Old Coot Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Wall Street Journal had an interesting article on the use of condensed formations which it attributed to Mike Shanahan when he coached the Broncos. His son Kyle Shanahan uses them extensively with the 49ers. I have noticed that the Bills occasionally used condensed formations last year. A condensed formation is the opposite of a spread formation. Instead of spreading the O across the field, the WRs are in close to the line and even the OL line splits may be reduced. The condensed formations are said to have two advantages: 1. The open up the middle for passing. How so? The D needs to be concerned about all the open space toward the sidelines which the WRs and RBs have to operate and that opens up the middle to in breaking routes. 2. A spread formation likely signls pass but the condensed formation could be run or pass. I noticed that the Bills last year seemed to have more success running up the middle from a condensed formation. What are your thoughts? 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 9 hours ago, Old Coot said: Wall Street Journal had an interesting article on the use of condensed formations which it attributed to Mike Shanahan when he coached the Broncos. His son Kyle Shanahan uses them extensively with the 49ers. I have noticed that the Bills occasionally used condensed formations last year. A condensed formation is the opposite of a spread formation. Instead of spreading the O across the field, the WRs are in close to the line and even the OL line splits may be reduced. The condensed formations are said to have two advantages: 1. The open up the middle for passing. How so? The D needs to be concerned about all the open space toward the sidelines which the WRs and RBs have to operate and that opens up the middle to in breaking routes. 2. A spread formation likely signls pass but the condensed formation could be run or pass. I noticed that the Bills last year seemed to have more success running up the middle from a condensed formation. What are your thoughts? the condensed formations we ran seemed related to our tendencies and history trying to force 20 personnel. i think we stuck to known formations instead of trying to rewrite the playbook. we used the same formations with new wrinkles. going forward i think brady needs to see what he has on paper. not concern running every play or every first down. get creative and look at putting the passing schemes that suit his players and create the mismatches that his qb can thrive on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Basically, a good and innovative idea. The reality of it is the Bills will be called for having an illegal formation. 🤔🤨😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Some good stuff on condensed formations (with explanations, diagrams, video explanations, and so forth) at the links below. https://www.americanfootballmonthly.com/Subaccess/articles.php?category=&article_id=5647&output=article https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/film-study/2019/02/102363/film-study-by-incorporating-more-bunch-and-compressed-formations-ohio-states-offense-opened-up-in-2019 https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/6/18/17419694/building-the-offense-for-patrick-mahomes-condensed-formations 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Maybe I am crazy but I remember Romo talking about how the Bills were using them in the Chiefs game. In theory, I think it makes the most sense for our current personnel, even if we go out and draft a stud WR to be our #2. In my mind, the three most dynamic weapons Josh had last year were Shakir, Kincaid and Cook. If two out of your three are RB and TE, condensed formation lets defenses pick their poison and then you can motion Kincaid or Cook to get an advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 it's all quite cyclical, and defenses always catch up, so you really have to be able to do a few things to be a killer O. this is why i think we are going to draft (hopefully later) a real bruising power back. we are going to face nickle d's who want to crowd and body up on the wrs (frankly, that's the way you play to stop the bills), and having to tackle a big powerful ball carrier a bunch of times hits differently late in the 4th quarter. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Basically, a good and innovative idea. The reality of it is the Bills will be called for having an illegal formation. 🤔🤨😁 Hochuli agrees 😁 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Not a lot to add here, especially because it's true that this all keeps evolving. However, I'll add one item. There was a thread, maybe last week, about how Fangio created the defense that everyone runs now that's so effective at stopping the deep balls, essentially splitting the field down the middle and running two independent zones or man concepts on either side. The thread linked to some good analysis of those points. On of the videos was about Reid countered by running a lot of formations that put four receivers, instead of three line up in one of the two halves. That is, Fangio's defense works well when the receivers are split 3-2 to one side or the other, but it can be attacked by splitting the receivers 4-1. (Note that the receivers include the tight ends and the backs, some of whom may be lined up in the backfield, but who by virtue of where they are lined up are still poised to attack one side of the field or the other.) So, worked pretty well for Reid (and worked very well against the Bills). And then Reid started using 4-1 condensed formations, with a cluster of receivers just off the end of the line to one side or another. And other teams, including the Bills, have been copying that approach. The point is, those videos about Fangio and Reid demonstrate the power of the condensed formation, on running plays to the edge where three or four receivers are clustered as well as on passing plays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Kadarius Toney asks that you slow down and start again from the beginning 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Old Coot's thread about Analysys of Defenses is where the other videos were linked. Jan 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 4 hours ago, boyst said: 13 hours ago, Old Coot said: the condensed formations we ran seemed related to our tendencies and history trying to force 20 personnel Confused here. How often did we run 2 RBs and 0 TE formation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 24 minutes ago, freddyjj said: Confused here. How often did we run 2 RBs and 0 TE formation? 12 formation. my bad. haha no idea how bad that brain fart happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I lean towards evaporated instead of condensed. Depends on the recipe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 My favorite condensed formation is cumulonimbus, but lenticular (which sometimes gets reported as a UFO) is a close second. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 That formation makes you vulnerable to blitzes. It’s easy for the defense to disguise where the extra rusher is coming from since the CBs are lined up closer to the QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 A seal here & a seal there & run the ball thru the alley--- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 28 minutes ago, Billl said: That formation makes you vulnerable to blitzes. It’s easy for the defense to disguise where the extra rusher is coming from since the CBs are lined up closer to the QB. It's also easier for the QB to make reads on outside routes with so much less congestion and open space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mikie2times said: It's also easier for the QB to make reads on outside routes with so much less congestion and open space. True, but I think the relative advantages favor a defense that has DBs who can rush the passer and a creative DC. Edited February 8 by Billl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 23 hours ago, boyst said: the condensed formations we ran seemed related to our tendencies and history trying to force 20 personnel. i think we stuck to known formations instead of trying to rewrite the playbook. we used the same formations with new wrinkles. going forward i think brady needs to see what he has on paper. not concern running every play or every first down. get creative and look at putting the passing schemes that suit his players and create the mismatches that his qb can thrive on. True i think Brady will put his stamp on the Offense & did in some ways this year & if the run game finally isn't broke don't try to fix it ! This last season was the first since Shady was here that the Bills had a 1k yd back & that can't hurt to have in your box of plays . Edited February 8 by T master 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/7/2024 at 9:12 AM, colin said: it's all quite cyclical, and defenses always catch up, so you really have to be able to do a few things to be a killer O. this is why i think we are going to draft (hopefully later) a real bruising power back. we are going to face nickle d's who want to crowd and body up on the wrs (frankly, that's the way you play to stop the bills), and having to tackle a big powerful ball carrier a bunch of times hits differently late in the 4th quarter. there’s also the reality that both a spread and condensed can be correct approaches for the same personnel, in the same era, etc…. Sometimes it’s just two different ways that are both good if you have solid players and good play calling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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