Derek Chauvin Trial

[T&C]

Layman's question here but, why was Chauvin fired instead of being put on administrative leave with or without pay?

[Chef Jim]

14 minutes ago, T&C said:

Layman's question here but, why was Chauvin fired instead of being put on administrative leave with or without pay?

 

A PR move?  

 

And her are my thoughts on this.  Chauvin and Floyd had history and not a buddy buddy history.  I would imagine Chauvin used the knee to the neck maneuver (which he was trained as a way to restrain combative suspects) on Floyd to really "give it to him" and never intended him to die. Why on earth would he do that will all those people around to witness it?  So what does that make this?  Third degree?  Manslaughter?  Is there a difference?  

Edited April 1, 2021 by Chef Jim

[T&C]

6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

A PR move?  

 

And her are my thoughts on this.  Chauvin and Floyd had history and not a buddy buddy history.  I would imagine Chauvin used the knee to the neck maneuver (which he was trained as a way to restrain combative suspects) on Floyd to really "give it to him" and never intended him to die. Why on earth would he do that will all those people around to witness it?  So what does that make this?  Third degree?  Manslaughter?  Is there a difference?  

I was just wondering why he was fired instead of being put on leave. PR could be I guess but the way I'm seeing this is that why fire someone if they haven't been convicted of anything? Maybe that is another lawsuit in the making, I don't know.

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, T&C said:

I was just wondering why he was fired instead of being put on leave. PR could be I guess but the way I'm seeing this is that why fire someone if they haven't been convicted of anything? Maybe that is another lawsuit in the making, I don't know.

 

If he's found not guilty (highly unlikely) I think he could very well have a lawsuit for wrongful termination?  

[T&C]

25 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

If he's found not guilty (highly unlikely) I think he could very well have a lawsuit for wrongful termination?  

Not talking about guilt... just want to know why he was fired instead of being put on some sort of leave.

[Chef Jim]

8 minutes ago, T&C said:

Not talking about guilt... just want to know why he was fired instead of being put on some sort of leave.

 

I was just responding to your point about a lawsuit in the making. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

43 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

If he's found not guilty (highly unlikely) I think he could very well have a lawsuit for wrongful termination?  

 

16 minutes ago, T&C said:

Not talking about guilt... just want to know why he was fired instead of being put on some sort of leave.

 

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I was just responding to your point about a lawsuit in the making. 

Minny is ‘at will’ state. 
 

employer can fire anyone at any time without cause. 

[T&C]

19 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

Minny is ‘at will’ state. 
 

employer can fire anyone at any time without cause. 

Thanks for this... that's all I was asking. I live in one of them myself.

[Numark3]

5 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

Minny is ‘at will’ state. 
 

employer can fire anyone at any time without cause. 

 

While that is accurate, that is not really applicable here.  Chauvin would be part of a union and would require just cause to be fired.  There is no doubt there was just cause to fire him, it is not dependent on a criminal conviction, and he would not have a legal gripe.  

 

That is all I know about labor law, so i don't anything further haha.  

Edited April 2, 2021 by Crayola64

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

While that is accurate, that is not really applicable here.  Chauvin would be part of a union and would require just cause to be fired.  There is no doubt there was just cause to fire him, it is not dependent on a criminal conviction, and he would not have a legal gripe.  

 

That is all I know about labor law, so i don't anything further haha.  

I think if you’re in a union in at will state, they can still fire you without cause. The consequence might be the union files a grievance against that action, but perhaps that conversation was held, and very quickly agreed no grievance would be filed. 

 

Good point in any case. 

[Tiberius]

Pretty devastating testimony now by the highest ranking member of Minneapolis police department 

 

He just basically said what Chauvin did was not how they are trained. 

[Wacka]

On 3/30/2021 at 1:24 PM, BillStime said:

...

 

The guy is dead man - you call it what YOU want - you label it WHATEVER DEGREE makes you sleep better at night - but in my eyes - Floyd was murdered. 

All I've  heard so far os that Floyd had lethal levels of fantasy; in his blood. Either that's  suicide or nurder by his dealer.

[Beast]

This trial will come down to medical experts. All the rest is a dog and pony show.

[Unforgiven]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

This trial will come down to medical experts. All the rest is a dog and pony show.

    If America was still true to justice, I'd like to think you are right.

It's my hunch he will be convicted and sentenced hard based on the feelings and

the fear of antifa reprisals.

Though I agree he went way over the top, Chauvin has zero chance at justice.

[Tiberius]

13 minutes ago, Beast said:

This trial will come down to medical experts. All the rest is a dog and pony show.

Well, that veteran officers testimony was very damning. He was trustworthy and informative and made it clear that that’s not the way to treat a person in handcuffs 

18 minutes ago, Wacka said:

All I've  heard so far os that Floyd had lethal levels of fantasy; in his blood. Either that's  suicide or nurder by his dealer.

Basically, you and a few others on this board think that what the officer did is exactly what they should do. You guys want Nazis  harassing, killing and intimidating American citizens 

[Beast]

11 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

    If America was still true to justice, I'd like to think you are right.

It's my hunch he will be convicted and sentenced hard based on the feelings and

the fear of antifa reprisals.

Though I agree he went way over the top, Chauvin has zero chance at justice.

 

There is an appelate process. If the jury and judge completely disregard evidence that shows Chauvin didn't kill him, the conviction will be tossed.

 

The first autopsy should be enough to let Chauvin walk away a free man.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Beast

[Tiberius]

12 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

    If America was still true to justice, I'd like to think you are right.

It's my hunch he will be convicted and sentenced hard based on the feelings and

the fear of antifa reprisals.

Though I agree he went way over the top, Chauvin has zero chance at justice.

Oh, he’s getting justice! 

[Beast]

5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Well, that veteran officers testimony was very damning. He was trustworthy and informative and made it clear that that’s not the way to treat a person in handcuffs 

 

 

Did that officer say that Chauvin killed Floyd? Because, quite frankly, this isn't about officer misconduct. It's a Murder trial.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Beast

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

 

Did that officer say that Chauvin killed Floyd? Because, quite frankly, this isn't about officer misconduct. It's a Murder trial.

Yes 

[SoCal Deek]

10 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Well, that veteran officers testimony was very damning. He was trustworthy and informative and made it clear that that’s not the way to treat a person in handcuffs 

Basically, you and a few others on this board think that what the officer did is exactly what they should do. You guys want Nazis  harassing, killing and intimidating American citizens 

Nazis? What does this have to do with Nazis? Geez people....everything isn't Nazis! 

[Beast]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Yes 

 

Yes what?

 

Was that officer a medical expert because, quite frankly, I don't believe a word you say that the officer said. Chauvin killed him. That woukd have been objected to and sustained.

 

End of story.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Beast

[Tiberius]

48 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Yes what?

 

Was that officer a medical expert because, quite frankly, I don't believe a word you say that the officer said. Chauvin killed him. That woukd have been objected to and sustained.

 

End of story.

He was giving medical testimony. He explained how his training showed him how certain positions restrict breathing and that what Officer Chauvin had the suspect in a position that they are told not to do because it restricts breathing. Medical  enough for me. 

 

Testimony N.Y. was pretty damning to anyone with an open mind.

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He was giving medical testimony. He explained how his training showed him how certain positions restrict breathing and that what Officer Chauvin had the suspect in a position that they are told not to do because it restricts breathing. Medical  enough for me. 

 

Testimony N.Y. was pretty damning to anyone with an open mind.

 

What was the officers medical background to give medical testimony?

[Tiberius]

Just now, Beast said:

 

What was the officers medical background to give medical testimony?

Lol, he had gone through the training and felt the medical complications from being handcuffed, I.e. the trouble breathing. 

 

Medical. Lol 😂 

 

His own fellow officers are saying this was totally wrong, and said why (medically!!!) 

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Lol, he had gone through the training and felt the medical complications from being handcuffed, I.e. the trouble breathing. 

 

Medical. Lol 😂 

 

His own fellow officers are saying this was totally wrong, and said why (medically!!!) 

 

No, quite frankly, if you do not have a medical background you can not give a medical opinion. That would be struck down. And, again, you are saying that officer said Chauvin killed Floyd. That's a flat out lie.

 

Thanks for playing.

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

No, quite frankly, if you do not have a medical background you can not give a medical opinion. That would be struck down. And, again, you are saying that officer said Chauvin killed Floyd. That's a flat out lie.

 

Thanks for playing.

The jury won’t see it that way. The testimony was damning 

[Beast]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

The jury won’t see it that way. The testimony was damning 

 

And when the Doctor that performed the first autopsy takes the stand and gives his or hers expert opinion on the cause of Floyd's death, the dog and pony show testimony won't matter.

[Tiberius]

Just now, Beast said:

 

And when the Doctor that performed the first autopsy takes the stand and gives his or hers expert opinion on the cause of Floyd's death, the dog and pony show testimony won't matter.

The longest serving member of that Police Department testifying that what the officer was doing violated his own training, and why it was a violation is a dog and pony show to you? Ya, you seem open to the truth. Whatever 

[Tiberius]

 

Quote

 

Zimmerman, the most senior officer in the Minneapolis police department, on Thursday testified that the kind of actions taken by Chauvin go far beyond accepted police protocols.

A knee on the neck would be considered “the top tier” of force — “deadly force,” he said from the witness stand. “Because of the fact that if your knee is on a person’s neck, that can kill him.”

The threat that a suspect poses to an officer’s safety also drops significantly once they are handcuffed, Zimmerman said. The suspect’s safety at that point also becomes the officer’s responsibility, he said. “His well-being is your responsibility.”

“If they become less combative, you may just have him sit down on the curb. The idea is to calm the person down, and if they are not a threat to you at that point, you try to help them so that they’re not as upset as they may have been in the beginning,” he added.

One thing that officers learn about the effect of handcuffs, Zimmerman said, is that once an individual has had their hands cuffed behind their back, “it stretches the muscles back through your chest, and it makes it more difficult to breathe.”

“Once a person is cuffed, you need to turn them on their side or have them sit up. You need to get them off their chest,” he said. “Because of, as I mentioned earlier, your muscles are pulling back when you’re handcuffed, and when you’re laying on your chest, that’s restricting your breathing even more.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/02/derek-chauvin-trial-live/

[Chef Jim]

My opinion?

 

Chauvin and Floyd had a history. And not a buddy buddy history.  Chauvin most likely did not like Floyd at all due to what I’ve heard from those that worked with the two of them.  Chauvin used the knees to the neck maneuver on Floyd as a way to say “take that *****!”  He never intended to kill him in my opinion.  So Third Degree Murder.  Now before you go popping champagne corks @BillStime I’m not agreeing with you yet.  I think our differences are that you are thinking his intent was to kill all along.  Would I be correct in my assumption? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 hours ago, Beast said:

 

Did that officer say that Chauvin killed Floyd? Because, quite frankly, this isn't about officer misconduct. It's a Murder trial.

The autopsy did. Said death by homicide. 

[ALF]

What we can verify is that autopsies, including the official one conducted by Hennepin County, showed Floyd was killed because Chauvin kept pressure on Floyd's neck that prevented him from breathing, and the death was ruled a homicide.

 

We can’t verify whether drugs or heart issues contributed to Floyd’s death, but we can verify that three medical examiners ruled his death a homicide

 

https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/chauvin-trial-drugs-heart-george-floyd-death/507-79911bcd-3cbe-44ee-8e44-30e00baf8010#:~:text=What we can verify is,death was ruled a homicide.
 

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, ALF said:

What we can verify is that autopsies, including the official one conducted by Hennepin County, showed Floyd was killed because Chauvin kept pressure on Floyd's neck that prevented him from breathing, and the death was ruled a homicide.

 

We can’t verify whether drugs or heart issues contributed to Floyd’s death, but we can verify that three medical examiners ruled his death a homicide

 

https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/chauvin-trial-drugs-heart-george-floyd-death/507-79911bcd-3cbe-44ee-8e44-30e00baf8010#:~:text=What we can verify is,death was ruled a homicide.
 

Next step?  Intent. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Next step?  Intent. 

This is the trial imo. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

23 minutes ago, ALF said:

What we can verify is that autopsies, including the official one conducted by Hennepin County, showed Floyd was killed because Chauvin kept pressure on Floyd's neck that prevented him from breathing, and the death was ruled a homicide.

 

We can’t verify whether drugs or heart issues contributed to Floyd’s death, but we can verify that three medical examiners ruled his death a homicide

 

https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/chauvin-trial-drugs-heart-george-floyd-death/507-79911bcd-3cbe-44ee-8e44-30e00baf8010#:~:text=What we can verify is,death was ruled a homicide.
 

Yep. The one very subtle but material nuance here, imo, is it wasn’t death by asphyxiation (choking). My read is the restraint caused him to have a heart attack. 
 

Still a homicide either way, but that subtly might matter with regard to which type of murder he is convicted of. 

[Wacka]

17 hours ago, Beast said:

 

What was the officers medical background to give medical testimony?

About as much background as the actresses had to testify about Alar to Congress.

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

This is the trial imo. 

Kind of what I meant. 😉

[frostbitmic]

On 4/1/2021 at 4:44 PM, T&C said:

Layman's question here but, why was Chauvin fired instead of being put on administrative leave with or without pay?

Former officer Chauvin has had at least a half dozen complaints filed against him in the past few years for using excessive force. I'm guessing he was informally reprimanded by his superiors and when this went down with all of the video proof, they had no option but to fire him.

 

The details of one woman's arrest by Chauvin will be presented during the trial.

[Beast]

10 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The autopsy did. Said death by homicide. 

The first autopsy?

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

Former officer Chauvin has had at least a half dozen complaints filed against him in the past few years for using excessive force. I'm guessing he was informally reprimanded by his superiors and when this went down with all of the video proof, they had no option but to fire him.

 

The details of one woman's arrest by Chauvin will be presented during the trial.

I’m curious. Were the excessive force arrests all involving black people?