Is the MLB Competition Over Before It Started?

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

Yeah, Dodson and Sam Mills belong in the same sentence. 

They could. 

 

For example. Neither Sam Mills, nor Terrell Dodson, have ever been in my kitchen.

[ddaryl]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

This "competition" was never much of a competition to begin with. They had Dodson, who is a career backup but knows the defense, and they had Bernard, who is the size of a safety. They never even made an attempt to replace Edmunds and I think it will come back to bite them in the you know what. The MLB is a very important piece in this defense. It's the Luke Kuechly position. You can't just stick a backup in there and call it a day

 

 

We better hope the DL is lights out this season

[Process]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

This "competition" was never much of a competition to begin with. They had Dodson, who is a career backup but knows the defense, and they had Bernard, who is the size of a safety. They never even made an attempt to replace Edmunds and I think it will come back to bite them in the you know what. The MLB is a very important piece in this defense. It's the Luke Kuechly position. You can't just stick a backup in there and call it a day

Our HC is a defensive guy, and also our DC. He's known and proven to value the defense over offense and to pour a **** ton of resources into that side of the ball. If the MLB spot was that important in his defense we would have brought in a new MLB. 

 

We will be fine without Edmunds. We are stacked everywhere else on D. It would have been disappointing to see them go for a high end replacement. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

But some perspective.

 

Our defense averages 16.7 ppg last season when Dodson did not start.

 

Dodson started against Goff and gave up 25. 

Dodson started against Brissett and gave up 23.

 

The only game our defense (with Dodson) didn’t do worse than our average was against Pittsburgh with them starting their rookie QB for the first time ever.

 

The Lions were #5 in the NFL in scoring.  

 

They are currently 9th in Vegas odds to win the Super Bowl just because of their offense.  

 

No team can hover around their average the entire year.  There are ups and downs.

 

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

And yet he soldiered on and led the team in tackles 🙂 

 

Their top 10 running game managed 51 yards on 19 carries.  If you want to add in the QB scrambles you have 26 carries for 80 yards.  

 

Half of his tackles were on plays that resulted in 1st-Downs.  Just sayin'.   

 

If we're going to analyze, let's look at the entire picture.  

 

 

[Special K]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

 

Because teams never over pay for talent and it never blows up in their face 🤔

 

54 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

Overpaid by the bears

 

Not to mention the fact that the Bears traded Roquan Smith, because they didn’t want to pay him, then overpaid a lesser talent in Edmunds to play the same position.

 

Edmunds getting a massive contract from the Bears says more about the Bears stupidity than the talent level of Edmunds, IMO.

[PBF81]

7 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

They could. 

 

For example. Neither Sam Mills, nor Terrell Dodson, have ever been in my kitchen.

 

LOL  

 

$22,000 gone in Final Jeopardy!!   

 

Good one!  

 

Love the humor here!! 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Process said:

Our HC is a defensive guy, and also our DC. He's known and proven to value the defense over offense and to pour a **** ton of resources into that side of the ball. If the MLB spot was that important in his defense we would have brought in a new MLB. 

 

We will be fine without Edmunds. We are stacked everywhere else on D. It would have been disappointing to see them go for a high end replacement. 

 

That is the rose-colored glasses narrative alright.  

 

We'll see how it all shakes out.  

 

  

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by PBF81

[Beast]

8 minutes ago, Process said:

Our HC is a defensive guy, and also our DC. He's known and proven to value the defense over offense and to pour a **** ton of resources into that side of the ball. If the MLB spot was that important in his defense we would have brought in a new MLB. 

 

We will be fine without Edmunds. We are stacked everywhere else on D. It would have been disappointing to see them go for a high end replacement. 

If you don’t believe that the only reason the Bills didn’t sign Edmunds is because they didn’t have the cap space you are fooling yourself.

 

You’re about to see how much Edmunds meant to this defense when teams can start passing the ball consistently over the middle on this team. Edmunds was a menace to offenses in the pass game. Like having Rodan playing in the middle.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Beast

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

This "competition" was never much of a competition to begin with. They had Dodson, who is a career backup but knows the defense, and they had Bernard, who is the size of a safety. They never even made an attempt to replace Edmunds and I think it will come back to bite them in the you know what. The MLB is a very important piece in this defense. It's the Luke Kuechly position. You can't just stick a backup in there and call it a day

 

I think the Bills did attempt to replace Edmunds, but came up short on those they pursued. I agree that it will negatively impact the defense if they can’t find someone to adequately replace him. I am intrigued by what a dime package with Rapp replacing the MLB will look like, but I do not think that’ll be an adequate regular defense.

 

It’ll be interesting to see what McDermott can do with what he has to work with. IMO too many times the answer to issues on the defense was using a premium draft pick or dropping. big money on a FA. That’s just not sustainable if you want to maintain a quality offense. Time for McDermott to show what he can do as a DC. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

Not to mention the fact that the Bears traded Roquan Smith, because they didn’t want to pay him, then overpaid a lesser talent in Edmunds to play the same position.

 

Edmunds getting a massive contract from the Bears says more about the Bears stupidity than the talent level of Edmunds, IMO.

 

One could also argue that they let Smith go for more money because they thought that Edmunds could do the same or better, or that perhaps his skillset offered something that Smith's didn't.  

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other there, except to say that IMO (as in opinion, and therefore TBD) is that Edmunds at 25 will be a whole lot better than he has been, in the same role that Smith's been in over there in Chicago, and out of the role he's been in here.  

 

I do find it amusing that McD's an expert and "knows what he's doing and is there for a reason," while their coaches, Eberflus and their Defensive Coordinator Williams (also from William & Mary BTW) don't know what they're doing and don't deserve to be there and aren't the same "experts" that our coaching staff is.  LOL  

 

 

1 hour ago, Beast said:

If you don’t believe that the only reason the Bills didn’t sign Edmunds is because they didn’t have the cap space you are fooling yourself.

 

You’re about to see how much Edmunds meant to this defense when teams can start passing the ball consistently over the middle on this team. Edmunds was a menace to offenses in the pass game. Like having Rodan playing in the middle.

 

What will be interesting is how the narratives here will change if that in fact turns out to be the case.  

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by PBF81

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

29 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Half of his tackles were on plays that resulted in 1st-Downs.  Just sayin'.   

 

If we're going to analyze, let's look at the entire picture.  

 

 

 

He did have a stop on one of the back to back brissett QB runs on 3rd and 1.  Pretty much ended the game right there.  

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

This "competition" was never much of a competition to begin with. They had Dodson, who is a career backup but knows the defense, and they had Bernard, who is the size of a safety. They never even made an attempt to replace Edmunds and I think it will come back to bite them in the you know what. The MLB is a very important piece in this defense. It's the Luke Kuechly position. You can't just stick a backup in there and call it a day

Well we were 4-0 with Dodson starting,  where he practiced all year as the backup so very possible he ups his game.  Like ppl said, the positional value is low , especially on an elite roster, Edmunds never made sense to sign for that $ 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I think the Bills did attempt to replace Edmunds, but came up short on those they pursued. I agree that it will negatively impact the defense if they can’t find someone to adequately replace him. I am intrigued by what a dime package with Rapp replacing the MLB will look like, but I do not think that’ll be an adequate regular defense.

 

It’ll be interesting to see what McDermott can do with what he has to work with. IMO too many times the answer to issues on the defense was using a premium draft pick or dropping. big money on a FA. That’s just not sustainable if you want to maintain a quality offense. Time for McDermott to show what he can do as a DC. 

 

 

They drafted a TE and a guard seeing that... they needed better hands and another weapon, and just trying to build a strong offensive line requires draft resources or a ton of money.  I was hoping one of Sanders or Simpson might slip to us in the 3rd, and it didn't happen.  Not gonna judge a rookie based on his first camp - bernard on the other hand is a year plus in and still doesn't seem capable of playing at the speed needed to be successful.  

 

I do think Dodson/Rapp/Milano/Johnson are all going to be blitzing a bit more than they have in the past - hopefully dodson can prove more valuable in this role than edmunds.  

 

[Buckets]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

And what would your answer be?  Bring in a guy with no experience in McD’s defense, whether rookie or vet? ?  Or stick with a veteran who knows the system as has performed fairly well within it?

 

When are fans going to get it through their heads that there is a salary cap in the NFL and because of that you are not going to have All Pros at every spot on the field?  If one were to listen to the hysteria this past off season we should have brought high priced guys in at MLB, WR2, RT.  That is not the way the NFL works.

Anybody left in Carolina?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Let’s not completely write off Dodson. He’s not Brandon Spikes out there, the kid is a good athlete. Is he a limited athlete? Sure, but the team has stuck with him for 4 years so far. He doesn’t need to be an elite LB, just a 1-2, year place holder.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

So the MLB is now solely responsible for the performance of the defense?  Once again your user name belies your knowledge base.

It was pretty lazy analysis, one would think a physics genius would account for the other rather obvious variables 

[TFBillsfan]

Bernard was a head scratcher when Beane made the pick. It's looking like it was a bad selection which compounded even more by the Williams pick this year. Two years to plan and draft a future successor for Edmunds has not played out and highly likely we will need to address yet AGAIN in next year’s draft.  These are critical misses when you try to address the same position but miss as it creates a domino to upgrade talent in other key areas. Similar to drafting Singletary, followed by Moss, followed by Cook at RB And then again with AJE, Groot and Basham but then having to add FA’s due to the misses.

 

I love Beane but this has been a trend and with certain positions I think it’s far criticism that the scouting team evaluations need to be questioned. I realize you can’t hit on every pick but you can’t continue to have these types of misses in the early rounds. 

 

I’m hoping we add a LB from roster cut downs or thru a player trade. We better hope Milano stays healthy!
 

 

 

[Drew21PA]

Why are people STILL DEFENDING EDMUNDS?!?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Dorian Williams is clearly the future MLB for this team. I get he’s listed at 230, but he looks the part of a modern NFL MLB. 
 

I could be wrong, but I could’ve sworn Beane admitted they drafted Bernard because they didn’t think they’d have Milano long term. I might be wrong. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It was pretty lazy analysis, one would think a physics genius would account for the other rather obvious variables 

 

 

It's all in the math.  Edmunds = Milano x (CJ Mosley squared).

 

 

 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

He did have a stop on one of the back to back brissett QB runs on 3rd and 1.  Pretty much ended the game right there.  

 

So Basham and Jackson didn't "end the game" on the subsequent 4th-and-1?   See how that works.    

 

Either way, presumably you are using a single play to sum up that Dodson was no worse than Edmunds then?  

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by PBF81

[boyst]

3 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Go with Klein 

i'd rather have him as a veteran depth at any position in the linebacking unit, or the 3rd LB we insert. he can play all 3 positions sufficiently.

[PBF81]

41 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

They drafted a TE and a guard seeing that... they needed better hands and another weapon, and just trying to build a strong offensive line requires draft resources or a ton of money.  I was hoping one of Sanders or Simpson might slip to us in the 3rd, and it didn't happen. 

 

That's where we needed to put the resources, better late than never.  

 

 

[PBF81]

30 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Dorian Williams is clearly the future MLB for this team. I get he’s listed at 230, but he looks the part of a modern NFL MLB. 
 

I could be wrong, but I could’ve sworn Beane admitted they drafted Bernard because they didn’t think they’d have Milano long term. I might be wrong. 

 

I haven't seen a single draft profile out there that even approaches agreeing with that.  They say the exact opposite, that he does not have the skillset/phyique to play MLB and is essentially a WLB.  

 

I'm not sure that you realize that.   

 

Bernard was more MLB than Williams is.  

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So Basham and Jackson didn't "end the game" on the subsequent 4th-and-1?   See how that works.    

 

Either way, presumably you are using a single play to sum up that Dodson was no worse than Edmunds then?  

 

 

 

Not really at all... someone earlier had pointed out a missed tackle on brissett earlier in the game.  I just wanted to include that he was in on some plays as well.  

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Go with Klein 

Apparently from the discussion people aren't seeing Klein in the mix.

 

I liked the defense the second week without Edmunds, when they adapted for Klein.  They made an attacking defense where Klein either stuffed the run or went after the QB.  He seemed more suited for that role than Edmunds, and it sped up decisions needed by apposing QBs.  I liked the defense better in that attack mode.

[Mikie2times]

3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

This "competition" was never much of a competition to begin with. They had Dodson, who is a career backup but knows the defense, and they had Bernard, who is the size of a safety. They never even made an attempt to replace Edmunds and I think it will come back to bite them in the you know what. The MLB is a very important piece in this defense. It's the Luke Kuechly position. You can't just stick a backup in there and call it a day

I think we will see a Dodson on run downs and Rupp on passing downs. Rupp played some Linebacker for the Rams already. He was a piece that they moved around. The Bills are going to tackle this by committee. 

 

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2023/1/24/23569606/los-angeles-rams-free-agents-taylor-rapp-linebacker-move 

[PBF81]

8 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Not really at all... someone earlier had pointed out a missed tackle on brissett earlier in the game.  I just wanted to include that he was in on some plays as well.  

 

Well yeah, no doubt, particularly as an MLB, a player that often has the high tackles in a game and for sure in a season.  

 

Last season the 9 top solo tacklers and the top-10 combined tacklers were all LBs, mostly MLB/ILB.  19 of the top-20 combined and 18 of the top-20 solo tacklers were LBs as well.  

 

Every player makes good plays here and there.  ... aka even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.  It's not strong enough to support the argument that the team didn't miss a beat w/o Edmunds.  I realize he only started 3 games, but Dodson ranked 384th in Solo Tackles last year and 416th in Comb Tackles.  

 

Edmunds has a lot of detractors here.  

 

 

7 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I think we will see a Dodson on run downs and Rupp on passing downs. Rupp played some Linebacker for the Rams already. He was a piece that they moved around. The Bills are going to tackle this by committee. 

 

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2023/1/24/23569606/los-angeles-rams-free-agents-taylor-rapp-linebacker-move 

 

What McD does is going to be interesting for sure.  

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by PBF81

[Bookie Man]

Edmunds lacks instincts as a run stopper and always seemed to drop interceptions. He will most likely be missed vs the pass. But hopefully with everyone in the secondary seemingly healthier, this makes up for it. MLB should be atop the list of positions to upgrade going into 2024. 

[Nephilim17]

Will our MLB show Pro Bowl play this year? No. Will it be a huge factor? I doubt it. 

How many teams do we play where we're nervous because they have a tall and fast middle linebacker who isn't a great tackler? Let's revisit this in few months but it's not the lynchpin of this defense.

[ColoradoBills]

40 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I think we will see a Dodson on run downs and Rupp on passing downs. Rupp played some Linebacker for the Rams already. He was a piece that they moved around. The Bills are going to tackle this by committee. 

 

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2023/1/24/23569606/los-angeles-rams-free-agents-taylor-rapp-linebacker-move 

 

I like the idea and have mentioned the possibility myself.  I just don't know how the "green dot" helmet works out.

Do they give it to a safety?

[Mikie2times]

9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I like the idea and have mentioned the possibility myself.  I just don't know how the "green dot" helmet works out.

Do they give it to a safety?

https://www.sportscasting.com/whats-with-the-green-dots-on-nfl-helmets-and-how-many-players-have-them/

 

Perhaps two players can have the dot?

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

https://www.sportscasting.com/whats-with-the-green-dots-on-nfl-helmets-and-how-many-players-have-them/

 

Perhaps two players can have the dot?

 

 

 

2 players can but the rules are a little weird on how they can be used.  Maybe someone who knows for sure can chime in.

The other thing is, if 2 players are calling plays, will they be effective having limited experience doing it?  I'm not sure.

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Just for some context -

 

The lions had the #4 Offensive in football.  Coming off a 3 game winning streak (and following this loss with 3 more wins).  They had 3 turnovers total in that 7 game stretch and 2 were against buffalo, and it was among their mediocre to poor outings on the season.  And also dodson played 10 snaps in that game - klein played 71.  

 

You’re making a great point for why Klein should start.

[PBF81]

33 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Will our MLB show Pro Bowl play this year? No. Will it be a huge factor? I doubt it. 

How many teams do we play where we're nervous because they have a tall and fast middle linebacker who isn't a great tackler? Let's revisit this in few months but it's not the lynchpin of this defense.

 

It's pretty likely that we won't get Pro Bowl play from our MLB spot, which you say.  But that's not really the question.  The question is whether or not we'll even get average play at the position, and if not, how much below-average play we'll end up getting.  Then given that, if it does end up being below-average, how will McD compensate for it.  

 

A huge resultant hole in the middle of an NFL defense is hardly somethng that one can so easily step over and ignore should it turn out to be the case.  

 

I don't recall ever having seen an NFL defense without a capable MLB or at least one capable ILB.  Right now we've not proven that we have that.  Hope and coachspeak lipservice doesn't equate to proven.  

 

We don't know how this is going to play out, we don't even know what McD's solution to the issue is.   

 

Not arguing, simply supplementing.  But of all the uncertainty on this team, this has to be the most relevant uncertain issue heading into the season, indisputably.  

 

 

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

So the MLB is now solely responsible for the performance of the defense?  Once again your user name belies your knowledge base.

 

You noted that the team was 4-0 with Dodson, indicating that you believe his performance contributed to that record.

 

Then why I posted the stats from those wins, suddenly the MLB is not part of the defensive performance?

 

Uhm…

 

 

 

[Dan Darragh]

5 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

It's the Luke Kuechly position. 

No it isn't, it's the Dick Butkus position.

[ngbills]

Here is what a lot of people miss. Football is a team sport more than any other sport. Generally speaking, outside of QB, you can lose players and adjust to not have a significant impact. You change out a player and the entire unit can make up for that loss. However, sometimes there are things that are less noticeable to the average fans. Hence comments like how are we ever gonna replace Edmunds 5 tackles or 1 sack, etc. The bigger impact is whoever replaces Edmunds will have a different skillset that impacts the players around him. Edmunds size and speed allowed the Bills to utilize DB's in different ways when Edmunds is on the field. You could use the front in different ways because of Edmunds. Replacing him with a more traditional MLB will changes things and the hope is that there will not be a big impact. Long story short its not just what the player does, but what the player allows the entire defense to do. 

[Apocalypse Nuts]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

And what would your answer be?  Bring in a guy with no experience in McD’s defense, whether rookie or vet? ?  Or stick with a veteran who knows the system as has performed fairly well within it?

 

When are fans going to get it through their heads that there is a salary cap in the NFL and because of that you are not going to have All Pros at every spot on the field?  If one were to listen to the hysteria this past off season we should have brought high priced guys in at MLB, WR2, RT.  That is not the way the NFL works.

Oldman knows

[oldmanfan]

44 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

You noted that the team was 4-0 with Dodson, indicating that you believe his performance contributed to that record.

 

Then why I posted the stats from those wins, suddenly the MLB is not part of the defensive performance?

 

Uhm…

 

 

 

Two words.  Multiple variable.  Go take Statistics 101