the head coach. McDermott had already bought himself job security by breaking the playoff drought, so he had the patience to let Josh Allen develop, and built a strong defense with good leaders to keep them in games.

 

But Josh was pretty good out of the gate, in the grand scheme of things. He had lows in his rookie season, but he also had highs. And then he took the Bills to the playoffs in his second year. He was a functional QB. There was never really a time where it seemed like he was a bust or should be benched.

[corta765]

The three consistent themes forever with young QBs that turn into good QBs are this:

 

1. Time to learn and make mistakes with no fear of repercussion 

2. Building them a solid line to throw behind between years 1-3

3. Adding weapons that maximize their skill set in years 1-3

 

The first one teams regularly botch with ease. There is nothing wrong with letting a rookie get the live bullets and it is the only way they learn, but too many teams start a guy and expect by year 2 they should be fully grown. It is funny because for as many encouraging signs as Josh had it really was not until the last 6-7 games of 2019 you saw the maturation with his play and decision making. That 2019 home Pats game he truly cost us the game because he was so aggressive and superman instead of playing within himself... BUT it was a tremendous learning lesson. I remember Big Ben's first year they went 14-2 but he had some really shaky games and they let him play it out.

 

The second point so many young QBs fall into bad tendencies because they don't have time and the pressure overwhelms them. There is a laundry list of pretty talented QBs who got beaten to death and never got a chance to see what they could be because of it.

 

Final point I think to adding Beasley and Brown heading into 2019. They added a slot WR who could catch everything and give Josh an easy dump off threat while Brown he couldn't overthrow. Every QB has different strengths and weaknesses and the ability to enhance the good and limit the bad when their young helps so much. Lamar was very good with Greg Roman and they created an offense that allowed him to be comfy. Monken has helped take that to the next level and with Lamar older he is able to handle it also, same as Josh with Brady. 

 

For as easy as these sounds too many teams stray away quickly from them or they do not build a decent line and/or add weapons etc.. but go down the list of great QBs and these traits are almost always there. Green Bay has seemingly bucked the trend of bad QB play, but half of it has to stem from letting the guys just learn for a year or two before even putting them in something really unheard of in todays NFL>

[Low Positive]

6 minutes ago, corta765 said:

The three consistent themes forever with young QBs that turn into good QBs are this:

 

1. Time to learn and make mistakes with no fear of repercussion 

2. Building them a solid line to throw behind between years 1-3

3. Adding weapons that maximize their skill set in years 1-3

 

The first one teams regularly botch with ease. There is nothing wrong with letting a rookie get the live bullets and it is the only way they learn, but too many teams start a guy and expect by year 2 they should be fully grown. It is funny because for as many encouraging signs as Josh had it really was not until the last 6-7 games of 2019 you saw the maturation with his play and decision making. That 2019 home Pats game he truly cost us the game because he was so aggressive and superman instead of playing within himself... BUT it was a tremendous learning lesson. I remember Big Ben's first year they went 14-2 but he had some really shaky games and they let him play it out.

 

The second point so many young QBs fall into bad tendencies because they don't have time and the pressure overwhelms them. There is a laundry list of pretty talented QBs who got beaten to death and never got a chance to see what they could be because of it.

 

Final point I think to adding Beasley and Brown heading into 2019. They added a slot WR who could catch everything and give Josh an easy dump off threat while Brown he couldn't overthrow. Every QB has different strengths and weaknesses and the ability to enhance the good and limit the bad when their young helps so much. Lamar was very good with Greg Roman and they created an offense that allowed him to be comfy. Monken has helped take that to the next level and with Lamar older he is able to handle it also, same as Josh with Brady. 

 

For as easy as these sounds too many teams stray away quickly from them or they do not build a decent line and/or add weapons etc.. but go down the list of great QBs and these traits are almost always there. Green Bay has seemingly bucked the trend of bad QB play, but half of it has to stem from letting the guys just learn for a year or two before even putting them in something really unheard of in todays NFL>

Your first point requires a coach having enough job security to be confident that losing for a year won't cost him his highly-paid job. 

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Article

 

 

Now THIIIIS is how you do journalism here. I stole and gave this its own post out of the Ty Dunne thread, because it was such an interesting read, deserving its own attention.

 

First thing that jumped out, was how well buffalo managed to follow what this article laid out, with Josh. I mean damn, I have almost no doubt the Jets would've ruined Josh. Even before reading this I always suspected it, but especially after reading this.

 

 

 

Think about it. No team picking a qb at the top of the board, could be picking the wrong guy as often as s they do! Even if you were actively trying to pick the wrong prospect on purpose... you'd eventually pick a good one. 

 

 

 

Arians mentions 'scars' its too bad those seem to be permanent, because we'd have a lot better parody in the NFL 'dumpster diving' for QB's behind teams like Chi, NYJ, and CLE. 

 

 

 

Last thing I noticed, Kevin O'Connell 's comments make a lot more sense seeing JJ McCarthy last night! I was thinking dudes on the verge of getting pulled. That pick 6 he stared down the WHOLE way, was making some awful reads & decisions. 

 

 

 

I dunno what that staff told JJ at halftime and after that rep... but dang he settled in nicely for end of 3rd and 4th quarter.

 

 

 

Admittedly I was thinking BUST at half time... I thought dang, they got no evals on him from last season, and here they are starting year2 & season 1, with the next Zack Wilson. That's its going to take them an extra year to be able to move on BECAUSE of his injury.

 

 

 

I was wrong last night, and falling to the same mistakes discussed in article. Really great piece I enjoyed the hell out of!!!

 

And this is why it's ludicrous to think Tom Brady becomes the exact Tom Brady if he doesn't get Bill belichick's structure 

 

That's why it's crazy to think Patrick mahomes becomes the same Patrick mahomes with anybody besides Andy Reid 

 

And that shows you how good our organization is top to bottom in Buffalo because Josh Allen grew into a superstar

[corta765]

5 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Your first point requires a coach having enough job security to be confident that losing for a year won't cost him his highly-paid job. 

No disagreement there. I think org vs QB are different themes.

 

For orgs you need to be willing to have GM/Coach lock step, owner willing to take a bad year or two, a plan that you do not deviate from for the QB, and very big blinders to ignore the noise on the bad days.

[Billy Claude]

I didn't read the article (paywall), and I'm not saying that Zach Wilson was salvageable, but I don't think any quarterback including Allen would have succeeded given the situation they put Wilson in. I assume they discussed Wilson in the article, it's a case study in what not to do.

Edited September 9 by Billy Claude

[GaryPinC]

On 9/9/2025 at 3:25 PM, Buffalo716 said:

And this is why it's ludicrous to think Tom Brady becomes the exact Tom Brady if he doesn't get Bill belichick's structure 

 

That's why it's crazy to think Patrick mahomes becomes the same Patrick mahomes with anybody besides Andy Reid 

 

And that shows you how good our organization is top to bottom in Buffalo because Josh Allen grew into a superstar

😂  Come on.   Do you really believe Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, and Josh Allen don't become superstar quarterbacks if not for their particular coaches and organizations?

Who's the one being ludicrous and crazy?

 

I don't follow Mahomes closely enough, but Brady and Allen are/were both almost maniacal in their pursuit of greatness.  Josh is far more pleasant about it than Brady, but his teammates always caution how Josh is hyper-competitive.  If they had landed in a NY Jets situation, it would have slowed their career ascension but they would have either forced their way out or figured it out eventually.

 

I do believe bad coaching/organizations can break some quarterbacks, but not guys like these.  Just hold them back a bit.  Passion, vision, and leadership of the QB have to be factored in with their on-field skills.  Baker Mayfield is a great example of this.  The way the Browns chewed and spit him out would have broken less self-motivated QB's.  But he recovered nicely, even if he was never and will never (IMO) be in the top echelon of talented QBs.

 

Mahomes showed a great attention to mastering details of the game in college and made really intelligent decisions on the fly, even though TT was known for its system QB's.  I put a lot of faith in that, so felt strongly he would make it at the NFL level.  Reid is a best case scenario for that but hardly the only one.  Buffalo, for example, would have done great with Mahomes.

 

Not every QB is as self-motivated at the highest level as these guys, so to your (and the article's) point, it's crazy and ludicrous that organizations don't put together the plan, structure and flexibility to help these less self-motivated guys gain their confidence and ultimately succeed.

Edited September 10 by GaryPinC

[HOUSE]

The Jets are the worst

Mark San-Cheese

Gino Smith

Sam Darnold 

Justin Fields is next

 

[Mikey152]

I still remember a WEEI interview with Tom Brady where he spent a good 30 minutes talking about this exact thing...I still lived in New England, so it must be like 15 years ago now.

 

He was talking about guys like Vince Young and Alex Smith. For Vince Young, he said his legs were sort of a disservice to him in the long run, because his coaches in both college and the NFL wanted to win and encouraged him to make one read then run...and he never really learned how to be a passer. For Alex Smith, he talked about how in SF he had a different coordinator every season and how that would be impossible to learn in that situation. In NE, because they kept the same system he was able to recall gameplans from past seasons and apply them to the current one. He even talked about how they might go back to old playbooks from previous seasons as part of a weekly install if they thought it would work against their opponent, and that was only possible because of the continutity.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

😂  Come on.   Do you really believe Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, and Josh Allen don't become superstar quarterbacks if not for their particular coaches and organizations?

Who's the one being ludicrous and crazy?

 

I don't follow Mahomes closely enough, but Brady and Allen are/were both almost maniacal in their pursuit of greatness.  Josh is far more pleasant about it than Brady, but his teammates always caution how Josh is hyper-competitive.  If they had landed in a NY Jets situation, it would have slowed their career ascension but they would have either forced their way out or figured it out eventually.

 

I do believe bad coaching/organizations can break some quarterbacks, but not guys like these.  Just hold them back a bit.  Passion, vision, and leadership of the QB have to be factored in with their on-field skills.  Baker Mayfield is a great example of this.  The way the Browns chewed and spit him out would have broken less self-motivated QB's.  But he recovered nicely, even if he was never and will never (IMO) be in the top echelon of talented QBs.

 

Mahomes showed a great attention to mastering details of the game in college and made really intelligent decisions on the fly, even though TT was known for its system QB's.  I put a lot of faith in that, so felt strongly he would make it at the NFL level.  Reid is a best case scenario for that but hardly the only one.  Buffalo, for example, would have done great with Mahomes.

 

Not every QB is as self-motivated at the highest level as these guys, so to your (and the article's) point, it's crazy and ludicrous that organizations don't put together the plan, structure and flexibility to help these less self-motivated guys gain their confidence and ultimately succeed.

How I’d look at it is that teams can utterly destroy QBs, even top tier talents. Yes the makeup and personal qualities have allowed those like Brady, Mahomes, and Allen to become Supermen. But I don’t think that is inevitable; you can break a QB either through killing their motivation or steering them the wrong way. If they go too far learning wrong then their odds of success dwindles significantly. 
 

Josh Allen on the Jets likely flashes greatness for three years while struggling to find a groove and then is jettisoned as a backup candidate elsewhere. His inner- drive might save his career but he likely never reaches the Allen we know. Once he’s out of the Jets he won’t have the advantages of a young QB getting ample opportunity to learn and make mistakes because he’ll just be a backup “Hail Mary” idea. He’d likely become what Sam Darnold is; a reformed starter who could have been great but ends up falling short. Allen/Mahomes/Brady can work tirelessly but if the team doesn’t give them proper support it won’t matter.

 

[GaryPinC]

Timely to this discussion and interesting  because Daboll seemed to have been given a lot of credit for developing Allen:

https://thevikingage.com/daniel-jones-says-what-every-vikings-fan-knew-about-minnesota-coaching-staff

 

"Yeah I think just being around Kevin (O'Connell), being around Josh McCown, Grant Udinski
there. I learned a lot from them. The biggest thing I took away from there was the preparation and how detailed they were in the game plan, how much they prepare for certain looks, checks they had, motions to undress the defense. I mean every little thing they were going over they were walking through. It was very, very detailed, high level 'Here's what we're expecting. Here's what we're going to do to it' and the preparation, day-to-day throughout the week was really impressive to me."

“The biggest thing I took away from there was the preparation and how detailed they were in the game plan.”

- Former #Vikings QB Daniel Jones on his time in Minnesotapic.twitter.com

 

After a good performance against Miami by Jones, got to wonder if Daboll was really so instrumental in Allen's development?

 

[GaryPinC]

55 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

How I’d look at it is that teams can utterly destroy QBs, even top tier talents. Yes the makeup and personal qualities have allowed those like Brady, Mahomes, and Allen to become Supermen. But I don’t think that is inevitable; you can break a QB either through killing their motivation or steering them the wrong way. If they go too far learning wrong then their odds of success dwindles significantly. 
 

Josh Allen on the Jets likely flashes greatness for three years while struggling to find a groove and then is jettisoned as a backup candidate elsewhere. His inner- drive might save his career but he likely never reaches the Allen we know. Once he’s out of the Jets he won’t have the advantages of a young QB getting ample opportunity to learn and make mistakes because he’ll just be a backup “Hail Mary” idea. He’d likely become what Sam Darnold is; a reformed starter who could have been great but ends up falling short. Allen/Mahomes/Brady can work tirelessly but if the team doesn’t give them proper support it won’t matter.

 

I agree in general with what you're saying, but "top tier talents" is complex, encompassing more than just the physical.  I'd say a number of top drafted (top tier) QBs simply weren't good enough for different reasons. 

EJ Manuel simply was never good enough, whatever the reason.  He was inaccurate for starters.  Neither was Christian Hackenburg and Tim Tebow, just to name a few.  Some talented QB's simply aren't motivated or passionate enough.

 

But you take a QB with the mental and physical skillset and is supremely driven to succeed, they will find away well over 90% of the time I believe. 

 

I see it all the time at my job with aspiring physicians.  They plan, they volunteer, they seek out every possible opportunity to set up and help their future career and most of all getting the opportunities is their top priority and this passion is tested informally as part of their acceptance into med school, residency, etc.