Does there need to be a rethinking of the basic D?

[T.E.]

8 hours ago, MJS said:

They aren't sitting in zone. They are playing a ton of man coverage and blitzing a lot. You "soft zone" complainers don't even know what you are looking at.

If they're truly blitzing a lot, then they're the worst team in NFL history at it.

[Mister Defense]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

But how’s it stand up in the playoffs? That’s where you win Championships.

 

D hasn’t been good late in games protecting leads either. 

 

Well, playing against one of the best teams in NFL history, with one of the best QBS, head coaches, and offensive coaches/play callers, has gotten almost all the other teams.

 

Don't you think that not having key players the last few years was more of the problem than the scheme or anything else?  For example, the last two years. Last year they had no starting safety, Rapp, and no starting CB, Benford, after only a few plays.  The Chiefs passing game came alive, but of course they did, a 'duh' there.

 

Wouldn't those significant player losses, in maybe the most important part of the team when playing against these chiefs--see bold above--likely have been the problem?  When more healthy during the regular season, Buffalo has had their number, consistently--only team in the NFL to do so too.

 

 

 

Edited August 20 by Mister Defense

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which games have the Bills lost late protecting leads? The only I remember was Vikings at home 2 years ago and the defense got the stop. It was on Morse and Josh botching the snap for a safety.

Really, How about watching Mac Jones walk down the field on us in the last 2 minutes a couple years ago.l? How about the Denver game? What about the Eagles? 13 second? Jesus Christ last year against the Ravens in the playoffs they walked down and scored with ease, it took and Ingram drop to save us. D wasn’t even close to make the play. Turn your blinders off bud.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Really, How about watching Mac Jones walk down the field on us in the last 2 minutes a couple years ago.l? How about the Denver game? What about the Eagles? 13 second? Jesus Christ last year against the Ravens in the playoffs they walked down and scored with ease, it took and Ingram drop to save us. D wasn’t even close to make the play. Turn your blinders off bud.

 

Fair, the Mac Jones game was a disaster class I have wiped from my memory. The Denver game is also fair, as is the Eagles. I forgot how far ahead we were in that Eagles game. 

 

It was a particular issue in 2023. I don't think it has generally been an issue, but yep, that season we were bad at holding leads.

Edited August 20 by GunnerBill

[frostbitmic]

To my eyes the Defense looks the same whether Frazier was running it or whether Babich runs it because it's McD's Defense. It's the same soft shell that allows receivers to run free and settle into an open spot for easy completions, where then we have to hope that we can tackle the receiver. There were issues with that in Chicago.

 

Sometimes I think they forget that as long as they don't hold, they're pretty much allowed to abuse the receivers within 5 yards of the LOS. Our DB's unfortunately are always going backwards to get into their shell at the snap. Knocking a receiver or two off their mark at the line would help give our DE's more time to get to the QB.

 

Year after year I have more confidence in our Defense on 3rd and 1 than on 3rd and 10.

[Big Turk]

There needs to be players that make plays in big games in the playoffs when it matters. 

 

Why are the capable of making those plays against the Ravens but not against the Chiefs?

 

That's the question.

 

And why are they able to consistently make those plays against the Chiefs during the regular season but not in the playoffs.

 

That's the bigger question.  

 

If their D simply played like they do against the Chiefs in the regular season in the playoffs, Bills would have already been to at least 2 Super Bowls.

[Gunsgoodtime]

My ex always said the D was too small

[nosejob]

19 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

To my eyes the Defense looks the same whether Frazier was running it or whether Babich runs it because it's McD's Defense. It's the same soft shell that allows receivers to run free and settle into an open spot for easy completions, where then we have to hope that we can tackle the receiver. There were issues with that in Chicago.

 

Sometimes I think they forget that as long as they don't hold, they're pretty much allowed to abuse the receivers within 5 yards of the LOS. Our DB's unfortunately are always going backwards to get into their shell at the snap. Knocking a receiver or two off their mark at the line would help give our DE's more time to get to the QB.

 

Year after year I have more confidence in our Defense on 3rd and 1 than on 3rd and 10.

I thought it was Frazier but guess I'm wrong. I've been sick of the tired old rush fo only crap for years.  It's simple math. 4 rushing 6 (TE also maybe chip from back) does not seem difficult. No wrinkles ever. No new, ahead of the curve things ever. Same old 90's Dave Wannstendt (sp?) defense....and don't give me the learned under June Jones crap.

 

If I'm running the D, I'm sending someone on every play.  Base 4-3.....take turns sending a LB.  A  5-2-4 if I can play man and even in nickel, I'm sending somebody.

Will we ever see any innovation?

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

To my eyes the Defense looks the same whether Frazier was running it or whether Babich runs it

 

I promise you there have been specific differences between the way Leslie called the D, the way McD called the D and the way Babich has called the D. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I promise you there have been specific differences between the way Leslie called the D, the way McD called the D and the way Babich has called the D. 

 

What is Babich's style or tendencies?

[nosejob]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I promise you there have been specific differences between the way Leslie called the D, the way McD called the D and the way Babich has called the D. 

Name one. This year like every one falls on McD.   There will be no assistant for a fall guy this year.

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, nosejob said:

I thought it was Frazier but guess I'm wrong. I've been sick of the tired old rush fo only crap for years.  It's simple math. 4 rushing 6 (TE also maybe chip from back) does not seem difficult. No wrinkles ever. No new, ahead of the curve things ever. Same old 90's Dave Wannstendt (sp?) defense....and don't give me the learned under June Jones crap.

 

If I'm running the D, I'm sending someone on every play.  Base 4-3.....take turns sending a LB.  A  5-2-4 if I can play man and even in nickel, I'm sending somebody.

Will we ever see any innovation?

There are some pretty obvious reasons why not to do that though.  Good QBs are very good at beating the blitz cause they can sniff it out and there are less players in coverage.  This is why the Eagles didnt blitz once against Mahomes.  Additionally, when the Bengals were able to to styme the Chiefs in the second half of the 2022 AFC Championship game, it was because they only sent 3 man pressures.  All that said the bill have been sending more pressure and playing more man both at the end of last season and this preseason.  We just arent very good at it (yet).  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

There are some pretty obvious reasons why not to do that though.  Good QBs are very good at beating the blitz cause they can sniff it out and there are less players in coverage.  This is why the Eagles didnt blitz once against Mahomes.  Additionally, when the Bengals were able to to styme the Chiefs in the second half of the 2022 AFC Championship game, it was because they only sent 3 man pressures.  All that said the bill have been sending more pressure and playing more man both at the end of last season and this preseason.  We just arent very good at it (yet).  

 

Very true statements.  When we blitz, or when mahomes knows buffalo is in man - he has consistently hurt the team scrambling.  It's getting pressure through the DTs, and proper containment and clean-up from the edges.  He makes mistakes when under pressure, and usually when he can't buy time.  

[nosejob]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

There are some pretty obvious reasons why not to do that though.  Good QBs are very good at beating the blitz cause they can sniff it out and there are less players in coverage.  This is why the Eagles didnt blitz once against Mahomes.  Additionally, when the Bengals were able to to styme the Chiefs in the second half of the 2022 AFC Championship game, it was because they only sent 3 man pressures.  All that said the bill have been sending more pressure and playing more man both at the end of last season and this preseason.  We just arent very good at it (yet).  

Hence the need to be creative. My point on sending pressure is just as much about run blitzing....not letting blockers get to the second level. If that happens this year, our 2ndary will get bulldozed. TFLs are gonna need to be there.   I'm not looking forward to that 300 lb. FB and Henry on week 1.  I do believe we've upgraded on the line, just not sure how that's gonna start out. If we built a line like the Giants did, I would think different.

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, nosejob said:

Hence the need to be creative. My point on sending pressure is just as much about run blitzing....not letting blockers get to the second level. If that happens this year, our 2ndary will get bulldozed. TFLs are gonna need to be there.   I'm not looking forward to that 300 lb. FB and Henry on week 1.  I do believe we've upgraded on the line, just not sure how that's gonna start out. If we built a line like the Giants did, I would think different.

I do think McD hasnt been shy with run blitzes in the past because they are so small.  I think i remember this particularly being a strategy against the Ravens in like 2019.  I agree about concerns with the new line starting out against the Ravens.  I really wanted that game after the suspension were up.  Hoecht in particular plays a physical style that would be good against the Ravens. Hoping Sanders and Walker really get their anchors sorted cause Ravens will def try to play bully ball.  

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, T.E. said:

If they're truly blitzing a lot, then they're the worst team in NFL history at it.

A few observations:

- Tre Edmunds was one of the worst blitzers I’ve ever seen. That’s not hyperbole. If there was a free OLman, he’d find him. I always assumed it was him and not coaching. Let’s hope that was the case.

- While under McDermott the Bills haven’t been effective running inside blitzes, they’ve done well with outside blitzes, especially by DBs.

-  You can have very effective safety play from smart/savvy players with average athleticism as long as you’re in Cover 2 or higher types of coverage. 

- Cover 1 and 0 require much better athleticism on the part of safeties. They’re also blitzes. 

- Reading that all leads me to believe this why there is a push for better/more athletic safety play because McDermott wants to blitz more this season. 

Edited August 20 by BarleyNY

[nuklz2594]

I miss our 3-4 days.

[YattaOkasan]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

A few observations:

- Tre Edmunds was one of the worst blitzers I’ve ever seen. That’s not hyperbole. If there was a free OLman, he’d find him. I always assumed it was him and not coaching. Let’s hope that was the case.

- While under McDermott the Bills haven’t been effective running inside blitzes, they’ve done well with outside blitzes, especially by DBs.

-  You can have very effective safety play from smart/savvy players with average athleticism as long as you’re in Cover 2 or higher types of coverage. 

- Cover 1 and 0 require much better athleticism on the part of safeties. They’re also blitzes. 

- Reading that all leads me to believe this why there is a push for better/more athletic safety play because McDermott wants to blitz more this season. 

So youre still on board for Edgemunds? lol.  His ineffectiveness at the blitz is why i thought moving him to edge was silly.  

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Fair, the Mac Jones game was a disaster class I have wiped from my memory. The Denver game is also fair, as is the Eagles. I forgot how far ahead we were in that Eagles game. 

 

It was a particular issue in 2023. I don't think it has generally been an issue, but yep, that season we were bad at holding leads.

There has also been a number of games we lost down one score and the D wasn’t able to make a stop to get the ball back and the opposing team just ran the clock out. 

[tigerthelion]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

There needs to be players that make plays in big games in the playoffs when it matters. 

 

Why are the capable of making those plays against the Ravens but not against the Chiefs?

 

That's the question.

 

And why are they able to consistently make those plays against the Chiefs during the regular season but not in the playoffs.

 

That's the bigger question.  

 

If their D simply played like they do against the Chiefs in the regular season in the playoffs, Bills would have already been to at least 2 Super Bowls.

I agree that they need players to make big time plays in big time games.  You can't just pluck a Chris Jones off of a tree, of course but someone somewhat like that would be nice.  Someone who seems to always be making a play to tilt a game in his team's favour in the fourth quarter.  Maybe Von could have been that if he stayed healthy. The margins in the playoffs are so thin, that I think sometimes you just need one or two big plays to decide a game. 

 

I think the answer to your second question is Lamar vs Mahomes.  Mahomes simply doesn't make the mistakes that Lamar does in the playoffs.  You can't rely on Mahomes giving up free turnovers in the playoffs.  Lamar Jackson is still too careless with the ball in the playoffs, as his turnovers were mostly from his own doing, IMO.  

 

I think the Chiefs hold back their playbook quite a bit in the regular season games against Buffalo, to be honest.  In the playoffs, everything is fair game in the playbook and Reid isn't afraid to call any play.