Keon Coleman success by route - Not pretty

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't disagree with much of your post. I do disagree with this. He has to find more elite guys to support Josh. 

If you agree with much of my post, you agree with the notion that Beane has drafted roughly 4 of the top 85 (Elite + Near-Elite) players in the National Football League since 2018.

 

How many of the top 85 have Veach and Roseman drafted in that same timeframe?

 

Jordan Mailata (Elite), Jalen Hurts (Near-Elite) and Jalen Carter (Near-Elite). Who else? DeVonta Smith?

 

Trent McDuffie (Elite), Creed Humphrey (Elite), and Rashee Rice (Near-Elite). Who else? L'Jarious Sneed?

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by JGMcD2

[CookieG]

I think Steve Smith gave the best analysis of Keon Coleman's rookie year.

 

 

 

To sum it up...Keon has work to do.  It isn't just his lack of downfield speed, it is his footwork.  Well, it is a number of things.  I hope he is going the Shakir route and reaching out to Moulds in the offseason, or Andre Reed.

 

Never a fan of the pick.  

 

When BTJ started to fall, I was hoping they would trade up for him.  He was the consensus 4th WR in a stacked WR draft. He had at least Coleman's contested catch ability, his size, but he also had sub 4.4 speed, ability to get open deep, and being far better in most routes.  In short, BTJ was a far better prospect

 

 I think Beane said he tried to trade up for BTJ, but teams wanted his 2nd rounder, which he didn't want to give up.  But what he didn't say whether he offered anyone one of his 2 2025 2nd round picks. A team like Pittsburgh at 20 or Philly at 22 might have taken one of those to move down.  

 

Instead, he kept his 2nd in 2024 and drafted Cole Bishop, a guy that really didn't do much to impress in his first year.  We traded down with the Chiefs, and swapped a 4th to move up into the 3rd and picked a 3 tech in Dewayne Carter. 

 

Just a year later he used both of those 2025 2nd round picks to move up and take...another 3 tech. Keep in mind that Carter and Sanders are playing behind/spelling  Ed Oliver.    

 

IDK, between 2024 and in 2025, I see a great deal of maneuvering, Im not seeing a great deal of benefit.  Sanders better be the true stud they hope he is. 

 

We got a pretty meh WR and with a little work, we could have gotten a bona fide stud. 

 

 

[pennstate10]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Mailata isn't elite? Are you serious? Wow. He is the best left tackle in football right now.

Well, I guess it depends on how you define elite. Is it top 25? Top 50?  Top 100?  Or some completely different metric. 
 

For what it’s worth, ESPN and NFL each put out a top 100 list. Base on a panel of experts or NFL players. 
 

Mailata wasn’t on either list. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

If you agree with much of my post, you agree with the notion that Beane has drafted roughly 4 of the top 85 (Elite + Near-Elite) players in the National Football League since 2018.

 

How many of the top 85 have Veach and Roseman drafted in that same timeframe?

 

Jordan Mailata (Elite), Jalen Hurts (Near-Elite) and Jalen Carter (Near-Elite). Who else? DeVonta Smith?

 

Trent McDuffie (Elite), Creed Humphrey (Elite), and Rashee Rice (Near-Elite). Who else? L'Jarious Sneed?

 

 

 

I don't have Cook yet in the near elite. I have him, as I said above, two steps away from that status rather than Brown and Benford who are one. And while I dobn't know exactly what numbers.... yea I broadly think Beane has been good at getting guys in your 2nd and 3rd category. Again I might quibble a bit about a player or two (Bernard isn't in that territory for me).

 

As for other Chiefs and Eagles I'd throw into the conversation..  it probably is just Creed and Rashee for the Chiefs. The next 4 would be Sneed, Trey Smith, Nick Bolton and Karlaftis but think they are all in the very good rather than near elite bucket. 

 

Howie has more. He still has Lane Johnson from his first spell (before the Chip Kelly having GM control disaster) who I don't think is quite elite anymore but is still near elite. Then Landon Dickerson who is near elite too.  Smith I'd put in the very good category personally but can take an argument either way. And then the two DBs last year who were near elite as rooks. If they both back it up in 2025 they could both well be in elite territory.

12 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Well, I guess it depends on how you define elite. Is it top 25? Top 50?  Top 100?  Or some completely different metric. 
 

For what it’s worth, ESPN and NFL each put out a top 100 list. Base on a panel of experts or NFL players. 
 

Mailata wasn’t on either list. 

 

He has been the best left tackle in football over the last four years. He is elite. End of discussion for me.

[Doc]

Mailata was a 7th round International Pathway player.  Basically stupid good luck since those guys are more or less dartboarded to teams.

[LEBills]

25 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Well, I guess it depends on how you define elite. Is it top 25? Top 50?  Top 100?  Or some completely different metric. 
 

For what it’s worth, ESPN and NFL each put out a top 100 list. Base on a panel of experts or NFL players. 
 

Mailata wasn’t on either list. 

Mailata was second team All pro last year, so top 4 tackle by that standard 

[JGMcD2]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't have Cook yet in the near elite. I have him, as I said above, two steps away from that status rather than Brown and Benford who are one. And while I dobn't know exactly what numbers.... yea I broadly think Beane has been good at getting guys in your 2nd and 3rd category. Again I might quibble a bit about a player or two (Bernard isn't in that territory for me).

 

As for other Chiefs and Eagles I'd throw into the conversation..  it probably is just Creed and Rashee for the Chiefs. The next 4 would be Sneed, Trey Smith, Nick Bolton and Karlaftis but think they are all in the very good rather than near elite bucket. 

 

Howie has more. He still has Lane Johnson from his first spell (before the Chip Kelly having GM control disaster) who I don't think is quite elite anymore but is still near elite. Then Landon Dickerson who is near elite too.  Smith I'd put in the very good category personally but can take an argument either way. And then the two DBs last year who were near elite as rooks. If they both back it up in 2025 they could both well be in elite territory.

Can you help me better understand where the disconnect is then? Whether we quibble over a guy or two... we've come to terms with the fact that he's done just as well as Veach and maybe a tick behind Roseman (I'm not counting Lane Johnson, it was 5 years before Beane sat in the GM chair)?

[appoo]

anywho....Keon is gonna be good this year

[bigK14094]

On 5/16/2025 at 9:09 PM, oldmanfan said:

Coleman needs to improve, as most rookies do going into their second year.  Beane has said this especially with respect to his play after coming back from injury.  Why assume he won’t?

If he is as hard a worker as Josh Allen, he will do fine.  But, I don't k\now his work ethic, do you?

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Can you help me better understand where the disconnect is then? Whether we quibble over a guy or two... we've come to terms with the fact that he's done just as well as Veach and maybe a tick behind Roseman (I'm not counting Lane Johnson, it was 5 years before Beane sat in the GM chair)?

 

Because those guys have multiple elite players on their rosters and Beane has one. 

[JGMcD2]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Because those guys have multiple elite players on their rosters and Beane has one. 

We're talking about drafts since 2018. We agreed that Howie has drafted one elite player since 2018 (Mailata) and Veach has drafted two elite players since 2018 (McDuffie and Humphrey). I don't care that John Dorsey drafted Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce and Chris Jones for Brett Veach to inherit. I don't care that Howie Roseman drafted Lane Johnson 4th overall half a decade before Brandon Beane arrived in Buffalo.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

We're talking about drafts since 2018. We agreed that Howie has drafted one elite player since 2018 (Mailata) and Veach has drafted two elite players since 2018 (McDuffie and Humphrey). I don't care that John Dorsey drafted Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce and Chris Jones for Brett Veach to inherit. I don't care that Howie Roseman drafted Lane Johnson 4th overall half a decade before Brandon Beane arrived in Buffalo.

 

You might not. I do. Cos when January comes around it matters.

Edited 2 hours ago by GunnerBill

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You might not. I do.

You care that McDermott/Whaley drafted White, Dawkins and Milano the year before but you don't give a flying ***** that Dorsey drafted Mahomes, Kelce and Jones?

 

Gunner, that doesn't make any sense. You're grading them on a completely different scale then. 

 

This whole discourse is centered around Beane's ability to draft elite talent compared to his peers. 

Edited 2 hours ago by JGMcD2

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

 

This whole discourse is centered around Beane's ability to draft elite talent compared to his peers. 

 

It's actually centered on his ability to put elite talent around Josh. That is what matters. 

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's actually centered on his ability to put elite talent around Josh. That is what matters. 

Is it? Here is the first post that I replied to from you:

Yep. I'm not the one arguing Beane has had more busts than others. I actually think he has had less. The issue I have with his drafting is at the other end of the scale.

 

Here is your reply to me:

 

I get it. It is harder drafting where the Bills do. And that is a legit excuse 2 years in. 3 years in. 4 years in. Beane is 8 drafts in. Other than 2018 - where drafting Allen trumps all else - he hasn't even had a draft that matched McDermott's 2017 haul of White, Dawkins, Milano. 

 

This isn't a Beane sucks or fire Beane post. But it is a legitmate criticsm at this stage. 

 

You're moving the goal posts, this is not something I expect out of you. 

Edited 1 hour ago by JGMcD2

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

Is it? Here is the first post that I replied to from you:

Yep. I'm not the one arguing Beane has had more busts than others. I actually think he has had less. The issue I have with his drafting is at the other end of the scale.

 

Here is your reply to me:

 

I get it. It is harder drafting where the Bills do. And that is a legit excuse 2 years in. 3 years in. 4 years in. Beane is 8 drafts in. Other than 2018 - where drafting Allen trumps all else - he hasn't even had a draft that matched McDermott's 2017 haul of White, Dawkins, Milano. 

 

This isn't a Beane sucks or fire Beane post. But it is a legitmate criticsm at this stage. 

 

You're moving the goal posts, this is not something I expect out of you. 

 

Yes. And all you have proved is the only elite guy he has drafted is Josh Allen. We are talking about putting elite talent around Josh Allen. That is what I meant. Veach technically inherited his QB (although he was the guy that idenfied him which is why he was promoted and Dorsey let go) but he has put more elite players around Mahomes than Beane has around Josh. And Howie has put more elite players around Hurts (who isn't himself elite so needs more pieces). Your own assessment supports that.

[oldmanfan]

43 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

If he is as hard a worker as Josh Allen, he will do fine.  But, I don't k\now his work ethic, do you?

I know he was working out with CeeDee Lamb this off-season.  

[balln]

2 hours ago, CookieG said:

I think Steve Smith gave the best analysis of Keon Coleman's rookie year.

 

 

 

To sum it up...Keon has work to do.  It isn't just his lack of downfield speed, it is his footwork.  Well, it is a number of things.  I hope he is going the Shakir route and reaching out to Moulds in the offseason, or Andre Reed.

 

Never a fan of the pick.  

 

When BTJ started to fall, I was hoping they would trade up for him.  He was the consensus 4th WR in a stacked WR draft. He had at least Coleman's contested catch ability, his size, but he also had sub 4.4 speed, ability to get open deep, and being far better in most routes.  In short, BTJ was a far better prospect

 

 I think Beane said he tried to trade up for BTJ, but teams wanted his 2nd rounder, which he didn't want to give up.  But what he didn't say whether he offered anyone one of his 2 2025 2nd round picks. A team like Pittsburgh at 20 or Philly at 22 might have taken one of those to move down.  

 

Instead, he kept his 2nd in 2024 and drafted Cole Bishop, a guy that really didn't do much to impress in his first year.  We traded down with the Chiefs, and swapped a 4th to move up into the 3rd and picked a 3 tech in Dewayne Carter. 

 

Just a year later he used both of those 2025 2nd round picks to move up and take...another 3 tech. Keep in mind that Carter and Sanders are playing behind/spelling  Ed Oliver.    

 

IDK, between 2024 and in 2025, I see a great deal of maneuvering, Im not seeing a great deal of benefit.  Sanders better be the true stud they hope he is. 

 

We got a pretty meh WR and with a little work, we could have gotten a bona fide stud. 

 

 

Great post. It’s why Jeremy and Wgr are correct. Beane and the org don’t value WR to the same degree 

[MikeSpeed]

Well I think Johnson, Williams, and Smith are all elite. When John works his magic, he can be elite also. Not to mention TLC, HI, and DOG.

 

Just poking fun at the post that assume we know who your talking about when you use just a first or last name or initials.

 

Here's my take on KC. I mean Colman. I mean Keon. Oh you know number 0. I have little to zero faith he can gain the ability to get separation. I think it's a tough trait to develop if it doesn't come naturally. Here's hoping he proves us doubters wrong.

I'll slunk back under my rock now.

[starrymessenger]

12 minutes ago, balln said:

Great post. It’s why Jeremy and Wgr are correct. Beane and the org don’t value WR to the same degree 

Five games into his rookie season (before injury) Steve Smith told Sports Illustrated that Keon Coleman was "one heck of a football player". Just sayin. In fairness, the thought was also expressed that playing him exclusively as a dedicated X from the get go without the benefit of scheme touches and motion was too much to put on the kid's plate given the step up in competition. I note that even Brian Thomas takes 30% of his snaps from the slot. 
I'm pretty confident that Keon can play from the slot. I can think of game situations where you might use a big slot effectively. Contrary to many I think he can also play outside, but only if he can learn to do some of the things that Boldin could do. I wouldn't set that bar for just any big "slow" receiver. I say it because he is a rare physical specimen who probably has the physical attributes to do it. It's largely up to him imo.