NoSaint Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 3 hours ago, MJS said: You should do an analysis of coaches who are fired after consecutive 10+ win seasons, winning the division, winning playoff games, and having top 10 ranked offenses and defenses. I bet the list is pretty small. Not making a superbowl is not what will get a coach fired. Having subpar seasons will get you fired, such as missing the playoffs multiple times, or not being able to win a playoff game after a bunch of tries, or having losing seasons. Getting to the playoffs and winning playoff games after winning the division and having excellent regular season records is just not going to get you fired, usually. yea man, I’m sure bengals fans warmly miss the Marvin Lewis years 29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Success in football is a multi factorial process. The analysis provided here is a good example of correlation not equaling causation. Take the 2 year data point. It is intimated that a new HC can put together a winner in 2 years. The much more likely reason is that the necessary players were already there and the new coach had an advantage going in. Gruden in Tampa Bay would be a good example. While I’m not an Einstein I am a scientist with 40 years experience in research, including acting as a reviewer for many journals and for the NIH and FDA. What you see here is a classic example of deciding on a conclusion, then looking for data to support it, rather than asking a research question then looking at all data that relate to it. The term is ascertainment bias. I believe stability in the front office gives a better chance of success than not. Having a consistent philosophy allows one to draft and select FAs that fit your philosophy vs. changing philosophies every time the HC or GM changes. Even successful rosters see huge churn in 3 years. Taking over a team results in having a ton of your own guys inside of 2 off-seasons. Most importantly, a cost controlled quarterback 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 57 minutes ago, Augie said: McNabb was unique for his time, and not a terrible player. Not great, but certainly not terrible. McNabb also had little talent around him. I am a McNabb fan and he got screwed by Philly starting the night he was drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, JJGauna said: I bet the Browns decided to look at this chart then decided to move on from Bill Belichick. That worked out so well for them. Belichick didn’t have a franchise QB in Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Gugny said: McNabb also had little talent around him. I am a McNabb fan and he got screwed by Philly starting the night he was drafted. He couldn’t do crunches in the driveway like TO either, I’m guessing! So there is that, too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Success in football is a multi factorial process. The fact that there are so many different variables and the data is still so consistent is what makes it so remarkable. 58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Take the 2 year data point. It is intimated that a new HC can put together a winner in 2 years. 4.2 years is the average. 58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: What you see here is a classic example of deciding on a conclusion, then looking for data to support it, rather than asking a research question then looking at all data that relate to it. The term is ascertainment bias. You have no basis for this assertion. This is a 40 year data set that proves the assertion. 58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I believe stability in the front office gives a better chance of success than not. The data disproves this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 44 minutes ago, NoSaint said: yea man, I’m sure bengals fans warmly miss the Marvin Lewis years No, he could not win in the playoffs. McDermott can. It is completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 minute ago, MJS said: No, he could not win in the playoffs. McDermott can. It is completely different. There are 16 current head coaches who have been in the playoffs. McD is 13th among them, in playoff win percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 10 minutes ago, Einstein said: The fact that there are so many different variables and the data is still so consistent is what makes it so remarkable. 4.2 years is the average. You have no basis for this assertion. This is a 40 year data set that proves the assertion. The data disproves this. 1. You said the largest data point was 2 years to win. 2. I have reviewed hundreds of papers and grants. Your presentation would be rejected because you chose an analysis designed to prove a preformed conclusion. I see this all the time. 3. The data does not disprove what I said, a stable front office includes GMs. Pittsburg and NE have won the most SBs. Stable structures helped there but of course were not the only thing , such as having great QBs. Which is my point, and why yours is not necessarily meaningful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: 1. You said the largest data point was 2 years to win. You said that you are a scientist with experience in research. Surely you understand that the mode does not intimate the expected result. 12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: you chose an analysis designed to prove a preformed conclusion. You already wrote this but, again, you have no basis for this assertion. Not a single shred of evidence. While on the off-topic subject, what you said is complete nonsense. The pre-bias of the researcher is not grounds for dismissal of a study UNLESS the pre-bias directly affects the results. Show me a researcher without bias and i’ll show you a liar. Its called a hypothesis. Researchers tackle subjects that interest them, and subjects that interest people have inherent bias. Numerous studies - including massively funded, accepted and peer reviewed studies - were originated because the research team had a hypothesis that they were attempting to prove was true. If the data set as large as this one (40 years) and shows a consistent result, it is accepted regardless of intent. It would be peer reviewed and the data would stand on its own. 12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The data does not disprove what I said, a stable front office includes GMs. In the vast majority of situations, the coach and GM are hired concurrently. And for many successful coaches, they ARE the gm. Belichick, Carrol, Reid (who hand picked his own GM), Payton (who is said to have control over personnel), etc. . Edited June 25, 2023 by Einstein 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 How long does it take for the entire board to put pillar of negativity on ignore. the more you guys respond, the more the troll eats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuba guy Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 3 hours ago, LeGOATski said: That's incorrect. The complete data shows that it typically almost never happens. I concur I believe he can't read his own results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, Einstein said: You said that you are a scientist with experience in research. Surely you understand that the mode does not intimate the expected result. You already wrote this but, again, you have no basis for this assertion. Not a single shred of evidence. While on the off-topic subject, what you said is complete nonsense. The pre-bias of the researcher is not grounds for dismissal of a study UNLESS the pre-bias directly affects the results. Show me a researcher without bias and i’ll show you a liar. Its called a hypothesis. Researchers tackle subjects that interest them, and subjects that interest people have inherent bias. Numerous studies - including massively funded, accepted and peer reviewed studies - were originated because the research team had a hypothesis that they were attempting to prove was true. If the data set as large as this one (40 years) and shows a consistent result, it is accepted regardless of intent. It would be peer reviewed and the data would stand on its own. In the vast majority of situations, the coach and GM are hired concurrently. And for many successful coaches, they ARE the gm. Belichick, Carrol, Reid (who hand picked his own GM), Payton (who is said to have control over personnel), etc. . I am well acquainted with the scientific method and hypotheses. I am also well acquainted with trying to make data fit a hypothesis. Which is what you are doing. And if you wanted to focus on mean then why make the point about 2years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Draconator said: This is pointless until you post your 2020 through 2023 tax return. And he didn't say whether it was a bull or bear market when these coaches reached the Super Bowl. Edited June 25, 2023 by first_and_ten 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I am well acquainted with the scientific method and hypotheses. You don’t seem to be. 29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I am also well acquainted with trying to make data fit a hypothesis. Which is what you are doing. You still have no basis for this assertion. What is in all actuality happening is that you do not like the data, and with an extremely large data set of 40 years you know that there is very little that you can do to discredit the data. Therefore, you resort to ad hominem. 29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: And if you wanted to focus on mean then why make the point about 2years. It’s called presenting a full data set (I included both mean, mode, and range) to allow people to see the full data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Just now, Einstein said: You don’t seem to be. You still have no basis for this assertion. What is in all actuality happening is that you do not like the data, and with an extremely large data set of 40 years you know that there is very little that you can do to discredit the data. Therefore, you resort to ad hominem. It’s called presenting a full data set (I included both mean, mode, and range) to allow people to see the full data. If you understood the scientific method you’d know that the null set is assumed, I.e. that hypotheses are incorrect. Experimentation and data with appropriate analysis then determine if the null hypothesis is accepted or rejected. All you have done here is start with an assumption that McD is a bad coach, and took a very simple set of carefully selected data to justify that. That is not how the work is done. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: McD has a .639% winning % as a Bills HC. That’s #1 in Bills history eclipsing Saban and Levy. Cut the McD passive aggressive crap Einstein. It’s as transparent as the rest of you’re posts. All you ever do is try and poke holes in anything that instills confidence in this fan base towards the team they love. I’ll enjoy and remind you when we win the Lombardi. It will happen one day and the Pegulas made a regal decision extending the dream team. Well deserved! Or do you want to go back to the drought for 17 years as I know those years painfully well. We were a hot mess with poor decisions at all levels for decades. It is the same second guessing decisions and quick ridiculous decisions that were short sighted that kept us in the Mohave Desert. I never want to back to that HELL! The whole theme of you post is condescending. Then you predict a Bills SB win in the future and threaten to rub it in. Come on man stop with the non sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: All you have done here is start with an assumption that McD is a bad coach The hypothesis doesn’t invalidate the data. Your ruining your scientist ploy. 11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: and took a very simple set of carefully selected data to justify that. All data in studies are selected. There is no other way to narrow the subject from the entire universe to the topic at hand. I think what you meant to say is the data is cherry picked. Which, you would again be wrong, considering I used every Super Bowl attending coach for 40 year. It doesn’t get more large data set than that. As said before - What is actually happening is that you do not like the conclusive results of the data, but you know that with an extremely large data set of 40 years, there is very little that you can do to discredit the data. Therefore, you resort to ad hominem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: So in other words as long as McDermott has Josh as his qb, he'll never get fired. The job requirement is win in the regular season and maybe an occasional playoff game and your safe for life. Or at least as long as 17 is there. Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I am well acquainted with the scientific method and hypotheses. I am also well acquainted with trying to make data fit a hypothesis. Which is what you are doing. And if you wanted to focus on mean then why make the point about 2years. Agree with you. Thanks for well thought posts. Going to put that person ignore. @Einsteinhere is a song for you to listen till while you think about McDermott lol Edited June 25, 2023 by Buffalo Bills Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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