Early returns on 2024 Draft is awful

[nuklz2594]

21 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I would have preferred Ladd McConkey myself, but I get your point 😂

Thing is...draft ladd and still could've gotten coleman

[Pete]

3 hours ago, JP51 said:

Funny but Landon Jackson was my guy to come in and make a difference... I have been a bit disappointed he looks like he is getting eaten up... I would absolutely love for you to bring me some hopeful cheer without a doubt...  

Joe Marino says Landon played much better against the Bears, and there were signs of pass rush moves.  Greg Cossell said he liked Landon as a Pass Rusher.  He said Landon played great against Will Campbell and had 4 or 5 reps were Landon won. Greg said in NFL Landon's chest is collapsing on pass rushes, he needs to correct that.  It wasnt a problem in college, its better technique.  Greg said Landon needs to remember to use his long arms, to attack defender, and that was something Landon excelled on in college

[JP51]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Joe Marino says Landon played much better against the Bears, and there were signs of pass rush moves.  Greg Cossell said he liked Landon as a Pass Rusher.  He said Landon played great against Will Campbell and had 4 or 5 reps were Landon won. Greg said in NFL Landon's chest is collapsing on pass rushes, he needs to correct that.  It wasnt a problem in college, its better technique.  Greg said Landon needs to remember to use his long arms, to attack defender, and that was something Landon excelled on in college

He was the guy I felt like would make an impact this year... press for time... I am holding out hope... plus with our injury situation in the DB pass rush is critical. 

[RoscoeParrish]

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

How do you consider it "dirty pool"? It's simply fact that most Drafted Rookies don't light the league on fire in Year 1. Especially when you're consistently picking at the bottom of Round 1.

 

Yes, you need to be patient with Draft Picks. You can't rely on them to get the NFL game down immediately. And the Bills aren't doing that on Defense this year. They have fall back plans everywhere.

 

We're not just relying on Maxwell Hairston and Dorian Strong. We signed Tre White and Dane Jackson. We're not just relying on T.J. Sanders and Deone Walker. We signed Larry Ogunjobi. We're not just relying on Landon Jackson. We signed Joey Bosa and Michael Hoecht.

 

Of course you *want* to find 1st year impact players in the Draft. But the Draft is a crap shoot as is. It's an even bigger crap shoot if you're wanting to see major Year 1 impact. And an even bigger one still if you want Year 1 impact while consistently picking at the bottom of the Round.

The “fall back plans” are all guys I wouldn’t expect to make the defense better over the course of the season, except for Bosa if he can stay healthy.

 

So really, outside of Bosa, the improvement on the defense needs to come from the rookies.

 

But we can’t expect that.

 

So we should expect the same caliber of defense unless Bosa reverts back to a top 5 EDGE and stays healthy all the year.

[BillsFanForever19]

8 hours ago, Pete said:

Cooper DeJean, Brock, Drake, Jayden, Ladd, Bo, Malik, etc are laughing that you can’t play well in your first year.

 

TJ Sanders is laughing at you as well.  TJ will show Cole what a rookie can do.

 

Benford is in hysterics that you can’t be great rookie year 

 

Please show me where I said Rookies "can't" play well in their first year.

 

I said you can't *rely* on that. That it's unlikely, especially with your first pick being around Pick 30, or in the case of this discussion, 33.

 

And your gotcha's for last year prove my point more than yours. Of a field of 257 picks, you pointed to 7 players. I'll even add Brian Thomas Jr. to your list.

 

Of those 8 players, only 2 were on the board when we picked. And we'd only be able to get 1 of them.

 

2 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

The “fall back plans” are all guys I wouldn’t expect to make the defense better over the course of the season, except for Bosa if he can stay healthy.

 

So really, outside of Bosa, the improvement on the defense needs to come from the rookies.

 

But we can’t expect that.

 

So we should expect the same caliber of defense unless Bosa reverts back to a top 5 EDGE and stays healthy all the year.

 

Like above, you're taking words like "unlikely" to mean impossible. Statements like "you can't rely on Rookies in Year 1" to mean "Rookies will provide nothing". These are not things I'm saying.

 

What I'm saying is to *expect* it is a lot to ask of them (especially where we're picking). To rely only on just them is foolish, which is why we don't if we can avoid it.

 

The Defense will way more likely than not improve. But it's not all on the Rookies, like you're implying. And it's not all on the Veterans. It's in both. And also, it's in who they're replacing.

 

At CB, from the field of Maxwell Hairston, Tre White, Dorian Strong, and Dane Jackson - to see an improvement they need to provide more than Rasul Douglas (who gave up a 144.2 passer rating when thrown on and is on the street bc he's toast), Kaiir Elam, and Ja'Marcus Ingram.

 

At DE, from the field of Joey Bosa, Michael Hoecht, and Landon Jackson - to see an improvement they need to provide more than Von Miller and Dawuane Smoot.

 

At DT, from the field of T.J. Sanders, Larry Ogunjobi, and Deone Walker - to see an improvement they need to provide more than Austin Johnson, Quinton Jefferson, and Jordan Phillips.

 

These are not big asks of either the Rookies or the Veterans.

Edited August 21 by BillsFanForever19

[RoscoeParrish]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Dorian Strong, and Dane Jackson - to see an improvement they need to provide more than Rasul Douglas (who gave up a 144.2 passer rating when thrown on and is on the street bc he's toast), Kaiir Elam, and Ja'Marcus Ingram.

 

At DE, from the field of Joey Bosa, Michael Hoecht, and Landon Jackson - to see an improvement they need to provide more than Von Miller and Dawuane Smoot.

 

At DT, from the field of T.J. Sanders, Larry Ogunjobi, and Deone Walker - to see an improvement they need to provide more than Austin Johnson, Quinton Jefferson, and Jordan Phillips

The list of old vets and new vets are basically the same caliber of player outside of Bosa. Which is the whole point. 
 

Do I expect a wildly upgraded CB pairing if Tre White starts in Rasul Douglas’ position? I don’t.

 

Ditto for basically everyone on that list.

 

which is why the improvement is going to have to come from the rookies.

[DCofNC]

On 8/19/2025 at 8:47 AM, YattaOkasan said:

Beane doesnt get to have Josh as a claim to fame?  He nailed the most important position with a player that was almost universally panned.  So you panning him now isnt gonna get you much.  You also left off Spencer Brown, who is top 5 at his position, from this list.  How many top 5 players at their position should he have at this point?  

You do understand that you are the only person on earth that has Brown as top 5 at the position, right?  Either way, 1 great pick in 8 seasons and if you want to claim to be right, you have 2.  Mind you, if he was so great as a talent evaluator, you might expect more than 1 in 25 on picks in the 1st 3 rounds.

[Dafan]

On 8/18/2025 at 9:26 AM, Pete said:

Keon could salvage it.  IMO Keon has a great season.

 

2nd round pick- Cole Bishop- maybe the light turns on, but he looks lost out there.  He let tiny Xavier Worthy rip the ball out of his hands.  Has me made a great play yet?  Any signs of hope?

 

Carter- probably our weakest lineman.  He would surely be cut if he wasn’t last years third rounder.

 

That’s possible 1 for 3 with our first 3 picks.  .333 is good batting average in baseball, but ***** for top 3 picks.

 

Hopefully Keon steps up, to save this draft from being a disaster.

Cooper DeJean was top value for our pick, and whom I would have drafted.  

K, I'm still up in the air about Bishop, but that was a f*** up of a call.  Worst case scenario it should have been incomplete.  Imo it should have been a pick.

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, DCofNC said:

You do understand that you are the only person on earth that has Brown as top 5 at the position, right?  Either way, 1 great pick in 8 seasons and if you want to claim to be right, you have 2.  Mind you, if he was so great as a talent evaluator, you might expect more than 1 in 25 on picks in the 1st 3 rounds.

I (and many others) trust Brandon Thorn to be one of the best OL talent evaluators. He listed him as #3 RT in the league. So I understand one of the most respected evaluators has him top 5.
 

He also picked Josh Freaking Allen. Christian Benford also top 10 talent. Taron Johnson still top 10 and maybe top 5 (def was at his peak). I got to 3 top 5 players. 2 of those are at premium positions and has a top 10 at another premium position. Has he gotten top 10 at every premium position? No but he’s doing way better than you are giving credit for. 

[DCofNC]

16 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

I (and many others) trust Brandon Thorn to be one of the best OL talent evaluators. He listed him as #3 RT in the league. So I understand one of the most respected evaluators has him top 5.
 

He also picked Josh Freaking Allen. Christian Benford also top 10 talent. Taron Johnson still top 10 and maybe top 5 (def was at his peak). I got to 3 top 5 players. 2 of those are at premium positions and has a top 10 at another premium position. Has he gotten top 10 at every premium position? No but he’s doing way better than you are giving credit for. 

So you mean to tell me, you believe he did more than follow their board in the 3rd, 4th and 6th rounds?  Or he knew he was getting top players at that point in the draft and didn’t bother to pick them in the earlier rounds because he wanted to pay guys who can’t make the field more money?   What is it?  It’s not pure luck, but if he’s so great, why has he only found one outstanding player in the first round, 1 above average RB in the second round and 1 let’s call him “top 10” RTs in the third in 8 tries.  Yes he’s hit on later round picks, that’s great, but why can’t he identify real talent early on?   He’s failed miserably at it and quite honestly, if this board were running the first 2 rounds, the team probably would be more talented at this point.  The only thing he has to hang his hat on is Allen.  It’s the same ***** Pollian did, he got a QB and built mediocre teams around them, forcing the QB to be flawless for the team to win, yet took all the credit for squeaking out a couple championships.

 

Do you think Bellicheck is a great GM because he found Brady in the 6th round?  I’m willing to bet you don’t because it’s obvious he wasn’t and the team was dog crap without the QB. 

Edited August 22 by DCofNC

[mjt328]

On 8/20/2025 at 11:56 PM, Mikie2times said:

I think the playoff game was 425 like 250. We will lose week one. More likely than not we will be blown out. The forum will explode in negativity.
 

By the time we play KC we will be 6-1 and people like yourself will be back on the Super Bowl bandwagon. They will be saying things like week 1 doesn’t matter. Heck, we probably even beat the Chiefs to go 7-1. Then the forum will be erupting in Super Bowl projections. 
 

This team has regressed or is equal in weakness in multiple positions since last year. The defense will be a catastrophic failure when it matters most.  Why wouldn’t they be? It’s the same players outside of some hope a bunch of rookies and injured players change the narrative. I imagine at some point injuries will be blamed because that what we do.
 

Same story coming as the one you already know. Feel free to bump this post as much as you want next year. Just make sure not to forget the bump when the seasons over.

 

I'm not the type of person that gets upset with negative opinions, or believes that fans are supposed to be overly optimistic.  But trying to take a realistic/balanced look at this team, I'm just not sure how you think they have regressed.

 

The offense is almost identical to last year's.  The only real difference in the starting lineup is Josh Palmer instead of Amari Cooper (who had virtually no production with us).  And all signs from training camp are that Keon Coleman has drastically improved from his rookie year.  

 

Then the starting defense has basically swapped Von Miller for Joey Bosa, and an old Rasul Douglas for an old Tre White.  At safety, we are hoping that Cole Bishop is able to upgrade Damar Hamlin.

Even if you assume that none of our rookies make an impact, or that Bishop sucks and we are forced to go back to Hamlin -- it's pretty much still the same Buffalo Bills team as last year.  Same core staff.  Same system.  Same core players.  And we don't really have any older players that we can worry about a significant regression in their play.  

 

Bottom line, the Buffalo Bills have been good enough to win the Super Bowl the last 4-5 years.  There is every reason they will be good enough again this season.  The only problem is that 4-5 other teams will also be good enough to win it, and we will need to get past them.  Will it happen this year?  Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[billsfan89]

On 8/21/2025 at 2:29 PM, nuklz2594 said:

Thing is...draft ladd and still could've gotten coleman

 

Based on what? We don't really know if other teams would have taken Keon. The Chargers and Pats both took WR's several picks afterwards in early round 2. The Colts took a WR at pick 52. The Bills didn't pick again until pick 60. So there's 3 teams that would have likely considered taking Keon plus a Jets team that took a WR at pick 65 and likely would have considered trading up. I don't know it's just so hard to tell unless you have every teams draft board.

[Mikie2times]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

I'm not the type of person that gets upset with negative opinions, or believes that fans are supposed to be overly optimistic.  But trying to take a realistic/balanced look at this team, I'm just not sure how you think they have regressed.

 

The offense is almost identical to last year's.  The only real difference in the starting lineup is Josh Palmer instead of Amari Cooper (who had virtually no production with us).  And all signs from training camp are that Keon Coleman has drastically improved from his rookie year.  

 

Then the starting defense has basically swapped Von Miller for Joey Bosa, and an old Rasul Douglas for an old Tre White.  At safety, we are hoping that Cole Bishop is able to upgrade Damar Hamlin.

Even if you assume that none of our rookies make an impact, or that Bishop sucks and we are forced to go back to Hamlin -- it's pretty much still the same Buffalo Bills team as last year.  Same core staff.  Same system.  Same core players.  And we don't really have any older players that we can worry about a significant regression in their play.  

 

Bottom line, the Buffalo Bills have been good enough to win the Super Bowl the last 4-5 years.  There is every reason they will be good enough again this season.  The only problem is that 4-5 other teams will also be good enough to win it, and we will need to get past them.  Will it happen this year?  Your guess is as good as mine.

 

Regardless of if you think we will be better or worse, our trajectory is slanted to the 2nd half of the year. Not only will our rookies have half a season at that point, but our suspended players come back as well.

 

They have the potential to be better, but as of week 1 I don't see it. I also don't think this regime or team or whatever has the chops for high level postseason football until I see a clear reason to believe it. One thing that might help is a top 10 defense. But to get that we need so many things to go right and so many not to go wrong. Our depth in the secondary is just terrifying at the moment given Rupp, White, Benford, and Tarons injury history. Even if the defensive line has a break thru how does that secondary hold up? We will need Max or Bishop. 

 

I also understand we have been very close despite these short comings. I'm just not part of the contingent that thinks it's luck how those games concluded. I don't assume if we score in either of the last two years KC doesn't just go down the field as they have before. Nor that teams like Houston or the Bengals are easy playoff wins. I also don't think we have Baltimore's number as some like to think. Lamar in bad weather is bad and we have had him twice in bad weather. Week 1 is going to be different. But sure, we will recover, and then a lot of these questions will get resolved as the year progresses. 

 

 

look at this team as much further than one play. What everybody seems to forget is KC would probably have gotten the ball even if we scored. To me

[Victory Formation]

A poor draft may last for a season, but there’s three more seasons after that. Give it time..

[NoSaint]

On 8/18/2025 at 9:09 AM, Roundybout said:

It's disappointing to be sure, but I believe you can't judge a draft class for five years. That gives you time to see who gets an extension, traded, etc. 

 

yes and no. 
 

part of the value is the 4 years of getting contributions that exceed paychecks. 
 

we just burned one of those years. 
 

further we just paid several guys to fill these roles. Keon is a draft value if we can let Shakir walk, for example. 

5 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

I'm not the type of person that gets upset with negative opinions, or believes that fans are supposed to be overly optimistic.  But trying to take a realistic/balanced look at this team, I'm just not sure how you think they have regressed.

 

The offense is almost identical to last year's.  The only real difference in the starting lineup is Josh Palmer instead of Amari Cooper (who had virtually no production with us).  And all signs from training camp are that Keon Coleman has drastically improved from his rookie year.  

 

Then the starting defense has basically swapped Von Miller for Joey Bosa, and an old Rasul Douglas for an old Tre White.  At safety, we are hoping that Cole Bishop is able to upgrade Damar Hamlin.

Even if you assume that none of our rookies make an impact, or that Bishop sucks and we are forced to go back to Hamlin -- it's pretty much still the same Buffalo Bills team as last year.  Same core staff.  Same system.  Same core players.  And we don't really have any older players that we can worry about a significant regression in their play.  

 

Bottom line, the Buffalo Bills have been good enough to win the Super Bowl the last 4-5 years.  There is every reason they will be good enough again this season.  The only problem is that 4-5 other teams will also be good enough to win it, and we will need to get past them.  Will it happen this year?  Your guess is as good as mine.

 

im not sure running back the entire franchise of the team that lost to the team that was blown out in the Super Bowl does the trick. 
 

frankly last year was the mostly healthy, mostly good bounces year. There’s a good chance they found their high water with this crew already.

[Royale with Cheese]

On 8/21/2025 at 8:55 PM, DCofNC said:

You do understand that you are the only person on earth that has Brown as top 5 at the position, right?  Either way, 1 great pick in 8 seasons and if you want to claim to be right, you have 2.  Mind you, if he was so great as a talent evaluator, you might expect more than 1 in 25 on picks in the 1st 3 rounds.

There’s a few more on this earth….

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/analyst-recognizes-bills-bookend-as-one-nfl-top-performers-up-front
 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2025/02/21/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-spencer-brown-top-101-nfl-players-2024/79789977007/
 

 

[YattaOkasan]

5 hours ago, DCofNC said:

So you mean to tell me, you believe he did more than follow their board in the 3rd, 4th and 6th rounds?  Or he knew he was getting top players at that point in the draft and didn’t bother to pick them in the earlier rounds because he wanted to pay guys who can’t make the field more money?   What is it?  It’s not pure luck, but if he’s so great, why has he only found one outstanding player in the first round, 1 above average RB in the second round and 1 let’s call him “top 10” RTs in the third in 8 tries.  Yes he’s hit on later round picks, that’s great, but why can’t he identify real talent early on?   He’s failed miserably at it and quite honestly, if this board were running the first 2 rounds, the team probably would be more talented at this point.  The only thing he has to hang his hat on is Allen.  It’s the same ***** Pollian did, he got a QB and built mediocre teams around them, forcing the QB to be flawless for the team to win, yet took all the credit for squeaking out a couple championships.

 

Do you think Bellicheck is a great GM because he found Brady in the 6th round?  I’m willing to bet you don’t because it’s obvious he wasn’t and the team was dog crap without the QB. 

So his later picks don’t count?  You only get credit for first round picks?  
 

Draft is a projection game. Those with elite athleticism go earlier cause they project easier and have a higher probability of hitting (also floor/ceilings come into consideration). All that is a way to say yeah you’ll have good players that go late.  Every GM passed up on these players multiple times. Do you hold that against them (every GM needing a corner must stink for missing CB).
 

Your original point was no elite players from Beane (even went as far as saying no one believed Spencer brown was top 5).  Beane isn’t perfect but he’s def top 10 if not top 5. 

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

There’s a few more on this earth….

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/analyst-recognizes-bills-bookend-as-one-nfl-top-performers-up-front
 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2025/02/21/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-spencer-brown-top-101-nfl-players-2024/79789977007/
 

 

Thanks. Love Spencer Brown. Dawkins is fun but I love watching Brown. He hooked me as a rookie against the dolphins when a DB was talking smack and he put his hand at his chin and acted like he couldn’t see him. Can’t wait to see his prime in the coming years. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

6 hours ago, DCofNC said:

It’s the same ***** Pollian did, he got a QB and built mediocre teams around them, forcing the QB to be flawless for the team to win, yet took all the credit for squeaking out a couple championships.

HAHAHAHA... Thurman, Bruce, Andre, LOfton, Beebe, Conlon, Bisquit and others say your wrong

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

HAHAHAHA... Thurman, Bruce, Andre, LOfton, Beebe, Conlon, Bisquit and others say your wrong

Oh does it? When he drafted 1st overall and got Bruce , Peyton, Thurman in what round? Andre in what round? Beebee? Now the real fun, what round did he draft Lofton or Bisquit?  Get your facts straight.  You want to argue Harrison or Freeney or Wayne? Now you have a case.  Otherwise you are a Bills drunk fool.

38 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

So his later picks don’t count?  You only get credit for first round picks?  
 

Draft is a projection game. Those with elite athleticism go earlier cause they project easier and have a higher probability of hitting (also floor/ceilings come into consideration). All that is a way to say yeah you’ll have good players that go late.  Every GM passed up on these players multiple times. Do you hold that against them (every GM needing a corner must stink for missing CB).
 

Your original point was no elite players from Beane (even went as far as saying no one believed Spencer brown was top 5).  Beane isn’t perfect but he’s def top 10 if not top 5. 

Thanks. Love Spencer Brown. Dawkins is fun but I love watching Brown. He hooked me as a rookie against the dolphins when a DB was talking smack and he put his hand at his chin and acted like he couldn’t see him. Can’t wait to see his prime in the coming years. 

Later picks DO COUNT, it’s the only reason he’s employed.  My issue is the lack or elite talent.  Nobody would question him if he was a Roseman type who was hitting on all the 1st round picks, the problem is he wastes pick after pick when the pool is deep.  Don’t tell me you are an elite talent evaluator when you have Elam 5 rounds higher than Benford when Benford has the job 2 weeks into training camp.

[Mike in Horseheads]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Oh does it? When he drafted 1st overall and got Bruce , Peyton, Thurman in what round? Andre in what round? Beebee? Now the real fun, what round did he draft Lofton or Bisquit?  Get your facts straight.  You want to argue Harrison or Freeney or Wayne? Now you have a case.  Otherwise you are a Bills drunk fool.

Building a team includes trades and free agents.  I never said Peyton, you did.