Florida Property Insurance Global Warming

[KDIGGZ]

6 minutes ago, Wacka said:

Head for the hills? What hills in Florida?  I think the highest elevation in the state is like 100 feet and that is in the north.

True true. The point is if these Hollywood liberals believe this then why do so many of them live near water? Isn't the whole island of Manhattan going to be underwater soon? San Francisco? Those cities like liberal headquarters 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

50 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He's running for president, so what's his plan? 

I’m not sure, but while I appreciate Joe B trying, it’s clear that trueimpernaahionalloperseesionnon just doesn’t work these day. 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

46 minutes ago, sherpa said:

For what it's worth, I heard an interview with the guy who is going to be the head of the Florida State Legislature in 2023 last week.

He spoke extensively on this issue and stated they were going to address it in a comprehensive way as soon as they got in session.

 

The fact is that insurance companies don't want to do business there, and that has been going on for over a decade.

What they have done is dramatically raise rates to a point where nobody would accept, and then with no clients they could leave.

Anyway, this Florida insurance issue has been going on for a very long time. 

Sherp, I don’t know which interview you’re talking about, but insurance companies cannot just raise rates arbitrarily. State regulators must approve changes.   In fact, a few years back, Fla regulation prohibited a company from raising rates beyond an arbitrary percentage (10% maybe?) which had little to do with the rate that actually should be charged.  Some companies chose to leave the market as a result, Florida said good riddance, and within 2 or 3 years Citizens Insurance (the state option for coverage), needed a 50% rate increase. 
 

There are issues beyond regulation, and companies contribute to the challenges at times,  but artificially managing rates catches up in the long run. 
 

See, for example, Medicare.  The math can be figured out, the program funded, but no one really wants to pay for it. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

But is DeSantis on board to help try and deal with a big cause of the insurance problem, namely climate change? Or does he just want to pass. the buck, slap a bandaid (or other type of adhesive bandage) to the problem and move on? 

 

 

Please, please, please stop talking about topics you have no understanding. Insurance in Florida is out of control mainly due to litigation costs. Thankfully one law was recently passed that has outlawed Assignment of Benefits, which will make it more difficult for dishonest lawyers and Public Adjusters to make bank. We have also changed the law for who pays for the attorney, for the past 20 years it was any positive judgement meant the insurance company paid full legal fees, which is no longer the case. What this means is that if an insurance company offers $10k and the lawsuit requires $10,500 then the insurance company pays the whole legal fee. These two laws will have an impact, anything Tibs suggest about global warming is meaningless. 

[sherpa]

22 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Sherp, I don’t know which interview you’re talking about, but insurance companies cannot just raise rates arbitrarily. State regulators must approve changes.   In fact, a few years back, Fla regulation prohibited a company from raising rates beyond an arbitrary percentage (10% maybe?) which had little to do with the rate that actually should be charged.  Some companies chose to leave the market as a result, Florida said good riddance, and within 2 or 3 years Citizens Insurance (the state option for coverage), needed a 50% rate increase. 
 

 

I can't remember how he described what was going on but I do remember him stating that in 2019, about $75% of insurance litigation cases were from Florida, while the state only accounted for 8% of nationwide claims, and that 49 of the 52 carriers had losses between 2017 and 2021, and that the state run option, Citizens, was going broke. 

[Wacka]

37 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

These two laws will have an impact, anything Tibs suggest about global warming is meaningless. 

Anything Tibs  suggests about anything is meaningless.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Core and housing Inflation combined  forward inflation risk projection is the problem here… 

 

while at the same time the value of the protected assets are climbing the value of the future premium dollars collected are declining. To Insurance inflation is a double whammy. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[The Frankish Reich]

20 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

Please, please, please stop talking about topics you have no understanding. Insurance in Florida is out of control mainly due to litigation costs. Thankfully one law was recently passed that has outlawed Assignment of Benefits, which will make it more difficult for dishonest lawyers and Public Adjusters to make bank. We have also changed the law for who pays for the attorney, for the past 20 years it was any positive judgement meant the insurance company paid full legal fees, which is no longer the case. What this means is that if an insurance company offers $10k and the lawsuit requires $10,500 then the insurance company pays the whole legal fee. These two laws will have an impact, anything Tibs suggest about global warming is meaningless. 

Good comment. Thanks. I always appreciate when someone has some special insight to share on an issue. 
As far as assignment of claims: looking at it from a free market perspective, isn’t this generally a good thing? Example: a hurricane does $300000 damage to my home. I want to just say: enough. I’ve had it. I’m moving back to Buffalo. I assign my claim to some company, they pay me, what, $120000, I pack up what’s left and move on. I can buy a new house in Buffalo and get on with my life instead of sitting in some FEMA housing litigating my claim against the insurance company. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Good comment. Thanks. I always appreciate when someone has some special insight to share on an issue. 
As far as assignment of claims: looking at it from a free market perspective, isn’t this generally a good thing? Example: a hurricane does $300000 damage to my home. I want to just say: enough. I’ve had it. I’m moving back to Buffalo. I assign my claim to some company, they pay me, what, $120000, I pack up what’s left and move on. I can buy a new house in Buffalo and get on with my life instead of sitting in some FEMA housing litigating my claim against the insurance company. 

Doesn’t seem like free market principles are effective when it come to insurance does it?

 

not sure if it’s because of mandates, lack of frequency but with very large impact events that wildly perturb inflows and outflows, policy mandates or something else.
 

car insurance seems to be the exception.  

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

car insurance seems to be the exception.

On that point: we HAD no-fault auto insurance in Colorado. The auto accident trial (plaintiffs) lawyers lobbied like hell to get it repealed. It worked while we had it; now just pray you don’t get in an accident because it will because you’ll spend weeks trying to get a claim sorted out and paid. And that’s if you don’t need a lawyer. 
Meanwhile: My old dad was driving a rented RV in Canada. He backed it into a car. The Canadian driver went full Canadian on him - no worries, etc. “We have no fault insurance here. I’ll take care of it. Enjoy your vacation.”

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Good comment. Thanks. I always appreciate when someone has some special insight to share on an issue. 
As far as assignment of claims: looking at it from a free market perspective, isn’t this generally a good thing? Example: a hurricane does $300000 damage to my home. I want to just say: enough. I’ve had it. I’m moving back to Buffalo. I assign my claim to some company, they pay me, what, $120000, I pack up what’s left and move on. I can buy a new house in Buffalo and get on with my life instead of sitting in some FEMA housing litigating my claim against the insurance company. 

I am not sure if that exists in other states but it n Florida and AOB locks a customer into a company who "handles the claim." The issue is often the companies will intentionally mislead the insurance companies or insureds to drive up the cost. Insureds still only get covered for what was initially detailed in contract but all of these add one benefit just the company. It started off as a decent system but unscrupulous people realized they could make killing by getting people to sign quickly and then blow up the claim while causing insurance companies to pay for the legal expenses on both sides.

[Precision]

Old news but the Obama's aren't concerned about sea levels rising, 29 acres of waterfront on Martha's Vinyard.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Precision

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, Precision said:

Old news but the Obama's aren't concerned about see levels rising, 29 acres of waterfront on Martha's Vinyard.

 

 

 

Anyone that can go into public office and come out and live like this is sickening.  I don't care what side of the aisle you're on.  

[T master]

On 12/14/2022 at 9:48 AM, Tiberius said:

Republicans are using this situation to take away home owners rights to sue in court by making it too expensive for home owners to sue. Insurance rates are crazy in the state. 

DeSantis has nothing to offer about global warming, and its hitting  his state hard 

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/economy-business/2022-12-13/proposed-changes-florida-property-insurance-litigation-pushback

 

 

South Florida’s increasing flood and storm risks are pushing its insurance market to a breaking point, according to industry experts, who say what happens next will influence the decisions that real estate and business leaders make for years to come.

“It’s all happening now,” said Joseph Gendelman, president and CEO of Bruce Gendelman Insurance Services, which is based in West Palm Beach and provides risk assessment insurance services.

Gendelman has watched as a torrent of insurance companies have left or pulled back from Florida in recent months. He describes the situation as “a mess” and “on the verge of a crisis,” noting that for the first time in his 20-year career, he’s coming across clients and prospects that he simply can’t get insurance for.

 

https://www.law.com/dailybusinessreview/2022/08/29/its-a-big-problem-the-insurance-industry-is-the-harbinger-of-south-floridas-climate-change-risks/?slreturn=20221114104542

 

So then this is just like those living in Cali with all the wild fires & landslides during heavy rains and such ?

 

Or if you make a decision to move to Cali & don't take into consideration that the state is run by a bunch of political morons that can't balance their own check book then wonder why their tax structure is unaffordable & through the roof but you still decide to move there ??? Go Figure .

 

It's kind of like if you (as your own person) makes a decision to live some where that has a much higher rate of incidence when it comes to weather then you need to pay more because that is your personal decision to live there .

 

Like when you sign up for student loans & say you will pay them back or if you sign a note on a very high priced truck or if YOU as your own person decide to live at the base of a volcano then in your decision making YOU should take all that into consideration .

 

There is a old saying i have learned since i moved to the south "If your gonna be dumb you gotta be tough" so suck it up buttercup !!

 

If you don't like it MOVE !!! You are free to do so .

[Tiberius]

Just now, T master said:

 

So then this is just like those living in Cali with all the wild fires & landslides during heavy rains and such ?

 

Or if you make a decision to move to Cali & don't take into consideration that the state is run by a bunch of political morons that can't balance their own check book then wonder why their tax structure is unaffordable & through the roof but you still decide to move there ??? Go Figure .

 

It's kind of like if you (as your own person) makes a decision to live some where that has a much higher rate of incidence when it comes to weather then you need to pay more because that is your personal decision to live there .

 

Like when you sign up for student loans & say you will pay them back or if you sign a note on a very high priced truck or if YOU as your own person decide to live at the base of a volcano then in your decision making YOU should take all that into consideration .

 

There is a old saying i have learned since i moved to the south "If your gonna be dumb you gotta be tough" so suck it up buttercup !!

 

If you don't like it MOVE !!! You are free to do so .

Oh no! Let's it politicians to insure us against disaster and have government pay for everything! 

[SoCal Deek]

40 minutes ago, T master said:

 

So then this is just like those living in Cali with all the wild fires & landslides during heavy rains and such ?

 

Or if you make a decision to move to Cali & don't take into consideration that the state is run by a bunch of political morons that can't balance their own check book then wonder why their tax structure is unaffordable & through the roof but you still decide to move there ??? Go Figure .

 

It's kind of like if you (as your own person) makes a decision to live some where that has a much higher rate of incidence when it comes to weather then you need to pay more because that is your personal decision to live there .

 

Like when you sign up for student loans & say you will pay them back or if you sign a note on a very high priced truck or if YOU as your own person decide to live at the base of a volcano then in your decision making YOU should take all that into consideration .

 

There is a old saying i have learned since i moved to the south "If your gonna be dumb you gotta be tough" so suck it up buttercup !!

 

If you don't like it MOVE !!! You are free to do so .

There are people of every income level in California and the State actually ran a surplus last year. The cost of living is not the problem. That can be fixed, as you said, by picking up and moving….which is happening to some degree. The problem in California is that in an effort to play ecological and societal Robin Hood the state leadership has let the basic infrastructure crumble. The bill is going to come due and then the entire thing is going to collapse. 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

So then this is just like those living in Cali with all the wild fires & landslides during heavy rains and such ?

 

Or if you make a decision to move to Cali & don't take into consideration that the state is run by a bunch of political morons that can't balance their own check book then wonder why their tax structure is unaffordable & through the roof but you still decide to move there ??? Go Figure .

 

It's kind of like if you (as your own person) makes a decision to live some where that has a much higher rate of incidence when it comes to weather then you need to pay more because that is your personal decision to live there .

 

Like when you sign up for student loans & say you will pay them back or if you sign a note on a very high priced truck or if YOU as your own person decide to live at the base of a volcano then in your decision making YOU should take all that into consideration .

 

There is a old saying i have learned since i moved to the south "If your gonna be dumb you gotta be tough" so suck it up buttercup !!

 

If you don't like it MOVE !!! You are free to do so .

 

B word all you want about CA politics.  There is plenty to B word about trust me however not balancing the checkbook ain't one of them.  We had a surplus this past fiscal year.  I have no idea what they did with it but at least there was a surplus. 

[T master]

22 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

B word all you want about CA politics.  There is plenty to B word about trust me however not balancing the checkbook ain't one of them.  We had a surplus this past fiscal year.  I have no idea what they did with it but at least there was a surplus. 

 

From anything i've heard from those that live there is with the taxes being as high as they are they better be able to show something . I have no idea how people can survive paying what i saw with my own eyes $6.34 a gallon gas sorry but your not that special that they have to increase it that much .

 

And the homeless out there is a rampant disease it's sure not what it once was . You can bet or i should say it wouldn't surprise me if some of the cash went to some prominent politicians out there in some way shape or form, just saying - because none of them are hurting that's for sure .

 

You can make anything look good on paper some game plans look great until you implement them and see what the opposition brings to stop or slow you down . 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

On 12/15/2022 at 1:17 PM, The Frankish Reich said:

Good comment. Thanks. I always appreciate when someone has some special insight to share on an issue. 
As far as assignment of claims: looking at it from a free market perspective, isn’t this generally a good thing? Example: a hurricane does $300000 damage to my home. I want to just say: enough. I’ve had it. I’m moving back to Buffalo. I assign my claim to some company, they pay me, what, $120000, I pack up what’s left and move on. I can buy a new house in Buffalo and get on with my life instead of sitting in some FEMA housing litigating my claim against the insurance company. 

I’ve read this a couple times and still don’t understand what you’re saying.  
 

Your house is destroyed in S Florida, the damage is $300k and you get paid $120k…how?  The other $180k goes where?  Why wouldn’t the client take the $300k and just move back to Buffalo?  
 

 

[Chef Jim]

59 minutes ago, T master said:

 

From anything i've heard from those that live there is with the taxes being as high as they are they better be able to show something . I have no idea how people can survive paying what i saw with my own eyes $6.34 a gallon gas sorry but your not that special that they have to increase it that much .

 

And the homeless out there is a rampant disease it's sure not what it once was . You can bet or i should say it wouldn't surprise me if some of the cash went to some prominent politicians out there in some way shape or form, just saying - because none of them are hurting that's for sure .

 

You can make anything look good on paper some game plans look great until you implement them and see what the opposition brings to stop or slow you down . 

 

1.  Our income taxes may be higher but I'll compare our property taxes to NY's (and other states) and I imagine between the two we're lower overall.

2.  I use my Ralph's (Kroger) rewards card for my gas.  I get $.10 off per gallon for every $100 I spend.  I've gotten as much as $.70 off a gallon. Ralph's just opened a fueling station by our store.  It is $4.19 a gallon and with our rewards we're paying below $3 a gallon.

3.  Homeless is an issue everywhere.  It's horrible in places like SF and LA.  We just retired to the Palm Springs area and though there are homeless here it's nowhere near as bad as LA.  And with LA ***** with the Covid mandates I refuse to go there anyway. 

4.  CA has wonderful weather and incredible geography.  Where else can you ski in the morning and surf in the afternoon.  I've been here for 40 years and can't think of anyplace I'd rather live. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I’ve read this a couple times and still don’t understand what you’re saying.  
 

Your house is destroyed in S Florida, the damage is $300k and you get paid $120k…how?  The other $180k goes where?  Why wouldn’t the client take the $300k and just move back to Buffalo?  
 

 

 

They don't pay you for the damage of your home.  They pay you what it would cost to rebuild.  Often a big difference.  And after living in FL or CA who the ***** would want to move back to Buffalo???

Edited December 17, 2022 by Chef Jim