I have a problem with Cooper Dejean type players

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Maybe the guy becomes great…

 

but IMO it would be a horrific use of a premium draft pick.

 

I would much rather try to sign Justin Simmons this summer or draft a Safety in Round 4 or 5 that can compete
 

or if you project him as a corner…we are OK there for this season.  

Do I think he’d be good in this defense? Sure. Does the pick move the needle at all for our record? Not really. 
 

as you say, we could look at a guy like Thomas or Mitchell plus Simmons… or for same investment dejean plus Tyler Boyd? 
 

seems easy to me. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he is a zone corner and will be a good one. I would not move him to safety personally. 

 

As for the wary of hybrids..... Kyle Dugger, Kyle Hamilton, Tyran Mathieu - all hybrids in college who have been good to excellent in the NFL. 

None of these guys were outside corners in college it's easier to make transition to safety from slot corner or from safety to LB . But I'll give u credit they were hybrid types but they played only one position on the NFL level except for Hamilton he plays LB , Safety and Slot . 

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, SWATeam said:

This is one of the handful of defensive players I'd be fine with being our 1st round pick.  He'd be a star in our scheme and an elite return man.

 

 

Yup, this is what I think. He was excellent in college. That's the reason he's ranked so high. And McDermott loves guys with positional flexibility and uses them really well in his scheme to cross up offenses and make the D less predictable.

 

But I also think that if he's the clear BPA at #28 and we're still there, we might trade back to try to produce a situation where a receiver or other position of need is the BPA at the new draft spot six to fifteen or so spots further back.

 

If there are two or more guys left on the same draft tier at #28, they'll choose the one at a position of greater need.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

None of these guys were outside corners in college it's easier to make transition to safety from slot corner or from safety to LB . But I'll give u credit they were hybrid types but they played only one position on the NFL level except for Hamilton he plays LB , Safety and Slot . 

 

Dugger hasn't played one posititon in the league either. He has also been a slot, safety, LB hybrid. I take the point on Mathieu he has just been a safety in the NFL. 

 

Also while in 2023 DeJean was primarily an outside corner for Iowa he played a lot of slot and a lot of box safety in 2022. This is not as simple a case as you make it sound of a guy that has been stuck out on the boundary for 3 years in college suddenly wanting to play all over in the pros. 

[CSBill]

18 hours ago, Low Positive said:

You are probably joking, but the last white CB to start a game was Sehorn in 2003.

 

Serious question: Is that true?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

I'm starting to want this dude in Round 1 just because of the divisive discourse that will ensue

 

Some men want to watch the world burn

 

[Low Positive]

4 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

Serious question: Is that true?

Yes, it is. I'm not going to speculate as to why because that conservation could get heated and go off the rails very quickly, but it is a fact.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Yes, it is. I'm not going to speculate as to why because that conservation could get heated and go off the rails very quickly, but it is a fact.

 

It's not true. It was 2003, you are right about that, but it is a common misconception that it was Sehorn. It was someone who played for either the Benglas or the Browns. Forget which. 

[GunnerBill]

On 4/23/2024 at 5:34 PM, Brandon said:

 

No,  I'm not joking at all.  I don't think most NFL teams are going to be guilty of it,  but outside of that,  a lot of people are going to take one look at a white guy playing CB in college and immediately assume that he should move to safety in the NFL.   Maybe if he'd posted some pedestrian numbers at his pro day.  Instead,  it was borderline freakish,  especially for a guy one month clear off a broken leg.  

 

Yea he is a freak. 

[1ManRaid]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:32 AM, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but these guys never pan out especially when drafted in first 2 rds where pressure is on them to contribute right away. 

 

I've seen Corners move to safety as vets and still play on a high level or even mid to late Rd pks like Poyer and Hyde make the transition and become studs but please if anyone here knows of a player that went high in the draft and was able to either move from corner to safety or vis versa and do it at a high level right away. We just recently seen Simmons get drafted high and he was a stud at Clemson and moving to safety derailed his career and he played that postion in college as well as corner and Lber these hybrid tweener types never pan out drafted high the ones that do or the lower Rd pks that get the time and patience from the coaches to make that full transition and if your thinking about flat out using Dejean like in college as a hybrid player on the NFL level that never works as well. So if anyone remembers someone that actually made this transition please add to the chat, thanks. 

Cooper will not be a good corner in the NFL as well he has tight hips and gets burned by lower level players in the big ten . I realize he's made some splash plays on tape but thats not gonna help him on the NFL level where u see professionals on a daily basis in practice and at 100% on Sundays. 

 

Has Byrd been wiped from everyone's memories or something?  2nd round pick for us, led the league in INTs as a rookie free safety after playing CB in college.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

3 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Has Byrd been wiped from everyone's memories or something?  2nd round pick for us, led the league in INTs as a rookie free safety after playing CB in college.

There was a couple recent examples brought by Gunner but for people to need to go back this far is a classic example of why the Bills shouldn't draft Dejean. 

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Yes, it is. I'm not going to speculate as to why because that conservation could get heated and go off the rails very quickly, but it is a fact.

A white corner was also drafted last year... 

 

It has nothing to do with race... It has to do with how skill sets work better for certain positions and players have been built for college and NFL 

 

There are lots of talented white football players.. running backs wide receivers safeties lineman QBs... Kids who are being groomed to play these positions from day one... There are just less white kids playing cornerback than safety or WR or QB

 

You need the right body type and athletic profile for a corner in college or NFL... It's a very rare athletic profile ... And there are white cornerbacks in college... A white corner was also drafted last year

 

But to make it simple... Most NFL players have been playing since they were 8 years old... Years of practice and grooming... Talk to a football coach who has a son.. From a child.. they were raised to be a quarterback.. or wide receiver... Or a left tackle or linebacker 

 

My friend's father was a division one tackle at Maryland.. raised his kid to be a left tackle since he could walk... Calisthenics weight training bulking up early... My friend wound up at 6'8-320 lbs 3-year division 1 starter with a cup of tea in the NFL 

 

he was bred to play football... There's not a lot of White corners being bred from day 1... They are getting groomed at other positions

 

 

15 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Has Byrd been wiped from everyone's memories or something?  2nd round pick for us, led the league in INTs as a rookie free safety after playing CB in college.

Byrd was your classic zone college corner, with amazing instincts and acceleration 

 

But won't be able to run with NFL wide receivers at corner 

 

He was my number one free safety on the board that year

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

So... is he not a corner?  

[Low Positive]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's not true. It was 2003, you are right about that, but it is a common misconception that it was Sehorn. It was someone who played for either the Benglas or the Browns. Forget which. 

Now you got me looking. I just looked at the Browns and Bengals 2003 rosters and they had no white CBs that started a game while Sehorn started 3 games for the Rams in 2003. I'm an academic librarian by trade and I am treating this like a reference question from a grad student. I will find this information.

[34-78-83]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaesKe20/gamelog/2003/

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

There was a couple recent examples brought by Gunner but for people to need to go back this far is a classic example of why the Bills shouldn't draft Dejean. 

 

He was still in the league less than a decade ago (heck, he's still only 37, younger than me), so thats hardly ancient history.  I'm not advocating for Dejean at all, but the assertion that there aren't any in memory is false.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaesKe20/gamelog/2003/

That's the guy!

[Reks Ryan]

On 4/23/2024 at 12:26 PM, Low Positive said:

You are probably joking, but the last white CB to start a game was Sehorn in 2003.

That's amazing that it's been 21 years with 32 teams in the league.    If there are some talented white CBs coming out of HS, I bet a lot of those guys automatically try to make it as a WR or switch to safety when they get to college. 

 

Last year Riley Moss, also out of Iowa, was rated as potential starting CB and got drafted by Denver.  Don't remember hearing about him after the draft, and it looks like he only got in a few games as part time player late in the season. Not sure if he had an injury?

[stuvian]

 

[Billzgobowlin]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:32 AM, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but these guys never pan out especially when drafted in first 2 rds where pressure is on them to contribute right away. 

 

I've seen Corners move to safety as vets and still play on a high level or even mid to late Rd pks like Poyer and Hyde make the transition and become studs but please if anyone here knows of a player that went high in the draft and was able to either move from corner to safety or vis versa and do it at a high level right away. We just recently seen Simmons get drafted high and he was a stud at Clemson and moving to safety derailed his career and he played that postion in college as well as corner and Lber these hybrid tweener types never pan out drafted high the ones that do or the lower Rd pks that get the time and patience from the coaches to make that full transition and if your thinking about flat out using Dejean like in college as a hybrid player on the NFL level that never works as well. So if anyone remembers someone that actually made this transition please add to the chat, thanks. 

Cooper will not be a good corner in the NFL as well he has tight hips and gets burned by lower level players in the big ten . I realize he's made some splash plays on tape but thats not gonna help him on the NFL level where u see professionals on a daily basis in practice and at 100% on Sundays. 

I think if he hadn't had concussion symptoms Aaron Williams had a good albeit short career moving to safety.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

28 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I think if he hadn't had concussion symptoms Aaron Williams had a good albeit short career moving to safety.  

Yeah that was sad he was becoming a bonafide player. My point to this topic was players that come into the league picked high in the draft 1st Rd players usually don't pan out when they have to switch positions right away. I was talking about these Hybrid tweener types . Especially outside corners making transition to safety in particular haven't been very successful. Slot corners are usually the players making a successful transition but that's because a slot corner has basically the same responsibility as safeties. 

 

If your telling me draft Cooper and play him as a outside corner his natural position that's fine with me but to move him to a new spot as a first Rd pk is too much projection for me and rather take a player later in the draft to make such a move. Players drafted between Rds 4-7 usually make this move more naturally because they have the time to adjust and learn there new position with no pressure of being a 1st Rd pk that needs to showcase his skills right away. In Cooper case some have said he's a good to great Zone corner and if that's the case I still don't want him because zone corners are like running backs in a way u kind them all threw out the draft u hardly see Zone Only corners being drafted high in the draft.