What's the point of this team's philosophy?

[warrior9]

Because this isn't fking Madden. Bills fans are insufferable man. 

[harmonkillebrew]

There should only be one (ok two) person offloaded - Beane/McDermott.

This latest offseason is just further evidence these guys have no clue.  If Josh doesn't will us to the AFC Championship or SB this year, Pegula should axe them.

We are missing out on a generational opportunity with these yo-yos in charge.  

[dpberr]

I think the emphasis on offense shifted to keeping the opposing team's offense off the field for as much of the game as possible - the Philadelphia Eagles strategy.  The run sets up the pass.  

 

With that strategy, you need possession receivers to get the difficult 3rd and 8s, not necessarily track stars for the 50-yard bombs.

 

Keep the defense rested to defend against the expected Burrow/Mahomes shenanigans in the 4th quarter.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

There's zero creativity on offense

 

I only think that was true under Dorsey. Dorsey's O was very vanilla. Very simple. Put a very high tariff on execution. Daboll's offense was creative and we saw way more creativity when Brady took over. I'm not telling you it is Shanahan or Reid, but it is plenty creative enough. And that was just Brady adding wrinkles to Dorsey's offense. I'll be interested to see what we come out with when he has had an offseason to design it. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

So what's our offensive philosophy? It's going to have to be working the short to intermediate. Staying patient. And if an opportunity for a big play presents itself...to identify and take advantage. And Josh played some of the best ball of his career down the stretch last year doing just that.

 

Agree with the first part of that, but Allen's metrics got notably worse last season under Brady.  That's not debatable.  

 

His completion percentage, which should have gone up given how McBrady used him, decreased significantly.  His TD production also plummeted.  

 

If that pace continues for this season, he'd finish with about 4,100 passing yards and 24 passing TDs, which would be his worst showing since before he became good, since 2019 essentially when many were calling for the team to move on from him to add some perspective.  

 

His rating was worse, substantially worse, than it's been since 2019.  85.5, which on the season would have ranked 23rd, just behind Justin Fields and ahead of absolutely no one of consequence.  

 

All those ranting about how we improved under Brady are hallucinating.  But we enjoy our hallucinations though. 

 

In short, the reality is that McBrady are moving him in the opposite direction from where he should be going.  

 

 

Edited April 29 by PBF81

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You have a QB that's a Maserati. He's built for bombs away. But instead of building your offense for that, you build it for plodding, 10 yards at a time max, 10 minute drive offense. So I ask, what is the point?

 

What's the point of having a guy who's designed by nature to bomb the football deep and whose weakness is dink and dunk stuck in an offensive scheme that is built to do just that?

 

Why not offload him for someone who's better suited for that kind of thing if you refuse to play to his strengths? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.

 

How has "bombs away" worked for the mighty Fishies?   According to one analyst, they may be the fastest team ever after adding more offensive speed in the draft.   They certainly are spectacular when they stomp on bottom feeder defenses but when they run into a team with a good defense, they crash and burn because when Ds stop their WRs, they don't have many real answers.

 

I want the Bills to be able to move the ball however they want to move it no matter what the opponent's defense or the weather does.   Winning football games is much more important to me than having Allen set passing records.  My guess is that that's Allen POV, too.  He doesn't like to lose.

[JerseyBills]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Mahomes had to adjust his game for similar reasons. 2 high safeties. Allen still forces it at times.

ya. Allen is so lethal in intermediate game. I'm sure everyone agrees, it could be 3rd and 20 and we're all anticipating a 1st down..

Chiefs O kills it with the screens and passes close to L.O.S, expect Brady to incorporate more of that, easy yards

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I only think that was true under Dorsey. Dorsey's O was very vanilla. Very simple. Put a very high tariff on execution. Daboll's offense was creative and we saw way more creativity when Brady took over. I'm not telling you it is Shanahan or Reid, but it is plenty creative enough. And that was just Brady adding wrinkles to Dorsey's offense. I'll be interested to see what we come out with when he has had an offseason to design it. 

 

It will be interesting, and in fairness Brady deserves a full preseason to prep, but to my recurring point, we have zero proven offensive creative experience in this team's staff.  None.  It's all about the D under McD.  ... and McD, ... perfect name.  

 

Look at my post above.  It's relevance can be debated, but not the facts.  

 

 

[JerseyBills]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

How has "bombs away" worked for the mighty Fishies?   According to one analyst, they may be the fastest team ever after adding more offensive speed in the draft.   They certainly are spectacular when they stomp on bottom feeder defenses but when they run into a team with a good defense, they crash and burn because when Ds stop their WRs, they don't have many real answers.

 

I want the Bills to be able to move the ball however they want to move it no matter what the opponent's defense or the weather does.   Winning football games is much more important to me than having Allen set passing records.  My guess is that that's Allen POV, too.  He doesn't like to lose.

They struggle vs intelligent defenses imo. Intelligent teams seem to figure them out pretty early on

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

In fairness if you are going to build a bombs away offense you need Josh's deep ball to improve massively on where it was for most of 2023.

 

I do agree though, we are an offense at the moment that is kind of forced to play small ball by our personnel. 

 

Is the offense "forced to play small ball" or is that what they want to play?    

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

McD does this to protect his D. Remember the Bengals game last year when they come out in the no huddle and the easily walked down the field? After McDs D gave up its second TD he slowed the offense down so it wouldn’t become a shootout.

All about protecting his D. 

 

Is protecting the D a bad thing?    Playing D against teams that can make long scoring drives with regularity can wear a defense down if their own offense can't stay on the field long enough to give the defense a breather.   That's the problem with a quick strike offense -- the defense is always on the field.

[djp14150]

Something people seem to forget in throwing a ball 40+ yards doen thr field.  How long does it take for the ball to go from release to re river.  Given that time,how far can the deep safety need to be away from ball catch point yo grt therr at the same time?

 

deep balls are just not as simple as you might think,  with many defenses playing a defense to prevent. As others have said, you may see these occur once a game excluding end of half/ game Hail Mary throws. These go routes are run to control safeties on underneath routes or you isolate a defender on deciding who to bite 

[harmonkillebrew]

31 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think the emphasis on offense shifted to keeping the opposing team's offense off the field for as much of the game as possible - the Philadelphia Eagles strategy.  The run sets up the pass.  

 

With that strategy, you need possession receivers to get the difficult 3rd and 8s, not necessarily track stars for the 50-yard bombs.

 

Keep the defense rested to defend against the expected Burrow/Mahomes shenanigans in the 4th quarter.

McD always trying to protect his fragile D, keep them off the field, while the Offense has slow, excruciating drives that result in a missed FG

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

It will be interesting, and in fairness Brady deserves a full preseason to prep, but to my recurring point, we have zero proven offensive creative experience in this team's staff.  None.  It's all about the D under McD.  ... and McD, ... perfect name.  

 

Look at my post above.  It's relevance can be debated, but not the facts.  

 

 

 

The problem with simply crunching the numbers under each of the coaches is that I think in terms of play as a Quarterback 2023 was Josh's worst season since he broke out in 2020. Now I don't put all of that on Josh but I do out a fair amount of it on Josh. Josh has to play better and certainly more consistently. We gave him the best oline he has had and he still made too many bad decisions at times. I don't think the talent around him helped. The coaching change can't have been easy. But I think we need Josh to be better first and foremost. Brady hopefully can help that. But I will tell you when I watched the all22 of his offense vs Dorsey's I am in no doubt who I'd rather have as OC. 

20 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Is the offense "forced to play small ball" or is that what they want to play?    

 

I think it is what the personnel they have built is best suited to. So maybe it is by design. But if so that's an odd build choice IMO. 

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The problem with simply crunching the numbers under each of the coaches is that I think in terms of play as a Quarterback 2023 was Josh's worst season since he broke out in 2020. Now I don't put all of that on Josh but I do out a fair amount of it on Josh. Josh has to play better and certainly more consistently. We gave him the best oline he has had and he still made too many bad decisions at times. I don't think the talent around him helped. The coaching change can't have been easy. But I think we need Josh to be better first and foremost. Brady hopefully can help that. But I will tell you when I watched the all22 of his offense vs Dorsey's I am in no doubt who I'd rather have as OC. 

 

I think it is what the personnel they have built is best suited to. So maybe it is by design. But if so that's an odd build choice IMO. 

Brady struck me as a very good OC last year--leagues beyond Dorsey in terms of game-to-game adaptation and what I call responsible creativity. I think we may have a really good one. He was great at LSU and had a terrible roster in Carolina. Plus he trained under Sean Payton, who annoys me but who is also an amazing offensive coach. I mean, just look at this roster in 2021, the year he was fired: DJ Moore and nothing else. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2021.htm

 

Note that after he was fired on December 5, they went 0-5 the rest of the way. It's kinda like the mirror image of what happened to the Bills after they fired Dorsey and handed the keys to Brady.

 

In his final game as coordinator for Carolina, the corpse of Cam Newton was 5-21 for 92 yards and two INTs before being replaced by PJ Walker. And the coordinator takes the fall. Sheesh. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202111280mia.htm

Edited April 29 by dave mcbride

[BuffaloBillyG]

29 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Agree with the first part of that, but Allen's metrics got notably worse last season under Brady.  That's not debatable.  

 

His completion percentage, which should have gone up given how McBrady used him, decreased significantly.  His TD production also plummeted.  

 

If that pace continues for this season, he'd finish with about 4,100 passing yards and 24 passing TDs, which would be his worst showing since before he became good, since 2019 essentially when many were calling for the team to move on from him to add some perspective.  

 

His rating was worse, substantially worse, than it's been since 2019.  85.5, which on the season would have ranked 23rd, just behind Justin Fields and ahead of absolutely no one of consequence.  

 

All those ranting about how we improved under Brady are hallucinating.  But we enjoy our hallucinations though. 

 

In short, the reality is that McBrady are moving him in the opposite direction from where he should be going.  

 

 

You mean his stats went down later in the season as weather worsened, his #1 receiver disappeared and his #2 WR ended up not playing due to injury? Shocking. 

 

His TD passing numbers went down (yet he still ran for a bunch...but we shall discount that because....reasons). Buffalo also faced a Dallas defense that required Josh to basically not have anything as far as stats. But let's discount that as well.

 

Numbers are great but they never tell the whole story. Numbers often scratch the surface of what's happening. It's the "why" the numbers are what they are that add context and meaning. The only number you offer is his "rating" which I find a poor way to evaluate a QB in this era. The top 5 QBs last year in rating were Purdy, Prescott, Tua, Lamar and Stroud. Unless you think those are the best 5 QBs in the NFL...it says something for how the rating system works, doesn't it?

 

Metrics are nice and there is absolutely a place for them when reviewing a player. But it's part of the puzzle. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

"Transitioning."

 

They're turning over the roster to get younger & cheaper while building a 2nd group for Allen to lead. It looks like a multi year process, given that they drafted 10 but we're willing to trade back & have 10 more next year. Judging by what they drafted, they wanted solid foundational leadership pieces this year, not necessarily superstars, just solid good football players. It looks like they won't go all in this year, are willing to take a step back this year if necessary (though they'll still fight to compete) so they have the money & picks to really add some pieces next year. At least that's what I take from their moves & Beane's presser.

 

Edited April 29 by Donuts and Doritos

[gonzo1105]

The Philosophy of this team has always been the same. 
 

Blue Collar players who work hard and work as a team instead of worrying about individual status. Good character guys who fit a locker room. Even the Maserati is from a middle of nowhere Cali town where he grew up on a farm and was non recruited 

[NewEra]

The draft brings out the worst in many

[BananaB]

24 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Is protecting the D a bad thing?    Playing D against teams that can make long scoring drives with regularity can wear a defense down if their own offense can't stay on the field long enough to give the defense a breather.   That's the problem with a quick strike offense -- the defense is always on the field.

With  the majority of the resources going to D over the years this should not be a problem. Especially when you have a defensive minded coach.