Pete King on Wentz

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The only thing going for the Colts is a weak division and a STACKED roster. 
 

Rivers looked like 2015 Manning last season. He went to the Colts and they were in the playoffs.

 

Does Carson Wentz become Wentz of old? I doubt it. Too much baggage now. Does he show some flashes as a serviceable starter and win 10 games? Easily possible imo

 

Oh the Colts could win 10, sure. But that will be despite Wentz not because of his play. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Did you read the quote?

 

 

“He obviously responded very negatively to Jalen Hurts being drafted,” King said. “Like, ‘Oh my God, they’re bringing in somebody to take my place or to put pressure on me or to play mind games,’ whatever it is he’s thinking. He’s probably never going to say it, but we know that he’s got to be ticked off about this. "

 

 

Where is his source for this?  He is essentially pretending to read Wentz's mind and state it as fact.  

 

Let's say I've never heard about this before.  I want to know what happened.  

 

And I read this.   This tells me King on one hand states as fact he reacted terribly to the pick, then goes on to say we have to think he had to.  

 

I can't believe I have to explain this.   

 

 

We know 2 things.  And one of them is actually still an assumption.

 

When Hurts was drafted of course by human nature Wentz may have been a little irked but we have zero proof of this.  

 

What we do know is when he was benched in week 13 he was p****d.  

 

That's it.  

 

 

Here's what we also know.  The Eagles offense minus Wentz was the worst group from o line to skill guys in the league not named Goedert or Ertz.  And Sanders was hurt most of the season.  

 

I expect the Colts to win 12 games and the AFC South.  Easily actually.

 

 

Even the Eagles said that after the 2020 season, Wentz wanted out of Philly.  Clearly getting benched in favor of his backup was the last straw.  What part of Wentz's "state of mind" is hard to understand?  He wanted out of there.   King is correct: they drafted Hurts, Wentz crapped the bed and then said he wanted "a fresh start" somewhere else.  

28 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

This is such a stupid comment. 99% of the time if your QB is out for more than 8 games your season is over. Wentz- Foles and Bledsoe- Brady are the exceptions to the rule. More often than not its more of a Rodgers- Kizer situation.

 

A good back up QB should win you 50% of the games he plays and that is if he has a good defense/team to support him. 

 

 

It's not a stupid comment for for the Eagles in particular, given that a journeyman replaced their oft injured franchise QB and won them home filed and then the SB.

 

Mentioning as "the exception" the same scenario to the very QB situation being discussed isn't a strong argument.

[MrSarcasm]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Even the Eagles said that after the 2020 season, Wentz wanted out of Philly.  Clearly getting benched in favor of his backup was the last straw.  What part of Wentz's "state of mind" is hard to understand?  He wanted out of there.   King is correct: they drafted Hurts, Wentz crapped the bed and then said he wanted "a fresh start" somewhere else.  

 

 

It's not a stupid comment for for the Eagles in particular, given that a journeyman replaced their oft injured franchise QB and won them home filed and then the SB.

 

Mentioning as "the exception" the same scenario to the very QB situation being discussed isn't a strong argument.

Thats why it was mentioned, to not mention it would of been not okay, but again it is an exception. I could unreasonably argue that 'you don't need a QB at all to win games' and could site the Ravens and Bucsof the early 2000s as my example but you know what they were exceptions to the rule.

 

Using your logic you would state that people have 11 toes because some/very very few people have 11 toes.

 

Logic.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

18 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

New England did it pretty regularly -- 2016 Brissett (3rd).  2014 Garoppolo (2nd), 2011 Mallett (3rd)

Excellent point.

The counter of course is even by 2011 Brady was old.  But still I love it when posters bring actual facts to the table. Well done!

[Rocbillsfan1]

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Yeah!  Because........yeah!

 

 

When you franchise QB has had 2 full seasons out of 5....and win a SB after the journeyman backup goes 2-1 to lock up home field and then lead them to the SB win...you draft a guy in the 2nd round just in case.  That doesn't get any GMs fired.

 

Certainly BB didn't get fired:

 

As Billy Claude pointed out for you and From the article (which you didn't read):

 

“I look at Tom Brady in 2014, where all he’s done at that point is win four Super Bowls for New England, and now in the draft that year, here comes at the end of the second round, here comes Jimmy Garoppolo, a guy who’s being drafted to replace Brady, who was 37 at that time. And Tom Brady, here’s how he responded. The next four years he wins the MVP once and he wins two Super Bowls. And so to me that’s how a competitor responds. A competitor responds and says you are never ever taking my job. You know? And Carson Wentz just says, ‘OK, you want this guy? Let me get out of here.’”

 

Rodgers no doubt said the same thing to Love.

 

You don’t draft a guy in case when he’s in his 20s you draft a guy because the first guy isn’t the guy not very hard to understand.

 

also to the people stating well the patriots did it and Green Bay did it are you just being ignorant on purpose? 
 

drafting project qbs or an eventual replacement is common place when your qb is over 35 it’s completely different doing it when they guy is in the “prime” of his career. Name me an example and I’ll wait. I don’t know why people are so defensive about this. It’s ok that the eagles weren’t sold on him being the long term answer. I wasn’t sold on wentz either. But they most definitely didn’t pick hurts to be a backup give me a break. 

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

Sorry, I’m not buying the “Wentz as victim” card.  He stunk.  Obviously Reich thinks he can be saved, though.  Seems like a pretty big gamble, with no real back-up plan, for a team that could contend.

We'll find out this year but I've never seen a franchise have such a rush of injuries and poor personnel decisions on one side of the ball post Super Bowl than the Eagles. He had less weapons than Brady's final year in Foxboro and a poorer offensive line.

[Doc Brown]

43 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

You don’t draft a guy in case when he’s in his 20s you draft a guy because the first guy isn’t the guy not very hard to understand.

 

also to the people stating well the patriots did it and Green Bay did it are you just being ignorant on purpose? 
 

drafting project qbs or an eventual replacement is common place when your qb is over 35 it’s completely different doing it when they guy is in the “prime” of his career. Name me an example and I’ll wait. I don’t know why people are so defensive about this. It’s ok that the eagles weren’t sold on him being the long term answer. I wasn’t sold on wentz either. But they most definitely didn’t pick hurts to be a backup give me a break. 

Tommy Maddox.  What do I win?

[mannc]

29 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

We'll find out this year but I've never seen a franchise have such a rush of injuries and poor personnel decisions on one side of the ball post Super Bowl than the Eagles. He had less weapons than Brady's final year in Foxboro and a poorer offensive line.

Their second round rookie played much better than Wentz did, with the same supporting cast.

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

Their second round rookie played much better than Wentz did, with the same supporting cast.

Much better?  They simplified their offense and let Hurts use his wheels.  He still went 1-3 with a 52% completion % and a 41 QBR.  He played so poorly in the finale he was pulled for some guy named Nate Sudfeld.  He provided some juice to the team against the Saints but that's about it.

[Rocbillsfan1]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Tommy Maddox.  What do I win?

So you found 1 example from 92 and it wasn’t a good decision then either. Pretty much made my point for me. Wentz wasn’t very good and injury prone and the eagles decided to move on. That’s the truth not really hard to see. 

[Don Otreply]

Wentz upon a time..., there was a QB who was almost good enough..., 

 

 

[mannc]

10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Much better?  They simplified their offense and let Hurts use his wheels.  He still went 1-3 with a 52% completion % and a 41 QBR.  He played so poorly in the finale he was pulled for some guy named Nate Sudfeld.  He provided some juice to the team against the Saints but that's about it.

I didn’t say he was good.  But he was better than Wentz.

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

We'll find out this year but I've never seen a franchise have such a rush of injuries and poor personnel decisions on one side of the ball post Super Bowl than the Eagles. He had less weapons than Brady's final year in Foxboro and a poorer offensive line.

 

I have never seen so many poor decisions as on Carson Wentz's 2020 film. It was literally every snap in some games. He was unfathomably bad.

[Mr. WEO]

18 hours ago, MrSarcasm said:

Thats why it was mentioned, to not mention it would of been not okay, but again it is an exception. I could unreasonably argue that 'you don't need a QB at all to win games' and could site the Ravens and Bucsof the early 2000s as my example but you know what they were exceptions to the rule.

 

Using your logic you would state that people have 11 toes because some/very very few people have 11 toes.

 

Logic.

 

 

This QB struggles to complete a season.  So for him, calling upon his backup is NOT the exception, hence a quality backup was drafted.

 

Simple.

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

You don’t draft a guy in case when he’s in his 20s you draft a guy because the first guy isn’t the guy not very hard to understand.

 

also to the people stating well the patriots did it and Green Bay did it are you just being ignorant on purpose? 
 

drafting project qbs or an eventual replacement is common place when your qb is over 35 it’s completely different doing it when they guy is in the “prime” of his career. Name me an example and I’ll wait. I don’t know why people are so defensive about this. It’s ok that the eagles weren’t sold on him being the long term answer. I wasn’t sold on wentz either. But they most definitely didn’t pick hurts to be a backup give me a break. 

 

Wentz, in only his 5th season (only 2 full seasons), was "in his prime"?  Maybe you are re-defining that word? 

 

You won't have to wait--you already have "an example": Brady.  The year they drafted JG, NE won a SB.  Brady had 4100 yards and 34 TDs. The following year, 4600 yards and 36 TDs.   They then appeared in 3 SB in a row and won 2 of them.  Top 5 in points scored the entire time. 

[Bill from NYC]

18 hours ago, MrSarcasm said:

Thats why it was mentioned, to not mention it would of been not okay, but again it is an exception. I could unreasonably argue that 'you don't need a QB at all to win games' and could site the Ravens and Bucsof the early 2000s as my example but you know what they were exceptions to the rule.

 

Using your logic you would state that people have 11 toes because some/very very few people have 11 toes.

 

Logic.

Jeff Hostetler says hi.

[BillsShredder83]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:34 PM, YoloinOhio said:

3rd round 

well.... 2nd lol

[BillsShredder83]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:55 PM, Billy Claude said:

 

New England did it pretty regularly -- 2016 Brissett (3rd).  2014 Garoppolo (2nd), 2011 Mallett (3rd)

Just floating this for something to consider, i think it changes the narrative some, and Brisett is a bit of an outlier here because of the year... but qbs have seen sort of an inflation. In the early early 2010's a qb taken that high was somebody who typically was going to sit and be groomed.  The Aaron Rodgers type development was big then, and now theres so many qbs taken in round 1, that Garoppolo wouldve been a 1st rd'er. 

 

But guys drafted in the first 2 rounds now dont have the luxury of sitting.  Theyre expected to come in and play and play at a high level right away. So drafting Hurts now is alot more of a "threat", and a better indicator of the front office looking to move on.  And obviously this is JMO

Edited April 19, 2021 by BillsShredder83

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

But guys drafted in the first 2 rounds now dont have the luxury of sitting.  Theyre expected to come in and play and play at a high level right away. So drafting Hurts now is alot more of a "threat", and a better indicator of the front office looking to move on.  And obviously this is JMO

 

While this is true (and I am certain the front office was not sold on Wentz after 2019 where for stretches of that season he was not very good) the fact that he kept getting hurt as WEO said meant that they had to think about backup QB more than other teams. They had Foles for two years, then McCown they were in a cap crunch and couldn't keep another medium priced vet as insurance so their only route was to get a rookie they thought could be capable of keeping them around .500. Those guys tend to go early. Wentz's inability to stay healthy was a major factor in them drafting Hurts IMO. 

[MrSarcasm]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This QB struggles to complete a season.  So for him, calling upon his backup is NOT the exception, hence a quality backup was drafted.

 

Simple.

Hurts is no 'quality backup'

[Mr. WEO]

22 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

Hurts is no 'quality backup'

 

Already??

 

In 4 starts he had more 300+ yard games than Wentz had all year and led to them to their only win after week 8 bye.   For the Eagles, that's a quality backup.

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Already??

 

In 4 starts he had more 300+ yard games than Wentz had all year and led to them to their only win after week 8 bye.   For the Eagles, that's a quality backup.

 

Whether he is "quality" or not is still debatable but he is proven good enough to play in the NFL at the sort of base level that you need a backup to play. 

 

And that is what a team with an ever injured QB needed. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Whether he is "quality" or not is still debatable but he is proven good enough to play in the NFL at the sort of base level that you need a backup to play. 

 

And that is what a team with an ever injured QB needed. 

 

Surprisingly, many here are struggling with this.

[MrSarcasm]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Already??

 

In 4 starts he had more 300+ yard games than Wentz had all year and led to them to their only win after week 8 bye.   For the Eagles, that's a quality backup.

 

Exactly, 4 starts and he is a 'quality backup' already, a bit preemptive. So you are selectively using the 300 yard game stat... okay.  Drew Lock also had a 300 yard game his rookie year and led his team to a 4-1  record. I guess that makes Lock the next Brady, oh wait he played in 2020 and now he doesn't look too great.

 

 

[blacklabel]

I recall reading that Schwentz rustled more than a few jimmies while he was at NDSU. Dude has some arrogance to him and seems like a "not my fault" kinda guy, at least to a degree. He takes some accountability but overall it seems like he'd rather pass the blame. I think it was said that the dude would need some hand holding in the NFL and supposedly Reich was that guy when he was in Philly. So we'll see how it works in Indy. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 4/17/2021 at 10:22 PM, Bferra13 said:

I take Peter King with a grain of salt. He said the phinz would win the division last year. Im a very simple minded person in that way. He can kiss my arse.

 

Peter King’s 2020 NFL season predictions

Buffalo will be good enough on defense, but Josh Allen worries me. The Bills were held under 20 points in their last five games of 2019. Is the addition of Stefon Diggs enough to get them off the offensive schneid?

 

The Tua Tagovailoa watch is on in Miami. But if the Dolphins win 10 games as I think they can, the more important additions will come on defense, in corner Byron Jones and versatile linebacker Kyle Van Noy.

 

AFC Playoff Seeds

Baltimore

Kansas City

Tennessee

Miami

Indianapolis

Buffalo

Las Vegas

 

I mean they did go 10-6. It wasn't THAT far fetched.

[just1hugheser]

Indy is by far the best team not being talked about.  Their roster is ridiculous, if Wentz plays even reasonably well they are a threat in the playoffs.  If he plays like people were saying about him during the MVP talk they are Super Bowl contenders.

 

In my opinion they beat us in the playoffs if not for inexperienced coaching on the other side, if they self assess like McD and Beane do they learned a ton from that loss to us, which makes them even better this year.

 

Do not sleep on the Colts, or Frank for that matter.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, MrSarcasm said:

Exactly, 4 starts and he is a 'quality backup' already, a bit preemptive. So you are selectively using the 300 yard game stat... okay.  Drew Lock also had a 300 yard game his rookie year and led his team to a 4-1  record. I guess that makes Lock the next Brady, oh wait he played in 2020 and now he doesn't look too great.

 

 

 

Drew Lock would also be a quality backup, yes.  

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, just1hugheser said:

Indy is by far the best team not being talked about.  Their roster is ridiculous, if Wentz plays even reasonably well they are a threat in the playoffs.  If he plays like people were saying about him during the MVP talk they are Super Bowl contenders.

 

In my opinion they beat us in the playoffs if not for inexperienced coaching on the other side, if they self assess like McD and Beane do they learned a ton from that loss to us, which makes them even better this year.

 

Do not sleep on the Colts, or Frank for that matter.

 

 

Ridiculous?  Defense is pretty good (10th in points).  On Offense, They have have 1 RB over 400 yards last year.  1 receiver of any kind over 700 (the aging TY Hilton).  Only 3 had 500 or more.  Their QB is now Wentz.   

[just1hugheser]

They have Taylor, Mack, and Hines at RB that is a really nice RB room, their OLine is solid, Hilton, Pascal and Pittman isnt amazing but is not terrible either, they have decent TE's, on defense they have a solid front 7 anchored by Buckner and Leonard, and they are very young with Hilton, Carrie, Doyle and Rhodes the oldest of the bunch I believe and everyone else is basically in the 5th year of their career or less. 

 

Ok so ridiculous was admittedly over stated, but they are definitely solid and well positioned, especially with Tackle, CB, WR being deeper positions in this years draft.

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, just1hugheser said:

They have Taylor, Mack, and Hines at RB that is a really nice RB room, their OLine is solid, Hilton, Pascal and Pittman isnt amazing but is not terrible either, they have decent TE's, on defense they have a solid front 7 anchored by Buckner and Leonard, and they are very young with Hilton, Carrie, Doyle and Rhodes the oldest of the bunch I believe and everyone else is basically in the 5th year of their career or less. 

 

Ok so ridiculous was admittedly over stated, but they are definitely solid and well positioned, especially with Tackle, CB, WR being deeper positions in this years draft.

 

Solid is exactly the word to describe the Colts roster. They need more special. Darius Leonard, DeForest Buckner and Quenten Nelson are their 3 best players. I am a big Jonathan Taylor guy but beyond that I am lukewarm on their skill guys and on their edge and corner players. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, just1hugheser said:

They have Taylor, Mack, and Hines at RB that is a really nice RB room, their OLine is solid, Hilton, Pascal and Pittman isnt amazing but is not terrible either, they have decent TE's, on defense they have a solid front 7 anchored by Buckner and Leonard, and they are very young with Hilton, Carrie, Doyle and Rhodes the oldest of the bunch I believe and everyone else is basically in the 5th year of their career or less. 

 

Ok so ridiculous was admittedly over stated, but they are definitely solid and well positioned, especially with Tackle, CB, WR being deeper positions in this years draft.

 

 

Defense is solid.  The Offense really isn't--they lack playmakers.  Adding Wentz (over even Rivers) didn't make them better.  

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Drew Lock would also be a quality backup, yes.  

 

I think Drew Lock would actually be a little unfortunate to lose his starting job based on what we have seen so far. Guys have played far worse and been given far more rope in the past. If Denver hadn't been ravaged by injuries in 2020 they'd have won a couple more games and be totally out of position for these Quarterbacks and it wouldn't be a question. But this is a good enough class that I don't think you can pass on a chance to upgrade Lock if one is there. 

 

I'm not saying Lock is good by the way.... just that after 18 starts and with injury and covid disruptions last year and his go to receiver missing the whole season I'm not sure he's been bad enough that you would ordinarily say "gotta move on." It is just that there is a chance for Denver if they are willing to move up to get one of these 4 guys who are all better prospects coming out than Lock ever was.