James Cook absent from OTA's

[Einstein's Dog]

10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The solution is really is really easy to avoid any kind of holdout and I'd love for somebody to tell me if you can add incentives to a rookie contract on the final year of a deal.  If he can get up to maybe $3m in incentives you'd still get maximum effort from him, keep him from being a distraction, and not have to commit long term.

I've seen you allude to this twice now and IMO it may set a bad precedent for Beane.  The excellent deals Beane has been able to negotiate with the draft picks are dependent upon them offering a big pile of guaranteed money for contracting future years at their current market rates.  You don't give a raise for a year and see how it turns out.  

 

Using Benford as an example, you give him two options - play out his current contract and then get big money as a FA if he doesn't get injured, or get a haul of guaranteed money now at your market rate.  No middle roading it.  Take it or leave it.  Most players want guaranteed money now.

 

So for Cook a similar negotiation was probably offered (and vehemently rejected from what we can tell).  Following the protocol from above the FO would have offered Cook big guaranteed money to contract for future years at his current market value.  I would guess his current market value would be around D Henry $8-9/yr for the future years.   You can then see how Cook's team, that has the emotional IQ of a teenage school girl, would go to social media demanding $15M.  You do not placate that by giving a one year exception.

[RoscoeParrish]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

They wont hit FA. Beane will have McGovern and Torrence extended before they hit FA. Its already been reported that talks with McGovern have started.

They don’t have to hit FA to get market value though.

 

the Bills have massive money put out to their bookend OTs. But they are right around league average at OL spend in 2025 because the interior OL is so cheap. Thats going to change, dramatically. 
 

David Edwards is making $3M AAV. McGovern is making $7.5M AAV. 
 

Let’s say McGoven asks for $12M AAV (which is top 7 C money) and Edwards asks for $10M which is top 20 OG money, there’s an extra $11.5M to account for. That’s basically the raise Cook is asking for.

 

Sure, I know we can just say “add void years” but we do that all the time already. 
 

In 2026, we have void dead money on:

Bosa

Larry O

Milano

McGovern

Jones

AJE

 

for a grand total of $29M in voided dead money. 
 

So there goes the cap jump and then some.

 

I think we can make it work to get them all back but then this is the team without significant adds for the rest of Josh’s prime.

Edited 5 hours ago by RoscoeParrish

[balln]

53 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Notice you took out Robinson to help prove a point.    Outside of the offensive line, Barkley and Gibbs are elite receiving threats.  Can we all admit that Cook while ok in that respect can also be frustrating to watch catch the ball?  Do we really want to compare Cook and Henry as runners or blockers?   Listen I really like the guy too.  I'd love to see him on the Bills for a few more years.  But lets be realistic about who is beyond our emotional attachment to him.

 

 

He had two dropped tds 2 years ago. Frustrating. But he’s caught some filthy ones. Dallas home game 

 

he’s really

good. Beanes chosen to offer medium to top 10 money to meh players. Rousseau. Cook is 3x the player he is. Pay him

Edited 4 hours ago by balln

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Barkley had injuries and absolute zero threat of the pass in his years with the Giants, the only reason he looked “bad” was the dog crap around him and injury.  
 

If you want to follow the logic you are using, then Cook is a product of the system and would be garbage elsewhere.

Cool, so if he played 3x as much, he’s worth 6M a year.  So Cook is a 2 down guy, guess he’s worth 4M by your standards.

 

Right - but that's kind of the point.  Would the team be better off spending more on OL or WR than running back?  

 

With Saquan - they had 1874 rushing yards and a 4.1 YPC average

Without Saquan - they had 1783 rushing yards and a 4.2 YPC average

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, balln said:

He had two dropped tds last year. Frustrating. But he’s caught some filthy ones. Dallas home game 

 

he’s really

good. Beanes chosen to offer medium to top 10 money to meh players. Rousseau. Cook is 3x the player he is. Pay him

 

They paid Rousseau who plays a premium position in the NFL top 15 money.     James Cook is looking to be paid somewhere in the top 1-3 at his position.     Do you think Cook is one of the 3 best backs in football?

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

They don’t have to hit FA to get market value though.

 

 

Great post, and I dont mean to dismiss it by chopping so much out. Rather, this is the one point I want to add to...

 

Given Beane's track record on early extensions, it can be assumed we'll get some discount and not full market value.

 

For the rest of it, we'll all hope that streaming money keeps flowing in.

[thenorthremembers]

52 minutes ago, klos63 said:

The Falcons oline is rated better than the Eagles.

Happy now?

No,  he's not frustrating to watch catch the ball,  he's had drops,  those are the frustrating ones,  but when they throw to him he's dynamic.  

Watch his highlights from last season,  he really had a tremendous year. 

I am not arguing that he had a fantastic year.  And again, I like watching the guy play.   What I dont want to do is have the Bills pay him that much money given the fact they have a great offensive line.  

[RoscoeParrish]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Great post, and I dont mean to dismiss it by chopping so much out. Rather, this is the one point I want to add to...

 

Given Beane's track record on early extensions, it can be assumed we'll get some discount and not full market value.

 

For the rest of it, we'll all hope that streaming money keeps flowing in.

It’s certainly possible. 
 

I was kind of assuming a discount with those ballpark numbers. 
 

Edwards has made no money his whole career. He was signed and extended for backup OG money after being a day 3 pick. He’s 28, which means this could be his only payday. I think he’s supremely underrated as a very consistent IOL guy. 
 

Getting him at 3y $7M AAV would be a steal. I bet he gets closer to $10M imo.

[without a drought]

No one here knows how much he really wants or what the Bills are willing to pay, but I do know that Ty Johnson is making $1mil more than Cook and Darrynton Evans is only $200,000 behind Cook along with Ray Davis only $300,000 behind.

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

11 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

It’s certainly possible. 
 

I was kind of assuming a discount with those ballpark numbers. 
 

Edwards has made no money his whole career. He was signed and extended for backup OG money after being a day 3 pick. He’s 28, which means this could be his only payday. I think he’s supremely underrated as a very consistent IOL guy. 
 

Getting him at 3y $7M AAV would be a steal. I bet he gets closer to $10M imo.

 

I think Edwards is a super interesting case where fit and comfort may play a huge part in his thinking process. 

 

First, his work with Aaron Kromer has to be important. At the beginning of his career under Kromer, Edwards looked like Torrence does now, one of the best young guards in the NFL who was about to cash in. Kromer left, and Edwards's play fell off. Now, he is back to top form under Kromer again. 

 

In LA, for whatever reason, he dealt with injuries and, similar to Mitch Morse had a concussion that ended his season and looked like it could end his career. Here, he has had no issues at all with that. So maybe it's the trainers and staff, or the techniques that Kromer teaches, but he has been able to avoid head injuries. 

 

To me, I am not sure the huge pay day is worth leaving a place that has provided Edwards with so much stability. Additionally, Kromer is unique in his teaching, which isn't replicated around the NFL. I think Edwards is a more likely sign than Connor McGovern or Torrence. 

Edited 4 hours ago by MrEpsYtown

[jkeerie]

5 minutes ago, without a drought said:

No one here knows how much he really wants or what the Bills are willing to pay, but I do know that Ty Johnson is making $1mil more than Cook and Darrynton Evans is only $200,000 behind Cook along with Ray Davis only $300,000 behind.

 

 

He'll obviously get more than them...but $15M is too much.

[Doc Brown]

23 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I've seen you allude to this twice now and IMO it may set a bad precedent for Beane.  The excellent deals Beane has been able to negotiate with the draft picks are dependent upon them offering a big pile of guaranteed money for contracting future years at their current market rates.  You don't give a raise for a year and see how it turns out.  

 

Using Benford as an example, you give him two options - play out his current contract and then get big money as a FA if he doesn't get injured, or get a haul of guaranteed money now at your market rate.  No middle roading it.  Take it or leave it.  Most players want guaranteed money now.

 

So for Cook a similar negotiation was probably offered (and vehemently rejected from what we can tell).  Following the protocol from above the FO would have offered Cook big guaranteed money to contract for future years at his current market value.  I would guess his current market value would be around D Henry $8-9/yr for the future years.   You can then see how Cook's team, that has the emotional IQ of a teenage school girl, would go to social media demanding $15M.  You do not placate that by giving a one year exception.

There's enough sympathy for RB's that if you were to add an incentive to the last year of their rookie deal that's pry the position you do it at.  Also, we're only talking about $3m that might not even be earned.  He still runs the risks of all the guys that we did sign to extensions this year avoided.  Getting seriously injured on the last year of his rookie deal.

[Einstein's Dog]

6 minutes ago, without a drought said:

No one here knows how much he really wants or what the Bills are willing to pay, but I do know that Ty Johnson is making $1mil more than Cook and Darrynton Evans is only $200,000 behind Cook along with Ray Davis only $300,000 behind.

 

What?  Where are you getting your incorrect figures from?  Ty makes about $2.5/yr and Cook will get $5M this year.

[DrDawkinstein]

12 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

It’s certainly possible. 
 

I was kind of assuming a discount with those ballpark numbers. 
 

Edwards has made no money his whole career. He was signed and extended for backup OG money after being a day 3 pick. He’s 28, which means this could be his only payday. I think he’s supremely underrated as a very consistent IOL guy. 
 

Getting him at 3y $7M AAV would be a steal. I bet he gets closer to $10M imo.

 

Edwards has been discussed here as the one player on the OL who will likely leave well before these Cook talks ever started. So I dont see it as "paying Cook made us lose Edwards".

 

Theres been a lot of talk about Alec Anderson being groomed to take his place after his contract is up. Again, all independent of the Cook situation.

 

Point is, I think we'll be ok if Edwards is the one OL we lose.

[RoscoeParrish]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I think Edwards is a super interesting case where fit and comfort may play a huge part in his thinking process. 

 

First his work with Aaron Kromer has to be important. At the begging of his career under Kromer, Edwards looked like Torrence does now, one of the best young guards in the NFL who was about to cash in. Kromer left and Edwards play fell off. Now he is back to top form under Kromer again. 

 

In LA, for whatever reason, he dealt with injuries and, similar to Mitch Morse had a concussion that ended his season and looked like it could end his career. Here, he has had no issues at all with that. So maybe it's the trainers and staff, or the techniques that Kromer teaches, but he has been able to avoid head injuries. 

 

To me, I am not sure the huge pay day is worth leaving a place that has provided Edwards with so much stability. Additionally, Kromer is unique in his teaching, which isn't replicated around the NFL. I think Edwards is a more likely sign than Connor McGovern or Torrence. 

That line of thinking making sense if the most important thing to Edwards is to play at a moderately high level for the next 2-3 years of his career.

 

If his goal is to make 3x his career earnings in the next 2-3 years (which for most NFL players, it is), he will likely seek out the payday. 
 

He’s made $12M in his career, but his career is almost over imo. Certainly on the back nine. If he gets a nice offer of 3 for $30M with $22M guaranteed, I do not think he chooses fit.

 

Hell, this topic is about a player like Cook in a great situation with a great OL and an All-Time QB potentially walking over $3M. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, without a drought said:

No one here knows how much he really wants or what the Bills are willing to pay, but I do know that Ty Johnson is making $1mil more than Cook and Darrynton Evans is only $200,000 behind Cook along with Ray Davis only $300,000 behind.

 

 

 

This isn't true though - Cook's making about 3x what any of them make this year.  

[RoscoeParrish]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Edwards has been discussed here as the one player on the OL who will likely leave well before these Cook talks ever started. So I dont see it as "paying Cook made us lose Edwards".

 

Theres been a lot of talk about Alec Anderson being groomed to take his place after his contract is up. Again, all independent of the Cook situation.

 

Point is, I think we'll be ok if Edwards is the one OL we lose.

No contracts are independent of other contracts in a salary cap league.

 

Maybe he will leave, maybe he won’t, but signing Edwards will make paying Cook harder and vice versa. 
 

And I think Edwards is better than OCT and would be an actual huge blow to the IOL. The “grooming” of late rounders or UDFA to take over OL spots is kind of a myth at this point. We heard the same thing about Ike Boettenger and Rick Bates and both guys were just what they were, solid ninth or tenth OL depth and not much more.

[Virgil]

I'm at the point where I would pay him.  I would give him a frontloaded contract, while we have the money, and decent sized bonus.  Let him have the "big in appearance contract" that really gives him a bonus, 10-12 mil per for the first two years, but the team can get out of it after year 3.

 

 

[Returntoglory]

53 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

  You can then see how Cook's team, that has the emotional IQ of a teenage school girl, would go to social media demanding $15M.  

My, you're awfully kind with your assessment.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, RoscoeParrish said:

No contracts are independent of other contracts in a salary cap league.

 

Maybe he will leave, maybe he won’t, but signing Edwards will make paying Cook harder and vice versa. 
 

And I think Edwards is better than OCT and would be an actual huge blow to the IOL. The “grooming” of late rounders or UDFA to take over OL spots is kind of a myth at this point. We heard the same thing about Ike Boettenger and Rick Bates and both guys were just what they were, solid ninth or tenth OL depth and not much more.

 

Boettger was starting to trend up in 2021, then he tore his achilles and i don't think he played much after that, by the time he was healthy they had brought in torrence, mcgovern, and edwards.  

 

I always saw Bates as a Center, but they moved him around a bunch and then overpaid him.  The pick they traded him for ended up going back and forth like 4x between buffalo and chicago which is kinda fun: