Bills hosting Gabe Davis for visit

[Taro Nimbus]

5 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Call me nuts, I’d take Shavers.   The only time Davis looks good is when Josh is on the run and he seems to find a spot for Josh to throw to.  That much, he’s amazing, pretty much everything else, he’s pretty mediocre.  It’s not his fault he got asked to be more than he is here.  Great for him, he got paid for it.   As a #4 or 5 he’s good, but I’d swing for the younger guy with better hands.

Yeah because going off what you see in preseason against a bunch of backups is really telling. 

[Bills!Win!]

Gabe thrived as a #4 WR. He would thrive in an everybody eats system. I say sign him 

[Goin Breakdown]

40 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

Gabe thrived as a #4 WR. He would thrive in an everybody eats system. I say sign him 

His mom would t approve of an everyone eats system

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, In Summary said:

Asking seriously here, do you think Shavers has both better separation and hands?

I think Shavers is the better athlete.  Gabe loses focus too many times.  Multiple times he was not on the same page as Allen, it was talked about on WGR today.  We all know he has consistent bad drops.  

He obviously isn’t doing enough to get open because he had multiple zero burgers in the second half of 2023.  
Let go after one year in Jax.

 

Why are we to assume Davis is a better option than Shavers?  Davis’s career is trending down right now.

[BillsFanForever19]

4 hours ago, In Summary said:

Asking seriously here, do you think Shavers has both better separation and hands?

 

22 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think Shavers is the better athlete.  Gabe loses focus too many times.  Multiple times he was not on the same page as Allen, it was talked about on WGR today.  We all know he has consistent bad drops.  

He obviously isn’t doing enough to get open because he had multiple zero burgers in the second half of 2023.  
Let go after one year in Jax.

 

Why are we to assume Davis is a better option than Shavers?  Davis’s career is trending down right now.

 

Why is everyone assuming it's one or the other?

 

First off, Gabe Davis won't be ready for Week 1. If signed, he'd be put on a list until he's ready. And by the time you're ready to activate him, who knows whether all of our WR's will still be healthy and active.

 

Also, the only 3 WR's on this roster that you can say with 100% certainty are safe are Khalil Shakir, Josh Palmer, and Keon Coleman.

 

Elijah Moore reportedly has not been impressing. Curtis Samuel has both Beane (who mentioned every WR on the roster *but* Samuel on McAfee) and McDermott (who said he needs to see urgency from Samuel down the stretch to see if and how he'll fit in the Offense) publicly not showing a lot of confidence in. Teams are openly in the vet WR Trade Market right now and if they can get out from his contract, I bet they would.

 

At this point, it seems unlikely that both will stick on the roster and not completely out of the realm of possibility that neither do. I'd even go so far as to say I feel more confident that Shavers will stick than I do both of Moore and Samuel sticking together.

 

And on top of all of that, 5 is what we carried last year. But we've carried 6 under the Beane and McDermott era more times than we've kept 5. So it's even possible to have Moore, Samuel, and Shavers sticking and Davis on PUP. 

 

All of this to say, you can easily come up with ways that both Shavers and Davis are here. And I find that to be a more likely scenario than only one or the other being here, if Davis were to be signed.

Edited Thursday at 04:17 AM by BillsFanForever19

[Richard Noggin]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

Why is everyone assuming it's one or the other?

 

First off, Gabe Davis won't be ready for Week 1. If signed, he'd be put on a list until he's ready. And by the time you're ready to activate him, who knows whether all of our WR's will still be healthy and active.

 

Also, the only 3 WR's on this roster you can say with 100% certainty are safe are Khalil Shakir, Josh Palmer, and Keon Coleman.

 

Elijah Moore reportedly has not been impressing. Curtis Samuel has both Beane (who mentioned every WR on the roster but Samuel on McAfee) and McDermott (who said he needs to see urgency from Samuel down the stretch to see if and how he'll fit in the Offense) publicly not showing a lot of confidence in. Teams are in need of vet WR's and if they can get out from his contract, I bet they would.

 

At this point, it seems unlikely that both will stick on the roster and not out of the realm of possibility that neither do. I'd even go so far as to say I feel just as confident that Shavers will stick as I do either of them.

 

And on top of all of that, 5 is what we carried last year. But we've carried 6 under the Beane and McDermott era more times than we've kept 5. 

 

All of this to say, you can easily come up with ways that both Shavers and Davis are here. And I find that to be more likely than one or the other, if he were to be signed.

 

I hadn't considered that Samuel has any trade value, but if the Bills are just looking to offload an oft-injured WR and his cap and open up space on the 53 for more versatile (in terms of STs and true boundary traits), available prospect in Shavers, maybe a mid-to-late round pick and a late round swap gets it done? 

 

Shavers has done nothing but flash in his limited opportunities over the years. He has progressed. He has boundary traits we lack outside Coleman and Palmer. 

 

Moore I'm completely MEH about. Seems like a guy who could produce from time to time with Josh Allen. So maybe as a 4 or 5 he makes it, but don't 4s and 5s generally need to offer some teams ability? I guess not always. 

[BillsFanForever19]

23 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I hadn't considered that Samuel has any trade value, but if the Bills are just looking to offload an oft-injured WR and his cap and open up space on the 53 for more versatile (in terms of STs and true boundary traits), available prospect in Shavers, maybe a mid-to-late round pick and a late round swap gets it done? 

 

Shavers has done nothing but flash in his limited opportunities over the years. He has progressed. He has boundary traits we lack outside Coleman and Palmer. 

 

Moore I'm completely MEH about. Seems like a guy who could produce from time to time with Josh Allen. So maybe as a 4 or 5 he makes it, but don't 4s and 5s generally need to offer some teams ability? I guess not always. 

 

I'm sure a potential Samuel trade would just be something like Samuel and a 7th for a 6th, maybe even in 2027. It would be all about unloading the contract to make room.

 

As we're currently Dead Last in the league with 1.7m for the 51. But we need to come up with a fair amount more to go from 51 to 53, pay the Practice Squad, and have some room for In Season Spending. But there's also some restructuring we can do to do that.

 

You don't have to offer Special Teams as a 4th or a 5th WR, but it definitely doesn't help your chances if you're on the bubble if you don't. And that's where Moore kind of is. I'm getting an OJ Howard vibe from him. Down to the dollar amount in guarantees (2.5m isn't nothing, but it's not uncuttable), the lack of Teams, and a young guy on a minimum contract impressing underneath him while he isn't. Right now, I just as easily see him being cut as I do him sticking.

 

If they have an actual interest in Davis and it's not just doing due diligence or helping someone they like out by manufacturing interest - I could easily see a scenario where down the stretch our WR core was Shakir, Palmer, Coleman, Davis, and Shavers.

Edited yesterday at 03:43 AM by BillsFanForever19

[BearNorth]

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

You don't have to offer Special Teams as a 4th or a 5th WR, but it definitely doesn't help your chances if you're on the bubble if you don't. And that's where Moore kind of is. I'm getting an OJ Howard vibe from him. Down to the dollar amount in guarantees (2.5m isn't nothing, but it's not uncuttable), the lack of Teams, and a young guy impressing underneath him while he isn't. Right now, I just as easily see him being cut as I do him sticking.

 

If they have an actual interest in Davis and it's not just doing due diligence or helping someone they like out to manufacture interest - I could easily see a scenario where down the stretch our WR core was Shakir, Palmer, Coleman, Davis, and Shavers.

Davis is certainly enough of a specimen to play teams, but will he at this point in his career?  

[KentuckyBillsFan]

18 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

They've been a top ten passing offense every year since 2020.  There is more than one way to skin a cat.   Do you want great wideouts or do you want to be in the playoffs every year?   They certainly can lose all their games and draft better talent if you want?  We could always trade Josh Allen, open up the cap space and get the best free agents every year?  Your choice I guess. 

Having a top 10 passing offense with arguably the best QB in the game is not some mindblowing thing.

 

Also, the idea that you have to have a top 5 pick to get a really good pass catcher is a false premise. The Bills haven't drafted the position well.

 

There are two things that consistently let us down in big moments: McDermott's defense and our pass catchers.

[SCBills]

25 minutes ago, KentuckyBillsFan said:

Having a top 10 passing offense with arguably the best QB in the game is not some mindblowing thing.

 

Also, the idea that you have to have a top 5 pick to get a really good pass catcher is a false premise. The Bills haven't drafted the position well.

 

There are two things that consistently let us down in big moments: McDermott's defense and our pass catchers.

Call me crazy, but I’m starting to buy into our Top 3. 
 

Maybe that all comes crashing down in a couple weeks against Baltimore, but I’m buying into the hope that Coleman is going to be a weapon and that Palmer has another gear with a change of scenery. 
 

I also think Kincaid either breaks out this year or is a dud.  I don’t really see any in-between.  

[JP51]

21 hours ago, SCBills said:

For me, it’s just when Joe B says something, it’s usually based in factual rumblings.  
 

I don’t know who would want Samuel, but I think it’s notable if he’s posting about it. 
 

 

I am not gonna lie, if we can somehow get out of that contract and get something in return I am about done with Samuel as I fear its gonna be the same old same old... average play and always injured... and i respect Joe B like you said...  so lets see...  

21 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Moore is very reasonable as a trade candidate.  Bills take 750K dead cap and the new team gets him for 1.75M.   I can easily see that happening.   There may be a way to modify Samuel's deal to do a cost sharing thing...those are the two candidates......reality is Moore is easier to trade.

Agree on Moore.. and hey if they can re work a Samuel thing so we get some savings, or at least dont have to account for more if we trade him, I am in... 

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, KentuckyBillsFan said:

Having a top 10 passing offense with arguably the best QB in the game is not some mindblowing thing.

 

Also, the idea that you have to have a top 5 pick to get a really good pass catcher is a false premise. The Bills haven't drafted the position well.

 

There are two things that consistently let us down in big moments: McDermott's defense and our pass catchers.

 

This is a list of wideouts the Bills were never in position to draft over the last 7 years because they won too many games.   Picking in the top 5, even the top 15 doesn't ensure you'll pick a great pass catcher, but it takes a ton of the guess work out of it.   The bust rate for players goes up exponentially the later they are picked. 

 

 

Quentin Johnston

Zay Flowers

Jordan Addison

Drake London

Garrett Wilson

Chris Olave

Jameson Williams

Jahan Dotson

Treylon Burks

Ja'Marr Chase

Jaylen Waddle

DeVonta Smith

Kadarius Toney

Chris Olave

Henry Ruggs

CeeDee Lamb

Jalen Reagor

Justin Jefferson

Brandon Aiyuk

Corey Davis

Mike Williams

John Ross

 

Outside of the 2019 draft where they royally screwed the pooch in missing out on Aj Brown, DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin, and Deebo Samuel, they have done a very good job of getting value out of their picks and avoiding bad players.   The constant denigration of the Bllls WR room, when they have brought in or drafted players like Diggs, Beasley, Emmanuel Sanders, John Brown, and Khalil Shakir over the last 8 years is a little mystifying.  They drafted a 2nd round WR just last year.   They hope he will develop.   If he doesnt I am sure they will fix it.  

 

Lets be real about what you guys want.  You want Ja'Maar Chase or AJ Brown.   Look at the list of wideouts drafted in the last eight years and youll see how rare that is.   This team has won an average of 11 games a year since McDermott got here.   They've missed the playoffs once in 8 years.   But still you complain.   They've brought in great talent at Tackle, Center, Guard, Cornerback, and Linebacker.   But you complain because it's not a WR.   It just doesnt make sense. 

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:18 PM by thenorthremembers

[LEBills]

13 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

This is a list of wideouts the Bills were never in position to draft over the last 7 years because they won too many games.   Picking in the top 5, even the top 15 doesn't ensure you'll pick a great pass catcher, but it takes a ton of the guess work out of it.   The bust rate for players goes up exponentially the later they are picked. 

 

 

Quentin Johnston

Zay Flowers

Jordan Addison

Drake London

Garrett Wilson

Chris Olave

Jameson Williams

Jahan Dotson

Treylon Burks

Ja'Marr Chase

Jaylen Waddle

DeVonta Smith

Kadarius Toney

Chris Olave

Henry Ruggs

CeeDee Lamb

Jalen Reagor

Justin Jefferson

Brandon Aiyuk

Corey Davis

Mike Williams

John Ross

 

Outside of the 2019 draft where they royally screwed the pooch in missing out on Aj Brown, DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin, and Deebo Samuel, they have done a very good job of getting value out of their picks and avoiding bad players.   The constant denigration of the Bllls WR room, when they have brought in or drafted players like Diggs, Beasley, Emmanuel Sanders, John Brown, and Khalil Shakir over the last 8 years is a little mystifying.  They drafted a 2nd round WR just last year.   They hope he will develop.   If he doesnt I am sure they will fix it.  

 

Lets be real about what you guys want.  You want Ja'Maar Chase or AJ Brown.   Look at the list of wideouts drafted in the last eight years and youll see how rare that is.   This team has won an average of 11 games a year since McDermott got here.   They've missed the playoffs once in 8 years.   But still you complain.   They've brought in great talent at Tackle, Center, Guard, Cornerback, and Linebacker.   But you complain because it's not a WR.   It just doesnt make sense. 

 

 

 

 

People complain because aside from Coleman, they don’t even try to draft WRs in the first two days of the draft where most good WRs come from. Maybe you don’t wind up with an all star player, but maybe you wind up with a good player on a cost controlled contract and so don’t have to desperately sign Curtis Samuel and Josh Palmer to contracts they are not worth. 

 

WR is the second most expensive position besides QB. So if you want to keep the room cheap but have a talented room, you need to draft players. Look at the Chiefs over the last 4 years they have drafted 3 WRs in the first two rounds. Yea one busted, but two seem pretty good and keep that position room cheap for them so they can pay other, better players.

[Sierra Foothills]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Elijah Moore reportedly has not been impressing.

 

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

You don't have to offer Special Teams as a 4th or a 5th WR, but it definitely doesn't help your chances if you're on the bubble if you don't. And that's where Moore kind of is. I'm getting an OJ Howard vibe from him. Down to the dollar amount in guarantees (2.5m isn't nothing, but it's not uncuttable), the lack of Teams, and a young guy impressing underneath him while he isn't. Right now, I just as easily see him being cut as I do him sticking.

 

FWIW in his The Athletic article on Tuesday, Joe Buscaglia had this to say about Elijah Moore:

 

"Moore has had a really nice camp and gives the Bills a strong backup option at slot receiver should anything happen to Shakir, and Moore could even play Z-receiver and return kickoffs or punts."

 

We'll see soon enough because cutdown day is in 5 days... Tuesday August 26th.

 

[boyst]

I have a feeling that if we sign him it'll be after final cuts. Will give all of our players currently rostered a chance to show us one more time. And we know what we have with him, and he is injured. Unless there's a way to sign him and put him immediately on the pup, make your cuts see if anyone else might have a chance to be better than him and then simply sign him to the practice squad to tell him we'll move him to the complete roster once healed. 

 

Either way he would be in the bottom 51 I believe. 

[Dillenger4]

1 minute ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

FWIW in his The Athletic article on Tuesday, Joe Buscaglia had this to say about Elijah Moore:

 

"Moore has had a really nice camp and gives the Bills a strong backup option at slot receiver should anything happen to Shakir, and Moore could even play Z-receiver and return kickoffs or punts."

 

We'll see soon enough because cutdown day is in 5 days... Tuesday August 26th.

 

Then there was the all 22 explaining how Moore was wide open on MANY of his routes vs Bears but didn't get a pass thrown his way. Dude is a lock and gonna bust some plays with Josh this year.

[JP51]

4 minutes ago, boyst said:

I have a feeling that if we sign him it'll be after final cuts. Will give all of our players currently rostered a chance to show us one more time. And we know what we have with him, and he is injured. Unless there's a way to sign him and put him immediately on the pup, make your cuts see if anyone else might have a chance to be better than him and then simply sign him to the practice squad to tell him we'll move him to the complete roster once healed. 

 

Either way he would be in the bottom 51 I believe. 

I agree I highly doubt that we would sign him prior to the 3rd PS game

[SCBills]

20 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

FWIW in his The Athletic article on Tuesday, Joe Buscaglia had this to say about Elijah Moore:

 

"Moore has had a really nice camp and gives the Bills a strong backup option at slot receiver should anything happen to Shakir, and Moore could even play Z-receiver and return kickoffs or punts."

 

We'll see soon enough because cutdown day is in 5 days... Tuesday August 26th.

 

Moore has some filthy tape in the preseason games but all we see is a couple drops on short passes because our backup QB’s didn’t see him wide open downfield and/or couldn’t get it to him. 

[boyst]

26 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I agree I highly doubt that we would sign him prior to the 3rd PS game

that's what i was saying.

 

we want to see who else has what before cutting them.

[JP51]

3 minutes ago, boyst said:

that's what i was saying.

 

we want to see who else has what before cutting them.

Yup and I 100% agree