Vikings Chad Greenway takes shot at Leslie Frazier defense

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Against a 3rd string QB. This should be expected. 

 

Sure. Did we play 3rd string QBs all season? 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Defense in today's NFL is so difficult.  People say be aggressive.  But elite QBs statistically thrive against the blitz. We would like nothing better than opposing tema to blitz Josh. Elite QBs make big plays vs the blitz. 

The challenge is always can you make enough big plays on defense or do you opt to keep everything in front of you and hope opponent makes a mistake such as a penalty or dropped ball. 

The fan in us says apply the pressure. 

The analytics probably say rush 4 and drop 7 wins most of the time. 

 

In the end, we just need Allen to outscore them.  That doesn't mean be foolish and go for it on every fourth down or stop kicking FGs. It means do everything you can to make Josh's job easy and get the ball in the hands of Diggs, Knox, and Kincaid early and often.

[Rockinon]

The Bills will Blitz only occasionally. The reason they don't do it more is because it leaves one less person out in coverage. Do it too much and then it becomes expected and any decent QB will find his dump off target before the D can get there. One thing I like about when the Bills do blitz, it's always a surprise and more often than not, it works very well. Everyone who is wishing for more blitzes, careful for what you wish for. I do believe McD will take more chances than Frazier, but only minimally.

 

I would like to point out though that there is a very good chance that McD may not have to blitz more to be successful. Von Miller wasn't the only injury along the defensive line. There were other key contributors that missed time. Also, it is not out of the realm of possibility that some of the young talent on the line have a break out season. I believe the defense could very well be more aggressive without the need for sending a blitz. If this Dline stays relatively healthy this year, it is going to appear that they are more aggressive, but with less of a need to blitz often.

[BarleyNY]

18 hours ago, DJB said:

 

 

That is not a picture of Chad Greenway. Also, how old is this quote? Frazier hasn’t been in Minnesota for decade. 

[Steptide]

Wonder why he threw in Fraizers name. He Coulda just said the Tampa 2 defense 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Defense in today's NFL is so difficult.  People say be aggressive.  But elite QBs statistically thrive against the blitz. We would like nothing better than opposing tema to blitz Josh. Elite QBs make big plays vs the blitz. 

The challenge is always can you make enough big plays on defense or do you opt to keep everything in front of you and hope opponent makes a mistake such as a penalty or dropped ball. 

The fan in us says apply the pressure. 

The analytics probably say rush 4 and drop 7 wins most of the time. 

 

In the end, we just need Allen to outscore them.  That doesn't mean be foolish and go for it on every fourth down or stop kicking FGs. It means do everything you can to make Josh's job easy and get the ball in the hands of Diggs, Knox, and Kincaid early and often.

 

Excellent post. And the fact is they HAVE had success against Mahomes blitzing him zero times on one occassion and I think just twice another. They just haven't played their best football on defense against KC and Cincy in the playoffs. Against Cincy they don't have the regular season proof that they can do it either, I get that. But the fact is in the NFL it is a lot about playing your best come playoff time. The Bills haven't managed that on defense yet but I don't think that is nearly as much on gameplans as it is on execution. You can't heavily blitz the elite guys they eat you up.

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

That is not a picture of Chad Greenway. Also, how old is this quote? Frazier hasn’t been in Minnesota for decade. 

 

Yea it is an old quote they have dug up to pile on Leslie. Cos that is the cool thing to do these days. He is responsible for all the Bills' ills in recent years. And he probably caused Covid. I bet he has ranch on his wings too. 

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea it is an old quote they have dug up to pile on Leslie. Cos that is the cool thing to do these days. He is responsible for all the Bills' ills in recent years. And he probably caused Covid. I bet he has ranch on his wings too. 

 

It’s amazing how horrible every ex-Bill coach and player is - after they’re gone.

[DJB]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Excellent post. And the fact is they HAVE had success against Mahomes blitzing him zero times on one occassion and I think just twice another. They just haven't played their best football on defense against KC and Cincy in the playoffs. Against Cincy they don't have the regular season proof that they can do it either, I get that. But the fact is in the NFL it is a lot about playing your best come playoff time. The Bills haven't managed that on defense yet but I don't think that is nearly as much on gameplans as it is on execution. You can't heavily blitz the elite guys they eat you up.

Only fans that are out of touch with the game want a heavy blitz. But it’s not unreasonable to mix them in from time to time to keep the offense honest and on their toes and make our D less predictable 

 

I think I also want to see less times where we see the DB’s 10 yards off the line of scrimmage especially in short yardage situations. Those were baffling to me and clearly evident in the Bengals game. Can’t happen again 

Edited September 4, 2023 by DJB

[MikePJ76]

9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

It’s amazing how horrible every ex-Bill coach and player is - after they’re gone.

This happens all over.  Its not team specific.

 

Generally when defensive coaches get fired or leave....the new guy is always more aggressive and uses more diverse fronts etc...

When offensive coaches are fired the new guy is always more multiple and uses space more in his offense and will bring college concepts etc..

 

its all nonsense.  

 

It will always be about the jimmy and joe's more than the X's and the O's.  

 

The great coaches keep players/teams focused and interested.  They make the game easier for the players and they situationally are excellent play callers/schemers.

Edited September 4, 2023 by MikePJ76

[Bermuda Triangle]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sure. Did we play 3rd string QBs all season? 

Zach Wilson set a career high for completion percentage against the Bills last season.

[BillsFan130]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sure. Did we play 3rd string QBs all season? 

There’s no argument that he had very good regular season defences.

 

But he objectively had horrible defences in the playoffs. Historically bad

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

There’s no argument that he had very good regular season defences.

 

But he objectively had horrible defences in the playoffs. Historically bad

 

Historically bad??

[stinky finger]

DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Historically bad??

In their elimination games, yes.

 

Bengals had 30 first downs. It broke some sort of record- I can’t remember if it was a franchised based record or what not.

 

Chiefs- 42 points. 30 first downs. 552 yards of offence .

 

Thats 60 first downs let up in your last 2 elimination games combined and just under 1000 yards of offence🤢

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

In their elimination games, yes.

 

Bengals had 30 first downs. It broke some sort of record- I can’t remember if it was a franchised based record or what not.

 

Chiefs- 42 points. 30 first downs. 552 yards of offence .

 

Thats 60 first downs let up in your last 2 elimination games combined and just under 1000 yards of offence🤢

 

Oh okay so historically bad if we only count two games. Got it. 

 

Nobody is denying they have played badly in those two games.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

In their elimination games, yes.

 

Bengals had 30 first downs. It broke some sort of record- I can’t remember if it was a franchised based record or what not.

 

Chiefs- 42 points. 30 first downs. 552 yards of offence .

 

Thats 60 first downs let up in your last 2 elimination games combined and just under 1000 yards of offence🤢

Isnt every game in the playoffs an elimination game? What about the game changing INT returned for a TD by Taron Johnson? That's a top 3 play in franchise history. And how about the Hyde end-zone INT at home against the Patriots? 

No doubt defense choked away a win against Houston and 13 seconds. Cinci last year was an aberration. Bills were down so many players and emotionally spent. 

Still want to see more from the stars on D. This playoff season need to see Miller, Rousseau, Oliver, White, and Milano step up.

[WhoTom]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Defense in today's NFL is so difficult.  People say be aggressive.  But elite QBs statistically thrive against the blitz. We would like nothing better than opposing tema to blitz Josh. Elite QBs make big plays vs the blitz. 

The challenge is always can you make enough big plays on defense or do you opt to keep everything in front of you and hope opponent makes a mistake such as a penalty or dropped ball. 

The fan in us says apply the pressure. 

The analytics probably say rush 4 and drop 7 wins most of the time. 

 

In the end, we just need Allen to outscore them.  That doesn't mean be foolish and go for it on every fourth down or stop kicking FGs. It means do everything you can to make Josh's job easy and get the ball in the hands of Diggs, Knox, and Kincaid early and often.

 

That reads like an endorsement of a bend but don't break defense.

[stinky finger]

23 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

is this a quote from like 10 years ago?

 

Doesn't seem relevant to me.  They didn't really get much better with zimmer's aggressive defense the next season.  

 

I have never believed Frazier was not doing in part what McDermott wanted.  If you become a head coach based on something you did to get you hired you are not just going to let someone else run that unit without your final say on things.

time will tell and hopefully they pick their spots to be more aggressive but I am not anticipating this large change many seem to believe is coming.

 

While this might be true, I'd have to think McDermott knows the previous formula hasn't worked. Especially in big games vs prime opposition.

 

If he's smart, and I think he is, he'll adjust - perhaps noticeably (ie. aggressive).

[Bermuda Triangle]

27 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

In their elimination games, yes.

 

Bengals had 30 first downs. It broke some sort of record- I can’t remember if it was a franchised based record or what not.

 

Chiefs- 42 points. 30 first downs. 552 yards of offence .

 

Thats 60 first downs let up in your last 2 elimination games combined and just under 1000 yards of offence🤢

The D was pretty horrible against a washed up Philip Rivers in the WC win in the 2020 playoffs.

[stinky finger]

23 hours ago, Dan in Owego said:

This is completely true but we hashed this out on here last January, I would like to see an approach like Spags. Top 15 ish during the year but more unpredictable and risk taking in the playoffs. 

 

Frazier the coach and man I have respect for and no need to beat him down, just seems like the right time for some tweaks.

 

Thanks - disagreeing or disliking his play calls isn't hating on the guy. He's an absolute gentleman and has run some good D's. It just wasn't working here, especially n big games. Tough to argue that.

23 hours ago, BillzFreak said:

I understand the game changes, but to really not be aggressive at all, even in today's NFL you have to be multiple. It just seemed to me, we were content on playing the same way over and over again. Yes it has lead to being a top 10 defense year after year but having no counter punch ability in the playoffs has been a big downside of these teams lately.

 

This

 

Successful teams adjust. Our biggest issue last year (on the field) was predictability. On BOTH sides of the ball.