Giants and Barkley agree on a 1-year 11M deal

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They signed Jones on what they hope he becomes. If he doesn’t take a step forward he’ll be replaced. Yes his production can be replaced easily. That is the thin line with QBs. Coaches and GMs get fired over these decisions. We all know why teams take the risk.

 

Barkley is an elite talent at RB. He’s one of the few deserving of a top RB contract. His issue isn’t so much about being replaceable, it’s injuries. If Barkley were durable he would’ve reset the RB market. There’s so much working against RBs. The elite ones also have to be durable which is hard to do. 

The main issue for RBs though is the committee approach which gives opportunities to lesser RBs. These lesser RBs then show they can do the job cheaper. Most teams use 2-3 RBs consistently. 

 

1. Great point that some don't want to acknowledge.   

 

2. Not really.  Barkley has just proven that he's very good(but not great) when healthy.   He missed much of the 2 seasons prior to last due to injury and performed woefully when active.   If anything he has proven that he isn't so good that giving him a long term contract is justified despite the risk of injury.   

[Brand J]

He’s still got a ways to go to catch Dawson Knox in contractual earnings.

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, mrags said:

Wasnt he initially offered 2 years, 26m?

 

He’ll never get 13+ next year. Can’t fix stupid. 

 

That was the report.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/saquon-barkley-signing-new-deal-with-giants-a-timeline-of-contract-drama-how-both-sides-reached-agreement/

 

Quote

The Giants extend an offer to Barkley worth $13M annually and includes $26 million over the first two years, according to Pro Football Talk. That offer is made prior to the deadline to apply the franchise tag, but comes with the message from the team that it would rescind the offer if it applies the tag. After seeing this report, however, Barkley takes to social media to dispute that offer from New York.

 

Barkley called the reported contract offer "cap" though, so it may have been incentive-laden or had other conditions

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I personally think Jones is on a path to be a better-than-average QB. He has gotten better over time and had the lowest interception rate in the NFL last season to go along with a 67.2 percent completion rate and 22 total TDs. His QBR of 60.8 was pretty strong too, assuming people put stock in that (his passer rating was 92.5, which was above average -- his rating-plus was 104, with 100 being league average).  The Giants' receiving corps was also abjectly terrible last season.

He’s in his 5th year in the nfl Dave. I’m what world is 22 totals, especially when 7 are rushing, are good for a qb in todays nfl?  I would be like equivalent of a rb getting like 600 yards rushing 

 

also isn’t one of the reasons you pay a qb is they evaluate your team? It is very rare when you watch a Giants game snd think Jones is the reason the team wins 

 

 

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

1. Great point that some don't want to acknowledge.   

 

2. Not really.  Barkley has just proven that he's very good(but not great) when healthy.   He missed much of the 2 seasons prior to last due to injury and performed woefully when active.   If anything he has proven that he isn't so good that giving him a long term contract is justified despite the risk of injury.   

Barkley is held back by the giants crappy oline and the terrible passing attack led by Jones. You kinda made the point of why Barkley is more important. No team fears Jones so they stack boxes and try to shut down Barkley. 
 

Barkley has played with a bottom tier qb his whole career. Imagine him with a good qb teams actually feared. He would be even better than now and he’s still really good. 

[dave mcbride]

38 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

The insanely short average depth of target is a concern to me.  His intended air yards per pass attempt of 6.4 was one of the lowest figures in the league - which likely contributed to a reduced interception rate, and reduced fumbles.  The issue there is A - they don't have the horses to make that a truly dangerous offense (even with Barkley) and B - I'm not sure he's capable of stretching the field from the pocket.  Between this limitation, their defense, their division, their success the previous season in 1 score games, I see them struggling to get much more than like 7 wins.

 

He's tied for 10th with the AAV of his contract, and he just isn't a top 10 QB.  Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Rodgers, Tua, Lamar, Lawrence are clearly a class above him - then you have Cousins, Geno, Carr, Goff, Dak, Stafford and Kyler where if they aren't better, it's at least a debate.   I expect rookies from this class to surpass him before the end of next season as well as guys like Purdy/Lance and potentially Pickett.  It's not the worst contract out there (Wilson, Watson, probably Rodgers), but I just think this is who he is.  A QB with short throw accuracy, who is a threat to run.  For the price they paid he should be more than that, considering Heinicke cost 7M (plus athlete) and Minshew was 3.5M (short throw accuracy).

Good post. They do have better weapons this season and a better overall roster, so we’ll see who he really is this year. People do get better as they get more experience. Also, with regard to his arm, it’s actually pretty decent. It’s not Allen-level, but it’s Tua/Tannehill/Goff level. (Goff, btw, had a sneakily good season last year.) He is widely regarded as a good athlete with excellent size. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He’s in his 5th year in the nfl Dave. I’m what world is 22 totals, especially when 7 are rushing, are good for a qb in todays nfl?  I would be like equivalent of a rb getting like 600 yards rushing 

 

also isn’t one of the reasons you pay a qb is they evaluate your team? It is very rare when you watch a Giants game snd think Jones is the reason the team wins 

 

 

Barkley is held back by the giants crappy oline and the terrible passing attack led by Jones. You kinda made the point of why Barkley is more important. No team fears Jones so they stack boxes and try to shut down Barkley. 
 

Barkley has played with a bottom tier qb his whole career. Imagine him with a good qb teams actually feared. He would be even better than now and he’s still really good. 

Who were the Giants’ receivers last season again? A fair argument could be made that they had the least talented receiving corps in the league. His fifth year hasn’t started yet either. More generally, C.B., you strike me as a death-or-glory sort of evaluator when it comes to QBs — they’re either great or suck. You said this about Derek Carr for years. You say it about Tannehill. I think you said it about Jimmy G too. Maybe Cousins as well. Yet the truth is that the world is mostly shades of gray rather than black and white, and guys like these are all decent-but-not-elite QBs who on average tend to win more than they lose. They’re in that range of 12-18 in terms of ranking — ie, not horrible and definitely more valuable than any one particular running back. And most of these guys got better over time because of experience. Also, they have all been better than the QBs the Bills trotted out from the 2000 benching of Flutie to the arrival of Josh Allen. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Oof - I'm shocked on that.  

 

What about player options?  Like you guarantee yourself a salary if you pick up ur option - or you can opt out?  Or you can play your way into a raise that way with some kind of contract escalator - you hit 1200 yards your salary for next season is higher than if you don't, etc.  Trying to think about how to help the running backs out.  

 

If you want to help running backs, you do what RB Chris Johnson did: dont let your kids grow up to be RBs, make them convert to WR when they hit high school.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849372-ex-titans-rb-chris-johnson-wont-let-sons-play-rb-due-to-pay-gap-poor-treatment

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

One plays the most important position in sports. The other plays a position moderately more valuable than special teamers.

 

It’s criminal that Taiwan Jones is the best kick off coverage guy in football and he makes less than Saquon!

 

That's a poor analogy.

 

How many toches does Taiwan Jones see per game?  Per season?   How many yards?  How many TDs does did he score?

 

Is Taiwan Jones directly tied to the success of this franchise?

8 hours ago, SCBills said:

It 100% does.  
 

These comparisons are honestly getting ridiculous.  
 

Giants have a chance to make the playoffs with Daniel Jones, who is a Carr/Cousins ceiling QB, in the NFC. 
 

Giants have no chance if they had to start over with a rookie while leaning on a massive multi-year deal for an elite RB that’s dealt with injuries prior to this past year. 

They’re in that weird mid-level/back-end of the Top 10-12 QB category.  
 

Probably not good enough to win big, or consistently with.. but in a weak conference, the QB makes them a playoff contender and they’d need to tank the season if they had thoughts of Caleb Williams or Drake Maye. 

Barkley maybe adds a win or two to their record.  Jones is what makes them a playoff contender… even with the weaknesses he has. 
 

 

Strongly disagree.  Barkley is what makes that team go, not Daniel Jones.  Teams game plan to stop Barkley not Daniel Jones.  

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

That's a poor analogy.

 

How many toches does Taiwan Jones see per game?  Per season?   How many yards?  How many TDs does did he score?

 

Is Taiwan Jones directly tied to the success of this franchise?

 

Strongly disagree.  Barkley is what makes that team go, not Daniel Jones.  Teams game plan to stop Barkley not Daniel Jones.  

 

To that point, Daniel Jones touched the ball on 1089 plays last season. Barkley had 295. After Jones handed him the ball.

[Chicken Boo]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

To that point, Daniel Jones touched the ball on 1089 plays last season. Barkley had 295. After Jones handed him the ball.

 

And that's a fine argument for Daniel Jones, not Taiwan.  

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Without looking, I’ll bet you money the giants have a better record in games Barkley started and finished than Jones? You in?

So QB wins is a bad stat, but RB wins isn't?

 

I'll let you continue to embarrass yourself

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

So QB wins is a bad stat, but RB wins isn't?

 

I'll let you continue to embarrass yourself

Yeah you really got me there! Translation: you’re too big of a kitty cat to bet that because you know you’re wrong. Hell, even do points per game when Barkley finishes games.
 

I’ll slow it down for you simple Jack: the point is Barkley is much more important to the offense than Jones. Bet me coward!

32 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

To that point, Daniel Jones touched the ball on 1089 plays last season. Barkley had 295. After Jones handed him the ball.

I’m not really sure what this point is. The qbs who gave the ball to McCaffery touched the ball more than him. Who’s more important to their team’s success? Or Tannehill vs Henry?

[FireChans]

25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah you really got me there! Translation: you’re too big of a kitty cat to bet that because you know you’re wrong. Hell, even do points per game when Barkley finishes games.
 

I’ll slow it down for you simple Jack: the point is Barkley is much more important to the offense than Jones. Bet me coward!

I’m not really sure what this point is. The qbs who gave the ball to McCaffery touched the ball more than him. Who’s more important to their team’s success? Or Tannehill vs Henry?

Lmao go check Henry’s wins with and without Tanny.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

16 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Good post. They do have better weapons this season and a better overall roster, so we’ll see who he really is this year. People do get better as they get more experience. Also, with regard to his arm, it’s actually pretty decent. It’s not Allen-level, but it’s Tua/Tannehill/Goff level. (Goff, btw, had a sneakily good season last year.) He is widely regarded as a good athlete with excellent size. 

 

I just think you kind of know who someone is after 4 seasons - and he isn't worth 40M per year.  

[Einstein's Dog]

9 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I just think you kind of know who someone is after 4 seasons - and he isn't worth 40M per year.  

 

I have said before, and still think, the unexpectedly good start last year was not great for the long term.  It may have altered their moving Barkley and may have been a factor in their decision to fund Danny.  Being one of the teams with a mediocre QB and a good, expensive RB is not the answer.

 

Looks like Shoen/Daboll are going a different path than what they experienced with the Bills years ago.  This is like extending Tyrod and paying McCoy, hoping you can keep a slightly above .500 team together and sneak into the playoffs again.  I don't know if they'll make it, and even if they do their long term prospects don't look great to me.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 

I have said before, and still think, the unexpectedly good start last year was not great for the long term.  It may have altered their moving Barkley and may have been a factor in their decision to fund Danny.  Being one of the teams with a mediocre QB and a good, expensive RB is not the answer.

 

Looks like Shoen/Daboll are going a different path than what they experienced with the Bills years ago.  This is like extending Tyrod and paying McCoy, hoping you can keep a slightly above .500 team together and sneak into the playoffs again.  I don't know if they'll make it, and even if they do their long term prospects don't look great to me.

 

They better hope hes more hurts and less tyrod - or theyre both going to get fired.