WGR Discussing McD's job security

[Buffalo Boy]

8 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Well said Muppy. I agree completely. Very similar to the situation in Pittsburgh with Tomlin. 
 

He has his warts but for the most part the team is very successful with the rosters/teams they put out each year. Might get a guy who makes the super bowls consistently but might be in and out. 
 

The real question about a coaching change should come if we still can’t get to the Super Bowl and the Pats and Jets improve within these next two seasons to be contending for division champs. 
 

The leash is getting shorter for McD and realistically it needs to but in the bigger picture with the way coaching changes work out, we may end up worse off in the course of Josh’s final 7-10 years. 

   My chiropractor is a huge Steelers fan.  He can’t stand Tomlin like some of us can’t stand McD.

   Last visit, we chatted about would Tomlin have won a SB with Josh and we both agreed Yes. Tomlin would have more defensive answers in the big games. Tomlin wouldn’t get owned five years in a row by the Bengals and Chiefs. His defensive acumen would be the difference. McD’s lack of it in the biggest moments is the difference.

[GaryPinC]

15 hours ago, muppy said:

To me the WHO to replace Coach McDermott would be the crux of the matter. 

You KNOW that guy will have even a shorter leash  to succeed.

It he could  that would would of course be great.

Or it fails and then the "we should have never fired McDermott" teeth gnashing will be loud and be insufferable

and begins a coaching change Merry go round.

 

there are no guarantees no matter how badly we want one.

 

 

Unfortunately there is a black and white mentality with McD and the FO.  Firing is not the only option.  McD changed his approach to offense (less conservative) over the years, it's time he needs to do so to the defense, and quickly.  Beane can't seem to draft game-changing DL, but he's done a great job bringing in talent in other areas (QB**,OL, RB, DB).  He needs to consider how he can draft better DL talent (new scouts)?

 

Perspective: 

At the end of Kelly's seventh year with the Bills, we had just lost our fourth Super Bowl in a row. 

 

Josh turns 30 next May.  With his passion for the game, he should be at or near the top for at least the next 2-3 years, it would seem reasonable he can be highly effective until age 35.

 

That's 6 more seasons.  Most likely we lose Josh for at least one of those to serious injury.  So 5  more.

 

We're running out of time.  Continuous improvement has hit a pothole in our FO, do they understand the urgency?  If they do, great!  Definitely don't want to change them.  But I have no confidence that McD will be willing to change his defensive sacred cow and do the little things to pull out all the stops to beat the playoff teams.

 

What little things?  Bringing Micah Hyde in earlier to accelerate Cole's development.  Finding an Ernie Adams to help him stay on top of in-game decisions and/or tweak his defensive system.  Poaching an up and coming D-line scout from somebody like Philly.

 

I'm very happy with the quality of culture we have, but I feel like after 7 years game day is not working when it counts and as fans we need to push them a bit to take a harder look at adjusting some of the finer points instead of just hoping enough talent magically clicks one of these years.

 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   My chiropractor is a huge Steelers fan.  He can’t stand Tomlin like some of us can’t stand McD.

   Last visit, we chatted about would Tomlin have won a SB with Josh and we both agreed Yes. Tomlin would have more defensive answers in the big games. Tomlin wouldn’t get owned five years in a row by the Bengals and Chiefs. His defensive acumen would be the difference. McD’s lack of it in the biggest moments is the difference.

 

Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since McDermott became the Bills HC.   In his last four playoff losses, Tomlin's teams have been lost in the Wild card round to Cleveland, Kansas City, Buffalo, and Baltimore by 149-89.   

 

[muppy]

3 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

Unfortunately there is a black and white mentality with McD and the FO.  Firing is not the only option.  McD changed his approach to offense (less conservative) over the years, it's time he needs to do so to the defense, and quickly.  Beane can't seem to draft game-changing DL, but he's done a great job bringing in talent in other areas (QB**,OL, RB, DB).  He needs to consider how he can draft better DL talent (new scouts)?

 

Perspective: 

At the end of Kelly's seventh year with the Bills, we had just lost our fourth Super Bowl in a row. 

 

Josh turns 30 next May.  With his passion for the game, he should be at or near the top for at least the next 2-3 years, it would seem reasonable he can be highly effective until age 35.

 

That's 6 more seasons.  Most likely we lose Josh for at least one of those to serious injury.  So 5  more.

 

We're running out of time.  Continuous improvement has hit a pothole in our FO, do they understand the urgency?  If they do, great!  Definitely don't want to change them.  But I have no confidence that McD will be willing to change his defensive sacred cow and do the little things to pull out all the stops to beat the playoff teams.

 

What little things?  Bringing Micah Hyde in earlier to accelerate Cole's development.  Finding an Ernie Adams to help him stay on top of in-game decisions and/or tweak his defensive system.  Poaching an up and coming D-line scout from somebody like Philly.

 

I'm very happy with the quality of culture we have, but I feel like after 7 years game day is not working when it counts and as fans we need to push them a bit to take a harder look at adjusting some of the finer points instead of just hoping enough talent magically clicks one of these years.

 

this is a great post Im bumping it Concur.

[Buffalo Boy]

36 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since McDermott became the Bills HC.   In his last four playoff losses, Tomlin's teams have been lost in the Wild card round to Cleveland, Kansas City, Buffalo, and Baltimore by 149-89.   

 

With Ancient Roethlisberger, Rudolph and Spent Wilson.

Give him Josh of the last five years and they aren’t even playing in the wildcard most if not all of those years.

 

Or, give those QBs to the Bills and ?

[ChattanoogaBills]

19 hours ago, muppy said:

To me the WHO to replace Coach McDermott would be the crux of the matter. 

You KNOW that guy will have even a shorter leash  to succeed.

It he could  that would would of course be great.

Or it fails and then the "we should have never fired McDermott" teeth gnashing will be loud and be insufferable

and begins a coaching change Merry go round.

 

there are no guarantees no matter how badly we want one.

 

 

I think Bill belicheck would be a definite replacement candidate that would love to stick it to kraft... I don't get why bills fans aren't screaming for Belicheat.

[Mikie2times]

8 hours ago, muppy said:

I think if Josh Allen believes and trusts in McDermott , he stays

 

If for whatever reason #17 thinks a change is in order he will be fired.

 

I cannot believe the Bills would act contrary to Josh Allens  wishes in the matter.

 

It's obvious really. Who wants to upset #17? How would he handle a coaching change? With class and dignity of course.  UNLESS he wasn't in favor of it

 

I think it's up to #17. I could be  wrong.

dude u know this IS the year right? Then all this talk of a coaching change will be MOOT

 

Lombardi 2025  or bust. Just saying 

 

PS: COVID rampant all over San Diego be aware. Its no joke.

 

m

Heading to Michigan next week! Hopefully I can avoid the Ick flying....

 

I don't think Josh is the type of player or person who would ever sign off on his HC being canned. Hopefully we can just bag one this year and be done with this conversation forever. The misconception a lot of have on this topic is the more "Pro Fire" posters not wanting McD to be successful. That is all they want. I don't see any reason why any posters would hold anything personal on this topic. We just want to get to a Super Bowl (and hopefully win one).

Edited August 10 by Mikie2times

[muppy]

21 minutes ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

I think Bill belicheck would be a definite replacement candidate that would love to stick it to kraft... I don't get why bills fans aren't screaming for Belicheat.

hmm well now I could give you a few reasons.

 

The only thing I like about him is his dog 

 

he is a nemesis. can he be OUR nemesis to other teams? Oh My Gosh Now you've said it. It's out there.

 

OH MY

[ChattanoogaBills]

On 6/28/2025 at 9:51 AM, nuklz2594 said:

1 hour ago, muppy said:

hmm well now I could give you a few reasons.

 

The only thing I like about him is his dog 

 

he is a nemesis. can he be OUR nemesis to other teams? Oh My Gosh Now you've said it. It's out there.

 

OH MY

 

I'm sick of never winning a super bowl.  How about you and the rest of bills mafia. He was a nemesis now I'd say the enemy of my enemy is a friend.  

A couple of super bowl wins here and he'd be revered and the look on patsies fans faces would be comical.

Edited August 10 by ChattanoogaBills

[muppy]

25 minutes ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

I'm sick of never winning a super bowl.  How about you and the rest of bills mafia. He was a nemesis now I'd say the enemy of my enemy is a friend.  

A couple of super bowl wins here and he'd be revered and the look on patsies fans faces would be comical.

I hear you. But it's all hypothetical. Do you know if he even want to coach again?

 

I mean your point is valid. Noone would argue what you said was false.

 

I may be more elder in my fandom than yourself.  That really doesn't matter either.

 

Lets just say I am happy in my life even if we don't win a Lombardi trophy in my lifetime

 

Yeah I want a ring  though.  of course duh. m

 

 

[uticaclub]

If McDermott were coaching this year's New Orleans Saints, they would not make the playoffs. If Josh Allen were their QB, they probably would.

[Neo]

Tony Dungy built a great football culture and team.   John Gruden won a Super Bowl with the culture and the team.

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

With Ancient Roethlisberger, Rudolph and Spent Wilson.

Give him Josh of the last five years and they aren’t even playing in the wildcard most if not all of those years.

 

Or, give those QBs to the Bills and ?

 

The Steelers chose to not prioritize finding a successor to Roethlisberger for the last decade.  The Steelers could have Lamar who was taken #32 in 2018.   They could have taken Jalen Hurts who was still available in Round 2 in 2020.  They might have been able to trade up in 2024 draft.  As a long-time HC, Tomlin had to have considerable influence on the Steelers' personnel decisions, so I'm not going to give him a pass for his team having crappy QB play since 2018.   The Steelers demonstrated absolutely no planning for the inevitable end of Roethlisberger's career.   They do not seem to even tried to do so. 

 

Tomlin's philosophy of strong defense, strong running game, and decent QB play no longer works in the modern NFL.   Teams without franchise QBs are doomed to mediocrity no matter how good the rest of team.  McDermott recognized that from the get-go.  He gets dissed because he passed on Mahomes in 2017, but there were extenuating circumstances, notably that the Bills GM position was in disarray prior to the 2017 draft.   Beane and McDermott got it right the next year.  McDermott also hired Daboll as his OC to develop a QB in 2017, and then he hired Dorsey specifically to work with Allen in 2018.

 

FYI

• In the 2016 playoffs, the Steelers got their asses kicked by the Patriots, 36-17.  Their response was to draft a QB late in the fourth round of the 2017 draft, Josh Dobbs.
• In the 2017 playoffs, the Steelers spotted the Jaguars 14 points to lose 45-42 in the divisional round.  That was Roethlisberger's 14th NFL season.   Their response was to pass on Lamar Jackson for a DB and take Mason Rudolph in the third round.
• The Steelers missed the playoffs in 2018.   Roethlisberger passed for 5129 yards, 34 TDs, and 16 INTs.  That was Roethlisberger's 15th NFL season.
• In 2019, the Steelers missed the playoffs again because Roethlisberger was injured in the 2nd game of the season, and didn't play again that season.  The Steelers didn't have a first round pick in the 2020 draft because they had traded it to Miami in 2018 to acquire Minkah Fitzpatrick.  With their 2nd rounder, they drafted Chase Claypool with Jalen Hurts still available.
• Roethlisberger won the Comeback Player of the Year in 2020, the Steelers made the playoffs, but they lost to the Browns, 48-37, after falling behind 28-0 in the first quarter.   The Steelers drafted Kenny Pickett at #21 in the 2021 draft.
• In 2021, Roethlisberger and the Steelers staggered into the playoffs as a wild card team, and the Chiefs buried them. That was Roethlisberger's 18th and last season.
• In 2022, Pickett's first year as a starter, the Steelers missed the playoffs.
• In 2023, the Steelers made the wild card with Pickett, but the Bills bounced them 31-17 in the wild card. The Steelers signed Russell Wilson as a FA in 2024 and traded Pickett to the Eagles.   They did not draft a QB in the 2024 draft, although 6 went in the first round.
• In 2024, the Steelers made the wild card with Wilson, but the Ravens beat them 28-14.   The Steelers allowed Wilson to leave in free agency and pursued 41-year-old Aaron Rodgers who was unimpressive in 2024 after coming off his Achilles injuries.  They did not draft a QB in 2025 until the 6th round.

3 hours ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

I think Bill belicheck would be a definite replacement candidate that would love to stick it to kraft... I don't get why bills fans aren't screaming for Belicheat.

 

Belichick woud want to have control of personnel, and that's not something I would want the Bills to do.   The Pats built their dynasty when they had good personnel people like Pioli assisting Belichick, but when those advisors left, the Pats missed on a lot of their draft picks, which is why they were so bereft of talent in Belichick's last couple of years.

Edited August 10 by SoTier

[Augie]

6 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since McDermott became the Bills HC.   In his last four playoff losses, Tomlin's teams have been lost in the Wild card round to Cleveland, Kansas City, Buffalo, and Baltimore by 149-89.   

 

 

Yeah, but…the chiropractor’s opinion….

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, Neo said:

Tony Dungy built a great football culture and team.   John Gruden won a Super Bowl with the culture and the team.

John Fox took the Broncos to 4 consecutive division titles and a Super Bowl...they fired him after another divisional loss and won the Super Bowl the very next season

 

[Tierlifer]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Yeah, but…the chiropractor’s opinion….

Hopefully he was able to grab a few bent pens from the office after getting his opinion. 

[thenorthremembers]

12 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   My chiropractor is a huge Steelers fan.  He can’t stand Tomlin like some of us can’t stand McD.

   Last visit, we chatted about would Tomlin have won a SB with Josh and we both agreed Yes. Tomlin would have more defensive answers in the big games. Tomlin wouldn’t get owned five years in a row by the Bengals and Chiefs. His defensive acumen would be the difference. McD’s lack of it in the biggest moments is the difference.

 

Tomlin took a team that had already won a Super Bowl three years earlier back to the Super Bowl and won.    Since then he's missed the playoffs 6 of 16 years.   McDermott has missed the playoffs 1 time in 8 years and everyone thinks he is a failure.    McDermott has had his fair share of bad moments in his time here.  That said, Allen and the offense had over 3 minutes left to either win or tie a game during the AFC Title game last year and didnt do it.   A lot of elite QBs make that happen.   Why didnt he make the line adjust to protect against the blitz?  The failures of this team have been just that team failures.    Mike Tomlin took over a very good team with a future hall of fame QB.  McDermott took over a complete crap show and brought a future hall of fame QB here.   He deserves a lot more credit than he gets. 

Edited August 11 by thenorthremembers

[RoscoeParrish]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The Steelers chose to not prioritize finding a successor to Roethlisberger for the last decade.  The Steelers could have Lamar who was taken #32 in 2018.   They could have taken Jalen Hurts who was still available in Round 2 in 2020.  They might have been able to trade up in 2024 draft.  As a long-time HC, Tomlin had to have considerable influence on the Steelers' personnel decisions, so I'm not going to give him a pass for his team having crappy QB play since 2018.   The Steelers demonstrated absolutely no planning for the inevitable end of Roethlisberger's career.   They do not seem to even tried to do so. 

 

Tomlin's philosophy of strong defense, strong running game, and decent QB play no longer works in the modern NFL.   Teams without franchise QBs are doomed to mediocrity no matter how good the rest of team.  McDermott recognized that from the get-go.  He gets dissed because he passed on Mahomes in 2017, but there were extenuating circumstances, notably that the Bills GM position was in disarray prior to the 2017 draft.   Beane and McDermott got it right the next year.  McDermott also hired Daboll as his OC to develop a QB in 2017, and then he hired Dorsey specifically to work with Allen in 2018.

 

FYI

• In the 2016 playoffs, the Steelers got their asses kicked by the Patriots, 36-17.  Their response was to draft a QB late in the fourth round of the 2017 draft, Josh Dobbs.
• In the 2017 playoffs, the Steelers spotted the Jaguars 14 points to lose 45-42 in the divisional round.  That was Roethlisberger's 14th NFL season.   Their response was to pass on Lamar Jackson for a DB and take Mason Rudolph in the third round.
• The Steelers missed the playoffs in 2018.   Roethlisberger passed for 5129 yards, 34 TDs, and 16 INTs.  That was Roethlisberger's 15th NFL season.
• In 2019, the Steelers missed the playoffs again because Roethlisberger was injured in the 2nd game of the season, and didn't play again that season.  The Steelers didn't have a first round pick in the 2020 draft because they had traded it to Miami in 2018 to acquire Minkah Fitzpatrick.  With their 2nd rounder, they drafted Chase Claypool with Jalen Hurts still available.
• Roethlisberger won the Comeback Player of the Year in 2020, the Steelers made the playoffs, but they lost to the Browns, 48-37, after falling behind 28-0 in the first quarter.   The Steelers drafted Kenny Pickett at #21 in the 2021 draft.
• In 2021, Roethlisberger and the Steelers staggered into the playoffs as a wild card team, and the Chiefs buried them. That was Roethlisberger's 18th and last season.
• In 2022, Pickett's first year as a starter, the Steelers missed the playoffs.
• In 2023, the Steelers made the wild card with Pickett, but the Bills bounced them 31-17 in the wild card. The Steelers signed Russell Wilson as a FA in 2024 and traded Pickett to the Eagles.   They did not draft a QB in the 2024 draft, although 6 went in the first round.
• In 2024, the Steelers made the wild card with Wilson, but the Ravens beat them 28-14.   The Steelers allowed Wilson to leave in free agency and pursued 41-year-old Aaron Rodgers who was unimpressive in 2024 after coming off his Achilles injuries.  They did not draft a QB in 2025 until the 6th round.

 

Belichick woud want to have control of personnel, and that's not something I would want the Bills to do.   The Pats built their dynasty when they had good personnel people like Pioli assisting Belichick, but when those advisors left, the Pats missed on a lot of their draft picks, which is why they were so bereft of talent in Belichick's last couple of years.

This is a very interesting post. Do we want McD and co to be drafting a 1st round QB, even trading up to do so, in Josh Allen’s 14th season?

 

That’s only 6 years away. Here I thought the SB window had plenty of time, this post makes it seem like we are on the back nine already.

Edited August 11 by RoscoeParrish

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Tomlin took a team that had already won a Super Bowl three years earlier back to the Super Bowl and won.    Since then he's missed the playoffs 6 of 16 years.   McDermott has missed the playoffs 1 time in 8 years and everyone thinks he is a failure.    McDermott has had his fair share of bad moments in his time here.  That said, Allen and the offense had over 3 minutes left to either win or tie a game during the AFC Title game last year and didnt do it.   A lot of elite QBs make that happen.   Why didnt he make the line adjust to protect against the blitz?  The failures of this team have been just that team failures.    Mike Tomlin took over a very good team with a future hall of fame QB.  McDermott took over a complete crap show and brought a future hall of fame QB here.   He deserves a lot more credit than he gets. 

This is repeated a lot here and it's false

 

McDermott took over a .500 team. They weren't a 'complete crap show'. He managed exactly one more win in his first three seasons than than Marrone/Ryan had in their proceeding three. Then Allen went supernova and here we are

 

Also I see you trying to give McDermott and not Beane credit for drafting Allen😂😂

[LABILLBACKER]

14 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   My chiropractor is a huge Steelers fan.  He can’t stand Tomlin like some of us can’t stand McD.

   Last visit, we chatted about would Tomlin have won a SB with Josh and we both agreed Yes. Tomlin would have more defensive answers in the big games. Tomlin wouldn’t get owned five years in a row by the Bengals and Chiefs. His defensive acumen would be the difference. McD’s lack of it in the biggest moments is the difference.

Defensively,  Tomlin could coach circles around Derm.