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Remaining Roster Battles


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26 minutes ago, HiMark said:

All true about Keenum, but a guy can get old.  We may have to look waiver wire for #2, but Barkley has at least earned PS consideration, and is forcing the question with Keenum. 

 

We have literally no clue how he is being graded. He's throwing timing routes to spots on the field. They had backup receivers against the colts starting dbs.

 

Really good chance the bills receivers couldn't get off press and hit their spots in time and Keenum was making anticipation throws to the right spot, at the right time based on his reads. Or he was forced to hold it longer because guys were not hitting their markers and the pocket would collapse or the window would be gone.

 

He is not Josh Allen who can excel in that situation playing outside of the system, but does not mean he cannot be highly effective within the system. Basing his value with a third string OL and basically a ST only receiver playing in the #2 spot. He looked pretty good throwing to Shakir, who I would think was the only starting WR getting consistent separation early in the game and hitting his routes, though will wait for people to analyze the all-22.

 

Really want to see what Hodgins looks like against #1 cbs...his release off the line on that deep catch was twitchy as heck!

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think you are pretty much correct.... my only quibbles would be I'm not sure OJ Howard is a total lock. I think the Bills want him to be, and the contract would suggest it but boy, oh boy, he does not look impressive at all. I don't like it but I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that Sweeney retains that 2nd spot and Howard is cut. Remember the whole Jacob Hollister thing? We all presumed he was nailed on as the 2nd guy and he got cut.

 

I also don't think 9 DL is a total lock, though I agree that it is very likely given their history. But if Shaq doesn't seal that job they might feel comfortable that at least two of Love, Bryant and Ankou could be snuck through to the PS and then activated on gamedays if required? Maybe they even feel Shaq might make it to the PS? So I extend your defense question to Cam Lewis vs Spector vs 9th DL (2 out of 3 make it). I think this decision comes down to who is easier to sneak through to PS and while they have managed that with Cam Lewis the last two years, I fear he might get picked up off waivers now mainly because he can play inside / outside and last year he played 35% of the Bills special teams snaps. I could imagine a bottom feeder team looking at that versatility and saying "worth the risk."

 

As for the "final 4" as you have termed it.... I think Jones is pretty close to being locked in and then it comes down again to who you feel good about sneaking onto the PS - I think you feel good about Blackshear and Morris getting there so they miss the 53. Then Austin is out unless he wins the returner job (anyone know why he didn't play on Saturday? Is he injured?) so it comes down to the three receivers and Sweeney and one of them misses out. TBH if I was picking it'd be Sweeney, I just think he is a marginal NFL talent and we lack depth at outside receiver so I'd be willing to roll the dice on Hodgins. 

 

 

I don’t know. 
Everyone is saying that Jones is a lock. 
and I realize that McD said he was an elite gunner. 
Was. 
 

Guy is 34 years old and has averaged 5 tackles per year the past 4 seasons with the Bills. 
 

And yes, I realize that you can’t assess his real worth just by tackles on ST. But I watched all22 of his games last year and wasn’t impressed. And he took a really dumb penalty in an important game last year
  

It wouldn’t surprise me if he gets cut in favor of younger blood. 

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2 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

I don’t know. 
Everyone is saying that Jones is a lock. 
and I realize that McD said he was an elite gunner. 
Was. 
 

Guy is 34 years old and has averaged 5 tackles per year the past 4 seasons with the Bills. 
 

And yes, I realize that you can’t assess his real worth just by tackles on ST. But I watched all22 of his games last year and wasn’t impressed. And he took a really dumb penalty in an important game last year
  

It wouldn’t surprise me if he gets cut in favor of younger blood. 

 

So I do think he took a slight step back last year, and age catches up to us all in the end but before last year he was absolutely elite. He was still very good last year.

 

The fact he was a protected player on Saturday makes me think the Bills have already decided he is here. He didn't play a single snap in pre-season last year and was on the roster. Feels like the same approach. 

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36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I do think he took a slight step back last year, and age catches up to us all in the end but before last year he was absolutely elite. He was still very good last year.

 

The fact he was a protected player on Saturday makes me think the Bills have already decided he is here. He didn't play a single snap in pre-season last year and was on the roster. Feels like the same approach. 


I understand your point but I think the coaching staff wanted to look at other gunners. They already have an idea what Jones can do. 
 

it’s a cruel world. But how many 34 yo gunners - or other speed positions- like CB- are in the league?

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32 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:


I understand your point but I think the coaching staff wanted to look at other gunners. They already have an idea what Jones can do. 
 

it’s a cruel world. But how many 34 yo gunners - or other speed positions- like CB- are in the league?

 

People said the same "trying out other guys" thing last year. You know how many of the pre-season hold outs they cut last year? Zero. When this regime sits a guy in the pre-season it is generally because that guy is locked in. Before Saturday I thought Jones was 60/40 to make the roster. I am at 95/5 now.

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4 hours ago, Airseven said:

Remaining roster battles:

DE Lawson v Love

DT Phillips v Bryant

LB Matakevich v Spector

QB Keenum v Barkley

RB Duke v Jones

WR Kumerow v Hodgins

TE Sweeney v trade

OL Ford v Tenuta

 

Almost none of those are actual battles. If you think they’re cutting Phillips for Brandin Bryant you’re nuts. Or Lawson for a 5 year practice squad player who has never gotten a sniff from anyone. Phillips didn’t even play in the first game, which is typically a sign that he’s getting kept. Maybe your last three could happen, but Keenum, Lawson, Phillips, Matakevich, and Jones will be on this team.

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22 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

They did this with someone else not that long ago. I can't remember who though. Cut them early, then signed them to PS later.

Maybe he was too far down the pecking order to get a lot of looks thru camp. I just don't see O.J. either staying healthy or making an impact, I hope I'm wrong. I also had hopes for Sweeney, I guess we'll see for sure this year which way his trajectory will go. I believe he will have a chance at some point. I hope he gets the bulk of TE duty during one of these pre season games.

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53 minutes ago, njbuff said:

What are the chances Allen gets cut if Keenan plays well against the Broncos?🙃

 

Why cut him?  Beane got a pick for Tyrod Taylor.  Im sure he could get a couple 3rd rounders for Allen.  Daboll would probably trade him straight up for Saquan.

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7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think you are pretty much correct.... my only quibbles would be I'm not sure OJ Howard is a total lock. I think the Bills want him to be, and the contract would suggest it but boy, oh boy, he does not look impressive at all. I don't like it but I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that Sweeney retains that 2nd spot and Howard is cut. Remember the whole Jacob Hollister thing? We all presumed he was nailed on as the 2nd guy and he got cut.

 

I also don't think 9 DL is a total lock, though I agree that it is very likely given their history. But if Shaq doesn't seal that job they might feel comfortable that at least two of Love, Bryant and Ankou could be snuck through to the PS and then activated on gamedays if required? Maybe they even feel Shaq might make it to the PS? So I extend your defense question to Cam Lewis vs Spector vs 9th DL (2 out of 3 make it). I think this decision comes down to who is easier to sneak through to PS and while they have managed that with Cam Lewis the last two years, I fear he might get picked up off waivers now mainly because he can play inside / outside and last year he played 35% of the Bills special teams snaps. I could imagine a bottom feeder team looking at that versatility and saying "worth the risk."

 

As for the "final 4" as you have termed it.... I think Jones is pretty close to being locked in and then it comes down again to who you feel good about sneaking onto the PS - I think you feel good about Blackshear and Morris getting there so they miss the 53. Then Austin is out unless he wins the returner job (anyone know why he didn't play on Saturday? Is he injured?) so it comes down to the three receivers and Sweeney and one of them misses out. TBH if I was picking it'd be Sweeney, I just think he is a marginal NFL talent and we lack depth at outside receiver so I'd be willing to roll the dice on Hodgins. 

 

 


I agree - I could see 8 DL - especially as I think Von wants more snaps.  I think that frees Boogie to play inside and out and essentially acts as either spot and I think there are 4 potential guys that can go to the PS - even if 1 gets picked up - you have options.

 

I think they go DB heavy and keep Lewis also and use Benford as a game day inactive when Tre is healthy (and Tre as an inactive if he is not ready).

 

I also think Spector makes it and then at game 6 they will have to decide on Smith - if everyone is healthy.  If someone is dinged up - you have options when he clears the suspension.

 

The offensive side is where it gets fun.  With Lewis playing gunner (and Neal) it gives a spot where maybe Kumerow can be let go and you keep Crowder and Hodgins as WRs.

 

I have also said the TE position to me is where the RB picks will hinge.  If they go 2 TEs (my choice is Knox and Morris, but it could be Sweeney or Howard) - then Gilliam is more of a H-Back/TE and maybe opens up the spot for Blackshear.  Especially if you use Doyle as the blocking TE.  
 

I could see 2 QB, 2TE, 9OL, 6WR, 1FB/TE, and 5 RBs with both Cook and Blackshear splitting out to aid the WRs as needed.

 

Then the D-side going speed heavy 8 DL (Von included), 6 LBs, 7 CBs, and 4 Safeties.

 

You basically replace Kumerow with Lewis as ST gunner.

 

That leaves your 3 specialists and you are there.  
 

GameDay you can sit Benford (or White), Spector, Blackshear, Crowder/Hodgins, and Moss if everyone is healthy or if someone is hurting switch it up.

 

 

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5 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

 

Really want to see what Hodgins looks like against #1 cbs...his release off the line on that deep catch was twitchy as heck!


 

I agree his release was sweet and he blew past the guy.  My issue with Hodgins is after blowing past the guy - he lacked the speed to put him away.  The CB caught up and made it a contested catch. 
 

The throw made it so Hodgins never had to slow down and he just could not outrun a 3rd/4th string DB.

 

I am hoping Hodgins makes the team and I want him to grow, but there are flaws that could keep him out.

 

The same goes to Blackshear - I want him to be on the roster, but he is at best a #5 RB on a low rising team - I can see a path, but I can also understand choosing someone else.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

I agree his release was sweet and he blew past the guy.  My issue with Hodgins is after blowing past the guy - he lacked the speed to put him away.  The CB caught up and made it a contested catch. 
 

The throw made it so Hodgins never had to slow down and he just could not outrun a 3rd/4th string DB.

 

I am hoping Hodgins makes the team and I want him to grow, but there are flaws that could keep him out.

 

The same goes to Blackshear - I want him to be on the roster, but he is at best a #5 RB on a low rising team - I can see a path, but I can also understand choosing someone else.

 

 

 

You might be right, but I disagree. I think he kept the db where he could continue to feel him with his off arm and maintain enough contact to prevent the db from getting a step inside and having a chance to make a play on the ball.

 

Kind of like a box out in basketball. Only chance the defender had to make a play on the ball would have been by going through Hodgins and committing PI.

 

Think of it this way, he ended up having to dive to make the catch, but he waited for the last second to get that separation. That was a lofted arcing pass, and even with slowing down he only had to dive a little bit. If he doesn't slow down to ultimately get the separation at the end, the db, and especially a starting db meets the ball at the high point and likely knocks it out of his hands. In my mind,  the only way he could have prevented that from happening was to slow down, and use his off hand to get a bit of separation and then dive. .

 

Allen throws him into the endzone on more of a line and allows him to run full speed away from the db.

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29 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

I agree his release was sweet and he blew past the guy.  My issue with Hodgins is after blowing past the guy - he lacked the speed to put him away.  The CB caught up and made it a contested catch. 
 

The throw made it so Hodgins never had to slow down and he just could not outrun a 3rd/4th string DB.

 

I am hoping Hodgins makes the team and I want him to grow, but there are flaws that could keep him out.

 

The same goes to Blackshear - I want him to be on the roster, but he is at best a #5 RB on a low rising team - I can see a path, but I can also understand choosing someone else.

 

 

Blackshear could be our returner.  And he probably will be a beast at special teams.  Versatility is valued high, and it makes sense.  Versatilty frees up roster spots

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2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Blackshear could be our returner.  And he probably will be a beast at special teams.  Versatility is valued high, and it makes sense.  Versatilty frees up roster spots

 

That’s what I saw too.  Cut and go, no dancing.

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5 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

You might be right, but I disagree. I think he kept the db where he could continue to feel him with his off arm and maintain enough contact to prevent the db from getting a step inside and having a chance to make a play on the ball.

 

Kind of like a box out in basketball. Only chance the defender had to make a play on the ball would have been by going through Hodgins and committing PI.

 

Think of it this way, he ended up having to dive to make the catch, but he waited for the last second to get that separation. That was a lofted arcing pass, and even with slowing down he only had to dive a little bit. If he doesn't slow down to ultimately get the separation at the end, the db, and especially a starting db meets the ball at the high point and likely knocks it out of his hands. In my mind,  the only way he could have prevented that from happening was to slow down, and use his off hand to get a bit of separation and then dive. .

 

Allen throws him into the endzone on more of a line and allows him to run full speed away from the db.

 

That WAS Hodgins at full speed. 

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7 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

You might be right, but I disagree. I think he kept the db where he could continue to feel him with his off arm and maintain enough contact to prevent the db from getting a step inside and having a chance to make a play on the ball.

 

Kind of like a box out in basketball. Only chance the defender had to make a play on the ball would have been by going through Hodgins and committing PI.

 

Think of it this way, he ended up having to dive to make the catch, but he waited for the last second to get that separation. That was a lofted arcing pass, and even with slowing down he only had to dive a little bit. If he doesn't slow down to ultimately get the separation at the end, the db, and especially a starting db meets the ball at the high point and likely knocks it out of his hands. In my mind,  the only way he could have prevented that from happening was to slow down, and use his off hand to get a bit of separation and then dive. .

 

Allen throws him into the endzone on more of a line and allows him to run full speed away from the db.


I hear what you are saying, but I think that was Hodgins at full speed.  For example - if that had been Davis with that sweet move at the line and the separation he created - Barkley has to put the ball a couple of yards farther down field and that DB never gets close.

 

Hodgins just does not have the foot speed - he is slick off the line and runs great routes, but he does not increase separation in route and by the time the ball is there the DB will catch up.

 

It is not a bad thing for a #5 WR - it just is not ideal in a #1 or #2.  Most of his catches are going to end up box out, go up and get it and if he can do that great .  He was smooth and I think there is use for that, but as a team they need to know what they are getting.  

Edited by Rochesterfan
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5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


I hear what you are saying, but I think that was Hodgins at full speed.  For example - if that had been Davis with that sweet move at the line and the separation he created - Barkley has to put the ball a couple of yards farther down field and that DB never gets close.

 

Hodgins just does not have the foot speed - he is slick off the line and runs great routes, but he does not increase separation in route and by the time the ball is there the DB will catch up.

 

It is not a bad thing for a #5 WR - it just is not ideal in a #1 or #2.  Most of his catches are going to end up box out, go up and get it and if he can do that great .  He was smooth and I think there is use for that, but as a team they need to know what they are getting.  

 

Yep. He wasn't a seperator in college. It just isn't who he is. There is no 5th or 6th gear. 

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3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


I hear what you are saying, but I think that was Hodgins at full speed.  For example - if that had been Davis with that sweet move at the line and the separation he created - Barkley has to put the ball a couple of yards farther down field and that DB never gets close.

 

Hodgins just does not have the foot speed - he is slick off the line and runs great routes, but he does not increase separation in route and by the time the ball is there the DB will catch up.

 

It is not a bad thing for a #5 WR - it just is not ideal in a #1 or #2.  Most of his catches are going to end up box out, go up and get it and if he can do that great .  He was smooth and I think there is use for that, but as a team they need to know what they are getting.  


 

 

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. He wasn't a seperator in college. It just isn't who he is. There is no 5th or 6th gear. 

 

yeah, I rewatched it, agree I don’t think he had time to do anything other than just run. 

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