Receiver separation is still BAD

[Pete]

F this stupid graph.  Open your eyes and watch- Bills have been getting separation 

[GunnerBill]

  On 10/29/2024 at 11:01 PM, RyanC883 said:

 

missing a burner and/or elite route runner to get separation

Expand  

 

Cooper has only played 57 snaps and not all of those are passes so he is a very small bit of the data that goes into that chart. 

[NewEra]

  On 10/30/2024 at 9:33 AM, Pete said:

F this stupid graph.  Open your eyes and watch- Bills have been getting separation 

Expand  

But stats!!!!!  

[GunnerBill]

  On 10/30/2024 at 10:13 AM, NewEra said:

But stats!!!!!  

Expand  

 

I mean my eyes do still tell me through 8 games the Bills, apart from Shakir, have had issues separating. That is what the stats are tracking. Did we see flashes from Coop v the Titans? Yep. Have we seen a bit more separation from Keon the last three weeks now they are not just running him vertically 90% of the time? Yep. But this is 8 weeks worth of data it isn't going to shift immediately based on the past couple of games. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

  On 10/29/2024 at 11:16 PM, strive_for_five_guy said:

So Justin Fields is more accurate than Josh Allen??? 🤔

Expand  

Yeah if anything that should make us take this with a grain of salt 

[Bills!Win!]

There are things that just about every superbowl winning team does bad 

[NewEra]

  On 10/30/2024 at 10:24 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean my eyes do still tell me through 8 games the Bills, apart from Shakir, have had issues separating. That is what the stats are tracking. Did we see flashes from Coop v the Titans? Yep. Have we seen a bit more separation from Keon the last three weeks now they are not just running him vertically 90% of the time? Yep. But this is 8 weeks worth of data it isn't going to shift immediately based on the past couple of games. 

Expand  

He posted a graph based on 8 weeks.  After 6 weeks, we knew our separation was bad. It had been linked.  Did anyone expect that graph to change after 2 games and only 50 snaps from cooper?  
If we had added Justin Jefferson or Chase and they played 50 snaps the graph would read just about the same.  
 

 

[GunnerBill]

  On 10/30/2024 at 10:30 AM, NewEra said:

He posted a graph based on 8 weeks.  After 6 weeks, we knew our separation was bad. It had been linked.  Did anyone expect that graph to change after 2 games and only 50 snaps from cooper?  
If we had added Justin Jefferson or Chase and they played 50 snaps the graph would read just about the same.  

Expand  

 

Sure, I completely agree with that. But your "stats!" comment to me read as in "ignore this chart it doesn't match the eye test." I think it does meet the eye test through 8 weeks, even if there are reason especially the last two weeks to be encouraged that it will improve the second half of the year. 

[Roundybout]

  On 10/30/2024 at 10:00 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Cooper has only played 57 snaps and not all of those are passes so he is a very small bit of the data that goes into that chart. 

Expand  

 

Sure, and that will certainly improve things. 

[eball]

I’m glad someone started this thread.  I was getting tired of all of the optimism around here for our 6-2 Bills with the 2nd highest point differential in the league.

 

[Mr. WEO]

why is this even a stat?  what is its importance?

 

The Bills are 6-2.....who cares about separation wtf lol

[eball]

  On 10/30/2024 at 11:52 AM, Mr. WEO said:

why is this even a stat?  what is its importance?

 

The Bills are 6-2.....who cares about separation wtf lol

Expand  

 

[mjt328]

  On 10/30/2024 at 10:24 AM, GunnerBill said:

I mean my eyes do still tell me through 8 games the Bills, apart from Shakir, have had issues separating. That is what the stats are tracking. Did we see flashes from Coop v the Titans? Yep. Have we seen a bit more separation from Keon the last three weeks now they are not just running him vertically 90% of the time? Yep. But this is 8 weeks worth of data it isn't going to shift immediately based on the past couple of games. 

Expand  

 

In the NFL, there are different kinds of separation.

 

There are deep burner/speed guys, who just blow past guys on go routes and post routes.  This is going to cause the most yards of separation, and the Bills don't really have these kinds of guys.  Haven't since John Brown was on the roster.  That is going to knock our number down right from the start.

 

Then there are short area quick guys, who get open with elusive juke moves and route running 5-15 yards downfield.  Most of our guys fall in this bucket.  Khalil Shakir, Amari Cooper and Dalton Kincaid.  Also Curtis Samuel if he ever gets healthy and is utilized properly.  This is what Stefon Diggs and Cole Beasley provided the offense in the past as well.

 

Last you have guys who don't really create much distance/separation from defensive backs, but can still make catches with their size and positioning.  This is the kind of receiver Keon Coleman is.  Jump balls.  Back shoulder throws.  Contested catches.  I would probably throw Dawson Knox into this category too.

 

Note the Bills had their biggest issues in the passing game when Shakir was hurt, and before Cooper arrived.  This left them with only one good separator (Kincaid).  So opponents could just play a single-high safety and shift more attention to him.  Mack Hollins isn't a guy who will consistently get open.  And it's been a gradual process for Josh Allen to trust a rookie in contested situations.

 

[Sweats]

The only stat i need is win/loss, everything else is completely irrelevant to me.

[Man with No Name]

  On 10/29/2024 at 11:27 PM, Maine-iac said:

Coleman is leading AJ Brown does that mean anything?  Coleman is at 2.2 and Pickens is at 2.4.  It's a pretty ridiculous stat to hang your hat on.  Shakir is the 3rd best WR on the list.  It's a talking point but as far as team building you are not going to have a roster of guys who all win by running away from guys.

Expand  

Pickens has next level hand eye coordination and tracking. His eyes and hands just always find a way to the ball. Well, that's what I get from watching about 6 qtrs of steelers football this year. I see a skillset in him that I haven't ever seen in any bills receiver. That's not to say our best guys haven't been better than him in different areas. idk. he is really talented. 

[GunnerBill]

  On 10/30/2024 at 12:24 PM, Man with No Name said:

Pickens has next level hand eye coordination and tracking. His eyes and hands just always find a way to the ball. Well, that's what I get from watching about 6 qtrs of steelers football this year. I see a skillset in him that I haven't ever seen in any bills receiver. That's not to say our best guys haven't been better than him in different areas. idk. he is really talented. 

Expand  

 

Yea Pickens isn't a big separation guy. He is plenty fast enough but he doesn't have the best release package and he isn't really a route runner so he ends up having to make a ton of contested catches or at least catches in traffic. He is, however, elite at and around the catch point. His body control, hands and ability to track the football are elite. What you ideally want opposite him is a proper technician of a route runner. I think if the Bills had drafted him when he came out when they still had a season and a half of prime Diggs to play the other side they would have been borderline unplayable. 

[Roundybout]

  On 10/30/2024 at 11:52 AM, Mr. WEO said:

why is this even a stat?  what is its importance?

 

The Bills are 6-2.....who cares about separation wtf lol

Expand  

Interpret it as a “wow Josh Allen is really accurate” post 

[Einstein]

  On 10/30/2024 at 9:33 AM, Pete said:

F this stupid graph.  Open your eyes and watch- Bills have been getting separation 

Expand  

 

No they don’t.

Turn on ALL-22 and you will see that our receivers are blanketed everywhere.

 

Allen masks a lot of it by buying enough time to let them finally shake a DB, but seperation is bad. I’ve been saying it all year.

[dickleyjones]

Is this the same pff who think geno > josh?

[Mr. WEO]

  On 10/30/2024 at 12:41 PM, Einstein said:

 

No they don’t.

Turn on ALL-22 and you will see that our receivers are blanketed everywhere.

 

Allen masks a lot of it by buying enough time to let them finally shake a DB, but seperation is bad. I’ve been saying it all year.

Expand  

 

Allen has 14 TDs on only 1 int and the Bills are 6-2.  when does this become a problem?