Does Thurman Thomas Get His Due? (Offseason rehash topic)

[folz]

9 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Not enough people talk about Earl Campbell imo. His career was cut a bit short, but; in his prime he was as good as anybody.

 

Jmo.

 

8 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I'll see your Earl Campbell and raise you Marcus Allen. He is the best comp for Thurman because, in his prime years, he also caught a lot of balls. Also, people have forgotten Eric Dickerson. So I guess my bigger point is that guys don't get their due because there were a lot of great RBs back then.

 

7 hours ago, Pete said:

Billy Simms

 

Bo Jackson is greatest athlete I’ve ever seen.  A top NFL and MLB player.  He still holds records in both leagues.  He averaged 5.4 yards a carry in career.  Bo had one of greatest OF arms I’ve ever seen.  
 

Bill- did you catch the 30 for 30 on Bo?  He was shooting crossbow bullseyes from good distance, shot with his feet.  Other world athlete.

 

How about Eric Dickerson?  He gets not enough respect 

 

 

You guys are right that it isn't just Thurman. Lots of other great backs, like you mentioned, get overlooked/not talked about much too. 

 

I was a huge Earl Campbell fan as a kid. Didn't root for Marcus Allen as much because of the teams he played for, but loved watching him play. Dickerson definitely doesn't get talked about enough anymore. Billy Simms is a guy that I even forget about, but he was a stud (again, shortish career). And what could have been if Bo didn't get injured. The guy only played 38 games over four seasons and is still every bit the legend for those who watched him play (pure specimen). So, many great backs over the years, without even mentioning the normal guys brought up in GOAT conversations (Brown, Simpson, Sanders, Payton, Smith, etc.), or even the players from older generations. I guess to a certain extent, all glory eventually fades.

 

And good point by skibum about Faulk, LT, and James coming right on the heels of Thurman, which probably took away a bit of his shine because they were great all-purpose backs too. So, maybe Thurm's skills didn't look quite as unique as they did earlier in his career (not that Thurm was the first either in that regard, with guys like Marcus Allen and even Roger Craig before him). 

 

And obviously the Super Bowl performances (lack of a SB win) weighs in too.

 

Guess I was just a bit hyped watching old Thurman highlights and thinking about that great stretch that he had (averaging 1,919 scrimmage yards per season over a 5-year period). [And obviously the fact that he played for the Bills probably adds a little "thumb on the scale" increase/bias for me.]

 

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

What a timely thread. I was rewatching Bills KC with Kelly, Thurman, Bruce, Montana, and Allen. 

I almost started a thread on most underappreciated HOF players. 

Marcus Allen doesn't get nearly enough publicity or recognition amongst the greats of all time.  My guess is because so many dual threat RBs came in quick succession with Faulk, James, and Tomlinson. But Marcus Allen and Thurman did it better than anyone in their era.

Yet Faulk overshadows Thomas (as a pass catching back) because of his SB win with the Rams and then being on TV for over a decade

[Pete]

 

[frostbitmic]

Does he still have his restaurant at Batavia Downs ?

[Gregg]

16 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Not enough people talk about Earl Campbell imo. His career was cut a bit short, but; in his prime he was as good as anybody.

 

Jmo.

 

Those Oilers teams of the Campbell era remind me of these Bills. The Bills can't get past the Chiefs and those Oilers couldn't get past the Steelers. If it wasn't for the Steelers, then there is a good chance those Oilers teams get to and possibly win a Super Bowl. Campbell was a beast. He ran over and through people. He was one of the most physical backs that ever played and probably the main reason his career was short. He took and dished out a lot of punishment in his career.

16 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Not enough people talk about Earl Campbell imo. His career was cut a bit short, but; in his prime he was as good as anybody.

 

Jmo.

 

Those Oilers teams of the Campbell era remind me of these Bills. The Bills can't get past the Chiefs and those Oilers couldn't get past the Steelers. If it wasn't for the Steelers, then there is a good chance those Oilers teams get to and possibly win a Super Bowl. Campbell was a beast. He ran over and through people. He was one of the most physical backs that ever played and probably the main reason his career was short. He took and dished out a lot of punishment in his career.

[Bill from NYC]

19 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Those Oilers teams of the Campbell era remind me of these Bills. The Bills can't get past the Chiefs and those Oilers couldn't get past the Steelers. If it wasn't for the Steelers, then there is a good chance those Oilers teams get to and possibly win a Super Bowl. Campbell was a beast. He ran over and through people. He was one of the most physical backs that ever played and probably the main reason his career was short. He took and dished out a lot of punishment in his career.

 

Those Oilers teams of the Campbell era remind me of these Bills. The Bills can't get past the Chiefs and those Oilers couldn't get past the Steelers. If it wasn't for the Steelers, then there is a good chance those Oilers teams get to and possibly win a Super Bowl. Campbell was a beast. He ran over and through people. He was one of the most physical backs that ever played and probably the main reason his career was short. He took and dished out a lot of punishment in his career.

Campbell was also lightning fast as a young player. He ran somewhere around (perhaps slightly below) a 10 second 100 yard dash as a rookie. He was stronger and faster than Saquon Barkley.

 

Of course this is jmo.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Campbell was also lightning fast as a young player. He ran somewhere around (perhaps slightly below) a 10 second 100 yard dash as a rookie. He was stronger and faster than Saquon Barkley.

 

Of course this is jmo.

 

[JP51]

17 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Thurman’s star doesn’t shine as bright because they didn’t win. Winning matters, a lot. It’s the point of the sport.

 

But I also think that Emmitt’s doesn’t shine as bright as Barry’s anymore. Even though he did win.

 

And part of that is because the most respected/remembered RBs are the ones that were one-man offenses.

 

The most fondly remembered RB from the 2000s-2010s is going to be Adrian Peterson. And in large part, that will be because he was dragging those crummy Vikings teams to the playoffs. 
 

Those Cowboys and Bills teams were stacked. Too much credit to go around.

 

So when you have a great HoF back who never won, also on an offense with a ton of HoF talent, that’s gonna work against the way folks remember you.

I agree beat the Cowboys once and the narrative probably changes...  but in the end TT isnt lacking for love, won an MVP, BHOF,NFL HOF.... he's doin fine... but I would definately put him in the underrated category before the over rated.  But over all he gets his due.

[Simon]

We've seen dozens of guys in the NFL that could do what Emmitt Smith did in that situation.

He's the most overrated RB in the history of the game.

[Bill from NYC]

46 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

The linebacker that he flattened (Isaiah Robertson) was a great player. Campbell was a total superstar.

27 minutes ago, Simon said:

We've seen dozens of guys in the NFL that could do what Emmitt Smith did in that situation.

He's the most overrated RB in the history of the game.

I couldn't agree more. His offensive line was one of, if not the best ever. There were also great receivers that had to be accounted for.

[Alphadawg7]

The GOAT list starts and stops with Barry Sanders.  There has never been a runner as gifted or could do the things he could do.  There is a long list vying for #2 - but Barry is the GOAT IMHO.

 

As far as Thurman goes, once you get into past generations, the few that get spoken about generationally are the ones that remain in the debate for the top spot (Barry, Brown, Campbell, Emmitt, etc).  For the record, I don't think Emmitt was top 5, he benefitted a lot from the dominate OL, but he has the stats so he remains in the convo for many).  Thurman has no claim for the top spot, not even top 5 really, and doesn't even make some peoples top 10 all time.  That is why he doesn't get the due you think he should.  

 

He is a HOFer and all time great, but when you are not a top 5 guy, and don't even have a clear claim to top 10 all time, you are just not going to get talked about in the next generations and eras of the game as much.  

 

 

 

Edited July 18 by Alphadawg7

[Simon]

26 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

His offensive line was one of, if not the best ever.

 

They were certainly the best I've ever seen.

He also has the most carries in NFL history by an absolutely enormous margin.

He was a simple plodder that was repeatedly gifted the most massive running lanes you will ever see.

[Chandler#81]

Thurman’s MVP season

 

[Mat68]

Historically? Nationally?  No.  He was the K Gun.  Besides Bruce setting the All-Time sack record, not winning a Super Bowl stole the shine from Kelly, Thomas and Reed.  In the modern fantasy football world Thomas would have been one of if not the best fantasy back ever.  Led a league breaking offense. MVP, multiple all pros in the golden age of running backs.  Better receiver than both Barry and Emmitt.  Faulk having a similar career and play style but getting a ring hurts, even though he was the pioneer for the position.  

7 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Thurman’s MVP season

 

The Kgun is the foundation of the modern passing attack. Those plays minus the split back stuff is like watching NFL redzone.  

[Lafromboise]

Adrian Peterson imo is the greatest rb I've ever seen.

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The GOAT list starts and stops with Barry Sanders.  There has never been a runner as gifted or could do the things he could do.  There is a long list vying for #2 - but Barry is the GOAT IMHO.

 

As far as Thurman goes, once you get into past generations, the few that get spoken about generationally are the ones that remain in the debate for the top spot (Barry, Brown, Campbell, Emmitt, etc).  For the record, I don't think Emmitt was top 5, he benefitted a lot from the dominate OL, but he has the stats so he remains in the convo for many).  Thurman has no claim for the top spot, not even top 5 really, and doesn't even make some peoples top 10 all time.  That is why he doesn't get the due you think he should.  

 

He is a HOFer and all time great, but when you are not a top 5 guy, and don't even have a clear claim to top 10 all time, you are just not going to get talked about in the next generations and eras of the game as much.  

 

 

 

His career was cut short, but imo Gale Sayers was not less talented than Sanders. He was bigger and perhaps even faster.

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

His career was cut short, but imo Gale Sayers was not less talented than Sanders. He was bigger and perhaps even faster.

 

Agree he is up there and has a case - I think the 5 guys who have the best case for GOAT are:  Sanders, Payton, Sayers, Brown, and Campbell.  For me, its no question Sanders, but that is subjective and my personal opinion of course.  But I have no qualms with anyone making a case for the others.  The one I always push back on (and left off my list) is Emmitt.  He is an all time great, but overrated.  He benefitted from the best OL in the league and one of the best in history.  From a pure talent perspective, he isn't in the same tier as these other guys IMHO.  But no qualms if anyone makes cases for these 5 guys, just for me, Sanders is clear 1 and everyone else each has a strong case for #2.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The GOAT list starts and stops with Barry Sanders.  There has never been a runner as gifted or could do the things he could do.  There is a long list vying for #2 - but Barry is the GOAT IMHO.

 

As far as Thurman goes, once you get into past generations, the few that get spoken about generationally are the ones that remain in the debate for the top spot (Barry, Brown, Campbell, Emmitt, etc).  For the record, I don't think Emmitt was top 5, he benefitted a lot from the dominate OL, but he has the stats so he remains in the convo for many).  Thurman has no claim for the top spot, not even top 5 really, and doesn't even make some peoples top 10 all time.  That is why he doesn't get the due you think he should.  

 

He is a HOFer and all time great, but when you are not a top 5 guy, and don't even have a clear claim to top 10 all time, you are just not going to get talked about in the next generations and eras of the game as much.  

 

 

 

I can agree with Sanders as best ever. I prefer more dual threat RBs like Thomas and Tomlinson but on pure rushing ability Sanders may indeed be the greatest. In terms of pure rushing I would say it is Sanders, Brown, OJ as my top 3. 

 

I would argue Simpson's 2003 yard 1973 season is the greatest rushing season and will never be close to being duplicated. His 143 yards/game is 10 yards higher than Jim Brown in second place and 15 yards per game better than Sanders best season. 

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The GOAT list starts and stops with Barry Sanders.  There has never been a runner as gifted or could do the things he could do.  There is a long list vying for #2 - but Barry is the GOAT IMHO.

 

As far as Thurman goes, once you get into past generations, the few that get spoken about generationally are the ones that remain in the debate for the top spot (Barry, Brown, Campbell, Emmitt, etc).  For the record, I don't think Emmitt was top 5, he benefitted a lot from the dominate OL, but he has the stats so he remains in the convo for many).  Thurman has no claim for the top spot, not even top 5 really, and doesn't even make some peoples top 10 all time.  That is why he doesn't get the due you think he should.  

 

He is a HOFer and all time great, but when you are not a top 5 guy, and don't even have a clear claim to top 10 all time, you are just not going to get talked about in the next generations and eras of the game as much.  

 

I sort of disagree as Thurman was great, Barry was great as were many others.  But the guy I saw do more with less was Walter Payton as he had no line, no QB, no receivers and could do so much with so little talent around him until his last years. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

I sort of disagree as Thurman was great, Barry was great as were many others.  But the guy I saw do more with less was Walter Payton as he had no line, no QB, no receivers and could do so much with so little talent around him until his last years. 

 

You wont get an argument for me against Payton as before he retired he was my favorite player as a kid.  But - in terms of OL, Sanders maybe had the worst OL I have ever seen someone be elite still running behind.  I think what makes Sanders the GOAT in my eyes is what he accomplished on mediocre teams, with OL's that were not very good and mediocre QB's around him.  Payton won a SB playing on a team that is often listed as one of the best teams ever as well.  

 

But again, Payton has a legit case, so won't argue against him.  I am still in the Sanders camp firmly, but fully recognize that is subjective and that Payton is a worthy challenger to the top spot.