Josh Allen 2022 season verdict... OC & DC let him down: 64.5% comp %, 51 TDs, 18 TOs, 97.9 Passer Rating, 313 YPG (offseason assessments page 46 on)

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

58 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Their RBs are very good, but their blockers aren’t as good as they’re supposed to be due to injury.  Last year their running game was bolstered by 3 all pros. This year, those 3 all pros have been hurt most of the year or are on another team.  Look at the names of their OL that I listed.  Is that a good line? Do you think 21st in the nfl in rushing is a strong running game?  23rd in yards per carry strong?  25th in rushing td per game strong?  No.  It’s not strong.  I was strong…… that’s my point.  Their OL hasnt been very good this year. 

you are correct they’re not as efficient as last year. But some of those numbers are still misleading. We’re talking about the value of running backs in the running game correct?
 

So look at the bills for instance. they rank 11th but Josh Allen accounts for 41 of the 120 yards per game rushing the bills get on the ground. So take away Allen and the bills are only putting up 80 yards per game on the ground.  Compare that to green bay where Rogers is rushing for a career low 6 yards per game. Their 21st in the league ranking has them at 106 yards per game. But they are getting nearly all of those yards, 100 of them in fact, from just the running backs.

 

No doubt though they’re not as good this year. So you may be correct about the line. But I guess my overall point is Rogers benefits from a better running game two years in a row now. Just not as great a benefit this year.

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

you are correct they’re not as efficient as last year. But some of those numbers are still misleading. We’re talking about the value of running backs in the running game correct?
 

So look at the bills for instance. they rank 11th but Josh Allen accounts for 41 of the 120 yards per game rushing the bills get on the ground. So take away Allen and the bills are only putting up 80 yards per game on the ground.  Compare that to green bay where Rogers is rushing for a career low 6 yards per game. Their 21st in the league ranking has them at 106 yards per game. But they are getting nearly all of those yards, 100 of them in fact, from just the running backs.

 

No doubt though they’re not as good this year. So you may be correct about the line. But I guess my overall point is Rogers benefits from a better running game two years in a row now. Just not as great a benefit this year.

I’m talking about a lot of things.  Mainly that AR has been the best player on the best team this season to date.  He’s ridiculous playing the position. 
 

Just because it’s better than ours, doesn’t mean it’s good.  It hasn’t been good this season.  Rodgers makes their run game because the defenses are scared of him.  The holes aren’t nearly what they were last year.  

 

so if your point is that Rodgers has a better running game than allen, I agree.  Our run game is pathetic.  Most run games are better than ours.  
 

If your point is that Rodgers is the mvp over allen (or anyone else) because he has a better run game than the bills…..well, lol.  I have a better run game than the bills.
 

if your point is that Rodgers run game is one of the reasons he’s the mvp, I disagree 💯.  Their run game isn’t that good.  AR is that good.  
 
Or if I missed on your point, what is it?
 

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I’m talking about a lot of things.  Mainly that AR has been the best player on the best team this season to date.  He’s ridiculous playing the position. 
 

Just because it’s better than ours, doesn’t mean it’s good.  It hasn’t been good this season.  Rodgers makes their run game because the defenses are scared of him.  The holes aren’t nearly what they were last year.  

 

so if your point is that Rodgers has a better running game than allen, I agree.  Our run game is pathetic.  Most run games are better than ours.  
 

If your point is that Rodgers is the mvp over allen (or anyone else) because he has a better run game than the bills…..well, lol.  I have a better run game than the bills.
 

if your point is that Rodgers run game is one of the reasons he’s the mvp, I disagree 💯.  Their run game isn’t that good.  AR is that good.  
 
Or if I missed on your point, what is it?
 

 

I disagree that their run game isn’t that good. They got blown out by a physical run offense in San Fran and picked up Dillon, who most people hated as a pick, and he is the PERFECT runner for a great QB because he punishes defenders.

 

If Dillon beats you to a spot, he is going to run through you. Defenders have to cheat one way or another. Now of course, he isn’t an all time runner like Henry or Taylor so he isn’t always effective, but he wears down defenses over the course of a game. I think this is the reason we have tried to force Moss so much into the lineup, because he seeks contact and is physical in a similar way but he just isn’t as good. 
 

None of this is to say that Rodgers isn’t following the Brady path of somehow playing BETTER with age. He’s been nasty.

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I disagree that their run game isn’t that good. They got blown out by a physical run offense in San Fran and picked up Dillon, who most people hated as a pick, and he is the PERFECT runner for a great QB because he punishes defenders.

 

If Dillon beats you to a spot, he is going to run through you. Defenders have to cheat one way or another. Now of course, he isn’t an all time runner like Henry or Taylor so he isn’t always effective, but he wears down defenses over the course of a game. I think this is the reason we have tried to force Moss so much into the lineup, because he seeks contact and is physical in a similar way but he just isn’t as good. 
 

None of this is to say that Rodgers isn’t following the Brady path of somehow playing BETTER with age. He’s been nasty.

cool. 
 

The rbs on our terrible run offense- Moss(4) and motor (4) have 8 rushing TDs.  4.18 ypc.  Motor is 4.6- moss 3.5

Jones(4) and Dillon (3) have 7 rushing TDs.  4.34 ypc.  Jones 4.4 Dillon 4.1

 

AR has 3.  josh has 4. 
 

is their running game really THAT much better than ours?  They have better RBs who are more capable of making a great individual play than our RBs are.  I just don’t think their run blocking has been above average this season. Jmo
 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by NewEra

[transplantbillsfan]

12 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Ok.  Now watch as Aaron Rodgers wins MVP again and the rest of you complain that Allen was "robbed".

 

Even after missing a game, Rodgers and Allen have very similar stats, but Rodgers has less turnovers, has led his team to a better record and right now sit as the #1 seed in the NFC.  Their strength of schedules are also near identical.

 

No rose-colored glasses here.  Josh has played well, but a few missteps along the way are going to cost him MVP unless the Packers and Bucs falter these last 2 weeks, which doesn't look likely.

 

Everything I've stated here is true.  You don't have to agree.

 

 

Okay hang on.

 

Backwards logic here. Do you see it? You're adjusting Rodgers being out for a game in one direction for all the good stats and another direction for the bad stat.

 

To be clear, Allen has almost 1,000 more yards than Rodgers. So that stat is not similar 

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

You'd vote for Josh beasue you're a homer like most commenting in here. 

 

If the roles were reversed and Rodgers was awarded MVP over Allen, with a worse record, more turnovers and some awful losses, there'd be a 20 page thread on how Josh got screwed and the NFL hates the Bills.

 

Ha. I don't get called a homer very often on this board so I suppose I should take it as a compliment? 

 

Aaron Rodgers will win MVP because it is actually a "best player in the league" award. I wasn't really disputing that. I was saying in the truest meaning of the words the two most valuable players for their teams have been Allen and Taylor and in a muddy year where there is no clear frontrunner I would look that way rather than the obvious "who is Quarterbacking the team with the best record in the league?" I will also say Rodgers is benefitting from playing his stinker week 1. That is a long time ago and people have forgotten about it. If that Saints game was last week he would not be the MVP front runner IMO. Doesn't mean Rodgers hasn't had another excellent season overall, but I don't think there has been a slam dunk best player in the league so personally I'd go back to the normal English meaning of the words most valuable.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Okay hang on.

 

Backwards logic here. Do you see it? You're adjusting Rodgers being out for a game in one direction for all the good stats and another direction for the bad stat.

 

To be clear, Allen has almost 1,000 more yards than Rodgers. So that stat is not similar 

 

In fairness to him Rodgers just doesn't throw picks. It is incredible how few he throws for a Quarterback who makes so many aggressive throws. In his last 46 games he has only 13 INTs. Which means he throws a pick about every 3 and a half games. Not sure that quite equates to adjusting down based on 1 game missed. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’m talking about a lot of things.  Mainly that AR has been the best player on the best team this season to date.  He’s ridiculous playing the position. 
 

Just because it’s better than ours, doesn’t mean it’s good.  It hasn’t been good this season.  Rodgers makes their run game because the defenses are scared of him.  The holes aren’t nearly what they were last year.  

 

so if your point is that Rodgers has a better running game than allen, I agree.  Our run game is pathetic.  Most run games are better than ours.  
 

If your point is that Rodgers is the mvp over allen (or anyone else) because he has a better run game than the bills…..well, lol.  I have a better run game than the bills.
 

if your point is that Rodgers run game is one of the reasons he’s the mvp, I disagree 💯.  Their run game isn’t that good.  AR is that good.  
 
Or if I missed on your point, what is it?
 

 

 

His run game is better than Allen’s. Allens is that bad as you noted. It puts more unneeded pressure on a QB then one should have.

 

I honestly didn’t realize they were not as good as last year. Never looked the numbers up until now. Assumed they were around the same. Every time I tune into the Packers they seem to be running well.  But again, the numbers are a bit skewed. Rodgers isn’t really running at all this year so their rankings are several spots better than where they are when just taking into account non QB rushing yards and averages. But yeah still not as good as last year. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I do hope the media makes a big stink about Allen leading the league in both total Td’s and total yards should he achieve that feat. It could happen as soon as this Sunday too.

 

I’m almost certain if he led the league in passing yards and passing TD’s he would be talked about as an MVP candidate. But for some reason the media has been slow to recognize total yards and total TDs for QB’s. 

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In fairness to him Rodgers just doesn't throw picks. It is incredible how few he throws for a Quarterback who makes so many aggressive throws. In his last 46 games he has only 13 INTs. Which means he throws a pick about every 3 and a half games. Not sure that quite equates to adjusting down based on 1 game missed. 

 

Would you agree the poster adjusted up for yards?

[Ray Stonada]

Josh is the literal most valuable player to his team.

 

Rodgers is incredible to watch though, just drops balls perfectly in buckets from anywhere.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Would you agree the poster adjusted up for yards?

 

I think he certainly suggested that you should take into account one fewer game when comparing yardage. I don't think he actually adjusted up unless I missed that.

40 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said:

Josh is the literal most valuable player to his team.

 

Rodgers is incredible to watch though, just drops balls perfectly in buckets from anywhere.

 

Yep. I still think Rodgers is the best player in the league and that is generally who wins the MVP. But as you say on a literal interpretation of the words "most valuable" well I don't think that is Rodgers this year. 

[Son of a K-Gun]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I do hope the media makes a big stink about Allen leading the league in both total Td’s and total yards should he achieve that feat. It could happen as soon as this Sunday too.

 

I’m almost certain if he led the league in passing yards and passing TD’s he would be talked about as an MVP candidate. But for some reason the media has been slow to recognize total yards and total TDs for QB’s. 

Unless your name is Lamar.

[Chandler#81]

Pretty sure it was announced yesterday that Rogers has won it back to back. It doesn’t diminish Allen’s performance.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Yep. I still think Rodgers is the best player in the league and that is generally who wins the MVP. But as you say on a literal interpretation of the words "most valuable" well I don't think that is Rodgers this year. 

It's an interesting debate because nobody relies more on their QB than the Bills.  Rodgers to me is still the most valuable though.  Buffalo has the better defense and the Packers are pry about to wrap up the #1 seed.  The Packers put up seven points in KC when Rodgers caught Covid.  His only terrible game was the opener and 33 TD's to 4 INT's are incredible numbers.  Allen's just had too many bad games by his standard (Steelers, first Fins game arguably, Jaguars, Colts) to be ranked above Rodgers at this point.  Now if Allen won the close games against the Titans and Bucs it would be a completely different conversation.

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's an interesting debate because nobody relies more on their QB than the Bills.  Rodgers to me is still the most valuable though.  Buffalo has the better defense and the Packers are pry about to wrap up the #1 seed.  The Packers put up seven points in KC when Rodgers caught Covid.  His only terrible game was the opener and 33 TD's to 4 INT's are incredible numbers.  Allen's just had too many bad games by his standard (Steelers, first Fins game arguably, Jaguars, Colts) to be ranked above Rodgers at this point.  Now if Allen won the close games against the Titans and Bucs it would be a completely different conversation.

 

I think @ KC (and they still moved the ball in that game, finishing was an issue) is a tough game to use to prove the concept personally. 

 

To me most valuable should not always just mean "best" although I understand that often it does. 

[HOUSE]

Josh is my MVP, why should I care about anything else ?

[DCOrange]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

He’s been the best player in the league all season.  He’s 12-2 has 33 TDs and FOUR ints.  All the other Mvp candidates have 11+ Ints.  He lost his all pro LT and LG (and his all pro C from last year).  He has no TE and only 1 WR that would be considered better than good.  Adams and 3 jags.  He has the crutch of having an great RB tandem….but RBs are only as good as their blockers. These have been his blockers for most of the season LT->RT Yosh Nijman, Jon Runyan, Lucas Patrick, Royce Newman, bill Turner.  Meanwhile brady has a monster OL, 3 all pro WRs, an all pro TE plus 2 other good TEs + 2 very good RBs.  Rodgers is has been the best player in the league and I don’t think it’s really that close. Hate him or not

You lose me a bit by saying Green Bay’s supporting cast is mostly JAGs and then saying guys like OJ Howard and Ronald Jones are very good, but no doubt Brady has a better supporting cast overall (though they’ve dealt with a lot of injuries this year). At any rate, Rodgers is definitely more deserving than Brady in my mind. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

You lose me a bit by saying Green Bay’s supporting cast is mostly JAGs and then saying guys like OJ Howard and Ronald Jones are very good, but no doubt Brady has a better supporting cast overall (though they’ve dealt with a lot of injuries this year). At any rate, Rodgers is definitely more deserving than Brady in my mind. 

I should’ve been more specific.  Oj Howard is a very good TE3 and Jones is a very good backup.  Talented players in backup roles.  
 

 

[Doc]

While Rodgers' running game isn't what it was last year, that doesn't mean that teams are any less concerned with it.  Does the Bills' running game strike fear into anyone?