Maxwell Hairston named in civil lawsuit for sexual assault

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, pennstate10 said:

Ahh, but the pesky fact is that punitive damages DO go to compensate the plaintiff. Using monetary metrics that are impossible to verify. How do you put a number on pain and suffering?

 

If punitive damages are meant to punish the wrongdoer, and not enrich the plaintiff, then why don’t these punitive damages go to a related charity. In the case they should go to a rape crisis center, or similar nonprofit

Classic Pennstate guy imo

[Augie]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

OK Augie 

What would you do? I’ve stated what I would do. It’s a bit of a moral dilemma. 

 

I’m not her and I wasn’t there, so I can’t answer.

 

I see no moral dilemma here at all. Did you want the Goldman family to donate proceeds from the OJ civil suit to charity? Why, or why not? IF she were to win damages, I’d have zero problems with her spending that money to improve her life. SHE was the party found to be harmed in a court of law. 

 

I don’t like going this far down a hypothetical road, so have a nice Sunday. 

 

 

.

Edited Sunday at 07:03 PM by Augie

[BananaB]

From her statement and the fact there is no criminal charges I’d say it was mutual consent to a point and then it wasn’t. Unless she gives full details we don’t know that point and it’s hard to judge. I imagine if she tried to get justice as much as she has said the whole story would have to be given. Not saying it’s ok, not saying Max is innocent, just we don’t know the whole story by what she has posted.  
 

 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m not her, so I can’t answer.

 

I see no moral dilemma here at all. Did you want the Goldman family to donate proceeds from the OJ civil suit to charity? Why, or why not? IF she were to win damages, I’d have zero problems with her spending that money to improve her life. SHE was the party found to be harmed in a court of law. 

 

I don’t like going this far down a hypothetical road, so have a nice Sunday. 

No worries. Have a great day! 

[Billl]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

May I suggest you stop digging, and step away from the shovel. 

 

It wasn’t just referenced in one obscure moment with the press, it has been a topic that has been discussed since the draft. But it’s just fine if you are not aware of it, there are no pop quizzes here. The problem is with sharing your accusatory views without bothering to become informed. Read/listen, then post tends to work better than posting negative stuff and then pleading ignorance, especially after being made aware that you are ill-informed. 

 

Of course the civil suit will wait until after he signs his contract. If you were her attorney, or even just a concerned uncle with a functioning brain, that’s what you would advise, right? 

I’ll never understand why so many people think playing dumb is an impressive strategy in a conversation.  That and the absurd notion that the victim acting rationally in the aftermath of a sexual assault is somehow evidence that said assault therefore must not have occurred seems to be the go-to strategy of those looking to discount the victim’s story.

 

”I mean, if she was really assaulted, why did she wait until her attacker had something to lose before filing a civil suit?”  Like really?  They genuinely don’t know the answer to their own question?  I find that very hard to believe.  Look I completely understand that fans want to speak his innocence into existence, but this is a really bad way of going about it.  I have no idea whether Hairston is guilty or not, but rational behavior by the alleged victim in terms of when a civil suit was filed is in no way evidence that she’s lying.

Edited Sunday at 06:59 PM by Billl

[Victory Formation]

I have a really hard time thinking that our FO would draft Hairston if they didn’t do their research.

Edited Sunday at 10:13 PM by Victory Formation

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks Augie

The reason I bring up the funds is because a civil trial is very different from a criminal one. In a criminal case, the convicted goes to prison. The victim gets essentially nothing other than the knowledge that the convicted is locked up and therefore can’t hurt anyone else for the term of their incarceration. However, in a civil case the remedy goes directly to the victim, not to society at large. It’s why, as I’m sure everyone can tell, I’m uncomfortable with these cases. I guess it’s why I’d be less uncomfortable if the plaintiff said they were going to donate the proceeds. 

 

Why should "society at large" benefit from a victim of assault's suffering?  That doesn't make any sense at all.  How many civil payouts ever have been given away by the victim or their families? It's righteous compensation. "Society at large", which includes all the jock sniffers, hero worshippers, boosters, dirty universities and look the other way college town cops, clearly deserve nothing.  

 

The purpose of suing for money is to punish and inflict financial pain on the perp, obviously. If the victim can't take the perp's freedom, they will seek to take the second most precious thing--his livelihood.....which, if allegations are true, he was allowed to earn because he was never charged by a pliant local police force (anyone remember the James Winston "investigation" at Florida State, or the serial sexual assault of the Ohio State wrestlers?) and University. 

 

The monetary award and the shame it piles on the perp (who would lose his status as well) is the best a victim could hope for.  

Edited Sunday at 10:17 PM by Mr. WEO

[Sierra Foothills]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And to add to your question about if it was my daughter, I’ve actually thought about that exact question. The answer I’ve come to is that I don’t think I could EVER sit in the new car she bought with the proceeds….but that’s just me. 

 

Deek, you're trying make a one-size-fits-all, definitive judgement. That's not the world we live in.

 

Firstly, every situation is different... what if as a result of the incident, your daughter suffered PTSD, went sliding down that slope and struggled with trauma, shame, and depression every morning she woke up? What if she couldn't function and struggled to remain employed because she was driving an undependable junker because of her sporadic employment caused by her mental condition?

 

How does your new car sound now?

 

And of course that question disregards the myriad of related factors that make your question unanswerable including but not restricted to what kind of new car we're talking about... would you agree that your daughter buying a Nissan Versa would be different than her buying a Cadillac Celestique?

 

While you're pondering your response, remember that the alleged victim in the Hairston case had to transfer from the University of Kentucky... Hairston remained at UK. BTW do you think she's enjoying the reprisal of this story?

 

Secondly on a broad scale, in cases where an individual did in fact cause damage and harm to another, then I think it's appropriate for that person to pay a price to the victim... whatever that price is. From the standpoint of justice we would all hope that the punishment fits the crime but we would never know that, even in cases where we're directly involved.

 

Only an omnipresent, omniscient, all-knowing, all-wise entity could answer the question(s) you're asking.

 

I'm moving on...

 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:03 PM by Sierra Foothills

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Aloha people

I’ve been trying to move this discussion away from the particulars of a he said, she said scenario because as I’ve posted a few times now, none of us knows what actually happened in this incident. The process will obviously play itself out. 
 

My conceptual question is whether people think that filing a civil suit is the appropriate remedy (‘justice’ as Sierra called it) for what allegedly happened here. I’m actually on the fence. On the one hand, a monetary settlement doesn’t seem particularly appropriate when the victim hasn’t been monetarily damaged. On the other hand I can understand the frustration of the alleged victim if all other avenues of redress have been (at least in her mind) exhausted. 
 

It’s on that point that the timing comes into play. Is it appropriate, as a victim, to simply wait in the weeds and pounce when the defendant comes into money? How does their financial status bring you justice? Are you promising to donate all proceeds to a women’s shelter? If the true intent is to get back at the defendant couldn’t you have done more actual damage to the defendant by bringing this into court BEFORE he even got to this point? 
 

I could go on, but I’m curious what people think. Believe me…I realize it’s hard to have such philosophical discussions on a message board. 

 

Bear with me. For the sake of discussion and as a thought exercise I'm going to lay out some stuff, but also make some assumptions. Doesnt matter if the assumptions are wrong as the point is to ultimately provide some perspective and answers...

 

Some things we do know (and some comments in parenthesis):

Max was 17 years old at the time of this event. (Most 17 yr olds are not great at impulse control to begin with)

Fresh on campus as a highly sought after recruit for a D1 football team. (That hyped up confidence isnt helping the impulse control)

There was drinking/drugs involved. (That never helps anyone's decision making or impulse control)

He is certainly a personality. (But maybe not as charming as he thinks he is)

 

Now lets just assume (here's the assumptions) everything this young lady alleges is true. Whether you are waiting for more facts to come out or not, for the sake of this post, lets say it all happened. Because frankly, as someone who has been a young, dumb college kid around a lot of athletes and partiers, I can absolutely see something like this happening. Heck, I've probably been 1-2 steps away from it myself...

 

He didnt take no for an answer and got himself into her room. Not violently. He didnt kick the door down. Or threaten her with a gun or knife. But he did force himself into a place he wasnt invited.

Some sexual stuff happened even though she told him "no". Again, nothing too violent. He didnt beat her. This is certainly no OJ, or Lawrence Taylor, or even Cornelius Bennett. But it was without her consent and he did it to her body.

 

She filed reports immediately after. Too much "he said/she said" and not enough real evidence, so no charges. She then packs up her life and changes schools.

 

This young lady had her agency taken from her, felt she had to upend her life and change schools (which is no small matter for regular students not getting millions in the transfer portal). Who knows how this threw her own life plans off track. Maybe the new school doesnt have as good of a program for her major. Maybe it costs her more. There are a million different ways this could affect someone in real life, both immediately and for years down the line.

 

Now here we are a few years later. Max just signed a guaranteed $15M+ contract and, if he even has a half-decent first few years, will get another NFL contract when it is up.

 

So we go to civil trial. She is looking for some sort of "justice" or at least some validation and fairness since she had a piece of her taken away that she can't get back, plus whatever BS she had to go through over such a stupid event.

 

Give her $2M-5M. It's a small piece of what he is set to make in his life, and it's enough to set her up for the rest of her life and certainly amend any issues or missteps that this caused. Stash it away as retirement, can draw 2-3%/year and have an extra $75k/yr while not touching the principle.

 

Does it give her her body back? No.

Does it help put her life back on the track she likely envisioned the day her parents dropped her off at college and she had her whole future ahead of her? Yeah, I'd say most likely.

So there is a the point of what she is doing and why.

 

And here's my bottom line as a fan and even someone who has been an advocate for women in this thread... Even if he does settle or loses the civil trial, I'm not holding it against him. IMO, the offense, while not something I would ever want my son or any man I know to do, isnt so egregious that it makes us into moral hypocrites. Certainly not like many of the other offenses perpetrated by some of our favorite players.

 

He was young, dumb, and made a mistake. She is a victim and deserves some satisfaction. It wouldnt take too much to make that right, and not have to ruin his future either.

 

I hope justice truly prevails and these young adults go on to both live happy lives.

 

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bear with me. For the sake of discussion and as a thought exercise I'm going to lay out some stuff, but also make some assumptions. Doesnt matter if the assumptions are wrong as the point is to ultimately provide some perspective and answers...

 

Some things we do know (and some comments in parenthesis):

Max was 17 years old at the time of this event. (Most 17 yr olds are not great at impulse control to begin with)

Fresh on campus as a highly sought after recruit for a D1 football team. (That hyped up confidence isnt helping the impulse control)

There was drinking/drugs involved. (That never helps anyone's decision making or impulse control)

He is certainly a personality. (But maybe not as charming as he thinks he is)

 

Now lets just assume (here's the assumptions) everything this young lady alleges is true. Whether you are waiting for more facts to come out or not, for the sake of this post, lets say it all happened. Because frankly, as someone who has been a young, dumb college kid around a lot of athletes and partiers, I can absolutely see something like this happening. Heck, I've probably been 1-2 steps away from it myself...

 

He didnt take no for an answer and got himself into her room. Not violently. He didnt kick the door down. Or threaten her with a gun or knife. But he did force himself into a place he wasnt invited.

Some sexual stuff happened even though she told him "no". Again, nothing too violent. He didnt beat her. This is certainly no OJ, or Lawrence Taylor, or even Cornelius Bennett. But it was without her consent and he did it to her body.

 

She filed reports immediately after. Too much "he said/she said" and not enough real evidence, so no charges. She then packs up her life and changes schools.

 

This young lady had her agency taken from her, felt she had to upend her life and change schools (which is no small matter for regular students not getting millions in the transfer portal). Who knows how this threw her own life plans off track. Maybe the new school doesnt have as good of a program for her major. Maybe it costs her more. There are a million different ways this could affect someone in real life, both immediately and for years down the line.

 

Now here we are a few years later. Max just signed a guaranteed $15M+ contract and, if he even has a half-decent first few years, will get another NFL contract when it is up.

 

So we go to civil trial. She is looking for some sort of "justice" or at least some validation and fairness since she had a piece of her taken away that she can't get back, plus whatever BS she had to go through over such a stupid event.

 

Give her $2M-5M. It's a small piece of what he is set to make in his life, and it's enough to set her up for the rest of her life and certainly amend any issues or missteps that this caused. Stash it away as retirement, can draw 2-3%/year and have an extra $75k/yr while not touching the principle.

 

Does it give her her body back? No.

Does it help put her life back on the track she likely envisioned the day her parents dropped her off at college and she had her whole future ahead of her? Yeah, I'd say most likely.

So there is a the point of what she is doing and why.

 

And here's my bottom line as a fan and even someone who has been an advocate for women in this thread... Even if he does settle or loses the civil trial, I'm not holding it against him. IMO, the offense, while not something I would ever want my son or any man I know to do, isnt so egregious that it makes us into moral hypocrites. Certainly not like many of the other offenses perpetrated by some of our favorite players.

 

He was young, dumb, and made a mistake. She is a victim and deserves some satisfaction. It wouldnt take too much to make that right, and not have to ruin his future either.

 

I hope justice truly prevails and these young adults go on to both live happy lives.

 

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

Yes, it absolutely matters if your assumptions are right or wrong as you state a case. You appear to make a compelling argument about her life going off track, but let’s not pretend we have ever even met either of them.  I’ll try to remember that we have no idea what happened, why it happened or how it happened. 

 

I could lay out a potentially compelling argument (based upon assumptions) to refute your “assumptions”, but that wouldn’t be fair to anyone, especially the people in the middle of this. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Yes, it absolutely matters if your assumptions are right or wrong as you state a case. You appear to make a compelling argument about her life going off track, but let’s not pretend we have ever even met either of them.  I’ll try to remember that we have no idea what happened, why it happened or how it happened. 

 

I could lay out a potentially compelling argument (based upon assumptions) to refute your “assumptions”, but that wouldn’t be fair to anyone, especially the people in the middle of this. 

 

Of course it matters. My point (well one of many points) was, even in a "worst case scenario", both parties can come out of it, and fans can move on with their lives.

Edited Sunday at 09:38 PM by DrDawkinstein

[Einstein]

Goodness gracious. Some fans would defend Hitler if he was in a Bills jersey.

[Mike in Horseheads]

21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Of course it matters. My point (well one of many points) was, even in a "worst case scenario", both parties can come out of it, and fans can move on with their lives.

Funny thing, this is the only place still talking about this. 

[WotAGuy]

34 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Goodness gracious. Some fans would defend Hitler if he was in a Bills jersey.

Is he faster than Coleman??

[BananaB]

10 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Is he faster than Coleman??

Everyone is faster then Coleman 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bear with me. For the sake of discussion and as a thought exercise I'm going to lay out some stuff, but also make some assumptions. Doesnt matter if the assumptions are wrong as the point is to ultimately provide some perspective and answers...

 

Some things we do know (and some comments in parenthesis):

Max was 17 years old at the time of this event. (Most 17 yr olds are not great at impulse control to begin with)

Fresh on campus as a highly sought after recruit for a D1 football team. (That hyped up confidence isnt helping the impulse control)

There was drinking/drugs involved. (That never helps anyone's decision making or impulse control)

He is certainly a personality. (But maybe not as charming as he thinks he is)

 

Now lets just assume (here's the assumptions) everything this young lady alleges is true. Whether you are waiting for more facts to come out or not, for the sake of this post, lets say it all happened. Because frankly, as someone who has been a young, dumb college kid around a lot of athletes and partiers, I can absolutely see something like this happening. Heck, I've probably been 1-2 steps away from it myself...

 

He didnt take no for an answer and got himself into her room. Not violently. He didnt kick the door down. Or threaten her with a gun or knife. But he did force himself into a place he wasnt invited.

Some sexual stuff happened even though she told him "no". Again, nothing too violent. He didnt beat her. This is certainly no OJ, or Lawrence Taylor, or even Cornelius Bennett. But it was without her consent and he did it to her body.

 

She filed reports immediately after. Too much "he said/she said" and not enough real evidence, so no charges. She then packs up her life and changes schools.

 

This young lady had her agency taken from her, felt she had to upend her life and change schools (which is no small matter for regular students not getting millions in the transfer portal). Who knows how this threw her own life plans off track. Maybe the new school doesnt have as good of a program for her major. Maybe it costs her more. There are a million different ways this could affect someone in real life, both immediately and for years down the line.

 

Now here we are a few years later. Max just signed a guaranteed $15M+ contract and, if he even has a half-decent first few years, will get another NFL contract when it is up.

 

So we go to civil trial. She is looking for some sort of "justice" or at least some validation and fairness since she had a piece of her taken away that she can't get back, plus whatever BS she had to go through over such a stupid event.

 

Give her $2M-5M. It's a small piece of what he is set to make in his life, and it's enough to set her up for the rest of her life and certainly amend any issues or missteps that this caused. Stash it away as retirement, can draw 2-3%/year and have an extra $75k/yr while not touching the principle.

 

Does it give her her body back? No.

Does it help put her life back on the track she likely envisioned the day her parents dropped her off at college and she had her whole future ahead of her? Yeah, I'd say most likely.

So there is a the point of what she is doing and why.

 

And here's my bottom line as a fan and even someone who has been an advocate for women in this thread... Even if he does settle or loses the civil trial, I'm not holding it against him. IMO, the offense, while not something I would ever want my son or any man I know to do, isnt so egregious that it makes us into moral hypocrites. Certainly not like many of the other offenses perpetrated by some of our favorite players.

 

He was young, dumb, and made a mistake. She is a victim and deserves some satisfaction. It wouldnt take too much to make that right, and not have to ruin his future either.

 

I hope justice truly prevails and these young adults go on to both live happy lives.

 

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

A clear, reasonable, and principled response. Very much appreciated! (Way better than the ‘cut his balls off’ response.)

[WotAGuy]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

A clear, reasonable, and principled response. Very much appreciated! (Way better than the ‘cut his balls off’ response.)

I was on board with everything,, until I saw she wasn’t giving the award to a woman’s shelter.  What a beeotch. 

[Augie]

51 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Of course it matters. My point (well one of many points) was, even in a "worst case scenario", both parties can come out of it, and fans can move on with their lives.

 

Your point leaned heavily toward “just pay the girl” and move on, without a second glance. I just don’t know enough to accept that, even if you are trying to couch your position with “assumptions”. We don’t know either of these people. 

 

My Father-in-law was a dentist forever in a small town. Not long before his retirement he had the first malpractice claim of his life filed against him. It was from a poor old lady who he had been caring for for decades. He did nothing wrong, and everybody knew it. The insurance company insisted that they had never had a claim from him before, so they were just going to settle. Because it was the easiest thing to do. He never got over that.

 

I think both parties present at the time believe their version of events. I do not think either of them are “lying”, it’s just different perspectives. It’s very personal to them, and I’ll step back and hope they can both find a comfortable place to move on from. 

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bear with me. For the sake of discussion and as a thought exercise I'm going to lay out some stuff, but also make some assumptions. Doesnt matter if the assumptions are wrong as the point is to ultimately provide some perspective and answers...

 

Some things we do know (and some comments in parenthesis):

Max was 17 years old at the time of this event. (Most 17 yr olds are not great at impulse control to begin with)

Fresh on campus as a highly sought after recruit for a D1 football team. (That hyped up confidence isnt helping the impulse control)

There was drinking/drugs involved. (That never helps anyone's decision making or impulse control)

He is certainly a personality. (But maybe not as charming as he thinks he is)

 

Now lets just assume (here's the assumptions) everything this young lady alleges is true. Whether you are waiting for more facts to come out or not, for the sake of this post, lets say it all happened. Because frankly, as someone who has been a young, dumb college kid around a lot of athletes and partiers, I can absolutely see something like this happening. Heck, I've probably been 1-2 steps away from it myself...

 

He didnt take no for an answer and got himself into her room. Not violently. He didnt kick the door down. Or threaten her with a gun or knife. But he did force himself into a place he wasnt invited.

Some sexual stuff happened even though she told him "no". Again, nothing too violent. He didnt beat her. This is certainly no OJ, or Lawrence Taylor, or even Cornelius Bennett. But it was without her consent and he did it to her body.

 

 

I know you are just putting “assumptions” out there to prove a point, but I gotta tell you, the way you worded the male role in all this creeps me out (as a father of three girls). Way too much rationalization and downplaying language for me to stomach. No offense to you personally. 
 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:50 PM by WotAGuy

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Your point leaned heavily toward “just pay the girl” and move on, without a second glance. I just don’t know enough to accept that, even if you are trying to couch your position with “assumptions”. We don’t know either of these people.

 

My man. Did you miss the entire first paragraph where I literally said "bear with me" and "thought exercise" etc etc????

 

In order to have the philosophical discussion @SoCal Deek was looking for, you MUST make an assumption of judgement one way or the other. Otherwise, sure, just sit back with the rest of you folks "waiting for more information". But a heads up to that as well, we'll never know more information. This entire thing is he said/she said. 

1 minute ago, WotAGuy said:

I know you are just putting “assumptions” out there to prove a point, but I gotta tell you, the way you worded the male role in all this creeps me out (as a father of three girls). Way too much rationalization and downplaying language for me to stomach. No offense to you personally. 
 

 

 

That's fair, I dont disagree, and I didnt love doing it either.