Drew Sanders vs Jack Campbell

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 4/2/2023 at 10:25 AM, Drew21PA said:

Like them both

 

Drew has a mean streak I love from my linebackers like Milano 

 

It would be awesome if we got both.

 

 

On 4/2/2023 at 10:40 AM, gobills404 said:

Because he’s not a significantly better player. He’s played 1 season of off ball LB after playing on the edge at Alabama and because of that he isn’t nearly as instinctive as Campbell. Sanders also had a terrible 20% missed tackle this rate this past season. He may have a higher ceiling than Campbell but the only thing he’s really better at right now is blitzing.

 

He actually has pass rush moves also which makes him better than a blitzer.

 

He reminds of Milano but more explosive which id rather have two Milano's than another Edmunds.

 

 

[Chaos]

On 4/3/2023 at 3:00 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Especially when Campbell is going to be a liability in coverage.

Campbell was the best in the nation in pass coverage among all college LBs in 2022.  Why will he be a liability? 

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Campbell was the best in the nation in pass coverage among all college LBs in 2022.  Why will he be a liability? 

 

So he's 6'5" and 249#, runs a 4.65, has elite 3-cone, good tackler, good instincts and the best in pass coverage in 2022.  Why is he a reach in the late 1st again?

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So he's 6'5" and 249#, runs a 4.65, has elite 3-cone, good tackler, good instincts and the best in pass coverage in 2022.  Why is he a reach in the late 1st again?

I am not sure. Maybe Mel Kiper doesn't like him. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

8 hours ago, Chaos said:

I am not sure. Maybe Mel Kiper doesn't like him. 

Who the Heck is Mel Kiper!?😁

 

BTW, ESPN has him currently ranked as the #1 ILB.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

9 hours ago, Chaos said:

Campbell was the best in the nation in pass coverage among all college LBs in 2022.  Why will he be a liability? 

Against some of the most archaic offenses in college football. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern and Illinois have playbooks thst make Tecmo Bowl look modern.  He also practices against the worst offense in CFB.  B10 West is devoid of skill too.  
Sanders on the other hand played in the toughest division in CFB, with great skill and collectively the best offensive minds like Kiffin, Freeze, Leach RIP, Denbrock and O’Brien. All he did in his first season off the ball was make first team All Sec with a ridiculous stat line. 
I’m going with the guy with the dynamic skill set over a MLB who’s seen ISO every other play in his career. 
 

[Chaos]

21 minutes ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Against some of the most archaic offenses in college football. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern and Illinois have playbooks thst make Tecmo Bowl look modern.  He also practices against the worst offense in CFB.  B10 West is devoid of skill too.  
Sanders on the other hand played in the toughest division in CFB, with great skill and collectively the best offensive minds like Kiffin, Freeze, Leach RIP, Denbrock and O’Brien. All he did in his first season off the ball was make first team All Sec with a ridiculous stat line. 
I’m going with the guy with the dynamic skill set over a MLB who’s seen ISO every other play in his career. 
 

Sanders is good. He played against better competition. This is true. But Campbell can only play against who he played against, and did it with great success. And athletically he is exactly on par with Sanders.  Both can be good players.  They are close enough that it is ridiculous to say one can project either to have significantly greater success than the other. 

[Ray Finkel]

On 4/2/2023 at 11:08 AM, delirious said:

 

Most sane Edmunds mental gymnast

Right? Shane Conlan would have actually been a beast. Unlike Edmunds.

Shane liked contact.  Edmunds not so much

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Sanders is good. He played against better competition. This is true. But Campbell can only play against who he played against, and did it with great success. And athletically he is exactly on par with Sanders.  Both can be good players.  They are close enough that it is ridiculous to say one can project either to have significantly greater success than the other. 

I don’t disagree with that. But as you know modern offenses are not running 21/22 personnel the majority of the time.   The B10W offenses are not spreading you out and creating mismatches.  They’re running the ball 40 times out of base personnel with bigger backs, nobody in the slot and TEs that are online and not split.  That makes coverage a lot easier. 
I think Campbell will be a good pro but won’t be able to replicate that type of production against the pass in the nfl.  I’m also not saying Sanders will either. 
What I am saying is take the one with the better skill set.  Sanders is a great blitzer for a MLB.  He’ll be able to give you a few reps on the edge which would allow the Bills D to use Rapp more and play more dime.  If McD wants to get more aggressive, Sanders is a guy that helps make the D more dynamic IMO. 

[C.Biscuit97]

15 hours ago, Chaos said:

Campbell was the best in the nation in pass coverage among all college LBs in 2022.  Why will he be a liability? 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jack-campbell/32004341-4d36-4731-433d-b35acfc680bc

https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/jack-campbell-d213e4cd-9072-4d5b-bd52-05f43d4151c0/

 

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Jack-Campbell-LB-Iowa

 

in the only game against a legit passing attack (there are some awful offenses in the big 10, especially with throwing the ball), they lost 54-10 to OSU. there is a huge difference between being a good zone defender in the big 10 and getting schemed up to go man against slots and TEs. That is the underrated part we are going to miss with Edmunds.

 

I really like Campbell but it feels like we are drafting Poz 2.0, which is solid (and I was probably a bigger fan of his than most).  But is that what we should be using a 1st on?

 

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

Sanders is good. He played against better competition. This is true. But Campbell can only play against who he played against, and did it with great success. And athletically he is exactly on par with Sanders.  Both can be good players.  They are close enough that it is ridiculous to say one can project either to have significantly greater success than the other. 

That’s kinda the point. No one is discounting Campbell as being a great college player and athlete. But he won’t be in the nfl and teams scheme weaknesses. The nerd from Miami will have crossing all over the field against us if we had Campbell. 
 

really like the player and hope he can figure it out. But it’s a concern. 

[Allen2Moulds]

Although Drew Sander's athleticism is intriguing, I'll have to go with Campbell for one big reason. The consensus is that Campbell far and away has superior instincts. People sometimes talk about experience and instincts like they are always directly related.

 

Example: Tremaine had off the charts size/ athleticism combo, but lacked instincts. We all closely watched and saw it. We all heard over and over how young he was and how this would improve with experience. I never saw it. I saw a robot, which the good QBs could easily manipulate.

 

I live in Florida, and youth football down here is as big as it is in Texas, or at least close, in my opinion. My son competed and lost to the Pop Warner National Champions, 2 years in a row. I'll never forgot when my son and the offense came off the field and said....dad, their MLB is calling out every play before it happens. I know this is Pop Warner, but it has evolved a ton over the last 30 plus years. My son's team was a spread passing offense. WR ended up being an NBA lotto pick, 7th overall, for context. This is just to show that instincts start to show and develop at a very young age. If we are still questioning it going into the draft, it likely will remain a question like it did with Tremaine.

 

I say all this to say, that when you got it (instincts), you got it. But I'm open for any examples that show otherwise. LB and RB are 2 of the positions, that you typically will see who they are right away. It doesn't take a RB 3-4 years, to see how good he's going to be in the NFL, and I feel the same way about LB.

[dje85]

16 hours ago, Doc said:

 

So he's 6'5" and 249#, runs a 4.65, has elite 3-cone, good tackler, good instincts and the best in pass coverage in 2022.  Why is he a reach in the late 1st again?

He isn't a reach in the late 1st. Especially knowing he won't last to our pick in the second round. His physical combine numbers are very close to what Luke Keuchley's were.

 

  Also, coincidentally he has been training with Keuchley  

 

[Back2Buff]

In terms of first round players, this regime would go for a guy like Sanders before Campbell.  They love to take guys with more potential (Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Rousseau).  Elam has a little more experience than past picks, but still was a very young junior.

 

Campbell will be 23 when the season starts while Sanders will be 21.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Although Drew Sander's athleticism is intriguing, I'll have to go with Campbell for one big reason. The consensus is that Campbell far and away has superior instincts. People sometimes talk about experience and instincts like they are always directly related.

 

Example: Tremaine had off the charts size/ athleticism combo, but lacked instincts. We all closely watched and saw it. We all heard over and over how young he was and how this would improve with experience. I never saw it. I saw a robot, which the good QBs could easily manipulate.

 

I live in Florida, and youth football down here is as big as it is in Texas, or at least close, in my opinion. My son competed and lost to the Pop Warner National Champions, 2 years in a row. I'll never forgot when my son and the offense came off the field and said....dad, their MLB is calling out every play before it happens. I know this is Pop Warner, but it has evolved a ton over the last 30 plus years. My son's team was a spread passing offense. WR ended up being an NBA lotto pick, 7th overall, for context. This is just to show that instincts start to show and develop at a very young age. If we are still questioning it going into the draft, it likely will remain a question like it did with Tremaine.

 

I say all this to say, that when you got it (instincts), you got it. But I'm open for any examples that show otherwise. LB and RB are 2 of the positions, that you typically will see who they are right away. It doesn't take a RB 3-4 years, to see how good he's going to be in the NFL, and I feel the same way about LB.

 

 

I generally agree but occasionally a Demario Davis comes along.   A guy who seems to lack instincts but then 5-6 years into the league it kicks in and he becomes an All Pro after being replacement level for much of the time prior.    It's not the example to go by though.   LB's and RB's usually process info and make decisions quickly or they never do.

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

In terms of first round players, this regime would go for a guy like Sanders before Campbell.  They love to take guys with more potential (Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Rousseau).  Elam has a little more experience than past picks, but still was a very young junior.

 

Campbell will be 23 when the season starts while Sanders will be 21.

Drafting too young is proving to be a bad strategy.  Three years of Edmunds in training, two years of quasi-productivity demonstrating further potential, and no ability to afford the 25 year old version. Total waste. 

[Back2Buff]

12 hours ago, Chaos said:

Drafting too young is proving to be a bad strategy.  Three years of Edmunds in training, two years of quasi-productivity demonstrating further potential, and no ability to afford the 25 year old version. Total waste. 

 

Wow.  Edmunds made the pro bowl in his second and third years in NFL.  Heck of a three year training program.

 

Because Edmunds was so young going into FA, Bills are getting a 3rd round comp pick for a LB, who generally don't have large enough contracts to warrant a 3rd pick comp.

[Sherlock Holmes]

On 4/4/2023 at 9:29 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

It would be awesome if we got both.

 

 

 

He actually has pass rush moves also which makes him better than a blitzer.

 

He reminds of Milano but more explosive which id rather have two Milano's than another Edmunds.

 

 

I want both