It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[TSOL]

Alot of people dont want to cede this kind of control of our lives to the government.

 

Alot of people want to make the decision to get the shot on their own terms, not because they are forced to do so by an intrusive mandate 

[ALF]

FDA vaccine advisers vote to recommend booster doses of Covid-19 vaccine in people 65 and older and those at high risk

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/health/fda-vrbpac-booster-meeting/index.html

Edited September 17, 2021 by ALF

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, TSOL said:

Alot of people dont want to cede this kind of control of our lives to the government.

 

Alot of people want to make the decision to get the shot on their own terms, not because they are forced to do so by an intrusive mandate 

It would be ideal if everyone would band together, care about their neighbor, and do what they can to get through the pandemic.  But unfortunately it has become political for some dumb reason.

 

Vaccine mandates are not new in any way.  Should we now say forget measles vaccines and such?  

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It would be ideal if everyone would band together, care about their neighbor, and do what they can to get through the pandemic.  But unfortunately it has become political for some dumb reason.

 

Vaccine mandates are not new in any way.  Should we now say forget measles vaccines and such?  

Not this argument again..

 

What happens if you get vaccinated for MMR?

 

….You don’t get MMR

 

And those vaccines have a long history.  Not everyone is willing to take a new vaccine for a virus they aren’t afraid of because you say so.  
 

If you’re vaccinated, stop worrying about everyone else.  We can get back to normal when your powers that be allow it… those of us in red states are already pretty close to free, and have been so for a while.  
 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by SCBills

[TSOL]

15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It would be ideal if everyone would band together, care about their neighbor, and do what they can to get through the pandemic.  But unfortunately it has become political for some dumb reason.

 

Vaccine mandates are not new in any way.  Should we now say forget measles vaccines and such?  

 

 

This is all very very new some of us want to take our time first. Thats all. Not political. Not for me at least. 

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Not this argument again..

 

What happens if you get vaccinated for MMR?

 

….You don’t get MMR

 

And those vaccines have a long history.  Not everyone is willing to take a new vaccine for a virus they aren’t afraid of because you say so.  
 

If you’re vaccinated, stop worrying about everyone else.  We can get back to normal when your powers that be allow it… those of us in red states are already pretty close to free, and have been so for a while.  
 

 

Yes, this argument because vaccinations have been shown to be the most effective means of dealing with viral outbreaks.

 

Data.  Vaccinated people are less likely to become infected, less likely to infect others, and way less likely to become sick or die.  
 

Basic virology.  Viruses can only replicate by entering cells and using the cell’s machinery.  Vaccines traditionally stop viruses from doing that, thus virus can’t replicate, thus the amount of virus in the environment goes down, thus likelihood of infection and/or mutation goes down.  This is basic stuff that scientists have know for decades if not centuries, such as when George Washington had his soldiers inoculated for smallpox.  Some vaccines are more susceptible to vaccine development like measles, some are resistant like HIV and some are in the middle like Covid.

 

New vaccine:  the mRNA vaccine technology has been researched for decades.  Earlier I showed you that long term side effects of vaccines are extremely rare, and that they usually show up within weeks.  Covid vaccines have months of use with extraordinarily rare side effects.  The benefit of vaccination far outweighs any supposed risk.  And if you want a more “traditional” vaccine the J&J is there.

 

These are the facts.  Why do you insist on being so stubborn and not accept them?  Saying you want to be free in red states really means you want to play Russian roulette with people’s lives.  But then I guess when you die that’s the ultimate freedom.

4 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

This is all very very new some of us want to take our time first. Thats all. Not political. Not for me at least. 

What specifically is so new that you are worried?  I think I can alleviate your concern if you could express your apprehension.

Edited September 17, 2021 by oldmanfan

[TSOL]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes, this argument because vaccinations have been shown to be the most effective means of dealing with viral outbreaks.

 

Data.  Vaccinated people are less likely to become infected, less likely to infect others, and way less likely to become sick or die.  
 

Basic virology.  Viruses can only replicate by entering cells and using the cell’s machinery.  Vaccines traditionally stop viruses from doing that, thus virus can’t replicate, thus the amount of virus in the environment goes down, thus likelihood of infection and/or mutation goes down.  This is basic stuff that scientists have know for decades if not centuries, such as when George Washington had his soldiers inoculated for smallpox.  Some vaccines are more susceptible to vaccine development like measles, some are resistant like HIV and some are in the middle like Covid.

 

New vaccine:  the mRNA vaccine technology has been researched for decades.  Earlier I showed you that long term side effects of vaccines are extremely rare, and that they usually show up within weeks.  Covid vaccines have months of use with extraordinarily rare side effects.  The benefit of vaccination far outweighs any supposed risk.  And if you want a more “traditional” vaccine the J&J is there.

 

These are the facts.  Why do you insist on being so stubborn and not accept them?  Saying you want to be free in red states really means you want to play Russian roulette with people’s lives.  But then I guess when you die that’s the ultimate freedom.

What specifically is so new that you are worried?  I think I can alleviate your concern if you could express your apprehension.

 

 

Im going to test my natural immunity for myself, thats all 

Edited September 17, 2021 by TSOL
Sp

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes, this argument because vaccinations have been shown to be the most effective means of dealing with viral outbreaks.

 

Data.  Vaccinated people are less likely to become infected, less likely to infect others, and way less likely to become sick or die.  
 

Basic virology.  Viruses can only replicate by entering cells and using the cell’s machinery.  Vaccines traditionally stop viruses from doing that, thus virus can’t replicate, thus the amount of virus in the environment goes down, thus likelihood of infection and/or mutation goes down.  This is basic stuff that scientists have know for decades if not centuries, such as when George Washington had his soldiers inoculated for smallpox.  Some vaccines are more susceptible to vaccine development like measles, some are resistant like HIV and some are in the middle like Covid.

 

New vaccine:  the mRNA vaccine technology has been researched for decades.  Earlier I showed you that long term side effects of vaccines are extremely rare, and that they usually show up within weeks.  Covid vaccines have months of use with extraordinarily rare side effects.  The benefit of vaccination far outweighs any supposed risk.  And if you want a more “traditional” vaccine the J&J is there.

 

These are the facts.  Why do you insist on being so stubborn and not accept them?  Saying you want to be free in red states really means you want to play Russian roulette with people’s lives.  But then I guess when you die that’s the ultimate freedom.

What specifically is so new that you are worried?  I think I can alleviate your concern if you could express your apprehension.

Im pretty sure the vaccine will end up being shown to be safe both short term, and long term, relatively speaking.   I just never felt I needed it.  I’ve never gotten a flu vaccine.  I have low body fat. I take vitamins.  I exercise regularly.   And now, I’ve recently had covid and recovered.   Think it’s awesome that people who want it can get it though.  
 

The only rational argument I have heard, throughout these past 18 months was short term lockdowns in the beginning, and then getting vaccinated if you’re at risk, to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.
 

We now have an available vaccine, as well as therapeutics.   It’s time to move on.   This virus has shown to be cyclical, so that needs to be prepared for… (looking at the NE).  The SE was high in infections and hospitalizations for the past two months.   We are now seeing it dissipate here.  The largest hospital system in Florida announced a few days ago they are in green - signifying they are out of any cautionary levels.    My moms hospital in metro Atlanta, has had to deny transfers from smaller hospitals due to ICU covid patients… they are now seeing that dissipate.  
 

Id prefer that people at risk get vaccinated. From everything I’ve seen, it’s very rare that healthy people under 65 are being admitted with serious covid issues… it happens, but it’s rare… it’s typically unvaxxed people that have a chart showing they were very vulnerable to this happening.   However, I would never mandate they get this vaccine.  Nobody has given me rational reasoning as to why that’s necessary.  
 

The primary rage reasoning from the left is to “get back to normal”… except we can, just demand those you elected to allow it.  Stop letting them scapegoat others when they are the only ones punishing you.  
 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by SCBills

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

Im going to test my natural immunity for myself, thats all 

I hope you’ll be OK.

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im pretty sure the vaccine will end up being shown to be safe both short term, and long term, relatively speaking.   I just never felt I needed it.  I’ve never gotten a flu vaccine.  I have low body fat. I take vitamins.  I exercise regularly.   And now, I’ve recently had covid and recovered.   Think it’s awesome that people who want it can get it though.  
 

The only rational argument I have heard, throughout these past 18 months was short term lockdowns in the beginning, and then getting vaccinated if you’re at risk, to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.
 

We now have an available vaccine, as well as therapeutics.   It’s time to move on.   This virus has shown to be cyclical, so that needs to be prepared for… (looking at the NE).  The SE was high in infections and hospitalizations for the past two months.   We are now seeing it dissipate here.  The largest hospital system in Florida announced a few days ago they are in green - signifying they are out of any cautionary levels.    My moms hospital in metro Atlanta, has had to deny transfers from smaller hospitals due to ICU covid patients… they are now seeing that dissipate.  
 

Id prefer that people at risk get vaccinated. From everything I’ve seen, it’s very rare that healthy people under 65 are being admitted with serious covid issues… it happens, but it’s rare… it’s typically unvaxxed people that have a chart showing they were very vulnerable to this happening.   However, I would never mandate they get this vaccine.  Nobody has given me rational reasoning as to why that’s necessary.  

 

The mandate is because it is a public health issue. It does look like the delta may be burning out; hopefully the my or other variants don’t rise up.   I think the most disappointing thing about Covid, apart from all the deaths of course, is it has revealed that we cannot come together as a society at a time of crisis.  Watching the 9/11 coverage crystallized this thought for me.  We used to band together as a society to defeat a common enemy.  

[TSOL]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I hope you’ll be OK.

 

 

 

Brother, i promise you ill be fine 

[The Frankish Reich]

It isn't productive to respond to comments citing anecdotes ("I know a guy who ...") or conspiracy theories ("they" deliberately seeded US communities with COVID" or "it's all about making money"). People who make those types of arguments aren't swayed.

 

So without responding to individual comments, here's the facts on serious adverse reactions to one of the vaccines (Pfizer). Note that certain serious adverse health events occurred in the placebo group too, sometimes with greater frequency. Because, well, sometimes people get sick, and the vaccine isn't the cause. That's why we do tests with a control/placebo group!

 

Serious Adverse Events

Serious adverse events were defined as any untoward medical occurrence that resulted in death, was life-threatening, required inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization, or resulted in persistent disability/incapacity. The proportions of participants who reported at least 1 serious adverse event were 0.6% in the vaccine group and 0.5% in the placebo group. The most common serious adverse events in the vaccine group which were numerically higher than in the placebo group were appendicitis (7 in vaccine vs 2 in placebo), acute myocardial infarction (3 vs 0), and cerebrovascular accident (3 vs 1). Cardiovascular serious adverse events were balanced between vaccine and placebo groups. Two serious adverse events were considered by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as possibly related to vaccine: shoulder injury possibly related to vaccine administration or to the vaccine itself, and lymphadenopathy involving the axilla contralateral to the vaccine injection site. Otherwise, occurrence of severe adverse events involving system organ classes and specific preferred terms were balanced between vaccine and placebo groups.

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It isn't productive to respond to comments citing anecdotes ("I know a guy who ...") or conspiracy theories ("they" deliberately seeded US communities with COVID" or "it's all about making money"). People who make those types of arguments aren't swayed.

 

So without responding to individual comments, here's the facts on serious adverse reactions to one of the vaccines (Pfizer). Note that certain serious adverse health events occurred in the placebo group too, sometimes with greater frequency. Because, well, sometimes people get sick, and the vaccine isn't the cause. That's why we do tests with a control/placebo group!

 

Serious Adverse Events

Serious adverse events were defined as any untoward medical occurrence that resulted in death, was life-threatening, required inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization, or resulted in persistent disability/incapacity. The proportions of participants who reported at least 1 serious adverse event were 0.6% in the vaccine group and 0.5% in the placebo group. The most common serious adverse events in the vaccine group which were numerically higher than in the placebo group were appendicitis (7 in vaccine vs 2 in placebo), acute myocardial infarction (3 vs 0), and cerebrovascular accident (3 vs 1). Cardiovascular serious adverse events were balanced between vaccine and placebo groups. Two serious adverse events were considered by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as possibly related to vaccine: shoulder injury possibly related to vaccine administration or to the vaccine itself, and lymphadenopathy involving the axilla contralateral to the vaccine injection site. Otherwise, occurrence of severe adverse events involving system organ classes and specific preferred terms were balanced between vaccine and placebo groups.

Part of the issue is that two of the three vaccines are created by companies who have been fined Billions for falsifying research previously. The other issue is that since the middle of last year the vaccine has been politicized. First by Dems and then by Republicans and pushed by Fauci who is a lying scumbag. Lastly only an immoral person requires a child to take a shot to benefit people over 50.

[Big Blitz]

 

This can't be.  They are safe!

 

 

The timelime I read from Pfizer back in May was that EAUs for 5 - 12 would be approved by now.

 

The fact they aren't proves these arguments and valid.  

 

The kids don't need this vax take off their freaking masks.  

[SinceThe70s]

6 hours ago, ALF said:

FDA vaccine advisers vote to recommend booster doses of Covid-19 vaccine in people 65 and older and those at high risk

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/health/fda-vrbpac-booster-meeting/index.html

 

The same site posted an article a few hours later outlining why the FDA vaccine advisers did not recommend boosters for people under 65

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/health/fda-advisers-booster-five-things/index.html

 

"They would like a lot more data and a chance to look for mistaken conclusions"

 

"They are worried about younger adults and teens...If it's not of value, then the risks may outweigh the benefits."

 

[Buffarukus]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I hope you’ll be OK.

The mandate is because it is a public health issue. It does look like the delta may be burning out; hopefully the my or other variants don’t rise up.   I think the most disappointing thing about Covid, apart from all the deaths of course, is it has revealed that we cannot come together as a society at a time of crisis.  Watching the 9/11 coverage crystallized this thought for me.  We used to band together as a society to defeat a common enemy.  

 

you site data in your post but then "hope" he will be ok? the data is showing that not only will he be ok but he will be with much better immunity then anyone who was only vaxed. the issue is why are the studies not being the number one priority since they are threatening to shun people from society? you get data THEN mandate if neccessary, not the other way around. 

 

i replied to this coming together argument with you before and you still only see it from your side. SC laid out a perfectly logical reasoning for his decision and where we should have "come together" is when our government became authoritarian. when clear knowledge that box stores were allowed to jam people in them while small stores were shut down even as they followed every single protocol to be safe. arbitrarily crushing people who spent their entire lives building a little something of their own to the sound of applause. when children who repeatedly showed no data that they would be negatively affected were still treated like they are the most at risk group. when people who put their health at risk with no knowledge of how dangerous this was and little PPE, once praised with thank yous are now being threatened to lose that very same job. at this point they ACCEPT the risk and if your vaxed and everyone you love is then you should be fighting on their behalf.

 

how does anyone think that being on the other side of these things is correct? so many more. that's where we should have come together. all while the people making these mandates were caught lying, flip flopping, and repeatedly caught breaking their own protocals with huge smiles on their faces.

 

  

Edited September 18, 2021 by Buffarukus

[reddogblitz]

I find it disturbing that President Biden has out kicked his coverage twice now.  First with if you're vaccinated you don't need a mask and now boosters for everyone only for the FDA to say only for the vulnerable.

 

Does not instill confidence that he knows what he's doing.

[Albwan]

Lefties rarely, if ever tell the the truth, but, every once in a while it leaks out....

 

 

[Albwan]

[Albwan]

Every Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee opposed the Vaccine Mandate for immigrants while every Republican supported the measure. Those Democrats include:

 

Reps. Jerry Nadler (D-NY), Madeleine Dean (D-PA), Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX), Steve Cohen (D-TN), Hank Johnson (D-GA), Theodore Deutch (D-FL), Karen Bass (D-CA), Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY), David Cicilline (D-RI), Eric Swalwell (D-CA), Ted Lieu (D-CA), Jamie Raskin (D-MD), Pramila Jayapal (D-WA), Val Demings (D-FL), Luis Correa (D-CA), Mary Scanlon (D-PA), Sylvia Garcia (D-TX), Joe Neguse (D-CO), Lucy McBath (D-GA), Greg Stanton (D-AZ), Veronica Escobar (D-TX), Mondaire Jones (D-NY), Deborah Ross (D-NC), Cori Bush (D-MO)

 

 

Commie Psaki: That's correct

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Albwan

[Albwan]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/idaho-doctor-reports-a-20-times-increase-of-cancer-in-vaccinated-patients/

Idaho doctor reports a ‘20 times increase’ of cancer in vaccinated patients 

 

 

Cole explained that two types of cells are required for adequate immune system function: “Helper T-cells,” also called “CD4 cells,” and “killer T-cells,” often known as “CD8 cells.” 

According to Cole, in patients with HIV, there is a massive suppression of “helper T-cells” which cause immune system functions to plummet, and leave the patient susceptible to a variety of illnesses.  

Similarly, Cole describes, “post-vaccine, what we are seeing is a drop in your killer T-cells, in your CD8 cells,” 

“And what do CD8 cells do? They keep all other viruses in check,” he continued. 

 

 

Probably part of the plan imo.