Sherlock Holmes Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: On that last, I guess we'll find out, but I've never managed a successful team of people where someone had that viewpoint and was allowed to get away with it. On the former, what is someone forcing Beasley to do with his health? He doesn't have to get vaccinated. The problem he's having is that he doesn't want to get vaccinated, AND he doesn't want to follow the rules for not being vaccinated. He recognizes there shouldn't be those rules...if this were Josh Allen taking a stand I wonder how many people would still be saying "Next man up" and "Cut his ass" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkScrewHill Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Do tell. What is it? What was involved in the EUA for these vaccines and how that differs from a BLA? I know pretty exactly, as it happens, because that was my lane. I'm also pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of people who glibly trot that phrase out have no idea, but are just parroting something they heard on a talk show - without any details, of course, it just SOUNDS so alarming. I think part of the problem is when you get the vaccine is stated it is unapproved and the fact that it was turned around in a very short timeframe makes people concerned as they question if it was tested enough .. but as of now our population has in a sense tested them and there have been very little in the way of side effects. I am fine if people get the vaccine and fine if they don’t. If someone gets very sick from COVID and they didn’t get the vaccine that is on them .. but let them live or die for that matter as they choose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: What if they already have had covid? Their acquired immunity is every bit as potent as what they would get from the vaccines. That's probably not true. The reason is that most viruses have strategies to evade and suppress the immune system, and as we learn more about SARS-CoV2 we learn that it seems trickier than most in this regard. The vaccine, on the other hand, just shows your immune system the spike protein and says "sic 'em". 1 hour ago, Southern_Bills said: So you are ok with unknown side effects and potential long term damage it may or may not do? Good for you, I'm not and I won't fault anyone else who isnt. Are you talking of the vaccine, or of the SARs-Cov2 virus here? There's "recency bias". People have been hearing a lot about the vaccine lately, and forget that: 1) This virus is new, too 2) We have no idea of what potential long term damage a natural viral infection with this virus may cause More data accumulates regularly about long-term side effects from asymptomatic and mild viral infections. It's not to say there aren't vaccine side effects, there are. Overall, historically, the number and scope of long term effects from natural virus infections are much larger - and new effects from viral diseases that have been known for decades, like measles, are learnt on a regular basis. 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: It's a personal choice. Every adult has the option to protect themselves by getting vaccinated. What Beasley does or doesn't do won't impact those that get the vaccine. I learnt upthread that it's an ineffective vaccine because it's only 80 or 85% effective <sarcasm>. 🙄 That means 15 or 20% of those who get vaccinated still can get infected. That means unvaccinated can, in fact, impact those who get the vaccine. Less often, but still. And no, not every adult can protect themselves by getting vaccinated. Some medical conditions and treatments make it inadviseable. Rare, but still. 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Having the courage of convictions isn't necessarily good for a person or for a society. wow...we really want to win football games so much we desire the state becomes the defacto harbinger od truth of any dissent is discouraged? As I said, i am huge pro vaxer, i believe 100% in its efficacy..its why i dont give a poop if dude next to me is not vaxed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Also, now accepting all Beasley jerseys that the haters are willing to turn in! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemac1114 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Sure why pay attention to medical science when some antivaxxer who lost his medical license said be afraid of vaccines. Do you know anyone with polio since vaccinations started. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-receiver-cole-beasley-says-hes-spoken-with-nflpa-regarding-new-covid-19-protocols/article_1b37a5a0-cfd2-11eb-aca8-8fc42a64e7ad.amp.html "everybody is so all in on science now more than I have ever seen. What happen (sic) to God's will?" A follower pointed out that vaccinations are a choice, but asked if Beasley would let a doctor repair an injury were he to get hurt. For example, the receiver underwent core-muscle surgery in 2019. "Depends on the injury," Beasley responded. "When I get sick, I naturally get better. If I don't, then it was my time. Nobody is gonna be here forever." Jesus... I'm sorry I started reading some of what he’s been saying. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Very impressed this isn't locked yet! It's HIS choice. Respect it. The end. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-receiver-cole-beasley-says-hes-spoken-with-nflpa-regarding-new-covid-19-protocols/article_1b37a5a0-cfd2-11eb-aca8-8fc42a64e7ad.amp.html "everybody is so all in on science now more than I have ever seen. What happen (sic) to God's will?" A follower pointed out that vaccinations are a choice, but asked if Beasley would let a doctor repair an injury were he to get hurt. For example, the receiver underwent core-muscle surgery in 2019. "Depends on the injury," Beasley responded. "When I get sick, I naturally get better. If I don't, then it was my time. Nobody is gonna be here forever." Jesus... I'm sorry I started reading some of what he’s been saying. Sounds like he is trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 💩 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: Hes one of 60M people in the USA who have not gotten vaccinated...who gives a F#ck. His choice and he has to deal with the outcome...whether that be missing games, getting sick or dealing with protocols. That's his choice. Anyone who questions that is being entitled and is pretty self important. I'm vaccinated but have no problem if it's not for everyone. I'm straight but have no issue with anyone who isn't. I'm white and have no issue with anyone who's not...so why should I care if someone doesn't get a vaccine? I genuinely don't understand sentiments like this. When you were a child, did your parents make a fuss about getting your vaccinations? Was it such a big matter of "choice" then? Do you have children of your own? If so, have you gotten them vaccinated? The only people being entitled and self-important are those who chose not to get vaccinated, since getting vaccinated isn't just for themselves but also for the sake of the community. Can you imagine the Greatest Generation putting up a big stink about getting the polio vaccine for their kids in the 50s? I just can't wrap my mind around it. Edited June 19, 2021 by Capco 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 42 minutes ago, Devilmann said: The dude is doing what he thinks is best for him and his family not to have an experiment injected into him. You or no one has no clue what these vaccines will do to you in the next few years because in the situation there was hardly any studies done because something worked in the moment. People are the guinea pigs in this scenario for the foreseeable future. Did you question his selfishness when he was basically playing on a broke leg in the playoffs? I doubt you did so I wouldn’t call him that because he is far from it. He gave up his body for this team and the fans so the least anyone can do is show some respect for a man that made his decision that involves his body. At the end of the day his decision does not effect your well-being. You've got quite a bit wrong here. Let's review. "The dude is doing what he thinks is best for him and his family not to have an experiment injected into him." This isnt an experiment. Phase 1, 2, and 3 trials are experiments (clinical trials might be a nicer word, but its the same). All Covid vaccines authorized for use in the US have gone through phase 1/2/3 trials. "You or no one has no clue what these vaccines will do to you in the next few years because in the situation there was hardly any studies done because something worked in the moment." Nope, wrong again. Well, only mostly wrong. It is true that no one can predict the future, so you're right there. But 200+ years of history tells us that all known vaccine side effects become apparent within 6-8 weeks. "Hardly any studies". Nope. The studies that led to authorization included 30K people for each vaccine. "At the end of the day his decision does not effect your well-being." Yeah, actually it does. Everyone who is not vaccinated becomes a reservoir for coronavirus infections, and the pandemic, to persist. And this reservoir allows for more chances for mutation, more chances for a more virulent, nasty virus to emerge. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, Capco said: I genuinely don't understand sentiments like this. When you were a child, did your parents make a fuss about getting your vaccinations? Was it such a big matter of "choice" then? Do you have children of your own? If so, have you gotten them vaccinated? The only people being entitled and self-important are those who chose not to get vaccinated for the sake of the community, not just the individuals receiving the vaccines. Can you imagine the Greatest Generation putting up a big stink about getting the polio vaccine for their kids in the 50s? I just can't wrap my mind around it. And the first polio vaccine sometimes gave you polio. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-receiver-cole-beasley-says-hes-spoken-with-nflpa-regarding-new-covid-19-protocols/article_1b37a5a0-cfd2-11eb-aca8-8fc42a64e7ad.amp.html "everybody is so all in on science now more than I have ever seen. What happen (sic) to God's will?" A follower pointed out that vaccinations are a choice, but asked if Beasley would let a doctor repair an injury were he to get hurt. For example, the receiver underwent core-muscle surgery in 2019. "Depends on the injury," Beasley responded. "When I get sick, I naturally get better. If I don't, then it was my time. Nobody is gonna be here forever." Jesus... I'm sorry I started reading some of what he’s been saying. hmm, a surgery that is proven to work..vs a an mRNA vaccine that has never been used in any situation...yep...good comparison. I mean WTH, thalidomide was a good choice too! https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/thalidomide-tragedy-lessons-drug-safety-and-regulation "Now, drug approval can take between eight and twelve years, involving animal testing and tightly regulated human clinical trials" Edited June 19, 2021 by plenzmd1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: so do tell...what is the difference? I am a pro vaxer, always have been . Seems to me reasonable people can have differing opinions on things the FDA does, and van have differing opinions on what the settled " science" infers. See the lab leak theory , and the Alzheimer drug controversy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/17/fda-aducanumab-alzheimers-drug-approval-erodes-confidence/ But damn, bury Cole , and put away any questions of the efficacy and honesty of our FDA... EUA for these vaccines: Full preclinical safety studies. Full clinical trial data - 3 phases of clinical trials including a 30,000 or 45,000 person phase III trial. Detailed protocols to be followed in the trials, and specific data collected, piles of reports in specific formats to make sure everything was there easy to find. Identity, characterization, stability, and impurity tests for the vaccine developed and validated to prove they're repeatable and do what they say they do. All the companies involved got it done by 1) not fiddling much with the vaccine or its formulation to try to make good great 2) throwing tons of manpower at the problem. What wasn't there for the EUA was duration of clinical followup data (usually 6 months), duration of stability studies (usually 6 months to 2 years - a non issue when the vaccine is used within a short time of manufacture), and some manufacturing consistency data. Very few drug candidates have trouble with the manufacturing consistency data, those issues get sorted much earlier. If the objection to the vaccine is it's "only approved for emergency use", then it's relevant to have some understanding of just how close to a full approval package it was. If the objection is "I question the efficacy and honesty of the FDA" then "it's only approved for emergency use" is a Stalking Horse - a seemingly reasonable point that's really cover for a deeper, more conspiracy-minded argument. You know this is a football forum, and issues will be discussed in TSW in the tight context of football relevance. Alzheimer's drug approval and Covid origin debates may be discussed elsewhere, along with general discussion of the efficacy and honesty of our FDA. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyDavisEyes Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 17 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Taking one against the team. If you can't play because of a political decision to break league rules, that's not acting in the team's best interests. It's prioritizing your own. He won’t miss a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: hmm, a surgery that is proven to work..vs a an mRNA vaccine that has never been used in any situation...yep...good comparison. I mean WTH, thalidomide was a good choice too! https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/thalidomide-tragedy-lessons-drug-safety-and-regulation That'll do. (And yes, mRNA vaccines have been used in other situations) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, HalftimeAdjustment said: And the first polio vaccine sometimes gave you polio. All vaccines have that risk. But people took that very, very minor risk willingly because they knew what it meant for the whole country. The benefits to the whole far outweighed the risk to the individual, and they didn't have second thoughts about doing something like that. It was automatic. Something changed in the last 40 years. People somehow became more selfish and less trusting, more tribal and less accepting. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: That'll do. (And yes, mRNA vaccines have been used in other situations) please do expound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, KennyDavisEyes said: He won’t miss a game. If he's a close contact of someone who tests positive, or he himself tests positive, it's not his choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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