Game week thread - Ravens at Bills SNF

[TFBillsfan]

20 minutes ago, Mango said:

Total speculation. But I have been wondering if Bass had a hernia/and or hernia surgery that he is trying to recover from and the team is trying to be coy as they manage it. 

I really don’t understand why they didn’t IR Bass to start the season? The longer this lingers without him practicing the more I question his ramp up time and how significant of an injury is it. Knowing how close most NFL games are, having major doubts about the health of your kicker is troubling. Fully expecting Bass to be inactive for the first two weeks if not longer. 

[appoo]

considering all the bumps from training camp that's a fairly clean Injury report

[finn]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

That's possible to do. But we also have the best player in the league and you do not. Josh Allen. 

Allen is hands-down  the best player. No contest. He is approaching Lamar as a runner (because he can truck people) and far surpasses him as a passer. Watch any game, any highlight reel, and you'll see Lamar running brilliantly. But throwing brilliantly? Not so much. No more than any other starter in the league. He throws a pretty ball, I grant you, but I don't see any consistent brilliance, not like you see from Allen, Mahomes, and Burrows, even Stafford. I think people expect great passing from Lamar, since he's such a good runner and throws a pretty ball, and they see what they expect to see, not necessarily what is there. 

 

Flame away!

[appoo]

1 minute ago, TFBillsfan said:

I really don’t understand why they didn’t IR Bass to start the season? The longer this lingers without him practicing the more I question his ramp up time and how significant of an injury is it. Knowing how close most NFL games are, having major doubts about the health of your kicker is troubling. Fully expecting Bass to be inactive for the first two weeks if not longer. 

Bills can only make 8 such designations per season

2 minutes ago, finn said:

Allen is hands-down  the best player. No contest. He is approaching Lamar as a runner (because he can truck people) and far surpasses him as a passer. Watch any game, any highlight reel, and you'll see Lamar running brilliantly. But throwing brilliantly? Not so much. No more than any other starter in the league. He throws a pretty ball, I grant you, but I don't see any consistent brilliance, not like you see from Allen, Mahomes, and Burrows, even Stafford. I think people expect great passing from Lamar, since he's such a good runner and throws a pretty ball, and they see what they expect to see, not necessarily what is there. 

 

Flame away!

You haven't watched much of Lamar passing have you?

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, boyst said:

without those two the Ravens actually need to come out attacking short passes, quick routes, and even wheel routes. put speed against our db's, a lot of motion against our banged up cb's and rookies, our slow hamlin, our easily duped bishop, and wear rapp out.

 

run these pass routes early, get jackson his confidence. hell, even come out without huddling against our defense, quick passes all over us. maybe send someone deep. but eventually put henry into action and let him rumble and stumble against our weakened legs.

i could share some ideas...?

What speed?  Flowers and Bateman?  They have some juice but aren’t exactly Hill and Waddle, who we see twice a year.  
 

Why is Hamlin out there in your scenario? 
 

What banged up DB’s?  Everyone is healthy that will be out there.  Benford practice Full today.  If Tre plays, sure.. but if not, Strong is healthy.. lacks experience, but is healthy. 
 

Likely is explosive out of 12 and with Ricard they can go power or throw anywhere.  Putting a ton of stress of how you defend because going light can get you bullied but going heavy allows Likely to kill you downfield. 

 

Without those two, they’re an RPO Offense that happens to have Derrick Henry.  Still very tough, but without the extreme uniqueness they have with Ricard & Likely. 

[stevewin]

PSA - there was a separate thread created for exchanges with our troll friend - please don't feed him in this thread

 

 

 

Edited September 4 by stevewin

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, finn said:

Allen is hands-down  the best player. No contest. He is approaching Lamar as a runner (because he can truck people) and far surpasses him as a passer. Watch any game, any highlight reel, and you'll see Lamar running brilliantly. But throwing brilliantly? Not so much. No more than any other starter in the league. He throws a pretty ball, I grant you, but I don't see any consistent brilliance, not like you see from Allen, Mahomes, and Burrows, even Stafford. I think people expect great passing from Lamar, since he's such a good runner and throws a pretty ball, and they see what they expect to see, not necessarily what is there. 

 

Flame away!

 

I think this is where Lamar is probably judged a bit too critically. I think that because he is such a good runner, people have higher expectations as a passer in order to "feel" like LJ is a "Complete QB". 

The "Lamar is a bad passer/RB playing QB" trope is way too overplayed.

[appoo]

14 minutes ago, finn said:

Allen is hands-down  the best player. No contest. He is approaching Lamar as a runner (because he can truck people) and far surpasses him as a passer. Watch any game, any highlight reel, and you'll see Lamar running brilliantly. But throwing brilliantly? Not so much. No more than any other starter in the league. He throws a pretty ball, I grant you, but I don't see any consistent brilliance, not like you see from Allen, Mahomes, and Burrows, even Stafford. I think people expect great passing from Lamar, since he's such a good runner and throws a pretty ball, and they see what they expect to see, not necessarily what is there. 

 

Flame away!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2024/passing_advanced.htm

 

On Target %

3) Joe Burrow

9) Lamar Jackson

15) Patrick Mahomes

22) Josh Allen

 

Bad Throw % (higher rank is good)

4) Joe Burrow

16) Lamar Jackson

18) Patrick Mahomes

31) Josh Allen

 

Avg Depth of Target

8 - Lamar Jackson

13) Josh Allen

27) Joe Burrow

34) Patrick Mahomes

 

Completed Air Yards per Cmp

7) Lamar Jackson

17) Joe Burrow

19) Josh Allen

35) Patrick Mahomes

 

https://sumersports.com/players/quarterback/

 

Pass EPA

1) Lamar Jackson

3) Josh Allen

5) Joe Burrow

8 - Patrick Mahomes

 

Success Rate

4) Lamar Jackson

5) Joe Burrow

6) Josh Allen

9) Patrick Mahomes

 

There's a very easy arguement to be made - both metrics and eye test - that Lamar Jackson is the best passer alive

 

Like do you know what kind of unicorn you have to be to both highly ranked in depth of target AND % accurate balls?

Edited September 4 by appoo

[MasterStrategist]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Seems like Benford is good to go. Coleman limited is not ideal but media reports from the start of practice said he looked fine so not too worried. Bass looks to be trending towards not playing.

 

Benford is most important of all them. 

 

Then Shakir, then Keon, then Tre, then Bass IMO.

 

I'd expect Keon to be full tomorrow.   Missing Tre and Bass, creates an interesting p/s decision as I alluded to earlier today.

 

P/S : limited to 2 per week .  So Im wondering if we will see a Bass to IR move.  To make room for Prater- as I'd expect Zion and Dane to be called up too.

[appoo]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I think this is where Lamar is probably judged a bit too critically. I think that because he is such a good runner, people have higher expectations as a passer in order to "feel" like LJ is a "Complete QB". 

The "Lamar is a bad passer/RB playing QB" trope is way too overplayed.

Not just overplayed, wildly wrong

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I think this is where Lamar is probably judged a bit too critically. I think that because he is such a good runner, people have higher expectations as a passer in order to "feel" like LJ is a "Complete QB". 

The "Lamar is a bad passer/RB playing QB" trope is way too overplayed.

 

I think it has to do with preconceptions.  Coming into the league, Lamar was a limited passer.  He was very accurate on a limited vocabulary of throws, and teams learned if they took those away they could shut him down.  To his credit, Jackson worked his ass off becoming a complete throwing QB and he's now a very complete, very good passing QB, but people still view him through the lens of their preconceptions.

 

There are people who still see Allen through their preconceptions ("couldn't hit the broadside of a barn") as well, of course.  The difference is that for several years, the Bills had a mediocre run game, so for the Bills to win, all eyes were on the passing game and it was clear how much Allen had grown as a passer.

Edited September 4 by Beck Water

[FranchiseSavior]

38 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

So LB on Kincaid?  Pretty excited to see if Buff comes out in 23 personnel. Would a great flip of the script.  Besides Hawes I feel good about all those player running a route but also just mauling peeps 

We tend to play with 3 safetys so there would be another safety for The other TE.  

[Process]

So it sounds like we'll be missing CB2, CB3 and K for this one. Not ideal but not the end of the world. Maybe we should all chill?

 

Ravens missing some pieces on offense too. 

[FranchiseSavior]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Also: Thanks for the response.

I think this game may very well come down to who is and isn't healthy on both sides.

Ricard and Likely are both significant losses for the Ravens offense, and Tre White would be a potentially big loss for the Bills defense.

Here's to a good, hard fought, injury-free game (and a Bills win, of course!)

What you said but a Ravens Win.  

[henry jones]

12 minutes ago, appoo said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2024/passing_advanced.htm

 

On Target %

3) Joe Burrow

9) Lamar Jackson

15) Patrick Mahomes

22) Josh Allen

 

Bad Throw % (higher rank is good)

4) Joe Burrow

16) Lamar Jackson

18) Patrick Mahomes

31) Josh Allen

 

Avg Depth of Target

8 - Lamar Jackson

13) Josh Allen

27) Joe Burrow

34) Patrick Mahomes

 

Completed Air Yards per Cmp

7) Lamar Jackson

17) Joe Burrow

19) Josh Allen

35) Patrick Mahomes

 

https://sumersports.com/players/quarterback/

 

Pass EPA

1) Lamar Jackson

3) Josh Allen

5) Joe Burrow

8 - Patrick Mahomes

 

Success Rate

4) Lamar Jackson

5) Joe Burrow

6) Josh Allen

9) Patrick Mahomes

 

There's a very easy arguement to be made - both metrics and eye test - that Lamar Jackson is the best passer alive

 

Like do you know what kind of unicorn you have to be to both highly ranked in depth of target AND % accurate balls?

What this doesn’t show is how wide open his receivers are.  Aren’t his receivers #1 in separation rate or something like that.  Hes always had a great O-line which allows him time in the pocket and thus allows his wideouts time to get open.  Pretty sure I could hit the guys he’s throwing to!

[newcam2012]

23 minutes ago, finn said:

Allen is hands-down  the best player. No contest. He is approaching Lamar as a runner (because he can truck people) and far surpasses him as a passer. Watch any game, any highlight reel, and you'll see Lamar running brilliantly. But throwing brilliantly? Not so much. No more than any other starter in the league. He throws a pretty ball, I grant you, but I don't see any consistent brilliance, not like you see from Allen, Mahomes, and Burrows, even Stafford. I think people expect great passing from Lamar, since he's such a good runner and throws a pretty ball, and they see what they expect to see, not necessarily what is there. 

 

Flame away!

STOP!!! Allen is not approaching Lamar as a runner. Not even close. Lamar is quick, elusive, and a home run threat. Allen is more of a plodder and powerful runner. Lamar is far more dangerous with his legs and it's not even close. 

 

Contrastingly, Allen is a superior thrower than Lamar. Not even close. Lamar has improved to be a sufficient thrower but he will never be a Josh Allen. 

 

Both QBs are elite and hopefully get to hoist Lombardi Trophies. 

[FranchiseSavior]

1 hour ago, YattaOkasan said:

Ricards ability to run a route though is his secret weapon. Easy to put a big guy back there to hit people. But not being one dimensional when you do that is the challenge. Ricard had to be respected in the passing game. 

Ricard doesn't run routes he probably has less than 20 rec in a 8 year career.  Not having Ricard will force teams to play us more honest.   The rule of thumb around the league is Ricard will take you to the ball.  With him being out we shall see.

[Gregg]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-will-wear-jersey-patches-recognizing-final-season-in-their-current-stadium/ar-AA1LTBK9?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=68b9f45b147149d88d2c47563040038f&ei=12

[FranchiseSavior]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

awe... sweetie. stats are really complicated for some. it's a hard subject. i know philosophical experts like stephen a smiff present grand explanations...

but in 2024 the bills averaged 115 yards/game thats with the big run by Henry. traditionally, the bills defense is good against the run.

 

so on average, yes, 199 yards is statistically a fluke. once the bills let the large run break for a TD that meant the bills gameplan was off the script and it fell apart. so that is a football logic and 101 type of thing.

 

are you following? because if i have to go more i will be more abrasive because i don't suffer fools from other teams coming here waving a flag of superiority. not especially when they get beat by the Bills in the playoffs in the last run and you'll likely come back here and pound your chest to the entire internet about how amazing your team is...

 

but, it's sort of the point. you pay to have an affiliation with your team. likely countless dollars, like all of us. you pay with your time, like us, to discuss your favorite team. the difference here between most of us and you? you're on the opposing teams message board stroking yourself off to fill some sort of void in your lack of superiority/confidence to instill that your identity is that of men who will never know your name, wear colors you support, from a town you have some connection to, in a game you probably have not played in 20 years+...

 

so, yeah, sweetheart, spare me that you have an opinion that Lamar JAckson means anything more to you than that of him just wearing purple, black, yellow and red.... because if Josh Allen was your QB you'd be just as willing to go visit him at the truck stop as you would Lamar.

The Ravens as a team ran for 176 yards in the second game. No it wasn't quite the 271 they ran for in the 1st game but they still ran the ball well.  I dint think it was a fluke I think the Ravens run game is a bad matchup for most teams in the league.  Most teams in the league construct their roster to stop teams from beating them through the air.  The Ravens are in of a few teams that want to run the ball.  Im not going to go the route and insult you but I dont think your fluke claim has much merit.  Ironically there are some Bills fans on this site who feel the same way. 

[ALLinALLEN]

What is going on with Bass, man? He didnt practice today and now we signed a kicker? What the hell is happenning.