A Different Vibe from McDermott

[VW82]

38 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Well that should be good, because the Bills had way more success in Man coverage than they did Zone against Lamar. 

 

Pretty sure Lamar was 12 of 12 against us in Zone & 6 of 13 against Man.

 

Might not be great against everyone, but it's certainly important in certain matches.

 

McD has done well vs. Lamar. It's his record vs. Mahomes/Reid in the playoffs that has been the issue. Until he gets that monkey off his back and slows those guys down, people will call for his head.

[BVBILLS]

Does Mc Clappy post here? Nobody hates him or Bean, but after this many tries, you have to start questioning if the team's leadership can get them over the hump. Bean is equally to blame.

 

IMO 13 seconds should have been a total house cleaning. The team was on fire that season with virtually NO injuries and would have easily won a SB. That was more of a choke than Music City Miracle.

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Totally worth it.

 

We're on year 9 with Josh. A ton of great plays and highlights, and great games, but no Lombardi yet.

 

If we had to bring in another coach to win the SB, but sacrifice the culture after, totally worth it.

 

Oh, Daquan Jones isnt having team dinners? Still won the Super Bowl

Conner McGovern isnt making everyone pizzas anymore? Still won the Super Bowl

 

Heck, if we won the Super Bowl, got through the parade, and then Josh announced he was retiring, we'd still be left with the best decade of our lives as Bills fans.

 

We missed out on Vrabel and Harbaugh so we're stuck hoping McD, the king of consistency, is somehow going to make a drastic change. But if I had to put money on it, I'd predict another let down due to weak coaching in the playoffs, and then McD fires Babich as the fall guy and then promotes from within to run the same crappy system in the same crappy way.

 

@DrDawkinstein what do you think of a less drastic, middle of the road compromise here.  I think we can all agree if nothing changes, we need to jump ship before its too late.  At the same time barring some crazy talented Coach shaking loose, its a Texas size gamble to hand over the reigns to a brand new unproven HC.  I feel like we're too 'pot committed', to use a poker term, to fold the hand right now and start over.

 

What about bringing in some type of advisory role, similar to what Bill Parcells has done for teams.  I'm not being specific to him, but dang theres g2 be a coach out there with an itch to feel involved, and/or exhausted with seeing elite playoff games from Allen, get flushed down the toilet.

 

I have a feeling McD is not good at delegating jobs/roles downwards... and isnt doing a sufficient job teaching his Coordinators & Room Coaches, how to prepare.  Thats a force multiplier.  Maybe a coach who doesn't know how to do that, isn't worthy of a top coaching role period, I dunno.  Is he juggling too many pots out of necessity? Or is it obsessive compulsive and he can't help himself.  There's not enough hours in the week or weeks in the season to handle that load.  Burnout is real, and its anti efficient.  Im surprised we haven't heard about McD going out and doing this on his own, even looking for mentorship at the higher coaching skills.  Is Andy Reid too competitive to give the guy a hand?  Who could fill that role well for Sean?

[Mikie2times]

10 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

My God, even a hamster would know that Josh Allen didn't do all of this on his own. It's depressing how obtuse these "fans" can be. 

Teams who have a QB that finishes the year with a QBR above 65 win about 70% of the games they play. Over 70 and it goes to almost 75%. This is over the last 20 or so years. Allen has done that every year outside of his rookie season. Partner that with facing a complete rag tag group of QB's and teams in the AFC east during this run.

 

This comment isn't to categorize either of these people that way. It's just an honest question based on your post.

 

If you surround an average GM and an average coach in the AFC east the last 5 years with Josh Allen what outcome would you expect? Would we not be divisional favorites every year? To me it's wild that anybody could land on that not being the case. 

[RoscoeParrish]

5 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

 

@DrDawkinstein what do you think of a less drastic, middle of the road compromise here.  I think we can all agree if nothing changes, we need to jump ship before its too late.  At the same time barring some crazy talented Coach shaking loose, its a Texas size gamble to hand over the reigns to a brand new unproven HC.  I feel like we're too 'pot committed', to use a poker term, to fold the hand right now and start over.

 

What about bringing in some type of advisory role, similar to what Bill Parcells has done for teams.  I'm not being specific to him, but dang theres g2 be a coach out there with an itch to feel involved, and/or exhausted with seeing elite playoff games from Allen, get flushed down the toilet.

 

I have a feeling McD is not good at delegating jobs/roles downwards... and isnt doing a sufficient job teaching his Coordinators & Room Coaches, how to prepare.  Thats a force multiplier.  Maybe a coach who doesn't know how to do that, isn't worthy of a top coaching role period, I dunno.  Is he juggling too many pots out of necessity? Or is it obsessive compulsive and he can't help himself.  There's not enough hours in the week or weeks in the season to handle that load.  Burnout is real, and its anti efficient.  Im surprised we haven't heard about McD going out and doing this on his own, even looking for mentorship at the higher coaching skills.  Is Andy Reid too competitive to give the guy a hand?  Who could fill that role well for Sean?

At what point are you making it your mission that McDermott wins a Super Bowl vs the Bills win a Super Bowl?

 

McD is absolutely trying his best. But at some point, you have to decide if that  is good enough. 

[billsfan89]

One thing that has me as a McD defender (for lack of a better word) is that I am seeing a coach attempting to try different things. What frustrated me very early on in McD's tenure from 2019-2022 was the inability to try and change his approach. He was far too loyal to coordinators, not really drafting a lot on offense, and not being aggressive in play-calling and in game decisions. He also never seemed to stray away from being "tight" in close games and playing conservatively. 

 

In the last few years a lot has changed. He's gone off coordinators somewhat quickly (fired Frazer, fired Dorsey in season, moved on from a ST coordinator after a couple of years), he's become a very aggressive in game decision maker (a top 5-7 ranked coach in terms of aggressive calls the past two seasons), his defense has blitzed more esp in 2023 when he was the play caller (although I would still at times like to see it be more aggressive), and he's not been afraid to be more emotional and looser esp after that 2023 article came out. 

 

Is McD the right coach to get this team to the Super Bowl? I don't know, but I think he deserves a couple of more seasons at it. If by the end of next season we are looking at more playoff losses in disappointing fashion then I think you might just need a new voice in the locker room. But I think given that this isn't Marty Ball where Marty just did the same things over and over again and expecting different results I think there's been a lot of different attempts to adapt both by McD in how he coaches the team and Beane in how he has built the team. 

[H2o]

7 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Damn that Tom Grossi script writer guy, he has it in for us…, 

 

Until this guy is dead, we're screwed 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

  Where has the growth been by McD?

His D scheme remains the same. His demonstrable “ pucker factor” was on display last playoffs as it has always been.   
   We ALL want to see him do better but that is just a wish. 

 

If you didn’t notice a theme in the draft, free agency and this season’s coaching hires, I’m not sure what to tell you. Of course, we still need to see that one extra ball bounce our way. We’ve been very close, and that has made you hate him even more. It’s not my style, and I’ll never try to convince you of anything, so there’s not much point here.

 

Carry on with your misery. I’m not overly optimistic about this weekend, but I am feeling good for this season as a whole. Time will tell. 

 

 

[GoBills808]

55 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

 

@DrDawkinstein what do you think of a less drastic, middle of the road compromise here.  I think we can all agree if nothing changes, we need to jump ship before its too late.

nothing has changed

 

be honest w yourself. by now you've sat through over half of Allen's career watching McDermott's side of the ball collapse in the playoffs every single year on top of one of the worst coaching blunders in league history. if you haven't changed your mind by now you never will.

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

Teams who have a QB that finishes the year with a QBR above 65 win about 70% of the games they play. Over 70 and it goes to almost 75%. This is over the last 20 or so years. Allen has done that every year outside of his rookie season. Partner that with facing a complete rag tag group of QB's and teams in the AFC east during this run.

 

This comment isn't to categorize either of these people that way. It's just an honest question based on your post.

 

If you surround an average GM and an average coach in the AFC east the last 5 years with Josh Allen what outcome would you expect? Would we not be divisional favorites every year? To me it's wild that anybody could land on that not being the case. 

   As has been discussed multiple times, Give Josh to Gailey or Marrone or maybe even Mularkey and give them each 8 years and there is a good chance we have a SB in there.

   Josh has ABSOLUTELY been the factor that has allowed this team to be where it is. The players he has been surrounded by are not perennial probowlers by any means.

   Last year this offense did what? With whom? 

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

 

@DrDawkinstein what do you think of a less drastic, middle of the road compromise here.  I think we can all agree if nothing changes, we need to jump ship before its too late.  At the same time barring some crazy talented Coach shaking loose, its a Texas size gamble to hand over the reigns to a brand new unproven HC.  I feel like we're too 'pot committed', to use a poker term, to fold the hand right now and start over.

 

What about bringing in some type of advisory role, similar to what Bill Parcells has done for teams.  I'm not being specific to him, but dang theres g2 be a coach out there with an itch to feel involved, and/or exhausted with seeing elite playoff games from Allen, get flushed down the toilet.

 

I have a feeling McD is not good at delegating jobs/roles downwards... and isnt doing a sufficient job teaching his Coordinators & Room Coaches, how to prepare.  Thats a force multiplier.  Maybe a coach who doesn't know how to do that, isn't worthy of a top coaching role period, I dunno.  Is he juggling too many pots out of necessity? Or is it obsessive compulsive and he can't help himself.  There's not enough hours in the week or weeks in the season to handle that load.  Burnout is real, and its anti efficient.  Im surprised we haven't heard about McD going out and doing this on his own, even looking for mentorship at the higher coaching skills.  Is Andy Reid too competitive to give the guy a hand?  Who could fill that role well for Sean?

   If we go this route, then make Brady the head coach. Bring in someone to help him in a veteran coach capacity and get a new defensive coordinator.

  McD’s D is the issue. Unless he’s willing to have a different scheme/coordinator forced on him, then give him the boot.

 

Edited September 4 by Buffalo Boy

[Max Fischer]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

Teams who have a QB that finishes the year with a QBR above 65 win about 70% of the games they play. Over 70 and it goes to almost 75%. This is over the last 20 or so years. Allen has done that every year outside of his rookie season. Partner that with facing a complete rag tag group of QB's and teams in the AFC east during this run.

 

This comment isn't to categorize either of these people that way. It's just an honest question based on your post.

 

If you surround an average GM and an average coach in the AFC east the last 5 years with Josh Allen what outcome would you expect? Would we not be divisional favorites every year? To me it's wild that anybody could land on that not being the case. 

 

That simplistic explanation comically ignores a mountain of additional variables necessary to field an elite team year after year.  A Josh Allen-level QB makes that much easier, but even that took dozens of decisions to maximize his talent, let alone draft, sign, and coach the rest of the team.  To suggest McDermott and Beane are "average" is troll-level posting. 

[Mikie2times]

16 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

That simplistic explanation comically ignores a mountain of additional variables necessary to field an elite team year after year.  A Josh Allen-level QB makes that much easier, but even that took dozens of decisions to maximize his talent, let alone draft, sign, and coach the rest of the team.  To suggest McDermott and Beane are "average" is troll-level posting. 

 

Just answer the question.  With an average coach and GM and Josh Allen, how do you think we would fair in the AFC east the last 5 years? No playoffs? Some playoffs? Josh would never end up being Josh? 

Edited September 4 by Mikie2times

[Ethan in Cleveland]

20 hours ago, QB Bills said:

We get at least one of these threads every season.

 

He's the same guy he's always been and always will be. The Bills will have to win the super bowl in spite of him, not because of him.

Three years ago when I said the same thing and it was 90% negative emoji.  Now its at least 50/50. The fan base is getting more restless every year. 

 

Nothing would make me happier than to see McDermott lift the trophy this year.  

[Max Fischer]

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

Just answer the question.  With an average coach and GM and Josh Allen, how do you think we would fair in the AFC east the last 5 years? No playoffs? Some playoffs? Josh would never end up being Josh? 

 

NFL history is littered with examples of good talent going to waste due to poor coaching. I think there's a lot of evidence to suggest that McDermott, Beane, and Allen were ideally suited for each other. It took a very good staff and GM to pair with a very unique player personality and traits to get where they are. I think an average coach and GM would not have been able to help Allen become the player he is, and by consequence, the Bills would not have been nearly as good. Most on this board, including myself and the vast majority of "experts," didn't want Allen as their first choice, or even the first Josh. 

 

Unless you are 14 (which is possible), you will no doubt remember that almost no one but the Bills believed that Allen would be much more than an average QB, let alone an MVP. And few would have guessed that the Bills would become a perennial playoff contender and then a Super Bowl contender.  That would not have happened without excellent coaching and team building.  

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, Max Fischer said:

 

NFL history is littered with examples of good talent going to waste due to poor coaching. I think there's a lot of evidence to suggest that McDermott, Beane, and Allen were ideally suited for each other. It took a very good staff and GM to pair with a very unique player personality and traits to get where they are. I think an average coach and GM would not have been able to help Allen become the player he is, and by consequence, the Bills would not have been nearly as good. Most on this board, including myself and the vast majority of "experts," didn't want Allen as their first choice, or even the first Josh. 

 

Unless you are 14 (which is possible), you will no doubt remember that almost no one but the Bills believed that Allen would be much more than an average QB, let alone an MVP. And few would have guessed that the Bills would become a perennial playoff contender and then a Super Bowl contender.  That would not have happened without excellent coaching and team building.  

It's amuses me how insecure some of these posts can be. I never see the insults flying from people who ask questions about McD and Beane, but man, do they ever fly from his biggest supporters. You guys can't even make it a few sentences without throwing some limp sauce around. I've been on the site longer than 14 years by the way.

 

In any event, they had the marbles to take him and they should get all the credit in the world for that. Which Beane all but assures when he's doing his publicity tours. But to think a guy like McD who has zero experience on the offensive side made more of an initial impact than a guy like Jordan Palmer is questionable. Daboll, sure, he played a big role. McD hired Daboll, so I guess we credit McD. McD also hired Dorsey and put Allen in a horrible situation that played to his weaknesses as well. Beane brought in some great weapons at the start with big hits on Bease, Brown, and Diggs. But now seems content on using Josh as a piece to justify not having to invest further in the offense. 

 

Allen is self made more than anything. He is driven that way. At times his environment has helped and at times it's hurt, but make no mistake about it. Without Josh Allen, we have no process, no consistency, none of what you see today. You aren't getting that without winning and more than any other part of this roster along with our leadership, Allen is responsible for that. We went 9-7 and 6-10 with rookie Josh and some other QB's. We are a normal NFL team without him. What we were in the drought era. A QB less team with average talent, that at times threatens a wild card and times drafts near the top 10. Our fans base is making a huge mistake by over crediting these guys for this run. I hope it doesn't ultimately cost a Super Bowl but it very well could.  

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

 

@DrDawkinstein what do you think of a less drastic, middle of the road compromise here.  I think we can all agree if nothing changes, we need to jump ship before its too late.  At the same time barring some crazy talented Coach shaking loose, its a Texas size gamble to hand over the reigns to a brand new unproven HC.  I feel like we're too 'pot committed', to use a poker term, to fold the hand right now and start over.

 

What about bringing in some type of advisory role, similar to what Bill Parcells has done for teams.  I'm not being specific to him, but dang theres g2 be a coach out there with an itch to feel involved, and/or exhausted with seeing elite playoff games from Allen, get flushed down the toilet.

 

I have a feeling McD is not good at delegating jobs/roles downwards... and isnt doing a sufficient job teaching his Coordinators & Room Coaches, how to prepare.  Thats a force multiplier.  Maybe a coach who doesn't know how to do that, isn't worthy of a top coaching role period, I dunno.  Is he juggling too many pots out of necessity? Or is it obsessive compulsive and he can't help himself.  There's not enough hours in the week or weeks in the season to handle that load.  Burnout is real, and its anti efficient.  Im surprised we haven't heard about McD going out and doing this on his own, even looking for mentorship at the higher coaching skills.  Is Andy Reid too competitive to give the guy a hand?  Who could fill that role well for Sean?

 

Great post, lot to respond to here

 

IMO, if you are looking to bring in another HC in an advisory role, then that is enough evidence that you just need to fire him and move on. I actually think McD would be better in a President/advisory role where he can help set the culture.

 

My issue with McD is with in-game decisions and "playing it safe (scared)" when he should be looking to stick a dagger in the opponent. And more so, his inability to step it up a notch in the playoffs. I'm looking for a link or video, but there were clips and articles recently discussing how the coaches who win in the playoffs (Reid, Siriani, McVay) know that when they get to the playoffs they need to make changes and take their schemes and teams to the next level. Where as McDermott stays in his base schemes and continues to rely on his players just making plays. That works in the regular season just fine, but we've seen it bite us in the ass numerous times in the playoffs. This team lacks that extra gear and that is due to McD.

 

For Sean, and this team, to take the next step, I think he needs to bring in a real Defensive Coordinator, let them run their own scheme and stay out of their way. And Sean should just be a true HC.

 

Or we can find a HC who will.

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, Avisan said:

The number of you absolute geniuses on here that seems to assume that if we change coaches we'll just gently stroll our way into a Superbowl win is mind-blowing.

 

The Saints under Payton with Brees, one of the all time greats, regularly missed the playoffs.  Phillip Rivers was an incredible talent and didn't get many opportunities in the postseason relative to his ability.  It's unfortunate that we happened to ascend at the same time as another dynasty, but it's where we're at.

 

If there were some magical Chiefs-destroying coach in this league, he would be employed and *regularly beating the Chiefs.*

It's almost laughable that so many Buffalo Bills fans clamor for a HCing change and yet the current HC is the second best in the NFL over the last five seasons. Only the Chiefs have more wins!

 

 Who will you replace him with? Brian Daboll got the head coaching job with the Giants, and because he is a pass-happy fool, he let one of the very best RBs in the league go to a team in his own division...and they just won the Super Bowl!

 

McD went to the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor at QB! In 2023, the Bills were 6-6, and McD FIRED the OC because he demanded more, and that guy was Josh Allen's good friend, and he wanted him as OC. 

 

No NFL head coach can control player injuries or determine which way an oblong spheroid will bounce. Just understand there is nobody out there better at this point, and to fire this HC might send this franchise back to what it was before McD. Just relax and enjoy the team while they are good. I'm pretty certain that the Miami, New England, and NY Jets would jump at the chance to hire...clappy 

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It's amuses me how insecure some of these posts can be. I never see the insults flying from people who ask questions about McD and Beane, but man, do they ever fly from his biggest supporters. You guys can't even make it a few sentences without throwing some limp sauce around. I've been on the site longer than 14 years by the way.

 

So true and unfortunate.

 

I'm on record in a ton of posts singing McD's praises for what he does well. And he does plenty well. Unfortunately, where he lacks is exactly the difference between playoff team and Super Bowl championship.

 

But anytime we talk about that nuance, the insults and strawmen start flying.

4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

McD went to the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor at QB! 

 

The best description of McD I've seen is "He's the type of coach that can take a 4-13 team to the wild card round. And also the type of coach who can take a 14-3 team to the wild card round".

 

Making the playoffs isnt the goal anymore. I'm happy with it and I love winning the division, but the goal now is winning the Super Bowl. And that takes a different level that we havent seen from him once in 9 years.

[Max Fischer]

25 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It's amuses me how insecure some of these posts can be. I never see the insults flying from people who ask questions about McD and Beane, but man, do they ever fly from his biggest supporters. You guys can't even make it a few sentences without throwing some limp sauce around. I've been on the site longer than 14 years by the way.

 

In any event, they had the marbles to take him and they should get all the credit in the world for that. Which Beane all but assures when he's doing his publicity tours. But to think a guy like McD who has zero experience on the offensive side made more of an initial impact than a guy like Jordan Palmer is questionable. Daboll, sure, he played a big role. McD hired Daboll, so I guess we credit McD. McD also hired Dorsey and put Allen in a horrible situation that played to his weaknesses as well. Beane brought in some great weapons at the start with big hits on Bease, Brown, and Diggs. But now seems content on using Josh as a piece to justify not having to invest further in the offense. 

 

Allen is self made more than anything. He is driven that way. At times his environment has helped and at times it's hurt, but make no mistake about it. Without Josh Allen, we have no process, no consistency, none of what you see today. You aren't getting that without winning and more than any other part of this roster along with our leadership, Allen is responsible for that. We went 9-7 and 6-10 with rookie Josh and some other QB's. We are a normal NFL team without him. What we were in the drought era. A QB less team with average talent, that at times threatens a wild card and times drafts near the top 10. Our fans base is making a huge mistake by over crediting these guys for this run. I hope it doesn't ultimately cost a Super Bowl but it very well could.  

 

Man, are you fragile.  Your arguments are so weak. It's as if you want to completely separate Allen's development and the team's success from Beane and McDermott. It's like arguing Allen would have become elite without any input or design from McBeane and that Josh magically puts the team on his shoulders.  It's borderline pathological and makes no sense.  The front office and the coaches have made plenty of mistakes, and perhaps (perhaps) some other coach and GM could have done better, but you or I have no way of knowing. All I can do is present that they have put the team on the cusp of a Super Bowl, and for that, I give them credit where credit is due. 

[DrDawkinstein]

23 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

No NFL head coach can control player injuries or determine which way an oblong spheroid will bounce.

 

Excuses, excuses. Every team deals with injuries and bad bounces. Good coaches make their own luck. In 2021, we needed a stop in just 13 seconds and our Defensive HC let us down. Last season, KC just needed one stop, and Spags sent a new blitz off the right side we had never seen before because he knew Josh would roll right. THAT is the difference.

 

23 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Just understand there is nobody out there better at this point, 

 

Maybe not right this minute. But Payton, Harbaugh, and Vrabel were all out there and should have been strongly considered.

 

23 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

and to fire this HC might send this franchise back to what it was before McD...I'm pretty certain that the Miami, New England, and NY Jets would jump at the chance to hire...clappy 

 

Oh BS.

 

We have Josh. We win 10-12 games every year with him at QB and ME coaching (and I dont know jack!). Changing coaches, at worst, means we only win 10-12 games each year. To your point, we still have Miami, NE, and the Jets in the Division. Taking the Division and making the playoffs, with a Josh Allen on the team, is a given.

 

This is about what happens once we;re in the playoffs and all the talent is equal and it is coaching that sets teams apart.

 

 

 

Edited September 4 by DrDawkinstein