Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-women-selling-nudes-raise-money-troops-2022-6

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-women-selling-nudes-raise-money-troops-2022-6

 

 

They should go back to cat fishing horny Russian soldiers, then geo-locating their tinder profiles for artillery strikes. 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:58 AM, JDHillFan said:

Crippling sanctions!!

Well look at what happened to your model government! Your hero putin had to default, lol. 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Trump's buddy the terrorist Putin with another genius move

 

 

[JDHillFan]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Well look at what happened to your model government! Your hero putin had to default, lol. 

 

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/27/economy/russia-debt-default-sanctions/index.html

 

Still, it took longer than many had expected: Sanctions have largely failed to cripple Russia's economy, as surging energy prices have padded the country's coffers.

Meanwhile, Russia's currency has soared to a seven-year high against the US dollar.

 

When does the crippling part begin? Shouldn’t it have all been over by now? Do you have any expectation for when it might be over? The Ukrainian people are suffering. 

 

 

[Tiberius]

18 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/27/economy/russia-debt-default-sanctions/index.html

 

Still, it took longer than many had expected: Sanctions have largely failed to cripple Russia's economy, as surging energy prices have padded the country's coffers.

Meanwhile, Russia's currency has soared to a seven-year high against the US dollar.

 

When does the crippling part begin? Shouldn’t it have all been over by now? Do you have any expectation for when it might be over? The Ukrainian people are suffering. 

 

 

So you have no clue about the importance of the bond market I guess. Sure seems that way 

[JDHillFan]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So you have no clue about the importance of the bond market I guess. Sure seems that way 

You should write an angry letter to CNN for publishing that pro-Putin crap. They are obviously fascists. And possibly ignorant of how bond markets work. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 12/5/2021 at 9:42 AM, All_Pro_Bills said:

Other than Sevastopol in Crimea Russia has no strategic interest in Ukraine other than discouraging NATO from expanding and housing troops in the country.  It's all posturing right now.  On both sides.  NATO is trying to pretend it is still relevant and Russia is bluffing a build-up to assess the West's response strategy in the event something "hot" starts.

 

Can anyone clearly articulate the US security interest here?  Absent any patronizing talk about supporting democracy.  Can you find Ukraine on a map without the country names shown?  

Bump this... 😆 

[B-Man]

                       

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

Very optimistic thread, interesting, too 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

Another Biden win against fascism 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Sure, no problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

Looks like Joke's idiotboy son will be employed for life after daddy leaves office...

[ChiGoose]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Sure, no problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

$87,000,000,000: NATO's monthly budget

$5,000,000,000: Monthly cost to grind the Russian army to shreds

 

Sounds good to me. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by ChiGoose

[Coffeesforclosers]

On 6/27/2022 at 1:03 PM, ExiledInIllinois said:

Bump this... 😆 

 

Hey, his statement makes perfect sense...if you ignore everything Russia said when they thought they would win in four days. 

[dpberr]

You have to ask yourself why the US is sending two battalions of the 101st to Poland, one of which is the headquarters batallion. The 101st is offensive capability. They aren't peacekeepers. 

 

Destroyers to Spain, F-35s to England. Feels like positioning to me in bits and pieces, under the radar so nobody gets spooked and drives oil prices higher. 

 

I don't put it past these fools to engage in real conflict with Russian troops in Ukraine - if Kyiv is in imminent danger of collapse, I could see NATO entering the war. 

 

Ukraine isn't just Biden's mess. It's been a Bush, Obama, Trump mess too. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by dpberr

[ExiledInIllinois]

13 minutes ago, dpberr said:

You have to ask yourself why the US is sending two battalions of the 101st to Poland, one of which is the headquarters batallion. The 101st is offensive capability. They aren't peacekeepers. 

 

Destroyers to Spain, F-35s to England. Feels like positioning to me in bits and pieces, under the radar so nobody gets spooked and drives oil prices higher. 

 

I don't put it past these fools to engage in real conflict with Russian troops in Ukraine - if Kyiv is in imminent danger of collapse, I could see NATO entering the war. 

 

Ukraine isn't just Biden's mess. It's been a Bush, Obama, Trump mess too. 

Well... At least Clinton is out of picture.  The Republicans blamed him for everything.

 

Clinton Bad!

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, dpberr said:

You have to ask yourself why the US is sending two battalions of the 101st to Poland, one of which is the headquarters batallion. The 101st is offensive capability. They aren't peacekeepers. 

 

Destroyers to Spain, F-35s to England. Feels like positioning to me in bits and pieces, under the radar so nobody gets spooked and drives oil prices higher. 

 

I don't put it past these fools to engage in real conflict with Russian troops in Ukraine - if Kyiv is in imminent danger of collapse, I could see NATO entering the war. 

 

Ukraine isn't just Biden's mess. It's been a Bush, Obama, Trump mess too. 

You don't send Peacekeepers to deter aggression.  The Screaming Eagles though, they tend to get their point across.  The point of NATO is to deter Russian aggression against NATO members.

 

Poland asked for and is getting a permanent US base.  Which makes sense because Poland is a NATO member, Russia invades its neighbors for no reason, and because Eastern Europe has a long, long history of being sold down the river by Western Europe whenever the words "War" and "Russia" pop up. People forget that 1/3 of Poland's population died or was murdered in World War II.  Poland is afraid Russia will attack, because Russia has said over, and over, and over again that they want to rebuild the USSR/Russian Empire, whether their old territories want to come back into the fold or not. They've also said over, and over, and over again the reason they want their Empire back is to break up the global order we created after WWII.  I like it when my country has more power and influence, rather than less, so I think Russian success is a bad thing.

 

I don't put it past Russia to pick a fight with NATO, because Russia has been saying so repeatedly for months. Since Russia only respects power, we've got to meet threat of force with threat of force. Biden's been really good about actually standing up to Putin and making him put his cards on the table.  He's still a one-term president.

 

Your last point though...I couldn't agree more.  Any real statesman would have seen through Russia's BS and called their bluff years ago. Instead we had three administrations get their lunch money taken by Putin's bluffing because...well who the ***** knows.  

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[Tiberius]

Wow!! Hope this is true 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Ukraine: Russia pulls back forces from Snake Island. 

“Russia claimed the move was a ‘goodwill gesture’ to allow the export of Ukrainian agricultural products. Meanwhile, fighting intensified in Lysychansk, in the Donbas region.”

 

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-russia-pulls-back-forces-from-snake-island-live-updates/a-62309716

 

 

 

 

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 29.

 

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-29

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

Honestly, is there anybody posting in this thread that thinks Russia deserves to win?

 

And if there isn't, what the ***** are we arguing about?

 

Hell, "What the ***** are we arguing about?" might be the single most important question in modern America. Right after "Why the ***** are we even arguing?" 

[JDHillFan]

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by JDHillFan
Additional info added

[All_Pro_Bills]

21 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

Honestly, is there anybody posting in this thread that thinks Russia deserves to win?

 

And if there isn't, what the ***** are we arguing about?

 

Hell, "What the ***** are we arguing about?" might be the single most important question in modern America. Right after "Why the ***** are we even arguing?" 

Hey! That's a great yet simple question.  I'll go out on a limb here and say there's not a single person on this topic rooting for Russia to win.  Everybody is on the side of the Ukrainians. 

 

But as is customary, there is contention nonetheless.

 

My short list of arguments here are:

 

1. Disagreements on how involved the US should be.  From doing nothing, sending weapons & support somewhere in the middle, to all out nuclear exchange with Russia if necessary to save "democracy".

2. What's the US interest here?  Does it matter whether Ukraine is aligned with the US, Russia, or independent.

3. The characterization of Ukraine as a fledgling democracy on one end to the other end where its a corrupt oligopoly.

4. The ever present Trump connection

    a. Can any or all of this be blamed on Trump.

    b. The never ending Russia collusion connection hoax or reality debate. 

    c. Making excuses and deflecting any responsibility for consequences from Biden.

  

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Bad news (if true)

 

UKRAINE WAR: Ukraine’s military withdraws from Lysychansk as Russia claims control — as it happened.

 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has confirmed that his forces have withdrawn from Lysychansk, the last holdout city in the eastern Luhansk region.

In his nightly video address, he vowed to restore control over the area thanks to the prospect of new, improved weaponry.

 

“If the commanders of our army withdraw people from certain points at the front, where the enemy has the greatest advantage in fire power, and this also applies to Lysychansk, it means only one thing,” Zelenskyy said.

 

“That we will return thanks to our tactics, thanks to the increase in the supply of modern weapons.”

 

Moscow said earlier Sunday that Luhansk was now under Russian control after the seizure of Lysychansk.

 

Russian forces can now concentrate on the neighboring Donetsk region, where Kyiv still controls swathes of territory.

 

Losing Lysychansk is a much bigger deal than forcing the Russians off Snake Island last week.

 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-military-withdraws-from-lysychansk-as-russia-claims-control-as-it-happened/a-62340445

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

 

[JDHillFan]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

Putin is insane. Doesn’t he realize the effects of the crippling sanctions? 

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, JDHillFan said:

Putin is insane. Doesn’t he realize the effects of the crippling sanctions? 

 

Russia's economy is a split picture. On the one hand, theyre a huge raw material exporter, and we're in the middle of a huge commodity/energy boom.

 

On the other hand, their manufacturing sector, specifically for motor vehicles, appliances and infrastructure is collapsing. While the Duma is passing laws forcing companies to service military vehicles for free, and forcing workers to work extra hours with no pay. Plus inflation. Plus the dramatic decrease in electronics, namely chips and processors they have access to.

 

You'd rather not be Russia right now, all things considered. Its not like we need anything they provide either. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

Say what you want…but ya have to admit that’s a really impressive room. I doubt they watch TV in there…or are allowed to eat off TV trays. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Russia's economy is a split picture. On the one hand, theyre a huge raw material exporter, and we're in the middle of a huge commodity/energy boom.

 

On the other hand, their manufacturing sector, specifically for motor vehicles, appliances and infrastructure is collapsing. While the Duma is passing laws forcing companies to service military vehicles for free, and forcing workers to work extra hours with no pay. Plus inflation. Plus the dramatic decrease in electronics, namely chips and processors they have access to.

 

You'd rather not be Russia right now, all things considered. Its not like we need anything they provide either. 

 

 

A problem is sanctions have created conditions for our "allies" in Europe that are far worse.  Add in pushing a "green" agenda that is inappropriate for the immediate challenges of the present the sanctions have magnified and you've got a lot of disagreement.  Although they're being fed the same "this is the price for democracy" line we are by Biden, my expectation is they crap out from bad political, social, and economic conditions before Russia.   

 

I think the fundamental problem faced by Western governments is the concerns and issues of the large majority of their citizens and those of their representatives in government are completely out of alignment.  And governments are saying tough horse crap just deal with it and the people are saying FU to the government and becoming increasing uncooperative and are ready and willing to boot their asses out of office in the next election cycle.    

[Coffeesforclosers]

3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

A problem is sanctions have created conditions for our "allies" in Europe that are far worse.  Add in pushing a "green" agenda that is inappropriate for the immediate challenges of the present the sanctions have magnified and you've got a lot of disagreement.  Although they're being fed the same "this is the price for democracy" line we are by Biden, my expectation is they crap out from bad political, social, and economic conditions before Russia.   

 

I think the fundamental problem faced by Western governments is the concerns and issues of the large majority of their citizens and those of their representatives in government are completely out of alignment.  And governments are saying tough horse crap just deal with it and the people are saying FU to the government and becoming increasing uncooperative and are ready and willing to boot their asses out of office in the next election cycle.    

 

If we took nuclear power seriously, we wouldn't be in this mess, but thats just me bitching. 

 

I cant speak for other people. But so far we've spent $7.3 billion to help Ukraine. That cash, which is about 1/2 of the sticker price of the USS Gerald R. Ford, has helped kill 30,000 Russian soldiers, destroy or capture 1300 tanks and APCs, sink a guided missile cruiser, and shoot down hundreds of jets and helicopters. Its the best RoI on defense spending we've had in decades. And all to help beat up a country that said two days ago they want to invade Alaska.  Aka somebody who's got it coming.  Without the loss of 1 single American soldier, ship, tank or plane. If Joe Biden can't sell that, he deserves to be tossed out. 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[All_Pro_Bills]

On 7/8/2022 at 4:47 PM, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

If we took nuclear power seriously, we wouldn't be in this mess, but thats just me bitching. 

 

I cant speak for other people. But so far we've spent $7.3 billion to help Ukraine. That cash, which is about 1/2 of the sticker price of the USS Gerald R. Ford, has helped kill 30,000 Russian soldiers, destroy or capture 1300 tanks and APCs, sink a guided missile cruiser, and shoot down hundreds of jets and helicopters. Its the best RoI on defense spending we've had in decades. And all to help beat up a country that said two days ago they want to invade Alaska.  Aka somebody who's got it coming.  Without the loss of 1 single American soldier, ship, tank or plane. If Joe Biden can't sell that, he deserves to be tossed out. 

 

If the goal is weakening Russia through a proxy war in Ukraine, then mission accomplished to this point for the American Empire.  But for American the country, not so much.  That $7.3B is just a small part of the cost.  What about the lives of Ukrainian civilians and soldiers that have been lost?  What's the dollar value of that? Destruction of cities and towns.  Refugees and people being displaced from their homes.  While the dead can't speak, I expect the living would have a different perspective on money well spent.  Beyond the political leadership and powerful oligarchs, the majority of Ukrainians facing this experience firsthand might disagree with your assessment of money well spent.   

 

What about the cost to Americans?  If you buy Biden's alibi of Putin's inflation its costing US consumers about $2 a gallon more for gas which amounts to some $5.3 Billion a week.  $21B a month.  That doesn't even include the cost of diesel for the transportation industry, truck, rail, ship.  The strategic petroleum reserve getting drained with no impact on prices.  And costs at the grocery store.  Cheerful monthly job numbers aside, rising weekly unemployment claim numbers, and surely layoffs to come soon,     

 

What about the rest of the world?  Huge increases in food prices, food shortages, riots, destabilizing governments.  Higher costs for fertilizers and agricultural.  Disruptions to world trade and commerce.  Europe on the brink of economic disaster.  Germany about to get its gas supply shut off.  If this thing drags on the prospects of millions freezing and starving to death this winter around the world. 

 

And on the other side.  Russia receiving more than ever before for its oil and gas exports.  With lots of countries around the world looking to ditch the US dollar after seeing assets seized and frozen upon decree.  Just 1/4 of the world's countries supporting sanctions.  Alternate trade and settlement systems being used to circumvent the use of the US dollar.  Why is that important?  Because the power and privilege provided by the US dollar reserve system is the fundamental and key to America's power. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[Doc]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:44 AM, Tiberius said:

 

 

Good one, Vlad. 

[B-Man]

 

 

The U.S. Has Now Spent More in Ukraine Than in the First 5 Years in Afghanistan

 

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2022/07/10/the-u-s-has-now-spent-more-in-ukraine-than-in-the-first-5-years-in-afghanistan-n1611747

 

 

 

 

[ALF]

Fallout NYC? New York City releases PSA on what to do in nuclear attack or incident

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-psa-nuclear-attack-fallout

 

Well just in case Putin

[SoCal Deek]

Are we done with Biden’s “small incursion” yet? It’s really hard to tell after five months.