Keon Coleman success by route - Not pretty

[starrymessenger]

10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

All this speculation about Coleman isn't worth spit.  He was a 21-year-old rookie who got injured.

 

He will be part of Brady's game-planning, and we will all soon see whether he can rise to the expectations of the Bills offense.

I disagree. The debate is informative (at least for yours truly). On the other hand your conclusion is 100% correct imo. Personally I'm optimistic about his chances. 

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They are. He just hasn't found that elite guy outside Josh...... yet! As I said earlier in the thread though Benford and Brown if they take another step can get into that territory. Cook maybe needs to take two more stepsm but isn't a mile away. 

If Cook makes the same jump as last year, he will enter elite territory.  I say he does so.  

[appoo]

And just to be clear about AJ, I love him as a WR and he’d be by far our best WR and it’s not even close. Same is true of Davonte Smith.  That the Eagles have both is a function of luck, circumstance and opportunity.  
 

But not everyone can be elite. In a world where Chase, Jefferson, Sun God, CeeDee Lamb, and scary Terry exist, I can’t call AJ Brown elite.  That’s not taking anything away from him either. But there’s some REALLY REALLY good talent out there right now. 
 

Like Drake London never gets any publicity but he’s been incredible. He had more catches, yards and touchdowns than AJ playing on a worse team with worse QB play. We’re not gonna call him elite though. 
 

Feel like Eagle players are getting a bit inflated because they won a Super Bowl, when the reality is they won that Super Bowl by having really good players at every position, rather than relying on a a few different stars. They won with depth, they won with versatility, and they won with a pass rush that was more about waves than any one player taking over every week. They didn’t have a single guy with double digit sacks yet they had 5 players with double digit pressures (Bills had 4).

Thats also how I want buffalo to look, and I see no reason they can’t be that

 

1 minute ago, Ga boy said:

If Cook makes the same jump as last year, he will enter elite territory.  I say he does so.  

 He’s simply not talented enough IMO. There’s a clear divide between the level of Barkely, Henry and pre injury Chubb that Cook doesn’t have. 
 

And even beyond them Bijan Robinson and Jamhyr Gibbs in Detroit are a tier above Cook

[Ga boy]

5 minutes ago, appoo said:

And just to be clear about AJ, I love him as a WR and he’d be by far our best WR and it’s not even close. Same is true of Davonte Smith.  That the Eagles have both is a function of luck, circumstance and opportunity.  
 

But not everyone can be elite. In a world where Chase, Jefferson, Sun God, CeeDee Lamb, and scary Terry exist, I can’t call AJ Brown elite.  That’s not taking anything away from him either. But there’s some REALLY REALLY good talent out there right now. 
 

Like Drake London never gets any publicity but he’s been incredible. He had more catches, yards and touchdowns than AJ playing on a worse team with worse QB play. We’re not gonna call him elite though. 
 

Feel like Eagle players are getting a bit inflated because they won a Super Bowl, when the reality is they won that Super Bowl by having really good players at every position, rather than relying on a a few different stars. They won with depth, they won with versatility, and they won with a pass rush that was more about waves than any one player taking over every week. They didn’t have a single guy with double digit sacks yet they had 5 players with double digit pressures (Bills had 4).

Thats also how I want buffalo to look, and I see no reason they can’t be that

 

 He’s simply not talented enough IMO. There’s a clear divide between the level of Barkely, Henry and pre injury Chubb that Cook doesn’t have. 
 

And even beyond them Bijan Robinson and Jamhyr Gibbs in Detroit are a tier above Cook

Now that you put it like that, that is rarified air up there with those guys,  but, but Cook has speed, wiggle and twitch that means something big can happen each time he touches the ball.  Let’s revisit later.

[Doc]

11 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

If we had one ring let alone enough to fill up nearly two hands we wouldn’t be talking about this. So I guess I don’t get the comparison. 

 

You said the Bills were only winning so many games because of the division they are in.  I said Brady feasted on an IMHO even weaker AFC East and still struggled to beat the Dols most years.  Meaning a weak division doesn't even guarantee you 6 wins out of the 16 (and now 17) games.

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, appoo said:

And just to be clear about AJ, I love him as a WR and he’d be by far our best WR and it’s not even close. Same is true of Davonte Smith.  That the Eagles have both is a function of luck, circumstance and opportunity.  
 

But not everyone can be elite. In a world where Chase, Jefferson, Sun God, CeeDee Lamb, and scary Terry exist, I can’t call AJ Brown elite.  That’s not taking anything away from him either. But there’s some REALLY REALLY good talent out there right now. 
 

Like Drake London never gets any publicity but he’s been incredible. He had more catches, yards and touchdowns than AJ playing on a worse team with worse QB play. We’re not gonna call him elite though. 
 

Feel like Eagle players are getting a bit inflated because they won a Super Bowl, when the reality is they won that Super Bowl by having really good players at every position, rather than relying on a a few different stars. They won with depth, they won with versatility, and they won with a pass rush that was more about waves than any one player taking over every week. They didn’t have a single guy with double digit sacks yet they had 5 players with double digit pressures (Bills had 4).

Thats also how I want buffalo to look, and I see no reason they can’t be that

 

 He’s simply not talented enough IMO. There’s a clear divide between the level of Barkely, Henry and pre injury Chubb that Cook doesn’t have. 
 

And even beyond them Bijan Robinson and Jamhyr Gibbs in Detroit are a tier above Cook

If you look at AJ Brown's stats with the Eagles, in what world is Drake London more productive than him? He put up nearly 1500 yards in both 2022 and 2023, and last year was skewed by the fact that the Eagles had a 2,000 yard running back and had the fewest pass attempts in the league.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowAJ00.htm

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

He's right up there with Howie Roseman and Brett Veach. 

 

I don't disagree with much of your post. I do disagree with this. He has to find more elite guys to support Josh. 

30 minutes ago, appoo said:

And just to be clear about AJ, I love him as a WR and he’d be by far our best WR and it’s not even close. Same is true of Davonte Smith.  That the Eagles have both is a function of luck, circumstance and opportunity.  
 

But not everyone can be elite. In a world where Chase, Jefferson, Sun God, CeeDee Lamb, and scary Terry exist, I can’t call AJ Brown elite.  That’s not taking anything away from him either. But there’s some REALLY REALLY good talent out there right now. 
 

Like Drake London never gets any publicity but he’s been incredible. He had more catches, yards and touchdowns than AJ playing on a worse team with worse QB play. We’re not gonna call him elite though. 
 

Feel like Eagle players are getting a bit inflated because they won a Super Bowl, when the reality is they won that Super Bowl by having really good players at every position, rather than relying on a a few different stars. They won with depth, they won with versatility, and they won with a pass rush that was more about waves than any one player taking over every week. They didn’t have a single guy with double digit sacks yet they had 5 players with double digit pressures (Bills had 4).

Thats also how I want buffalo to look, and I see no reason they can’t be that

 

 He’s simply not talented enough IMO. There’s a clear divide between the level of Barkely, Henry and pre injury Chubb that Cook doesn’t have. 
 

And even beyond them Bijan Robinson and Jamhyr Gibbs in Detroit are a tier above Cook

 

AJ Brown is LEVELS above Drake London. That is an insanely bad comparison. 

 

Brown is behind only Chase and Jefferson. And there is a GAP to #4. You are entitled to your opinion, obviously but I think you are miles off.

Edited 8 hours ago by GunnerBill

[appoo]

18 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

Now that you put it like that, that is rarified air up there with those guys,  but, but Cook has speed, wiggle and twitch that means something big can happen each time he touches the ball.  Let’s revisit later.

Cook is a very good back and a multi-dimensional threat. 
 

We can absolutely lean on him as the bills win a Super Bowl and if you can do that, then IMO you’re worth being paid like a top 5-10 back

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

If you look at AJ Brown's stats with the Eagles, in what world is Drake London more productive than him? He put up nearly 1500 yards in both 2022 and 2023, and last year was skewed by the fact that the Eagles had a 2,000 yard running back and had the fewest pass attempts in the league.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowAJ00.htm

Those were the only seasons he got past 1000 yards.

 

And again, I’m not saying Drake is better! Saying someone “isn’t elite” isn’t the same thing as saying “this is not a great player”.

 

AJ Brown can lead my WR corps anytime. He’d literally be the 2nd best Bills WR since like Eric Moulds, right there with Stefon Diggs.

 

I probably shouldn’t get involved in “elite” debates

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, appoo said:

Those were the only seasons he got past 1000 yards

 

If you're going to make an outlier claim, at the very least you need to get your basic facts straight.

[dave mcbride]

18 minutes ago, appoo said:

Cook is a very good back and a multi-dimensional threat. 
 

We can absolutely lean on him as the bills win a Super Bowl and if you can do that, then IMO you’re worth being paid like a top 5-10 back

Those were the only seasons he got past 1000 yards.

 

And again, I’m not saying Drake is better! Saying someone “isn’t elite” isn’t the same thing as saying “this is not a great player”.

 

AJ Brown can lead my WR corps anytime. He’d literally be the 2nd best Bills WR since like Eric Moulds, right there with Stefon Diggs.

 

I probably shouldn’t get involved in “elite” debates

He actually has gotten over 1,000 yards five times in six seasons, and the one time he didn't he missed 3+ games due to injury (he still finished with nearly 900 yards). But I take your point about "elite" debates.

Edited 8 hours ago by dave mcbride

[finn]

54 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I disagree. The debate is informative (at least for yours truly). On the other hand your conclusion is 100% correct imo. Personally I'm optimistic about his chances. 

I'm optimistic, too; no reason not to be. The only reason for concern in my mind is how he played when he was presumably recovered from the injury, especially in the playoffs. He looked gun-shy to me, afraid to take a hit. Understandable, but if it's the case, I hope he's gotten over it, since Beane drafted him for his physicality. Allen mentioned he (Coleman) had put on some muscle in the offseason. That might help both physically and psychologically. 

[ColoradoBills]

58 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I disagree. The debate is informative (at least for yours truly). On the other hand your conclusion is 100% correct imo. Personally I'm optimistic about his chances. 

 

Thanks for the reply.  I guess I believe that there is too little actual time Coleman has spent as a Buffalo Bill in Brady's offense to

arrive at anything conclusive.  I too am optimistic (I tend to be that way) but I will have to wait until I see more from him.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

If you're going to make an outlier claim, at the very least you need to get your basic facts straight.

 

Yea he has only failed to have 1,000 yards once and that year he missed 3 games.

[Ya Digg?]

52 minutes ago, appoo said:

And just to be clear about AJ, I love him as a WR and he’d be by far our best WR and it’s not even close. Same is true of Davonte Smith.  That the Eagles have both is a function of luck, circumstance and opportunity.  
 

But not everyone can be elite. In a world where Chase, Jefferson, Sun God, CeeDee Lamb, and scary Terry exist, I can’t call AJ Brown elite.  That’s not taking anything away from him either. But there’s some REALLY REALLY good talent out there right now. 
 

Like Drake London never gets any publicity but he’s been incredible. He had more catches, yards and touchdowns than AJ playing on a worse team with worse QB play. We’re not gonna call him elite though. 
 

Feel like Eagle players are getting a bit inflated because they won a Super Bowl, when the reality is they won that Super Bowl by having really good players at every position, rather than relying on a a few different stars. They won with depth, they won with versatility, and they won with a pass rush that was more about waves than any one player taking over every week. They didn’t have a single guy with double digit sacks yet they had 5 players with double digit pressures (Bills had 4).

Thats also how I want buffalo to look, and I see no reason they can’t be that

 

 He’s simply not talented enough IMO. There’s a clear divide between the level of Barkely, Henry and pre injury Chubb that Cook doesn’t have. 
 

And even beyond them Bijan Robinson and Jamhyr Gibbs in Detroit are a tier above Cook

Before I make my full comment, 2 things: when you say scary Terry, are you talking Mclaurin? And if so, are you putting him in the same category as those other guys?!?!

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I just looked up the Sooners schedule.  It is really difficult.  Good luck.  I am a big college football fan.  And I have always rooted for the Sooners to a degree going back to the Barry Switzer years with JC Watts at QB when I was young. (loved them running all that Option wishbone football. Really interesting how the game has changed over the years.) And then I always liked Bob Stoops too.  But Michigan is my school and my team.  It should be an exciting game between the two blue blood teams that don't usually play each other.  

I hope it ends up being a good game.  We did well in the transfer portal and recruiting.  Now coaching has to do its job.

 

SI and a couple others say OU has the hardest schedule.  Joel Klatt Venables is a gonner if there isn't a massive turn around. 

[Ga boy]

50 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

If Cook makes the same jump as last year, he will enter elite territory.  I say he does so.  

If Cook and Coleman make a jump that’s our ticket to the big dance.  A jump by Kincade would seal the deal.  I know thats a lot of ifs, but IF these don’t happen, we’ll be watching KC or the black birds.

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea he has only failed to have 1,000 yards once and that year he missed 3 games.

 

He missed 4 games this past season and still ended up over 1,000 yards in a run heavy offense... I have no clue how anyone could argue he isn't elite. For my money he's on track to end up in the Hall of Fame if he keeps up his pace.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Before I make my full comment, 2 things: when you say scary Terry, are you talking Mclaurin? And if so, are you putting him in the same category as those other guys?!?!

 

Yep. Again.... LEVELS below AJ Brown.

[appoo]

20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He actually has gotten over 1,000 yards five times in six seasons, and the one time he didn't he missed 3+ games due to injury (he still finished with nearly 900 yards). But I take your point about "elite" debates.

I must have pulled up the wrong page or something my bad 

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He missed 4 games this past season and still ended up over 1,000 yards in a run heavy offense... I have no clue how anyone could argue he isn't elite. For my money he's on track to end up in the Hall of Fame if he keeps up his pace.

 

16 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Before I make my full comment, 2 things: when you say scary Terry, are you talking Mclaurin? And if so, are you putting him in the same category as those other guys?!?!

I love McLaurin. This is a man who’s basically averaged 1K a year and doing this while playing in the joke of a franchise that was Washington prior to Jayden Daniels. 
 

Perhaps the most underrated WR around IMO. 

[LEBills]

1 hour ago, appoo said:

 

 

One of these are DK Metcalf. The other is AJ Brown. 

It’s wildly subjective. Also Keon was a very different player pre injury (one of the 3 best rookie WRs and actually a pretty good ranking WR in general) when going by EPA (by far the most accepted and respected advanced stat around) vs post injury. 
 

He acknowledged that, Beane acknowledged that, McDermott did…he’s 21. He’ll be good 

We will see, I think he will continue to have good moments but I think he will be a streaky player. Contributor but not a star, which is fine.