Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Who has taken the jump? I've heard great success stories with people selling power back to the grid. And I've heard this:https://time.com/6317339/rooftop-solar-power-failure/ A guy who I trust quoted me around $20000 for a field of panels to run a generator. Wouldn't power the entire house. Not looking likely for me now but I'm interested in opinions/experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 It looks like crap in our area. Farmers selling 20-50 acres and there’s rows and rows of solar panels that will deteriorate over 10 years, be abandoned by the installation companies, pollute our land, with little benefit to the community. But hey…the company that installed them was given millions in benefits. Who cares where they leave the junk when it’s obsolete. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 30, 2023 Author Share Posted September 30, 2023 28 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: It looks like crap in our area. Farmers selling 20-50 acres and there’s rows and rows of solar panels that will deteriorate over 10 years, be abandoned by the installation companies, pollute our land, with little benefit to the community. But hey…the company that installed them was given millions in benefits. Who cares where they leave the junk when it’s obsolete. I think we'll see better tech sometime but yeah.....I don't think it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 The latest developments may have a huge impact on efficiency. Using a compound called perovskite, which allows capture of more of the light spectrum, companies are reporting 30% or more efficiency. It was thought that 29% was about the limit, and most are about 23. Still some testing required to test durability of these panels, as they seem to have a shorter lifespan, but the development is quite promising. Could be available in a couple years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 9 hours ago, BringBackFergy said: It looks like crap in our area. Farmers selling 20-50 acres and there’s rows and rows of solar panels that will deteriorate over 10 years, be abandoned by the installation companies, pollute our land, with little benefit to the community. But hey…the company that installed them was given millions in benefits. Who cares where they leave the junk when it’s obsolete. Solar panels are warrantied for 20 years and almost always last much longer. After 20 years, they lose about 10% of their generating capacity, but they still generate electricity. Older panels from utility-scale farms are often resold at a discount and replaced with new panels. And there are significant efforts to make the newer panels recyclable. No power company is going to abandon their investment and leave a solar array to rot. As for pollution, the carbon payback period for solar panels is around 2-4 years, depending on the power source they're replacing, and the energy payback period is 1-3 years depending on the amount of sunlight they get. And yes, we know they don't produce much on cloudy days (although they do produce some), but they're really good on sunny days when people are running their AC. And energy storage smooths out the "duck curve" - the gap between supply and demand. Whether it's worth it to put them on your house really depends. A lot of people go with a power purchase agreement (PPA), where the company installs the equipment at no cost to the consumer, and the consumer pays the company only for the power that the array generates. That's a win-win for the consumer, as there's no initial investment and they save some money on their energy bills. And it's a win-win for the company because they own the equipment, so they get the tax credit and other incentives, and they get a steady stream of income by selling the power to the consumer. To purchase a system, the payback period is 5-15 years, depending on the regional electricity rate. Here in the Midwest, where our power is mainly nuclear and wind, our electric rate is dirt cheap; the payback period for us would be about 15 years. On the other hand, a friend who lives in NH pays around $0.23/kWh, so for him, a solar array would pay for itself in around 5 years. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 30, 2023 Author Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, WhoTom said: Solar panels are warrantied for 20 years and almost always last much longer. After 20 years, they lose about 10% of their generating capacity, but they still generate electricity. Older panels from utility-scale farms are often resold at a discount and replaced with new panels. And there are significant efforts to make the newer panels recyclable. No power company is going to abandon their investment and leave a solar array to rot. As for pollution, the carbon payback period for solar panels is around 2-4 years, depending on the power source they're replacing, and the energy payback period is 1-3 years depending on the amount of sunlight they get. And yes, we know they don't produce much on cloudy days (although they do produce some), but they're really good on sunny days when people are running their AC. And energy storage smooths out the "duck curve" - the gap between supply and demand. Whether it's worth it to put them on your house really depends. A lot of people go with a power purchase agreement (PPA), where the company installs the equipment at no cost to the consumer, and the consumer pays the company only for the power that the array generates. That's a win-win for the consumer, as there's no initial investment and they save some money on their energy bills. And it's a win-win for the company because they own the equipment, so they get the tax credit and other incentives, and they get a steady stream of income by selling the power to the consumer. To purchase a system, the payback period is 5-15 years, depending on the regional electricity rate. Here in the Midwest, where our power is mainly nuclear and wind, our electric rate is dirt cheap; the payback period for us would be about 15 years. On the other hand, a friend who lives in NH pays around $0.23/kWh, so for him, a solar array would pay for itself in around 5 years. Thank you. obviously lots of knowledge. Do you think my project makes sense? I guess I could sell the electricity if not in use. We live in the woods but the array would be on an open hillside (unfortunately N facing). Would run a line up to the house. Edited September 30, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 16 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Who has taken the jump? I've heard great success stories with people selling power back to the grid. And I've heard this:https://time.com/6317339/rooftop-solar-power-failure/ A guy who I trust quoted me around $20000 for a field of panels to run a generator. Wouldn't power the entire house. Not looking likely for me now but I'm interested in opinions/experiences. Not sure where you live but state tax credit may be available for solar panel installation. They were for me (VA). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 they work great helps to live where theres a lot of sun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 30, 2023 Author Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Mr Info said: Not sure where you live but state tax credit may be available for solar panel installation. They were for me (VA). yup. can take credit for 2 or 3 years after installation. So I think with all the credits brings it down to $14000. Is this cost about right in you experience? Love the idea of a generator but already have a propane tank and it's way cheaper in the short run, to use that to power one. Edited September 30, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 14 hours ago, mead107 said: Don’t work on cloudy and snowy days. Just get bigger batteries to store it in when it is sunny. And snow reflects the most light, more than sand. Just get out there and clear the panel. Winter can be a very sunny season in some parts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 We grew up in a house where the poles didn't run far enough so our house was 100% PV Generator was a must for bad weather (we had propane) and couldn't run many of the appliances to save electricity, batteries for storage when it's very sunny...if you have a good relationship we the guy who services them (ours was our neighbor) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 Just now, GoBills808 said: We grew up in a house where the poles didn't run far enough so our house was 100% PV Generator was a must for bad weather (we had propane) and couldn't run many of the appliances to save electricity, batteries for storage when it's very sunny...if you have a good relationship we the guy who services them (ours was our neighbor) My father had a solar panel put on the house back in 1980s. To just boost extra heat in winter. Pretty primitive. YET... Still working today. Takes edge off heating bill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 41 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: they work great helps to live where theres a lot of sun How old are they? How long are they expected to last? There was an area in Venice, FL where somebody was very successful selling solar panels many decades ago. Virtually zero were actually functioning when I was working that area. I’m sure each generation has gotten better and better, but those old ones were more likely to make your roof leak than help your utility bills. I hope they keep improving the technology because it does seem like a wasted opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Augie said: How old are they? How long are they expected to last? There was an area in Venice, FL where somebody was very successful selling solar panels many decades ago. Virtually zero were actually functioning when I was working that area. I’m sure each generation has gotten better and better, but those old ones were more likely to make your roof leak than help your utility bills. I hope they keep improving the technology because it does seem like a wasted opportunity. This was 30years ago, the panel tech has definitely improved but it's not magic or anything, it worked then and it works now Also we had dedicated panels in the backyard on a moveable array in addition to the hot water panels on the roof 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Thank you. obviously lots of knowledge. Do you think my project makes sense? I guess I could sell the electricity if not in use. We live in the woods but the array would be on an open hillside (unfortunately N facing). Would run a line up to the house. I wrote this for my wife's blog a few years ago. It may answer some of your questions. https://www.theselfsufficienthomeacre.com/2014/09/solar-electricity-at-home.html (I wrote it in 2014 and updated it last year.) Edited September 30, 2023 by WhoTom 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 30, 2023 Author Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, WhoTom said: I wrote this for my wife's blog a few years ago. It may answer some of your questions. https://www.theselfsufficienthomeacre.com/2014/09/solar-electricity-at-home.html excellent. 10 years would be fine for recoup. 30 not so much cuz I doubt will be in this house (or maybe anywhere on earth). Do panels increase a homes value? I'm also thinking those payback periods are for panels that would be used continuously as a power source. There's a limit to storage, correct? I will say the contractor, I guy I've known for years, wasn't greatly surprised when I told him "I'll think about it. Thanks." Edited September 30, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: excellent. 10 years would be fine for recoup. 30 not so much cuz I doubt will be in this house (or maybe anywhere on earth). Do panels increase a homes value? I'm also thinking those payback periods are for panels that would be used continuously as a power source. There's a limit to storage, correct? I will say the contractor, I guy I've known for years, wasn't greatly surprised when I told him "I'll think about it. Thanks." Solar's impact on a home's value depends on the buyer's perception. In general, though, it does increase the resale value. https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/solar/do-solar-panels-increase-home-value The payback period is based on local conditions. As for the limit on storage, the only limit is how much you can afford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) I guess there is this. Kinda like at the lock & dam when we switched to LEDs from vapor light... The savings were supposed to be astronomical! Yet... It seems like those bulbs are burning out faster than expected. NOTE: We did retrofit them into 60 year old light standards, etc... https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power Summary. Solar energy is a rapidly growing market, which should be good news for the environment. Unfortunately there’s a catch. The replacement rate of solar panels is faster than expected and given the current very high recycling costs, there’s a real danger that all used panels will go straight to landfill (along with equally hard-to-recycle wind turbines). Regulators and industry players need to start improving the economics and scale of recycling capabilities before the avalanche of solar panels hits. Edited September 30, 2023 by ExiledInIllinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Summary. Solar energy is a rapidly growing market, which should be good news for the environment. Unfortunately there’s a catch. The replacement rate of solar panels is faster than expected and given the current very high recycling costs, there’s a real danger that all used panels will go straight to landfill (along with equally hard-to-recycle wind turbines). Regulators and industry players need to start improving the economics and scale of recycling capabilities before the avalanche of solar panels hits. That's a problem, no doubt, but one that's being addressed in a multitude of ways. I covered the topic a few years ago: https://www.engineering.com/story/closing-the-loop-on-solar-panel-recycling 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 On 9/29/2023 at 10:32 PM, BringBackFergy said: It looks like crap in our area. Farmers selling 20-50 acres and there’s rows and rows of solar panels that will deteriorate over 10 years, be abandoned by the installation companies, pollute our land, with little benefit to the community. But hey…the company that installed them was given millions in benefits. Who cares where they leave the junk when it’s obsolete. Maybe county needs to require a deposit like some do with bottles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 There are several major items that impact the fundamentals of solar: 1) most important how much sun do you get? If you live in Phoenix much better idea then Buffalo. 2) what is the payout vs cost, the individual power companies payouts vary greatly depending on area 3) make sure the company doing installing is an approved vendor of the panels they are doing. If Tesla make sure Tesla knows who they are, and check their name with power company. I also recommend not doing business with an unknown company because installation not done right can mean roof leaks or inefficient unit use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 They're ugly as ***** I would never put solar panels on a house that I own and take pride in. God awful looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 38 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: They're ugly as ***** I would never put solar panels on a house that I own and take pride in. God awful looking. I guess it depends on the house. For me the south facing side of my roof points to my backyard. My backyard abuts common space and woods so nobody would ever see them, including me. I don't often walk out into the woods to gaze back at my own house. The Tesla roofs look nice but I trust Tesla about as far as I can throw Elon so there's that... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 4 hours ago, That's No Moon said: I guess it depends on the house. For me the south facing side of my roof points to my backyard. My backyard abuts common space and woods so nobody would ever see them, including me. I don't often walk out into the woods to gaze back at my own house. The Tesla roofs look nice but I trust Tesla about as far as I can throw Elon so there's that... Mine would be next to my driveway. Basically in a meadow. I think they would distract from the meadow, nature vibe which I enjoy. That said, it seems natural to use the sun's energy. I'm gonna price a propane generator and decide. If the world devolves into chaos, there won't be propane but there won't be much of anything. Got lots of firewood, game and a garden. Those will have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 just released 6 hours ago- new Slift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Pete said: just released 6 hours ago- new Slift! Are these songs about solar panels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 12 hours ago, WhoTom said: Are these songs about solar panels? I think they are for fans who have their heads cooked like solar panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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