Early returns on 2024 Draft is awful

[jwhit34]

at least 1 year too early to even have a clue on how good the 2024 draft class will be. Check back this time next year and see how the 5 mentioned (Coleman, Bishop, Carter, SVP, Grable) are doing. No one knows at this point including the Bills coaches and Beane. 

[YattaOkasan]

10 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Why would you want to stay outside? In man, inside leverage to the boundary is very standard. In man, he has no help inside and his only help is the boundary,

He has a deep safety and if its cover 1 robber he has Andreesen as well.  Sorta assumed you would send him towards your help.  

 

EDIT: Confirmed assumption.  Unless you think it was a different coverage.  

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2032934-nfl-101-introducing-the-basics-of-cover-1

Edited August 18 by YattaOkasan

[warrior9]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

He has a deep safety and if its cover 1 robber he has Andreesen as well.  Sorta assumed you would send him towards your help.  

Could be right, for sure. Joe looked lost on that play as well. Complete break down.

[dave mcbride]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I think he was. My bad.

 

Regardless he didn't lose on the play because he just got out "athleticismed" he got beat mentally before he got beat physically.

On that play, yeah, but in watching his snaps again, he was mostly fine. Obviously, that's a big play that he gave up, but Hamlin did him no favors on the back end (not that it's an easy play, but man is Hamlin slow/non-quick). 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

On that play, yeah, but in watching his snaps again, he was mostly fine. Obviously, that's a big play that he gave up, but Hamlin did him no favors on the back end (not that it's an easy play, but man is Hamlin slow/non-quick). 

 

But there is one of these major mental breakdowns in coverage every time he is on the field it seems. And yes, Hamlin is a very slow professional athlete. 

[ALLinALLEN]

There were 10 Safeties drafted from rounds 2-5 last year. All of them are solidified starters now except Bishop and Dadrion Taylor-Demerson. 

 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But there is one of these major mental breakdowns in coverage every time he is on the field it seems. And yes, Hamlin is a very slow professional athlete. 

I think you're misremembering the latter part of last season a bit. I don't recall him notably screwing up much if at all. Obviously, he was bad versus Houston, but that was one game very early in his career. I'm not saying he's going to succeed, by the way. I just think it's too early to write the book on him. Safeties have a lot of mental responsibilities in this defense, which I suspect is one of the reasons why I think McDermott prefers vets/guys who have been in the system a while. Shifting from the Pac-12 and missing most of camp was always going to result in some mental errors last season. He IS physically talented, though -- far, far more than Hamlin. I think we should give him some time. Let's see how he's playing when we get to around week 9-10. 

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Keon could salvage it.  IMO Keon has a great season.

 

2nd round pick- Cole Bishop- maybe the light turns on, but he looks lost out there.  He let tiny Xavier Worthy rip the ball out of his hands.  Has me made a great play yet?  Any signs of hope?

 

Carter- probably our weakest lineman.  He would surely be cut if he wasn’t last years third rounder.

 

That’s possible 1 for 3 with our first 3 picks.  .333 is good batting average in baseball, but ***** for top 3 picks.

 

Hopefully Keon steps up, to save this draft from being a disaster.

Cooper DeJean was top value for our pick, and whom I would have drafted.  

Someone needs attention.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think you're misremembering the latter part of last season a bit. I don't recall him notably screwing up much if at all. Obviously, he was bad versus Houston, but that was one game very early in his career. I'm not saying he's going to succeed, by the way. I just think it's too early to write the book on him. Safeties have a lot of mental responsibilities in this defense, which I suspect is one of the reasons why I think McDermott prefers vets/guys who have been in the system a while. Shifting from the Pac-12 and missing most of camp was always going to result in some mental errors last season. He IS physically talented, though -- far, far more than Hamlin. I think we should give him some time. Let's see how he's playing when we get to around week 9-10. 

 

He had an awful mistake in the first half of the AFCCG that gave up a chunk play (think to JuJu) and there was one in one of those last 4 or 5 games as well..... maybe it was New England and didn't matter. Can't recall off top of my head. 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He had an awful mistake in the first half of the AFCCG that gave up a chunk play (think to JuJu) and there was one in one of those last 4 or 5 games as well..... maybe it was New England and didn't matter. Can't recall off top of my head. 

It seemed everyone on D had an awful play vs KC, top to bottom. He did lead the team in tackles (a misleading stat, I know) that game and was in position for the INT (which wouldn't have mattered because there was a defensive penalty anyway).  He started 4 games: Houston and then three of the four final games (Detroit, the first NE game, and the second Jets game). He did not start in the garbage-time finale vs NE but played a fair bit. He didn't play at all against Denver in the playoffs but played 66 percent of the snaps vs. Baltimore after Rapp went down. He started vs. KC. 

 

All I'm saying is that rookie safeties in this system have a lot to handle. Give him a little time. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It seemed everyone on D had an awful play vs KC, top to bottom. He did lead the team in tackles (a misleading stat, I know) that game and was in position for the INT (which wouldn't have mattered because there was a defensive penalty anyway).  He started 4 games: Houston and then three of the four final games (Detroit, the first NE game, and the second Jets game). He did not start in the garbage-time finale vs NE but played a fair bit. He didn't play at all against Denver in the playoffs but played 66 percent of the snaps vs. Baltimore after Rapp went down. He started vs. KC. 

 

All I'm saying is that rookie safeties in this system have a lot to handle. Give him a little time. 

 

I understand that but in order to get the time he has to stop making big back breaking coverage errors. I can live with dialling down what we are asking him to do.... but at the moment I just don't trust him at all not to give up a touchdown play a game in coverage. If I was the coach he wouldn't be out there until I at least didn't think that. I think they are going to start him but he won't have a 9 to 10 week leash. I think it is more like week 5. If he is still making these errors then he will be benched and I think he can have zero complaints. 

[Sojourner]

2 hours ago, blacklabel said:

 

Every time I visit the board after a rough outing and see all these whacky posts my brain automatically starts playing that old "Crying" song by Roy Orbison.

At least it’s not a version of Pretty Woman…

 

Grrrrrrrr-lllllllowwwwww! Mercy!

 

”Pretty poster! On the message board!

Pretty poster! The kind I'd like to beat!
Pretty poster! I don't believe you, you're not the truth! No one could post as good as youuuuuu….”

[mannc]

2 hours ago, finn said:

Bishop may be playing out of position at free safety, which exposes his lack of range, coverage skills, and grasp of the defense. He might do better at strong safety where his physicality would be a real asset. Sure does look like a poor draft pick, especially with Cooper DeJean falling out of the first round. Too early to tell about Carter, I'd say, but it doesn't look like he'll be a star, that's for sure. Coleman, Davis, Solomon, and Grable might salvage this class, though. 

Cooper DeJean was NOT on the board when Bishop was selected.  And it’s way too early to have any kind of opinion on Bishop…you should know that by now.

[Sojourner]

42 minutes ago, ALLinALLEN said:

There were 10 Safeties drafted from rounds 2-5 last year. All of them are solidified starters now except Bishop and Dadrion Taylor-Demerson. 

 

Bullock and Mustahpa look are the top there that we could have had at that pick. Bullard looks to be a potential stud. Tykee Smith looks to be an average starter at worst.  Hicks showed some quality last season in rotational use, as did Evan Williams. 
 

Need Bishop to transform if he’s going to be the starter. He wasn’t awful but the return was less than what many of us expected/hoped for. Got faith he’ll get it right. 

[eball]

Good thread.  Most people grade a draft after one season.

 

[Pete]

I’d keep Zion over Carter.  He’s much better against the run.  It’s not like Carter excels at Pass Rush 

[finn]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

Cooper DeJean was NOT on the board when Bishop was selected.  And it’s way too early to have any kind of opinion on Bishop…you should know that by now.

I didn't say he was. I said he was dropped out of the first round, meaning that Beane could have moved up to pick him after he took Coleman. In hindsight, giving up the third to move up would have worked out, since Carter has disappointed so far. I would trade Bishop and Carter right now for DeJean, wouldn't you? 

[ShakAttack]

On the subject of safeties, has anyone been watching Forrest? Thought he might have been a decent backup plan. But I am not hearing much about him one way or another

[gonzo1105]

3 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Looked like cover 1 robber to me (Andreessen is def in a hook to curl).  It was def MoFC.  If it was Cover 3 would you expect the outside CBs to be getting more depth and be trying to identify threats?  Dane Jackson slow plays the release of the WR at the bottom of the screen.  Maybe im missing it.

 

 

It was Cover 1. It’s very clear on film. Watch Dorian Williams. One back set and Williams attacks down hill on the RB when he releases to his side. Andreessen doesn’t have his head on a swivel pinching down on the strong side 3 WR set  because in Man on a one back set he is responsible for either the QB or the RB  depending which side the RB goes. Williams takes the back and Andreessen locks onto the QB. Hamlin is 25 yards deep keeping everything over the top of them while the rest of the DBs are pressed up. The only thing interesting is it looked like they decided to switch off(Banjo it) between Bishop and the other DB. There is no way that that was zone coverage 

Edited August 18 by gonzo1105

[Buffalo03]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Keon could salvage it.  IMO Keon has a great season.

 

2nd round pick- Cole Bishop- maybe the light turns on, but he looks lost out there.  He let tiny Xavier Worthy rip the ball out of his hands.  Has me made a great play yet?  Any signs of hope?

 

Carter- probably our weakest lineman.  He would surely be cut if he wasn’t last years third rounder.

 

That’s possible 1 for 3 with our first 3 picks.  .333 is good batting average in baseball, but ***** for top 3 picks.

 

Hopefully Keon steps up, to save this draft from being a disaster.

Cooper DeJean was top value for our pick, and whom I would have drafted.  

For what it's worth....that was an INT he had. It was clear on the replay. Of course the refs decided to....you know