Jump to content

Dolphins @ Bengals - TNF Game Thread


Simon
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

I think your delusional about his arm strength.  

I think you’re delusional about how weak his arm is

 

His arm Is as strong as Jalen hurts going back to college

 

It’s not a howitzer but it’s not Matt Barkley weak

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Wrong.  You are labeling him like a franchise QB.  That alone puts him against at most 32 QBs.  Not all 110.

Where did I ever say he was a franchise quarterback? 
 

I said Tua is a talented kid who doesn’t have the durability to play in the league

 

That doesn’t sound like a franchise quarterback

 

hes talented … He’s not built to last in the NFL

Edited by Buffalo716
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

Medical professionals screw up all the time, especially when they are under pressure of time or other circumstances. We don't know the exact circumstances of the examination that went on last Sunday, but I can believe that for one reason or another the person involved screwed up.

 

I hope we will learn more. 

 

They do not screw up "all the time." In fact they screw up extremely rarely. Because if you screw up all the time you get struck off. I find it not credible that the independent neurologist, if he conducted an examination, screwed up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think you’re delusional about how weak his arm is

 

His arm Is as strong as Jalen hurts going back to college

 

It’s not a howitzer but it’s not Matt Barkley weak

Where did I ever say he was a franchise quarterback? 
 

I said Tua is a talented kid who doesn’t have the durability to play in the league

 

That doesn’t sound like a franchise quarterback

 

hes talented … He’s not built to last in the NFL

 

Ok he is talented.  So is everyone in the NFL.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Ok he is talented.  So is everyone in the NFL.

Not according to this board

 

Zack Moss isn’t even an NFL caliber running back to some here lol

 

And then I started arguing his arm strength because some people would make you believe He throws a football like Chase Daniel or kellen Moore… He doesn’t have a howitzer but his arm isn’t that weak

Edited by Buffalo716
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So you are saying you knew better from watching than the independent neurologist knew from an examination. 

 

Yea. I can't get myself to that place.

 

Yes. But you would still need Tua to have been diagnosed with a concussion. He wasn't.

 

You realize that the independent neurologist doesnt make the final call right?  The team doctor makes the final call.  The independent neurologist is just there to consult.

 

Quote

Added a third UNC who will monitor the broadcast video and audio feeds of each game from the spotters' booth, and notify on-field UNCs of possible head, neck or spine injuries.

 

Defined impact seizure and fencing responses as independent signs of potential loss of consciousness, representing "No-Go" criteria under the current Protocol. Players who display either of these signs at any time shall be removed from play and may not return to the game.

 

Required an evaluation for all players demonstrating gross motor instability (e.g., stumbling or falling to the ground when trying to stand) to determine the cause of the instability. If the team physician, in consultation with the sideline UNC, determines the instability to be neurologically caused, the player is designated a "No-Go" and may not return to play.

 

Yes I am saying they didnt do their job.  Many players, analysts, and other Neurologists share that opinion too so its not just me.

 

Any of this sound familiar?

 

Quote

Potential Concussion Signs (Observable)

Any loss of consciousness;

Impact seizure or "fencing" posture

Slow to get up following a hit to the head ("hit to the head" may include secondary contact with the playing surface);

Motor coordination/balance problems (stumbles, trips/falls, slow/labored movement);

Blank or vacant look;

Disorientation (e.g., unsure of where he is on the field or location of bench);

Amnesia, both anterograde and retrograde;

Clutching of head after contact; or

Visible facial injury in combination with any of the above.

 

 

The team physician makes the call not the independant.  Independant is just there to consult.  People are confused by this because its the independent that makes the call to return if the player was actually put in concussion protocol but not on gameday

 

Quote

A UNC shall be a physician who is impartial and independent from any Club, is board certified in neurology, emergency medicine, physical medicine and rehabilitation, or any primary care CAQ sports medicine certified physician or board eligible or board certified in neurological surgery, and has documented competence and experience in the treatment of acute head injuries. UNCs are appointed by the NFL Head, Neck and Spine Committee in consultation with the NFLPA Mackey-White Committee and approved by the NFL Chief Medical Officer and the NFLPA Medical Director, and have undergone formal UNC training provided by the NFL and NFLPA. At each game, each Club will be assigned a UNC to be present on its sideline who shall be: (i) focused on identifying signs or symptoms of concussion and mechanisms of injury that warrant concussion evaluation, (ii) working in consultation with the Head Team Physician or his/her designee to implement the concussion evaluation and management protocol (including the Locker Room Comprehensive Concussion Assessment Exam) during the games, and (iii) present to observe (and collaborate when appropriate with the team physician) the Sideline Concussion Assessment Exams performed by Club medical staff. The UNCs also will be available to assist in coordinating which physician will accompany a player who is transported to the EAP-designated trauma center for more advanced evaluation and treatment. The UNCs will work with the Club's medical staff and will assist in the diagnosis and care of the concussed player. The Club physician/UNC unit will be co-located for all concussion evaluations and management both on and off the field. The UNC may present his/her own questions or conduct additional testing and shall assist in the diagnosis and treatment of concussions. Regardless, the responsibility for the diagnosis of concussion and the decision to return a player to a game remains exclusively within the professional judgment of the Head Team Physician or his/her physician designee responsible for the diagnosis and treatment of concussion. A UNC will also be present for sideline evaluations for neuropraxia ("stingers" or "burners") and other potential spinal and peripheral nerve injuries.

 

 

They did not do their job period.  Anybody that watched that display of Tua grabbing his helmet, slow to get up, shaking his head, and GMI causing collapse to the ground knows this was not back muscles or legs which would be orthopedic where the head and spine is neurological.

 

Quote

"No-Go" Signs and Symptoms.

If a player exhibits or reports any of the following signs or symptoms of concussion, he must be removed immediately from the field of play and transported to the locker room. If a neutral sideline observer or a member of the player's club's medical team observes a player exhibit or receives a report that a player has experienced any of the following signs or symptoms, the player shall be considered to have suffered a concussion and may not return to participation (practice or play) on the same day under any circumstances:

 

Loss of Consciousness (including Impact Seizure and/or "fencing posture")

Gross Motor Instability (GMI), identified in the judgment of the club medical staff in consultation with the Sideline UNC, who observe the player's behavior, have access to the player's relevant history and are able to rule out an orthopedic cause for any observed instability

Confusion

Amnesia

 

 

Quote

For the avoidance of doubt, the responsibility for the diagnosis of concussion and the decision to return a player to a game remain exclusively within the professional judgment of the Head Team Physician or the Club physician designated as responsible for the diagnosis and management of concussion.

 

All of this was taken from the NFL's own website.

Edited by Scott7975
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So you are saying you knew better from watching than the independent neurologist knew from an examination. 

 

Yea. I can't get myself to that place.

 

Yes. But you would still need Tua to have been diagnosed with a concussion. He wasn't.

GunnerBill, it doesn't take a doctor to know Tua suffered a concussion in the Bills game. Scott is 100% correct! The doctors errored in their judgements and who knows why? That's the bottom line. I can definelty go there because the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable. Now let the cover up begin...

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think you’re delusional about how weak his arm is

 

His arm Is as strong as Jalen hurts going back to college

 

It’s not a howitzer but it’s not Matt Barkley weak

Where did I ever say he was a franchise quarterback? 
 

I said Tua is a talented kid who doesn’t have the durability to play in the league

 

That doesn’t sound like a franchise quarterback

 

hes talented … He’s not built to last in the NFL

I think it would be wise for him to retire. My 18 year old boy made a good observation. He said dad Tua throws off his back foot a lot.  His size and being off balance is going to result in moret hitting his head when tackled. 

Edited by newcam2012
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, newcam2012 said:

I think it would be wise for him to retire. My 18 year old boy made a good observation. He said dad Tua throws off his back foot a lot.  His size and being off balance is going to be subject to hitting his head when tackled. 

That is true

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Not according to this board

 

Zack Moss isn’t even an NFL caliber running back to some here lol

 

And then I started arguing his arm strength because some people would make you believe He throws a football like Chase Daniel or kellen Moore… He doesn’t have a howitzer but his arm isn’t that weak

You have yet to explain why his long ball throws in the NFL look terrible. Why he throws it so high? I don't see Tua as having a strong arm. Burrows and Hurts throw a much much smoother and tighter long ball. We've seen a big enough sample to say Tua's long ball is pretty bad. Perhaps it's mechanics. 

Edited by newcam2012
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You have yet to explain why his long ball throws in the NFL look terrible. Why he throws it so high? To me I don't see The as having a strong arm. Burrows and Hurts throw a much much smoother and tighter long ball than Tua. We've seen a big enough sample to say Tua's long ball is pretty bad. 

Burrow had a terrible deep ball his rookie year than got chase 


Joe Burrow literally couldn’t  start at Ohio State and I quote urban meyer… “ He throws like a girl”

 

Now players improve… But nobody ever said tua threw like a girl… He replaced Jalen hurts as a true freshman in the national championship game and won it with a 50 yard deep ball… A ball hurts wasn’t making at the time

 

Edited by Buffalo716
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You realize that the independent neurologist doesnt make the final call right?  The team doctor makes the final call.  The independent neurologist is just there to consult.

 

 

Yes I am saying they didnt do their job.  Many players, analysts, and other Neurologists share that opinion too so its not just me.

 

Any of this sound familiar?

 

 

 

The team physician makes the call not the independant.  Independant is just there to consult.  People are confused by this because its the independent that makes the call to return if the player was actually put in concussion protocol but not on gameday

 

 

 

They did not do their job period.  Anybody that watched that display of Tua grabbing his helmet, slow to get up, shaking his head, and GMI causing collapse to the ground knows this was not back muscles or legs which would be orthopedic where the head and spine is neurological.

 

 

 

All of this was taken from the NFL's own website.

 

I have said, repeatedly, that it is plausible that the process could have failed - that includes the Dolphins ignoring the neurologist. But as of this point nobody has brought forward any evidence to suggest that is what happened. 

 

If it is, then the NFL should throw the book at the Dolphins.

42 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

GunnerBill, it doesn't take a doctor to know Tua suffered a concussion in the Bills game. Scott is 100% correct! The doctors errored in their judgements and who knows why? That's the bottom line. I can definelty go there because the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable. Now let the cover up begin...

 

It isn't. He may well have suffered a concussion and there may well be a cover up because the Dolphins did something very silly. But if that is the case we need to see actual evidence. 

 

You can't definitely go there. You can have your opinion. We all can. He looked like he had suffered a concussion. But we need more than just the video of the collision with the ground to say it is indisputable.

Edited by GunnerBill
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Would everyone support a mandatory 1 week rest period after a concussion? 
 

 

 

No.  The system is clearly working.  

 

The Dolphins just gave it the finger last Sunday.

 

He was never put in the protocol because they knew that meant he would not have played last night being a short week.

 

 

Everyone there should be investigated.  All of them.  And Tyreek Hill should then be suspended for the year as punishment.  Since they lost all the draft picks they'd be stripped of to get him anyway.  I may or may not be serious here on that last part.  

Edited by Big Blitz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Burrow had a terrible deep ball his rookie year than got chase 


Joe Burrow literally couldn’t  start at Ohio State and I quote urban meyer… “ He throws like a girl”

 

Now players improve… But nobody ever said tua threw like a girl… He replaced Jalen hurts as a true freshman in the national championship game and won it with a 50 yard deep ball… A ball hurts wasn’t making at the time

 

You keep going back to Tua when he played un high school and college. That's really not relevant now. It's looking like maybe he was a very good or great college QB. I mean his supporting cast was second to none. Fast forward to the NFL and its pretty clear by most Tua isn't very good. Brian Flores refused to play him. A well respected coach even amount the players. That should speak volumes. The Dolphins were actively seeking Watson and Brady. That should speak volumes. The guy has woefully fallen short this far. He has literally the best 1-2 Wr combo in the league and still looks average at best. I suggest you get dismiss the HS and college Tua and focus on the NFL Tua. The NFL Tua is not what the Dolphins were looking for. The Tua pick is in line with the Josh Rosen pick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, newcam2012 said:

You keep going back to Tua when he played un high school and college. That's really not relevant now. It's looking like maybe he was a very good or great college QB. I mean his supporting cast was second to none. Fast forward to the NFL and its pretty clear by most Tua isn't very good. Brian Flores refused to play him. A well respected coach even amount the players. That should speak volumes. The Dolphins were actively seeking Watson and Brady. That should speak volumes. The guy has woefully fallen short this far. He has literally the best 1-2 Wr combo in the league and still looks average at best. I suggest you get dismiss the HS and college Tua and focus on the NFL Tua. The NFL Tua is not what the Dolphins were looking for. The Tua pick is in line with the Josh Rosen pick. 

Comparing tua to Rosen is hyperbole

 

One hasn’t even been able to play at a back up level… The other has 35 touchdowns to 18 interceptions in his career… 
 

And again I’m not saying tua is a great quarterback for the NFL

 

I’m talking pure arm strength which people said he has a noodle arm

 

Just because he doesn’t have a howitzer doesn’t mean it’s a noodle

 

And you can go back to his true freshman year of college to see he doesn’t have a noodle arm with the game-winning pass in the national championship game

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have said, repeatedly, that it is plausible that the process could have failed - that includes the Dolphins ignoring the neurologist. But as of this point nobody has brought forward any evidence to suggest that is what happened. 

 

If it is, then the NFL should throw the book at the Dolphins.

 

It isn't. He may well have suffered a concussion and there may well be a cover up because the Dolphins did something very silly. But if that is the case we need to see actual evidence. 

 

You can't definitely go there. You can have your opinion. We all can. He looked like he had suffered a concussion. But we need more than just the video of the collision with the ground to say it is indisputable.

We need more evidence on whether there was a cover up and why he was allowed to play. Where we disagree is whether Tua suffered a concussion and why he was allowed to play. No one can convince me he wasn't concussed and he passed protocols. That's an assumption I'm willing to make based on the evidence I saw. Maybe this will help. You look outside before you go to sleep and the ground is clear and you can see the concrete. In the morning you wake up and the ground is covered with snow. It's pretty safe to say it snowed last night. What you are saying is wait maybe someone bought a snow machine and it really didn't snow. We need to investigate it. 

5 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

 

Nah I wouldn't go that far. Tua has had his struggles but not even close to anything near being in line with the Rosen pick

You are probably right here. 

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Comparing tua to Rosen is hyperbole

 

One hasn’t even been able to play at a back up level… The other has 35 touchdowns to 18 interceptions in his career… 
 

And again I’m not saying tua is a great quarterback for the NFL

 

I’m talking pure arm strength which people said he has a noodle arm

 

Just because he doesn’t have a howitzer doesn’t mean it’s a noodle

 

And you can go back to his true freshman year of college to see he doesn’t have a noodle arm with the game-winning pass in the national championship game

I can say with reasonable validity that his arm isn't anything special in the NFL. In fact, it appears to be more inadequate strength wise than an asset. For whatever that's worth. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

So you are saying you knew better from watching than the independent neurologist knew from an examination. 

 

Myself, no, but several neurological experts have chimed in on Twitter and said that he should not have played on Thursday after the injury he suffered against us. There is supposed to be certain "no-go" symptoms that keep a player out regardless of the independent consultant's opinion. Staggering and looking woozy after hitting his head by all accounts should be considered a no-go symptom. My understanding is that there is no objective way for the independent consultant to verify for sure if the player in question has a concussion. The symptoms are subjective and the protocol is easy to fake. That's why objective symptoms such as what Tua showed are supposed to keep a player out. Again this isn't my opinion, this is what I've read from actual experts on Twitter.

 

That being said I would not be surprised at all if the Dolphins did in fact technically follow the protocol to the letter and therefore protected themselves from repercussions. Ethically I don't agree with them sending Tua back in - frankly I think it is disgusting - but the NFL can't ascribe punishments subjectively like that. The protocol needs to be clearer. Players are always going to want to get back on the field. They have to protect the players from themselves.

 

If Tua did in fact have a concussion against us and another one yesterday, it is the closest the NFL has come in a long time to a really serious issue of public confidence in the league. He could have suffered a TBI or worse. It didn't happen this time but the NFL has to do everything in their power to make sure that risk never comes up again.

 

Also **** the Dolphins.

 

Edited by HappyDays
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

We need more evidence on whether there was a cover up and why he was allowed to play. Where we disagree is whether Tua suffered a concussion and why he was allowed to play. No one can convince me he wasn't concussed and he passed protocols. That's an assumption I'm willing to make based on the evidence I saw. Maybe this will help. You look outside before you go to sleep and the ground is clear and you can see the concrete. In the morning you wake up and the ground is covered with snow. It's pretty safe to say it snowed last night. What you are saying is wait maybe someone bought a snow machine and it really didn't snow. We need to investigate it. 

 

 

That is not a relevant metaphor because I am saying if we are being told a neurologist cleared him - and to be clear, we are - then I believe that neurologist because to screw this up would have major consequences for him. They make those sorts of mistakes incredibly rarely.

 

If it later turns out that in fact the neurologist did not clear him and the Dolphins put him out there then that is a different story. 

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Comparing tua to Rosen is hyperbole

 

One hasn’t even been able to play at a back up level… The other has 35 touchdowns to 18 interceptions in his career… 
 

And again I’m not saying tua is a great quarterback for the NFL

 

I’m talking pure arm strength which people said he has a noodle arm

 

Just because he doesn’t have a howitzer doesn’t mean it’s a noodle

 

And you can go back to his true freshman year of college to see he doesn’t have a noodle arm with the game-winning pass in the national championship game

You are probably right, but I base that upon the accuracy and touch he demonstrates in short to medium passes in the NFL. If you do that well, you can soften up a defense for deep shots. It's what Brady has done for decades.

 

That said, I don't care what he did in college. Devonta Smith made Mac Jones look like he has elite arm talent. Alabama's receivers are so much faster than college DBs that all the QBs have to do is get it there.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a very specific reason to revive this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...