Honest discussion about racism (non political)

[SoCal Deek]

Here we all are on here having lengthy, rather intelligent discussions about racism and has one person come on and espoused any hate speech about blacks?  Not that I've read.  I offer up that most of this is like when you have a zit on your nose.  You think everyone is looking at your nose....but they aren't. People are worried about the zit on their own nose, not the one on yours. You're of course free to think that your neighbors, community, city and country are out to get you or to keep you down, but they aren't! People barely have time to promote themselves let alone spend time keeping you oppressed.  Get over yourself! 

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Is this disparity for the same home, same level of up keep in the same neighborhood with same same schools and same access to amenities and same level of crime?  
 

So in other words there are two nearly identical home across my street, on poc owned, one white owned.
 

You are saying if both put their house on the market, simultaneously the market would assign a lower value to the poc home? 

 

There are two different circumstances.

 

One is the situation you describe where it is literally the same home. But when the assessor comes there's a black family in the home. It gets systematically undervalued than if a white family was present in the same home. 

 

I posted links on this, the national assessment association admitted this still happens, this year. 

 

The second senario is similar home, similar level of up keep. Vastly lower assessment if it is in a predominantly black neighborhood...

 

Did you read the links I posted? 

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Proportionality is funny, it seems to be used only conveniently. 

 

thus are you suggesting the proportion of money distributed by race favors a certain demographic? 
 

the data in this link disputes that and says poc household many times more like to receive benefits.  

 

https://www.nap.edu/read/9719/chapter/8

 

Yes, a higher percentage of black people have been in poverty than the percentage of white people, and thus eligible for welfare. 

 

The idea that welfare unfairly helps black over white people is simply untrue. More white people have been given more money from the government via welfare than black people. And I would LOVE to see any eligibility requirements that give black people and advantage on the basis of their race as at least two posters have claimed. I simply believe those are lies they have been fed to stoke the narrative that white people are ripped off by welfare. 

 

And as I pointed out, black people were systematically denied access to federal subsidy programs that allowed mostly white people to build wealth through homeownership. This includes the black WWII vets who were barred from participation in the zero down, low interest guaranteed mortgages through the VA.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yes, a highwr percentage of black people have been in poverty and thus eligible for welfare. 

 

The idea that welfare unfairly helps black over white people is simply untrue. More white people have been given more money from the government via welfare than black people. And I would LOVE to see any eligibility requirements that give black people and advantage on the basis of their race as at least two posters have claimed.

 

And as I pointed out, black people were systematically denied access to federal subsidy programs that allowed mostly white people to build wealth through homeownership. This includes the black WWII vets who were barred from participation in the zero down, low interest guaranteed mortgages through the VA.

 

 

Oh come on. Just last night you claimed blacks were ‘targeted’ during the mortgage crisis. You seem to be cherry picking now.

[Motorin']

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Oh come on. Just last night you claimed blacks were ‘targeted’ during the mortgage crisis. You seem to be cherry picking now.

 

Why do you choose abrasive language aimed at shutting me up rather than addressing the substance of my posts? 

 

Enough already.... Oh come on... Thanks for the lack of discussion...

 

You've already made up your mind that you are right and I am wrong and are using juvenile behavior to try to shut me down. 

 

Not appreciated.

[Chef Jim]

21 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

 

And as I pointed out, black people were systematically denied access to federal subsidy programs that allowed mostly white people to build wealth through homeownership. This includes the black WWII vets who were barred from participation in the zero down, low interest guaranteed mortgages through the VA.

 

 

Were systematically denied.  WWII ended nearly 80 years or 3-4 generations ago.  

[Motorin']

14 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Were systematically denied.  WWII ended nearly 80 years or 3-4 generations ago.  

 

My grandpa fought in WWII and used his zero down VA loan to buy a house for around 15k. He passed away in the 90's, but my grandma kept on trucking. When she passed away about 10 years ago, we sold the house for over 200k. Money in our pockets that my grandparents were able to leave us in the 2010's. 

 

As I've pointed out, the value of home equity that middle and working class white families were able to pass on to future generations that they bought with federally subsidized mortgages is over 1 trillion dollars in total.

 

Black families were systematically denied access to these programs that lasted over 40 years after WWII, and as a result were denied the ability to pass on equity to future generations. 

 

But the discrimination in housing policy and practice doesn't end in the 20th century. They continue to this very day. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

51 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

There are two different circumstances.

 

One is the situation you describe where it is literally the same home. But when the assessor comes there's a black family in the home. It gets systematically undervalued than if a white family was present in the same home. 

 

I posted links on this, the national assessment association admitted this still happens, this year. 

 

The second senario is similar home, similar level of up keep. Vastly lower assessment if it is in a predominantly black neighborhood...

 

Did you read the links I posted? 

I did read them, but it smelled like an agenda piece. I’d love to see a larger study examining similar houses in same neighborhoods. It’s the only way to have legitimate comparative study and meaningful conclusion. 
 

Saying everything it a race thing then finding some examples isn’t scientific or conclusive. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yes, a higher percentage of black people have been in poverty than the percentage of white people, and thus eligible for welfare. 

 

The idea that welfare unfairly helps black over white people is simply untrue. More white people have been given more money from the government via welfare than black people. And I would LOVE to see any eligibility requirements that give black people and advantage on the basis of their race as at least two posters have claimed. I simply believe those are lies they have been fed to stoke the narrative that white people are ripped off by welfare. 

 

And as I pointed out, black people were systematically denied access to federal subsidy programs that allowed mostly white people to build wealth through homeownership. This includes the black WWII vets who were barred from participation in the zero down, low interest guaranteed mortgages through the VA.

 

 

Maybe, I think the only people ripped off by welfare are those paying for it. Some people really need it, some don’t and are just abusing the systems.

 

You want to fix disadvantaged kids? Look no further then how many parents they have. That fact statically surpasses every other categorization you want to try. 
 

Why does that end up correlating to racial disparity??? Here is why. 
 

Quote

Broken down by race, however, the statistics show stark differences.  The percentage of White children under 18 who live with both parents almost doubles that of Black children, according to the data. While 74.3 percent of all White children below the age of 18 live with both parents, only 38.7 percent of African-American minors can say the same.

https://afro.com/census-bureau-higher-percentage-black-children-live-single-mothers/

 

 

Fix that and watch inequity vanish. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Big Blitz]

 

 

Maybe it isn't racism. 

 

Maybe what you're seeing is the full and complete takeover of actual race based issues by Communists groups seeking to destroy this country from within.

 

Exactly what BLM the socialist political group that hates the patriarchy is attempting to do.   

Edited June 28, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Unforgiven]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Maybe it isn't racism. 

 

Maybe what you're seeing is the full and complete takeover of actual race based issued by Communists groups seeking to destroy this country from within.

 

Exactly what BLM the socialist political group that hates the patriarchy is attempting to do.   

It has zero to do with actual racism. If you can't see this clearly you're too stupid to deal with.

[unbillievable]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

There are two different circumstances.

 

One is the situation you describe where it is literally the same home. But when the assessor comes there's a black family in the home. It gets systematically undervalued than if a white family was present in the same home. 

 

I posted links on this, the national assessment association admitted this still happens, this year. 

 

The second senario is similar home, similar level of up keep. Vastly lower assessment if it is in a predominantly black neighborhood...

 

Did you read the links I posted? 

 

Did you read the links you posted?

 

You're claiming that a home gets assessed lower, and higher at the same time. You do realize that they only do one assessment per year, right?

 

 

27 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Maybe it isn't racism. 

 

Maybe what you're seeing is the full and complete takeover of actual race based issued by Communists groups seeking to destroy this country from within.

 

Exactly what BLM the socialist political group that hates the patriarchy is attempting to do.   

 

She's representing the state of the country perfectly.

[Motorin']

13 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

Did you read the links you posted?

 

You're claiming that a home gets assessed lower, and higher at the same time. You do realize that they only do one assessment per year, right?

 

 

 

You are not correct sir. County governments that levy property taxes vary greatly in how often they determine assessment value for the purpose of property taxes. Black  owned homes are over assessed for the purposes of property taxation by 15% nationwide.

 

Black homeowners who pay to have their home's market value commercially assessed when they are in the process of selling, refinancing or applying for a home equity loan have the value of their homes under valued by a much higher percentage. That's what the data and evidence in the articles I posted state.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

She's representing the state of the country perfectly.

 

Land of the free, no?

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[unbillievable]

7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

You are not correct sir. County governments that levy property taxes vary greatly in how often they determine assessment value for the purpose of property taxes. Black  owned homes are over assessed for the purposes of pretty taxes by 15% nationwide.

 

Black homeowners who have their home's market value assessed when they are in the process of selling, refinancing or applying for a home equity loan have the value of their homes under valued by a much higher percentage. That's what the data and evidence in the articles I posted state.

 

 

That is not what is in the articles you posted. That is what they use in the headlines.

 

Try reading the entire article. They're saying that two groups of people have different outcomes, so it must be racist; which is not evidence.

 

Evidence shows that it snows more on white people. Black people are affected more by floods. Weather is racist.

Edited June 27, 2021 by unbillievable

[unbillievable]

A simple check of facts; according  Motorin'

 

Houses in predominantly black neighborhoods are worth more than those in other neighborhoods because taxes are racist. Check zillow in your city and see if this is true.

20 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Land of the free, no?

 

Nothing says freedom like sending a represensative who hates  what they represent.

 

When the athletes walk around olympic stadium, at least 1/3 of the flags should be on fire.

Edited June 27, 2021 by unbillievable

[Motorin']

9 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

A simple check of facts; according  Motorin'

 

Houses in predominantly black neighborhoods are worth more than those in other neighborhoods because taxes are racist. Check zillow in your city and see if this is true.

 

You could not have stated the facts more backwards if you tried. It's like you are trying be wrong. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-09/racial-inequality-broken-property-tax-system-blocks-black-wealth-building

Edited June 27, 2021 by Motorin'

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Maybe, I think the only people ripped off by welfare are those paying for it. Some people really need it, some don’t and are just abusing the systems.

 

You want to fix disadvantaged kids? Look no further then how many parents they have. That fact statically surpasses every other categorization you want to try. 
 

Why does that end up correlating to racial disparity??? Here is why. 
 

https://afro.com/census-bureau-higher-percentage-black-children-live-single-mothers/

 

 

Fix that and watch inequity vanish. 

 

The wealth gap between black and white households in 1960 was 700%. A relatively small amount of black households then were single parent.

 

The wealth gap today is still 650%.

 

If single parent households are to blame, then the two parent black households would have closed the wealth gap with two parent white households. That simply has not happen. The income gap is vast, as is wealth and home ownership gap (for two parent black households.)  

 

Contrary to earlier comments in this thread, I am not motivated by communism allegiances and have no hopes of destroying America.

 

I think there are tangible financial harms done to black families that need to be repaid, and my hopes are that with amends will come a more united country. 

[Frat-Train]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The wealth gap between black and white households in 1960 was 700%. A relatively small amount of black households then were single parent.

 

The wealth gap today is still 650%.

 

If single parent households are to blame, then the two parent black households would have closed the wealth gap with two parent white households. That simply has not happen. The income gap is vast, as is wealth and home ownership gap (for two parent black households.)  

 

Contrary to earlier comments in this thread, I am not motivated by communism allegiances and have no hopes of destroying America.

 

I think there are tangible financial harms done to black families that need to be repaid, and my hopes are that with amends will come a more united country. 

I don’t agree with all of the points and content you’ve provided, but you have stated your points and provided plenty of supporting documents to help others see your point through a more objective lens. I sincerely thank you for that And please don’t take that as condescending.  I did read what you linked and have formed an opinion different than what you’ve formed.  We don’t have to agree, we just need to be better listeners and more respectful of different viewpoints.  Thank you for not just making baseless claims, and for entering into a discussion beyond rhetoric or partisan speaking points.  Also, thank you for the links!!!  🍻

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The wealth gap between black and white households in 1960 was 700%. A relatively small amount of black households then were single parent.

 

The wealth gap today is still 650%.

 

If single parent households are to blame, then the two parent black households would have closed the wealth gap with two parent white households. That simply has not happen. The income gap is vast, as is wealth and home ownership gap (for two parent black households.)  

 

Contrary to earlier comments in this thread, I am not motivated by communism allegiances and have no hopes of destroying America.

 

I think there are tangible financial harms done to black families that need to be repaid, and my hopes are that with amends will come a more united country. 

Single parent households stand up statistically as a root cause of poverty way better than race. I know it deconstructs a liberal narrative, but it’s reality, and logically so. Break the cycle that incentivize single parent child bearing, drive home education that it’s an economically poor choice snd watch the inequity vanish. 

 

Quote

4. Single-parent families headed by women of color rank worse on the poverty scale.

(Single Mother Guide)

According to single-parent household statistics by race, approximately two out of five families headed by black females have been reported to live in poverty (37%), which is higher than that of white single-mother families (29%) and Asian single-mother families (29%). 

In general, single mothers are still more likely to be poor than married couples, for quite obvious reasons. According to 2017’s statistics, the poverty rate for single-mother families was 34%, significantly greater than the poverty rate for married couples (6%).

 

https://2date4love.com/single-mother-statistics/

[Motorin']

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Single parent households stand up statistically as a root cause of poverty way better than race. I know it deconstructs a liberal narrative, but it’s reality, and logically so. Break the cycle that incentivize single parent child bearing, drive home education that it’s an economically poor choice snd watch the inequity vanish. 

 

https://2date4love.com/single-mother-statistics/

 

It's not necessarily an either or situation. If we are strictly talking about breaking out of poverty, absolutely having a two parent household plays a huge role in most cases. 

 

There is big a difference between breaking out of poverty, and traversing the massive wealth gap created from hundreds of years of unpaid slavery, a hundred years of segregation and discrimination followed by 50 years of attempts to root out the remnants of discrimination. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Why do you choose abrasive language aimed at shutting me up rather than addressing the substance of my posts? 

 

Enough already.... Oh come on... Thanks for the lack of discussion...

 

You've already made up your mind that you are right and I am wrong and are using juvenile behavior to try to shut me down. 

 

Not appreciated.

I’m obviously not shutting you down because here you are. You simply want people to agree with you. Which is fine but I’m as a certifiable non racist I’m not going to. I believe in the genuine good nature of people as a whole and have run into very very few real haters of any color. So I’m not buying this systemic nonsense. That would require more total haters than I’ve come across in my considerable decades of experience. Sorry you don’t like hearing that, but someone has to say it.

[Chef Jim]

3 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

My grandpa fought in WWII and used his zero down VA loan to buy a house for around 15k. He passed away in the 90's, but my grandma kept on trucking. When she passed away about 10 years ago, we sold the house for over 200k. Money in our pockets that my grandparents were able to leave us in the 2010's. 

 

As I've pointed out, the value of home equity that middle and working class white families were able to pass on to future generations that they bought with federally subsidized mortgages is over 1 trillion dollars in total.

 

Black families were systematically denied access to these programs that lasted over 40 years after WWII, and as a result were denied the ability to pass on equity to future generations. 

 

But the discrimination in housing policy and practice doesn't end in the 20th century. They continue to this very day. 

 

 

Dicrimination is found in everything against every race, creed, color, sex and age.  I likely would have a harder time getting many jobs than most black people.   

[Motorin']

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m obviously not shutting you down because here you are. You simply want people to agree with you. Which is fine but I’m as a certifiable non racist I’m not going to. I believe in the genuine good nature of people as a whole and have run into very very few real haters of any color. So I’m not buying this systemic nonsense. That would require more total haters than I’ve come across in my considerable decades of experience. Sorry you don’t like hearing that, but someone has to say it.

 

Hate in the individual isn't required for the system work unfairly. 

 

Algorithms can execute discriminatory policies without the capacity to feel, let alone hate. 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Dicrimination is found in everything against every race, creed, color, sex and age.  I likely would have a harder time getting many jobs than most black people.   

 

I mean, you can tell yourself that. There's virtually no evidence to back that up. If there is I'd love to read it. 

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

I mean, you can tell yourself that. There's virtually no evidence to back that up. If there is I'd love to read it. 

There are plenty of stats out there.  Much of it is anecdotal just as a lot of racism in hiring practices  is.  
 

If you don’t think age discrimination is a big thing can’t help you. 

[Motorin']

Just now, Chef Jim said:

There are plenty of stats out there.  Much of it is anecdotal just as a lot of racism in hiring practices  is.  
 

If you don’t think age discrimination is a big thing can’t help you. 

 

Oh I have no doubt age discrimination is real. I didn't realize you where calling yourself old.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Hate in the individual isn't required for the system work unfairly. 

 

Algorithms can execute discriminatory policies without the capacity to feel, let alone hate. 

I’m never going to try and stop you from looking for unfairness. You seem bent on looking for it in everything but  I’m going to remain steadfast in my belief in the goodness of people. I see that goodness displayed all around me on a daily basis. I wish you nothing the best in your quest so long as you don’t trample on the millions of innocent people in your pursuit. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

It's not necessarily an either or situation. If we are strictly talking about breaking out of poverty, absolutely having a two parent household plays a huge role in most cases. 

 

There is big a difference between breaking out of poverty, and traversing the massive wealth gap created from hundreds of years of unpaid slavery, a hundred years of segregation and discrimination followed by 50 years of attempts to root out the remnants of discrimination. 

 

 

Yeah I think we are aligned, it’s just I’m suggesting it is by far the main cause of inequity. Lingering impact from the horrible things allowed to happen in the past I suggest, are a minimally impactful red herring. 

[SoCal Deek]

I work with a number of really successful black people. They don’t allow any of this negativity narrative to dictate their pursuit of happiness. 

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Hate in the individual isn't required for the system work unfairly. 

 

Algorithms can execute discriminatory policies without the capacity to feel, let alone hate. 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, you can tell yourself that. There's virtually no evidence to back that up. If there is I'd love to read it. 

But if we are talking about systems that create inequality as racist, what about within certain ethnic groups, themselves?  Not all black people produce the same outcome...and you can go on down the line with every ethnic group in every culture...

 

Heck, even siblings within a family don’t have the same outcome...so I don’t understand how it’s racist if different races don’t have the same outcome, if you can’t even produce an equal outcome within races, or even families...

 

Furthermore, what if people don’t want the same outcomes? People have all sorts of different preferences, passions, and needs...who is to say I even want the same thing as my white American friend? So how is that racist if I choose something different that contributes to an unequal outcome?

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

But if we are talking about systems that create inequality as racist, what about within certain ethnic groups, themselves?  Not all black people produce the same outcome...and you can go on down the line with every ethnic group in every culture...

 

Heck, even siblings within a family don’t have the same outcome...so I don’t understand how it’s racist if different races don’t have the same outcome, if you can’t even produce an equal outcome within races, or even families...

 

Furthermore, what if people don’t want the same outcomes? People have all sorts of different preferences, passions, and needs...who is to say I even want the same thing as my white American friend? So how is that racist if I choose something different that contributes to an unequal outcome?

 

This is happening all over the country: 

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/998536881/a-black-woman-says-she-had-to-hide-her-race-to-get-a-fair-home-appraisal

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

This is happening all over the country: 

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/998536881/a-black-woman-says-she-had-to-hide-her-race-to-get-a-fair-home-appraisal

Why is it all the “proof” is singular examples? BY DEFINITION that’s not systemic.

 

thix topic continues to be a number of reasonable questioners and nobody who can articulate answers. 
 

gawd people see a race war being spurred by political elite?!!? 

[Motorin']

38 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Why is it all the “proof” is singular examples? BY DEFINITION that’s not systemic.

 

thix topic continues to be a number of reasonable questioners and nobody who can articulate answers. 
 

gawd people see a race war being spurred by political elite?!!? 

 

This is another response that seems committed to ignoring 99% of what has been presented so that you can say you are right, I am wrong. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Motorin'

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

This is another response that seems committed to ignoring 99% of what has been presented so that you can say you are right, I am wrong. 

Not my objective, just trying to point out the neo race war is ill founded and not bent on solving anything. It’s just politicians  attempting to control the libs minds. We can line up poc that decoded this narrative for days to educate you. 

[Motorin']

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Not my objective, just trying to point out the neo race war is ill founded and not bent on solving anything. It’s just politicians  attempting to control the libs minds. We can line up poc that decoded this narrative for days to educate you. 

 

No thanks. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

This is another response that seems committed to ignoring 99% of what has been presented so that you can say you are right, I am wrong. 

News flash: you are wrong. You don’t want to hear it,  but you are.

[WideNine]

History has a tendency to repeat itself - unfortunately.

 

The Rochester Riots - by McKelvey (City historian 50's-60's)

 

This is an interesting bit of WNY history. It is interesting to note the challenges that arose with the influx of black residents and how the city of Rochester tried to meet those challenges and how those efforts often fell short - you get the distinct feeling "we have been here before".

 

This one section below from the author in particular should grab our attention as historical deja vu:

 

"A series of loosely related incidents shattered the community's apathy. The trouble started in August 1962 when Rufus Fairwell, a 28-year old *****, suffered two fractured vertebrae in a struggle with two police men who attempted to arrest him as he closed the service station at which he was employed.

 

Alleging that Fairwell had refused to identify himself and then had resisted arrest, the officers had taken him forcibly to headquarters, where as Fairwell claimed he was further beaten and mal treated.

 

Popular indignation mounted when the grand jury cleared both Fairwell and the two policemen of assault charges." 

 

 

I had written about a 7 page manifesto that dove into human nature, tribalism, the importance of finishing education to close achievement and wealth gaps, the positive impact that male role models play in children finishing school, police reform... 

 

Even I thought it was a bit too much reading and reference material to inflict on you folks - and coming from me that is saying something.

 

 

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

7 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Why is it all the “proof” is singular examples? BY DEFINITION that’s not systemic.

 

thix topic continues to be a number of reasonable questioners and nobody who can articulate answers. 
 

gawd people see a race war being spurred by political elite?!!? 

What I object to is the term systemic.  It appears to be a subjective and anecdotal conclusion that lacks any quantification or numerical identification.  Like "systemic racism".  Does that mean at least 51% of people are racist?  And what are the traits and actions of these people that are considered racist?  Can somebody outline them?  Are they actions, thoughts, words, something else?

The term "systemic" implies some widespread problem of some observable condition that exists above some threshold value vs. the total population.  When I press people for examples of systemic racism all I ever seem to get are historical references.  But nothing from present day that is quantifiable and validates the belief. 

 

And while there are certainly individual acts and instances of race motivated bad behavior the idea its systemic or epidemic seems absurd in today's society as the numbers just don't add up.  It all comes down to if you can't quantify it how can you know or say its systemic?  

Edited June 28, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

What I object to is the term systemic.  It appears to be a subjective and anecdotal conclusion that lacks any quantification or numerical identification.  Like "systemic racism".  Does that mean at least 51% of people are racist?  And what are the traits and actions of these people that are considered racist?  Can somebody outline them?  Are they actions, thoughts, words, something else?

The term "systemic" implies some widespread problem of some observable condition that exists above some threshold value vs. the total population.  When I press people for examples of systemic racism all I ever seem to get are historical references.  But nothing from present day that is quantifiable and validates the belief. 

 

And while there are certainly individual acts and instances of race motivated bad behavior the idea its systemic or epidemic seems absurd in today's society as the numbers just don't add up.  It all comes down to if you can't quantify it how can you know or say its systemic?  

That’s to me the real frustration of this whole systemic boogie man. It’s blaming everyone and no one at the same time and as a result frames a problem without a solution. 
 

The naive that mean well miss that this narrative is a divisive political instrument.
 

The power mongers are happy to ignite a race war if polarization rallies up the votes they need. 

8 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

No thanks. 

exactly- please try immersing yourself in diversity and stop letting politicians tell you how your world works. See it with your own eyes. Ask and learn. Stop believing cheap flimsy narratives.  Free you mind, and the rest will follow. 

[Tiberius]

16 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Dicrimination is found in everything against every race, creed, color, sex and age.  I likely would have a harder time getting many jobs than most black people.   

You would? Why is that? Are you oppressed? 

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

What I object to is the term systemic.  It appears to be a subjective and anecdotal conclusion that lacks any quantification or numerical identification.  Like "systemic racism".  Does that mean at least 51% of people are racist?  And what are the traits and actions of these people that are considered racist?  Can somebody outline them?  Are they actions, thoughts, words, something else?

The term "systemic" implies some widespread problem of some observable condition that exists above some threshold value vs. the total population.  When I press people for examples of systemic racism all I ever seem to get are historical references.  But nothing from present day that is quantifiable and validates the belief. 

 

And while there are certainly individual acts and instances of race motivated bad behavior the idea its systemic or epidemic seems absurd in today's society as the numbers just don't add up.  It all comes down to if you can't quantify it how can you know or say its systemic?  

You have to admit that slavery and Jim Crow were systems, right? And those systems relied or were supported by racism, right? 

[Westside]

24 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You would? Why is that? Are you oppressed? 

You have to admit that slavery and Jim Crow were systems, right? And those systems relied or were supported by racism, right? 

You have to admit that you are a product of white privilege. You’ve had opportunities handed to you based solely on the color of your skin. 
You have benefited greatly from your racist upbringing, yet you refuse to admit it. Are you suffering from white guilt?