Ben Johnson?? Ben Johnson?? LOL

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I think Ben Johnson has real upside as a coach. Vrabel is a good coach, maybe better than McDermott. Having Beane in the equation also creates a cloud because he has the Carolina priorities woven into his team building. Basically, if he's here I think he would hold back both the above guys as well!

[billsfan714]

3 hours ago, zow2 said:

As I posted in another thread.  We knew he was a very good O coordinator but Ben Johnson is way better as a HC than i thought he'd be.  The Bears leading the NFC North after 12 weeks over Det and GB, is a big accomplishment. 

 

Yeah, tell that to the Sabres.  As we all know, there is so much more to turning a losing franchise around in any pro sport.

And the Jets.

[Big Turk]

I feel like the Bears are last years Commanders. Will not be able to repeat what happened this year as they had a lot of luck go their way.

[Watkins90]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

And then the Bills had the 2nd best winning percentage in North American professional sports over a period of years, behind only the Chiefs. Let’s not ignore history just to try to prove your point.

 

Beside, I’m told by people here that it means nothing without a SB win as HC. 

 

I know McD is far from perfect (for example, I wish he would hire guys smarter than him as coordinators rather than clear underlings), but some people here get so caught up in emotion that they often fail to see the big picture. It’s not personal, so I try not to get emotional. Might they be better HC’s in the long run? That wouldn’t shock me, but a dozen weeks of football is too soon to crown anyone. 

Vrabel was competitive with Marcus Mariotta. Now that he has a competent QB, look at what he can do. If we had fired McDermott last year and hired Vrabel we'd be 10-2. He is that much better of a coach. 

[jethro_tull]

24 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I feel like the Bears are last years Commanders. Will not be able to repeat what happened this year as they had a lot of luck go their way.

and an easy schedule

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Ben Johnson is an elite coach. He and Mike Vrabel will battle it out for COY. They deserve it. That franchise was a disaster and now they’re leading their division. The same goes for the Pats. They both have elite coaches and QBs that look like they can play. 
 

Both of those coaches would have been clear upgrades for the Bills. The Bills coaching is okay. It’s not bad. It’s not great. These guys are doing a great job. It’s the equivalent of having Baker as your QB instead of Josh. He’s fine but there is better. Both Johnson and Vrabel are better. 

The problem is that short term coaches burn hot and wear out their welcome while long term coaches go through peaks and valleys.  

I see the Chiefs in a similar position as the Bills- kind of stale at the moment.  

[LarryMadman]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

And then the Bills had the 2nd best winning percentage in North American professional sports over a period of years, behind only the Chiefs. Let’s not ignore history just to try to prove your point.

 

Beside, I’m told by people here that it means nothing without a SB win as HC. 

 

I know McD is far from perfect (for example, I wish he would hire guys smarter than him as coordinators rather than clear underlings), but some people here get so caught up in emotion that they often fail to see the big picture. It’s not personal, so I try not to get emotional. Might they be better HC’s in the long run? That wouldn’t shock me, but a dozen weeks of football is too soon to crown anyone. 

Yay, they won some games with no championships, yay! Some would argue the Bills have won because of Allen not because of McDermott and what we absolutely know is their playoff failures are 100% not due to #17, there is no debating that.

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

And then the Bills had the 2nd best winning percentage in North American professional sports over a period of years, behind only the Chiefs. Let’s not ignore history just to try to prove your point.

 

Beside, I’m told by people here that it means nothing without a SB win as HC. 

 

I know McD is far from perfect (for example, I wish he would hire guys smarter than him as coordinators rather than clear underlings), but some people here get so caught up in emotion that they often fail to see the big picture. It’s not personal, so I try not to get emotional. Might they be better HC’s in the long run? That wouldn’t shock me, but a dozen weeks of football is too soon to crown anyone. 

 

I think the bigger thing that goes unsaid is that everything in the NFL is stacked against teams to make it very hard to sustain the level of success the Bills, Chiefs, etc have had over this long of a period of time.

 

From the Cap, to lower draft picks, to harder schedules, etc.

 

The fact they both have been this good for this long flies in the face of what the NFL is trying to achieve.

[Saint Doug]

At the end of the day, I would pick Ben Johnson running the Bills 99/100 days rather than McD. I think Chicago will be a formidable opponent over the coming years. A team on the rise, instead of…

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, jethro_tull said:

and an easy schedule

The problem is that short term coaches burn hot and wear out their welcome while long term coaches go through peaks and valleys.  

I see the Chiefs in a similar position as the Bills- kind of stale at the moment.  

No doubt. Stale is the exact way to describe it. You can’t have stale with Josh or you miss your window. This team needs a lot of change to be back to an elite contender. They CAN win but everything needs to be perfect. They’re flawed. The quickest way to make significant change is at coaching

[Augie]

45 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think the bigger thing that goes unsaid is that everything in the NFL is stacked against teams to make it very hard to sustain the level of success the Bills, Chiefs, etc have had over this long of a period of time.

 

From the Cap, to lower draft picks, to harder schedules, etc.

 

The fact they both have been this good for this long flies in the face of what the NFL is trying to achieve.

 

It also goes to point out that we don’t suck the way some pretend we do. I think Kirby put it best when he said something like we have a Baker level HC, not a Josh level HC. I don’t disagree, but getting a Josh level HC as your next guy is a gamble that has to be acknowledged and considered.

 

Rings mean everything to some people here, and the guys they currently put on a pedestal have the same number of rings as a HC as McD. May they be better in the long run? Very possible, time will tell. 

 

I just don’t get the people who get so upset over something they have no control over. They get so personally and emotionally wrapped up in it they begin to have delusions of grandeur like they are qualified to be running the show. I find that amusing. 

 

I’m not a hard core McD guy the way some are anti-McD. The truth is rarely in the extremes, just like the real world. 

 

 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

And then the Bills had the 2nd best winning percentage in North American professional sports over a period of years, behind only the Chiefs. Let’s not ignore history just to try to prove your point.

 

Beside, I’m told by people here that it means nothing without a SB win as HC. 

 

I know McD is far from perfect (for example, I wish he would hire guys smarter than him as coordinators rather than clear underlings), but some people here get so caught up in emotion that they often fail to see the big picture. It’s not personal, so I try not to get emotional. Might they be better HC’s in the long run? That wouldn’t shock me, but a dozen weeks of football is too soon to crown anyone. 

if a missed coaching hire drops that to 22nd, but a successful one has a Lombardi… you take that chance every single time, right? 
 

How low do you see the floor being if you hire someone generally considered to be a reasonable candidate?

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

if a missed coaching hire drops that to 22nd, but a successful one has a Lombardi… you take that chance every single time, right? 
 

How low do you see the floor being if you hire someone generally considered to be a reasonable candidate?

 

Gruden or another Rex type of candidate would make me put my fandom on hold. This will be unpopular, but I don’t hate what the Bills are doing as much as some of the fans who just look for things to B^&%* about. While we have some intelligent and informed people here, I don’t think the average Bills fan is half as smart as he thinks he is. Look around. 

 

This may be even more unpopular, but I wouldn’t care if Gruden lucked into another SB ring with any team. I’d rather be without a ring than have him as our coach. I think I just may have different values and sense of what is important than some people here. I won’t sell my soul for them to win a trophy. It’s fine if others want to feel differently, that’s just me. I’m not telling anyone else how to think or feel. 

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Gruden or another Rex type of candidate would make me put my fandom on hold. This will be unpopular, but I don’t hate what the Bills are doing as much as some of the fans who just look for things to B^&%* about. While we have some intelligent and informed people here, I don’t think the average Bills fan is half as smart as he thinks he is. Look around. 

 

This may be even more unpopular, but I wouldn’t care if Gruden lucked into another SB ring with any team. I’d rather be without a ring than have him as our coach. I think I just may have different values and sense of what is important than some people here. I won’t sell my soul for them to win a trophy. It’s fine if others want to feel differently, that’s just me. I’m not telling anyone else how to think or feel. 

your mistake is in thinking nfl fandom is somehow reflective of a person's character, or intelligence. it's neither

 

 

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

your mistake is in thinking nfl fandom is somehow reflective of a person's character, or intelligence. it's neither

 

 

 

Your mistake is thinking you know what’s in my mind. You don’t. 

[NoSaint]

36 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Gruden or another Rex type of candidate would make me put my fandom on hold. This will be unpopular, but I don’t hate what the Bills are doing as much as some of the fans who just look for things to B^&%* about. While we have some intelligent and informed people here, I don’t think the average Bills fan is half as smart as he thinks he is. Look around. 

 

This may be even more unpopular, but I wouldn’t care if Gruden lucked into another SB ring with any team. I’d rather be without a ring than have him as our coach. I think I just may have different values and sense of what is important than some people here. I won’t sell my soul for them to win a trophy. It’s fine if others want to feel differently, that’s just me. I’m not telling anyone else how to think or feel. 

I may be overstepping but I don’t think gruden is the guy folks are clamoring for as hiring a reasonable selection.
 

The dudes coach 3-4 out of the last 15+ years? 

 

I think the fact that you went straight to gruden and Rex may be PTSD from the darker  days. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

40 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Gruden or another Rex type of candidate would make me put my fandom on hold. This will be unpopular, but I don’t hate what the Bills are doing as much as some of the fans who just look for things to B^&%* about. While we have some intelligent and informed people here, I don’t think the average Bills fan is half as smart as he thinks he is. Look around. 

 

This may be even more unpopular, but I wouldn’t care if Gruden lucked into another SB ring with any team. I’d rather be without a ring than have him as our coach. I think I just may have different values and sense of what is important than some people here. I won’t sell my soul for them to win a trophy. It’s fine if others want to feel differently, that’s just me. I’m not telling anyone else how to think or feel. 

And that is why we dont have championships.  I would rather have a pure a hole as a HC and a Lombardi in the trophy case

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

And that is why we dont have championships.  I would rather have a pure a hole as a HC and a Lombardi in the trophy case

getting easier to separate the McDermott fans from the Bills fans

[Augie]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

I may be overstepping but I don’t think gruden is the guy folks are clamoring for as hiring a reasonable selection.
 

The dudes coach 3-4 out of the last 15+ years? 

 

I think the fact that you went straight to gruden and Rex may be PTSD from the darker  days. 

 

No, I’ve seen people right here suggesting/proposing him, which strengthens my point that there is a lot of nonsense here.  There are no slam dunks as options, just some more attractive than others. 

 

I’m not here to defend McD and Beane. I’m as frustrated as the next guy. I just see people wanting to change for the sake of change, and that sounds emotional and immature to me. Even the “good options” are not sure things, but people here like to think the grass is always greener. I’m not tied to any one person or thing on the Bills, so if and when change happens I’ll see how I feel at that time.  

 

I’m not sure what they should do, and I freely admit that. I do know that a lot will depend on how the rest of the season goes, so I’ll just wait and see before forming an opinion. We have rallied from 6-6 in the past, so at least we know it could get exciting. 

14 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

And that is why we dont have championships.  I would rather have a pure a hole as a HC and a Lombardi in the trophy case

 

And that is your prerogative. I fully grant you that. I’m going to live my life my way, and I don’t want to feel dirty over a football team. That’s just not worth it to me personally. 

[Buffalo ill]

4 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Vrabel is a good coach, maybe better than McDermott.

What I noticed in the earlier meeting is the Patriots players actually seem to know how to tackle.  I get that nfl offensive stars can make people miss, but I cannot stand to see well compensated professional defenders not know or care to wrap up and tackle.

[Jay_Fixit]

I'm jealous of other coaches.

 

Also, just popping my head in to see if GoBills808 can still read Augie's mind.