Coach Tuesday Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Handful of solid games and Harrison is an "anchor for years" now? But those idiot fans with their premature declarations... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: And yet in another way it's far too early to declare Phillips a "cornerstone" of anything. He's come on in the second half of this season. Before that he was in danger of losing his job. It's still far from clear he can sustain his current level of play nor is it a sure thing that he'll remain a starter even if they bring him back next year. Absolutely. It is what makes his contract situation so interesting. You have to decide if the last month is the new normal or if it is just a burst of good play that will soon regress to the mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Absolutely. It is what makes his contract situation so interesting. You have to decide if the last month is the new normal or if it is just a burst of good play that will soon regress to the mean. Either way I don't think he'll be too expensive if they want to keep him on a team-friendly deal. His skills aren't too valuable on the open market - it's not like he came on late with a bevy of sacks or INTs, for example. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He has this year. Without a single question. Over his 3 years it remains a fair point, his 2nd season in particular was a disappointment. This year, and certainly since about week 5, he has played like a top 10 pick. EDIT: @Coach Tuesday is right. I don't think Harrison has yet done enough to be discussed in the same category as Ed Oliver. Harrison has played well for a month after nearly two seasons of a lot of below average play with occasional flashes. I am hopeful this is a sign of things to come and I would now be interested in trying to keep him (whereas a month ago I'd have happily let him walk) and I have suggested the sort of deal I'd offer him in the separate thread on his future. But Ed's consistency this season (which was always his issue before) has been very impressive and he is in a different conversation to Phillips for me. Yea after his play this season he's definitely one of the best 32 players selected in the the 2019 draft and I would argue top 16, which doesn't put him far off where he was selected. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 26 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said: Yea after his play this season he's definitely one of the best 32 players selected in the the 2019 draft and I would argue top 16, which doesn't put him far off where he was selected. Agree. His numbers are comparable to quinnen Williams (who is very good) on pro football reference. Would like to see some rate data from PFF of the two as though Ed has played more games he might have played similar number of snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) Interior lineman always take longer than other positions to hit their stride, so I've learned to keep my mouth shut until these dudes have a couple of years under their belts. But still, as a top-10 pick, I think we were all hoping Oliver would be more of an immediate plug-and-play gamechanger, so I understood some of the negativity towards him over the years. I'm glad the staff stayed patient with him and Harry, and we are reaping the benefits now as they've grown into a nice tandem on the interior. Hopefully, we see the same type of growth over the next two years from our gestating edge rushers. Edited January 6, 2022 by TheBrownBear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17islongenough Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Handful of solid games and Harrison is an "anchor for years" now? This is how he was trending before he got hurt in the Bengals game in 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, 17islongenough said: This is how he was trending before he got hurt in the Bengals game in 2019 so he was trending good 2 years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said: Yea after his play this season he's definitely one of the best 32 players selected in the the 2019 draft and I would argue top 16, which doesn't put him far off where he was selected. Great point. Anyone crying about Oliver's draft position needs to go look at the rest of that 2019 draft and the 1st round selections that came after him. There was no better pick to make, even in hindsight. If it were me, I'm definitely picking up Oliver's 5th year option. And I'm looking to bring Harry back at a nice, team-friendly deal. I'm guessing we could get Harry re-signed for less than $5M/year (maybe even more like $1-2M). Considering we're paying Butler $7.5M, that's a good deal. Edited January 6, 2022 by DrDawkinstein 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: Great point. Anyone crying about Oliver's draft position needs to go look at the rest of that 2019 draft and the 1st round selections that came after him. There was no better pick to make, even in hindsight. I'd argue for one - Brian Burns is exactly the sort of bendy, explosive edge rusher we still lack. He was my #2 choice for our pick on the day as well. My #1 was Ed Oliver. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I'd argue for one - Brian Burns is exactly the sort of bendy, explosive edge rusher we still lack. He was my #2 choice for our pick on the day as well. My #1 was Ed Oliver. Yeha, he might be the only one, and it is DL, but not that presence in the middle we were looking for at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Working for that money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Just now, ScottLaw said: It’s eballs signature… premature declarations and jumps the gun on everything. ...in order to yell at fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Absolutely. It is what makes his contract situation so interesting. You have to decide if the last month is the new normal or if it is just a burst of good play that will soon regress to the mean. 54 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Either way I don't think he'll be too expensive if they want to keep him on a team-friendly deal. His skills aren't too valuable on the open market - it's not like he came on late with a bevy of sacks or INTs, for example. Butler gets $7M (way too much), and Zimmer makes $800k. I'd think we could sign Harry well under $3M. Maybe even $1M/yr. Would be totally worth it at those prices. 3yr/$6M, out after 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Butler gets $7M (way too much), and Zimmer makes $800k. I'd think we could sign Harry well under $3M. Maybe even $1M/yr. Would be totally worth it at those prices. 3yr/$6M, out after 2 years. I'd be surprised if he accepts that. Especially before testing the market. If that is our pitch he will his FA. He might get no better offers and then come back to us for that. I think to sign him pre-FA it would be $3.5-4.5m per I think but structured in such a way as it is team friendly to exit. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 hours ago, eball said: …who have established themselves this year as (edit) potential cornerstones of the Bills’ D. Per usual, the armchair idiots who called both guys busts have once again been proven wrong. Different players have different timelines to become acclimated to the NFL (and Harry had to overcome a significant injury). I look forward to a new contract for Phillips and watching both of these guys anchor the DL for years to come. When will fans learn? Probably never. Epenesa and Basham are busts, probably Rousseau too.... 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 4 hours ago, eball said: …who have established themselves this year as (edit) potential cornerstones of the Bills’ D. Per usual, the armchair idiots who called both guys busts have once again been proven wrong. Different players have different timelines to become acclimated to the NFL (and Harry had to overcome a significant injury). I look forward to a new contract for Phillips and watching both of these guys anchor the DL for years to come. When will fans learn? Probably never. Ed Oliver? Lmfao. Guy can’t carry Jeff Simmons bag to field. the expectations here are so low it’s laughable. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 23 minutes ago, McBean said: Ed Oliver? Lmfao. Guy can’t carry Jeff Simmons bag to field. the expectations here are so low it’s laughable. I am sorry this year that just is not true. Ed Oliver has been outstanding. No knock on Simmons and career to date Simmons has outperformed him, but purely on this year alone it is very close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 25 minutes ago, McBean said: Ed Oliver? Lmfao. Guy can’t carry Jeff Simmons bag to field. the expectations here are so low it’s laughable. Ed is a better pass rusher. Currently #6 in win rate for DT. Simmons isn’t in the top 10. Simmons is better than Ed (but not harry) in the run game but to say he can’t carry his bag is pretty hyperbolic. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings?platform=amp 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am sorry this year that just is not true. Ed Oliver has been outstanding. No knock on Simmons and career to date Simmons has outperformed him, but purely on this year alone it is very close. Simmons took a minute to get going honestly. His production has really taken off this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 hour ago, McBean said: Ed Oliver? Lmfao. Guy can’t carry Jeff Simmons bag to field. the expectations here are so low it’s laughable. Wow everyone is really on-brand in this sorry thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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