The Joe Biden Death Tally

[Beast]

19 minutes ago, daz28 said:

It's really too bad that Trump wouldn't allow Biden's team access, because he was selling his won by a landslide BS instead.  

 

 

President Biden announced Thursday his administration has finalized an order for 200 million more doses of COVID-19 vaccine to be delivered by July 2021, adding to the 400 million doses that the Trump administration had already ordered from Pfizer and Moderna by that date. The two drug companies both produce a two-shot regimen, so the total 600 million doses will vaccinate 300 million people — most of the U.S. population.

"Within three weeks, round-the-clock work of so many people, people standing behind me and in front of me, we've now purchased enough vaccine supply to vaccinate all Americans and now we're working to get those vaccines in the arms of millions of people," Mr. Biden said in remarks at the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

 

 

I didn't understand your first paragraph.

At all.

 

And where is the source for the rest, or are those your own words?

[daz28]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

 

I didn't understand your first paragraph.

At all.

 

And where is the source for the rest, or are those your own words?

Trump was limiting Biden's team access to most federal resources, because he didn't want to concede.  IOW, Biden couldn't get a head start.  

 

They are Biden's remarks at the National Institute of Health just like it says.

[Beast]

11 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Trump was limiting Biden's team access to most federal resources, because he didn't want to concede.  IOW, Biden couldn't get a head start.  

 

They are Biden's remarks at the National Institute of Health just like it says.

 

On October 15th, Biden said he had a plan...yet we never heard what it was. You'd think someone that had a plan to help with the pandemic would have been a little more forthcoming or was he OK with people dying at the hands of the big, bad orange man?

 

Biden never had a plan. He still doesn't......

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html

 

Anything to do with vaccines can be credited to the last President.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Beast

[daz28]

20 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

On October 15th, Biden said he had a plan...yet we never heard what it was. You'd think someone that had a plan to help with the pandemic would have been a little more forthcoming or was he OK with people dying at the hands of the big, bad orange man?

 

Biden never had a plan. He still doesn't......

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html

 

Anything to do with vaccines can be credited to the last President.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's a lot more to it than just vaccine. 

 

[WideNine]

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The current President inherited a country with a stocked cabinet of PPE, ventilators and three working vaccines. That’s a lot better position than the last President inherited. That just a fact. The reason people are pointing out the Biden deaths is BECAUSE all of this is silly! Neither President is responsible for Covid deaths. The virus is all over the planet for God’s sake. 

 

Not quite.

 

The reason folks blame Trump's administration is rather than tell the truth and promote safe quarantine practices he worried about how it would negatively effect his reelection and lied.

 

His administration's haphazard response was criticized, but he went to his usual playbook of blaming the Obama administration for not leaving any pandemic playbook.

 

McConnell echoed the excuse, but it was a lie and what needed to be done was laid out by the prior administration (see below); he chose to wing it.

 

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268/Pandemic-Playbook.pdf

 

If any of you have the capacity to read more than a tweet worth of info, read the domestic response to an airborne pathogen sections. They are eerily exactly what we ended up doing, but far too late to prevent the US from having the worst response of developed nations.

 

He and his GOP governors made mask-wearing synonymous with being on the political left. Partook and did nothing to discourage superspreader maskless events.

 

A real leader would have told the American people what he knew, "it spreads easily thru the air", "we need everyone to work together wearing facial coverings and social distancing till we can stock up on needed equipment".

 

Instead he lied and said it was just like the flu and they would have a vaccine soon.

 

I do not get the twisting of the truth to paint a narrative where Trump and his administration did the right thing handling this pandemic.

 

Had Biden botched this so terribly you can bet I would be calling out the epic failure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Backintheday544]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Democrats controlled the Government from January 3, 2009-January 3, 2011 and held the Senate until January 3, 2015.  H1N1 hit the US in April 2009.  It was on Obama.

Great revisionist history there. It also ignores the years Trump could have. 
 

But what really happened: https://www.propublica.org/article/us-emergency-medical-stockpile-funding-unprepared-coronavirus

 

After using up the swine flu emergency funds, the Obama administration tried to replenish the stockpile in 2011 by asking Congress to provide $655 million, up from the previous year’s budget of less than $600 million. Responding to swine flu, which the CDC estimated killed more than 12,000 people in the United States over the course of a year, had required the largest deployment in the stockpile’s history, including nearly 20 million pieces of personal protective equipment and more than 85 million N95 masks, according to a 2016 reportpublished by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine.

“We recognized the need for replenishment of the stockpile and budgeted about a 10% increase,” said Dr. Nicole Lurie, who served as the assistant secretary for preparedness and response at the Department of Health and Human Services during the Obama administration. “That was rejected by the Republican House.”

Republicans took over the House of Representatives in the 2010 midterms on the Tea Party wave of opposition to the landmark 2010 health care reform law, the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. The new House majority was intent on curbing government spending, especially at HHS, which administered Obamacare.

Congressional Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell in the Senate and House Speaker John Boehner, leveraged the debt ceiling — a limit on the government’s borrowing ability that had to be raised — to insist that the Obama administration accept federal spending curbs. The compromise, codified in the 2011 Budget Control Act, required a bipartisan “super committee” to find additional ways to reduce the deficit, or else it would trigger automatic across-the-board cuts known as “sequestration.”

Even in the aftermath of the swine flu pandemic, the stockpile wasn’t a priority then. Without a full committee markup, Rehberg introduced a bill that provided $522.5 million to the stockpile, about 12% less than the previous year and $132 million less than the administration wanted. “Nobody got everything they wanted,” Rehberg said.

[daz28]

12 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

If any of you have the capacity to read more than a tweet worth of info 

 

 

Your average Trumper's information usually comes as a picture of Nancy Pelosi with one sentence of 'common sense'.

[Backintheday544]

47 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

On October 15th, Biden said he had a plan...yet we never heard what it was. You'd think someone that had a plan to help with the pandemic would have been a little more forthcoming or was he OK with people dying at the hands of the big, bad orange man?

 

Biden never had a plan. He still doesn't......

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html

 

Anything to do with vaccines can be credited to the last President.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Biden COVID plan that’s been out since January: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/National-Strategy-for-the-COVID-19-Response-and-Pandemic-Preparedness.pdf

[Beast]

28 minutes ago, daz28 said:

There's a lot more to it than just vaccine. 

 

 

Right.

 

The Left is also into killing small business. There's that.

[daz28]

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Right.

 

The Left is also into killing small business. There's that.

On the bright side it's been a while since I've heard about Hillary's e-mails.  

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Right.

 

The Left is also into killing small business. There's that.

This is how your boy Trump and Mnutia helped small businesses:   — An Associated Press investigation has found that scores of Roman Catholic dioceses in the U.S. had more than $10 billion in cash and other readily available funds when they received at least $1.5 billion from the federal government’s small business emergency relief program. The Paycheck Protection Program was intended for employers who were badly battered by coronavirus lockdowns. Instead of suffering financially, however, many dioceses are reporting in audited financial statements that these assets ended up growing during the economic downturn. Overall, Catholic Church recipients were perhaps the paycheck program’s biggest beneficiaries. Church officials say they needed government relief to pay staff because donations from the faithful slowed when churches were ordered to close.

 

Just curious, do you Trumpanzies ever get tired of being pwned.  I'd imagine it's exhausting.

Edited February 14, 2021 by daz28

[Motorin']

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

My aunt died last week. 

Sorry to hear that. Too often the most important things get lost in all the arguing over things we have little to no control.

 

I may or may not disagree with you about everything. But I truly hope for nothing but the best and you and your family. And that goes for everyone.

 

 

 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Backintheday544 said:

Great revisionist history there. It also ignores the years Trump could have. 
 

But what really happened: https://www.propublica.org/article/us-emergency-medical-stockpile-funding-unprepared-coronavirus

 

After using up the swine flu emergency funds, the Obama administration tried to replenish the stockpile in 2011 by asking Congress to provide $655 million, up from the previous year’s budget of less than $600 million. Responding to swine flu, which the CDC estimated killed more than 12,000 people in the United States over the course of a year, had required the largest deployment in the stockpile’s history, including nearly 20 million pieces of personal protective equipment and more than 85 million N95 masks, according to a 2016 reportpublished by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine.

“We recognized the need for replenishment of the stockpile and budgeted about a 10% increase,” said Dr. Nicole Lurie, who served as the assistant secretary for preparedness and response at the Department of Health and Human Services during the Obama administration. “That was rejected by the Republican House.”

Republicans took over the House of Representatives in the 2010 midterms on the Tea Party wave of opposition to the landmark 2010 health care reform law, the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. The new House majority was intent on curbing government spending, especially at HHS, which administered Obamacare.

Congressional Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell in the Senate and House Speaker John Boehner, leveraged the debt ceiling — a limit on the government’s borrowing ability that had to be raised — to insist that the Obama administration accept federal spending curbs. The compromise, codified in the 2011 Budget Control Act, required a bipartisan “super committee” to find additional ways to reduce the deficit, or else it would trigger automatic across-the-board cuts known as “sequestration.”

Even in the aftermath of the swine flu pandemic, the stockpile wasn’t a priority then. Without a full committee markup, Rehberg introduced a bill that provided $522.5 million to the stockpile, about 12% less than the previous year and $132 million less than the administration wanted. “Nobody got everything they wanted,” Rehberg said.

 

LOL!  Convenient how they used 2011.  Again, H1N1 hit at the beginning of 2009 and was largely over by April of 2010.  Also again, the Dems controlled government during that entire time and until the end of 2010 and the PPE can and should have been restocked by them then, when it it had just been used up and was fresh on everyone's mind.  It shouldn't have waited a year, or two, much less 5, much much less thinking that 2 years of another admin was enough to get it done.

[WideNine]

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The only one revising history is you. 

 

Sorry Doc, its true. There are far too many that go out of their way to try to revise history, and deflect blame for a Trump administration that was an abject failure on leadership, policy creation, and execution.

 

He left a broken more divisive, less tolerant nation.

 

He emboldened domestic white supremacist and anarchist militant groups.

 

He catered to the most mentally vulnerable with lies, fear-mongering, and factless conspiracies.

 

Weakened our geopolitical alliances and influence.

 

Increased our national debt from 19 to 28 trillion dollars.

 

Peddled lies to undermine our democratic systems and legitimate election, strong-arming his own party members in GA trying to get them to "find votes". 

 

Encouraged an insurrection that led to deaths putting Pence in the cross hairs of his radicalized cult.

 

And yes, completely fumbled responsibly handling a pandemic.

 

If a DEM administration had governed so incredibly poorly my vote would have gone elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

Sorry Doc, its true. There are far too many that go out of their way to try to revise history, and deflect blame for a Trump administration that was an abject failure on leadership, policy creation, and execution.

 

He left a broken more divisive, less tolerant nation.

 

He emboldened domestic white supremacist and anarchist militant groups.

 

He catered to the most mentally vulnerable with lies, fear-mongering, and factless conspiracies.

 

Weakened our geopolitical alliances and influence.

 

Increased our national debt from 19 to 28 trillion dollars.

 

Peddled lies to undermine our democratic systems and legitimate election, strong-arming his own party members in GA trying to get them to "find votes". 

 

Encouraged an insurrection that led to deaths putting Pence in the cross hairs of his radicalized cult.

 

And yes, completely fumbled responsibly handling a pandemic.

 

If a DEM administration had governed so incredibly poorly my vote would have gone elsewhere.

 

We'll agree to disagree.  And just for my information, when was the last time you voted for a Repub?

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

Sorry to hear that. Too often the most important things get lost in all the arguing over things we have little to no control.

 

I may or may not disagree with you about everything. But I truly hope for nothing but the best and you and your family. And that goes for everyone.

 

 

 

Thanks, much appreciated. She was 91 and lived a fantastic life. I blame absolutely nobody for her death. 

[WideNine]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

We'll agree to disagree.  And just for my information, when was the last time you voted for a Repub?

 

Bush 

 

Al Gore did not do enough to convince me he would have a strong military and foreign policy.

 

Was never a fan of the Clintons going back to their Whitewater scandal days, but ol' Bill did not do a terrible job on the economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Backintheday544]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

LOL!  Convenient how they used 2011.  Again, H1N1 hit at the beginning of 2009 and was largely over by April of 2010.  Also again, the Dems controlled government during that entire time and until the end of 2010 and the PPE can and should have been restocked by them then, when it it had just been used up and was fresh on everyone's mind.  It shouldn't have waited a year, or two, much less 5, much much less thinking that 2 years of another admin was enough to get it done.

I really have to question if you on the right know how the government works.

 

The 2010 budget bill was passed late 2009. H1N1 was not declared officially over until late 2010 by WHO.

 

By the time H1N1 was over , the work on the 2011 budget started. This was also in the turmoil of all the continuing resolutions needing to pass and the debt ceiling standoffs.

 

Dems didn’t have a super majority and didn’t get rid of the legislative filibuster and needed support from Republicans to pass spending bills.

 

It all boils down to Obama’s budget proposals tried to restock PPE. Republicans were against it and couldn’t get it through, especially since Republicans were eyeing HHS spending due to their anti-Obamacare agenda.

[Tenhigh]

3 hours ago, daz28 said:

It's really too bad that Trump wouldn't allow Biden's team access, because he was selling his won by a landslide BS instead.  

 

 

President Biden announced Thursday his administration has finalized an order for 200 million more doses of COVID-19 vaccine to be delivered by July 2021, adding to the 400 million doses that the Trump administration had already ordered from Pfizer and Moderna by that date. The two drug companies both produce a two-shot regimen, so the total 600 million doses will vaccinate 300 million people — most of the U.S. population.

"Within three weeks, round-the-clock work of so many people, people standing behind me and in front of me, we've now purchased enough vaccine supply to vaccinate all Americans and now we're working to get those vaccines in the arms of millions of people," Mr. Biden said in remarks at the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

 

 

To be fair, Trump actually ordered 200 million Pfizer doses with option to purchase up to 400 million more.

That alone would cover the US. 

 

And another 200 million doses of Moderna. And ordered 500 Million Astrazeneca and 100 Million Johnson and Johnson.  

 

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

I really have to question if you on the right know how the government works.

 

The 2010 budget bill was passed late 2009. H1N1 was not declared officially over until late 2010 by WHO.

 

By the time H1N1 was over , the work on the 2011 budget started. This was also in the turmoil of all the continuing resolutions needing to pass and the debt ceiling standoffs.

 

Dems didn’t have a super majority and didn’t get rid of the legislative filibuster and needed support from Republicans to pass spending bills.

 

It all boils down to Obama’s budget proposals tried to restock PPE. Republicans were against it and couldn’t get it through, especially since Republicans were eyeing HHS spending due to their anti-Obamacare agenda.

 

So you're saying that the only mechanism Congress had to restock PPE was through the budget in 2011? 

[WideNine]

4 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

 

To be fair, Trump actually ordered 200 million Pfizer doses with option to purchase up to 400 million more.

That alone would cover the US. 

 

And another 200 million doses of Moderna. And ordered 500 Million Astrazeneca and 100 Million Johnson and Johnson.  

 

 

This is true, not going to say that they did not pre-order doses.

 

I think that was a desperate political Hail Mary that also just happened to be the right thing to do.

 

The GOP was hoping for an early breakthru vaccine that they could rush through clinical trials and get out before the general election.

 

An impossible time line really. Unless we ignored rules and testing protocols and tried our US version of a hasty maybe deadly "Sputnik" vaccine.

 

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

 

So you're saying that the only mechanism Congress had to restock PPE was through the budget in 2011? 

If Obama wanted to he by executive order could restock PPE cause it falls under executive powers of a national emergency which H1N1 definitely fell under 

[Thurman#1]

On 2/14/2021 at 12:56 PM, RaoulDuke79 said:

 

In the interest of balance, I think we need to start keeping track of how many people have croaked on Biden’s watch.

Date:                      Deaths:

February 13, 2021 3428.00

February 12, 2021 5427.00

February 11, 2021 3873.00

February 10, 2021 3445.00

February 09, 2021 2795.00

February 08, 2021 1309.00

February 07, 2021 1475.00

February 06, 2021 2994.00

February 05, 2021 3543.00

February 04, 2021 5212.00

February 03, 2021 3685.00

February 02, 2021 3486.00

February 01, 2021 1562.00

January 31, 2021 2059.00

January 30, 2021 2982.00

January 29, 2021 3503.00

January 28, 2021 4011.00

January 27, 2021 4077.00

January 26, 2021 3734.00

January 25, 2021 1593.00

January 24, 2021 1944.00

January 23, 2021 3591.00

January 22, 2021 3980.00

January 21, 2021 3878.00

January 20, 2021 4409.00

 

Being that most of his campaign politicized Covid, I was hoping he would be doing a little better in protecting the public. After all, that's the #1 responsibility of the commander in chief right?

 

 

Right, blame the guy who inherited a raging pandemic for the people who die from catching it after a day that, as far as the disease is concerned, is completely inconsequential?

 

Ask a doctor if that makes sense. He'll tell you it doesn't.

 

And that'll show the obvious ... that this is a purely political thread, a desperate attempt at a spin job, that doesn't show anything related to Joe Biden.

 

Now, a few months down the road, if Biden's attempts at fixes don't work ... that'll be the time to start blaming him.

 

But blaming him for these numbers you're counting above is like when a guy drops a safe off a 50 story building and you blame the guy on the third floor who notices it's falling and tries to get the people on the street below to move out of the way in time.

 

Trump inherited a handful of cases and turned it into millions, telling people this wasn't anything to worry about. Biden inherited millions ... and we don't know yet how well he'll do.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[RaoulDuke79]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Right, blame the guy who inherited a raging pandemic for the people who die from catching it after a day that, as far as the disease is concerned, is completely inconsequential?

 

Ask a doctor if that makes sense. He'll tell you it doesn't.

 

And that'll show the obvious ... that this is a purely political thread, a desperate attempt at a spin job, that doesn't show anything related to Joe Biden.

 

Now, a few months down the road, if Biden's attempts at fixes don't work ... that'll be the time to start blaming him.

 

But blaming him for these numbers you're counting above is like when a guy drops a safe off a 50 story building and you blame the guy on the third floor who notices it's falling and tries to get the people on the street below to move out of the way in time.

 

Trump inherited a handful of cases and turned it into millions, telling people this wasn't anything to worry about. Biden inherited millions ... and we don't know yet how well he'll do.

Just trying to keep things consistent and hold the current administration to the same standards. 

[Thurman#1]

2 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Just trying to keep things consistent and hold the current administration to the same standards. 

 

 

No, you're not. You're going extremely far out of your way to blame Biden for something which - as yet - he has virtually zero control over. You're trying to give political meaning to something which at this point is biologically and mathematically determined.

 

As time passes, Biden's policies will begin to have a larger and larger share of blame/credit for the change in infection rates. As yet, they have not had much effect, nor could they have.

 

Nobody should give Trump all the blame for the deaths that happened during his administration. Nobody. It's a pandemic. Pandemics by their nature spread like crazy. That's what they do. But Trump's whole whole deal about how it's not important and how masks weren't necessary absolutely over time had vast effects on the numbers. Which is why the U.S. had far far worse numbers than we have here in Japan where I live, which had a fast start on the virus from many visitors from China, but which then had a massive effort to wear masks and act safe show huge effects.

 

And that's despite the fact that Japan has much more population density about ten times higher than ours. Japan is nearly exactly the size of Montana. So in the size of Montana they have a population of 126 million, about 40% of the population of the U.S.

 

Know how many COVID cases they've had? 416K, total. Just short of 7,000 deaths. And frankly their leadership was solid and decent, not great. Whereas our President actually told people this wasn't a big deal, don't worry about masks, and come on to my large public events without masks.

 

Again, nobody should blame Trump for the whole situation. It was always going to be bad. But he does deserve a large share of the blame, as his policies didn't effectively fight it

 

As Biden's policies change the federal government's response and the national situation, the situation will more and more be able to be correlated to his actions. As of yet they realistically can't. Infection rates are going down, very significantly right now, but that's not to Biden's credit, the rate had been going down since about Jan. 7th. As time passes, we'll see his policies effect things signficantly. We have not seen that yet.

 

That's a statistical, a biological and a logical fact. Blaming Biden, at this point, for the deaths that have taken place since his inauguration is like blaming a dock for getting wet as the tide comes in.  That chart is purely an attempt at political spin.

[All_Pro_Bills]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

If Obama wanted to he by executive order could restock PPE cause it falls under executive powers of a national emergency which H1N1 definitely fell under 

The original PPE problem in early 2020 was not the result of "low" inventories or anything Obama or Trump did or didn't do.  There were adequate stocks in the US in late 2019 but China simultaneously withheld evidence and information on the virus in late 2019 while importing lots of PPE from the US and curtailing Chinese exports to other countries.  When the outbreak hit the rest of the world there was a lack of protective equipment here and in other countries as a result.  But we're not allowed to criticize China about anything!  

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Tenhigh]

10 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

This is true, not going to say that they did not pre-order doses.

 

I think that was a desperate political Hail Mary that also just happened to be the right thing to do.

 

The GOP was hoping for an early breakthru vaccine that they could rush through clinical trials and get out before the general election.

 

An impossible time line really. Unless we ignored rules and testing protocols and tried our US version of a hasty maybe deadly "Sputnik" vaccine.

 

 

 

I do know W9.  Ordering vaccines from several different makers was more of a sound strategy than any kind of hail Mary, IMO. 

 

As for the time line, how can you begrudge any attempts at expediency?  The timeline of OWS was posted in May:

"Among its other objectives, Operation Warp Speed aims to have substantial quantities of a safe and effective vaccine available for Americans by January 2021."

Astrazeneca was actually targeting September for a rollout.

 

I am sure Republicans wanted the vaccine approvals to beat the elections, much like the Democrats would have had the roles been reversed. The fact that they didn't certainly benefitted the Democrats, don't you think?  Do you think there were any Dems in close races who were hoping they were just slightly delayed?  Do you think the results of the November elections could have turned out differently had the vaccines been ready by November 3rd?

 

At the end of the day, I think you have plenty of things to hate on the Trump administration about, including the distribution of said vaccines, this just feels disingenuous. 

[WideNine]

On 2/15/2021 at 7:51 AM, Tenhigh said:

I do know W9.  Ordering vaccines from several different makers was more of a sound strategy than any kind of hail Mary, IMO. 

 

As for the time line, how can you begrudge any attempts at expediency?  The timeline of OWS was posted in May:

"Among its other objectives, Operation Warp Speed aims to have substantial quantities of a safe and effective vaccine available for Americans by January 2021."

Astrazeneca was actually targeting September for a rollout.

 

I am sure Republicans wanted the vaccine approvals to beat the elections, much like the Democrats would have had the roles been reversed. The fact that they didn't certainly benefitted the Democrats, don't you think?  Do you think there were any Dems in close races who were hoping they were just slightly delayed?  Do you think the results of the November elections could have turned out differently had the vaccines been ready by November 3rd?

 

At the end of the day, I think you have plenty of things to hate on the Trump administration about, including the distribution of said vaccines, this just feels disingenuous. 

 

I think Biden (at least) would have been more honest and transparent and up-front about the virus.

 

He would have had a different approach.

 

So there would have been less damage control and desperation for some political redemption (hail mary efforts I referenced) from the early misrepresentation, and the ridiculous made-up dates and  promises by Trump that put the GOP and his revolving door administration in one awkward position after the next.

 

From February to October, Trump declared at least 38 times that Covid-19 is either going to disappear or is currently disappearing.

 

During that period the facts told a different story, the pandemic had steadily become worse.

 

I also think Biden would have followed the science and Fauci's estimates on Pandemic projections and vaccine delivery timeliness rather than make up ridiculous rosey dates.

 

Can't speak for any other hypothetical DEM (or GOP) administrations, just the recent exiting one and the current one.

 

Does any political party NOT jump on the mistakes of the other??

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by WideNine

[WideNine]

On 2/14/2021 at 11:11 AM, Beast said:

 

On October 15th, Biden said he had a plan...yet we never heard what it was. You'd think someone that had a plan to help with the pandemic would have been a little more forthcoming or was he OK with people dying at the hands of the big, bad orange man?

 

Biden never had a plan. He still doesn't......

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html

 

Anything to do with vaccines can be credited to the last President.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So zero culpability for lying and mishandling the federal response to the pandemic (CDC/Fauci guidance, demonizing and politicizing mask-wearing and social distancing to limit the spread), BUT credit for funding vaccine research.

 

The cherry-picking continues unabated.

 

Funding vaccine development was not some kind of genius idea. It was laid out in the prior administration's pandemic playbook.

 

Even then I would not say it was mental quantum leap for the Obama administration to figure out it had to happen.

 

Trump also had a rubber-stamp Senate and re-elections looming so it was not like he had to work hard to loosen the purse strings.

 

So yeah, his administration did the thing that any administration would have done in regards to vaccine funding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

I think Biden (at least) would have been more honest and transparent and up-front about the virus.

 

He would have had different approach.

 

So there would have been less damage control and desperation for some political redemption (hail mary efforts I referenced) from the early misrepresentation, and the ridiculous made-up dates and  promises by Trump that put the GOP and his revolving door administration in one awkward position after the next.

 

From February to October, Trump declared at least 38 times that Covid-19 is either going to disappear or is currently disappearing.

 

During that period the facts told a different story, the pandemic had steadily become worse.

 

I also think Biden would have followed the science and Fauci's estimates on Pandemic projections and vaccine delivery timeliness rather than make up ridiculous rosey dates.

 

Can't speak for any other hypothetical DEM administrations, just the recent exiting one and the current one.

 

Does any political party NOT jump on the mistakes of the other??

 

 

 

 

 

Which scientific model would Biden have followed? 
 

The one where hundreds of millions of citizens locked down, shut down and masked up, or the one where certain citizens were encouraged to gather by the tens of thousands in the mystical virus immunity zones?   
 

 

 

 

[WideNine]

8 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Just trying to keep things consistent and hold the current administration to the same standards. 

 

Yeeaaah.....

 

The same standard would be Biden going on TV and telling everyone Covid-19 is just like the flu, and will magically go away at the beginning of an airborne-spreading novel corona virus pandemic.

 

That while fully knowing that it was not like a common flu, and would not go away without folks taking serious countermeasures.

 

Then Biden would have to go maskless and say masks are for those sissys on the Right and then encourage states and businesses to reopen and hold maskless super-spreader events.

 

He would then have to promote fringe treatments and drugs whose safety and efficacy is based on the indepth epidemiology knowledge of quacks and a radiologist.

 

You mean that standard of irresponsible leadership right?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by WideNine

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

I think Biden (at least) would have been more honest and transparent and up-front about the virus.

 

He would have had different approach.

 

So there would have been less damage control and desperation for some political redemption (hail mary efforts I referenced) from the early misrepresentation, and the ridiculous made-up dates and  promises by Trump that put the GOP and his revolving door administration in one awkward position after the next.

 

From February to October, Trump declared at least 38 times that Covid-19 is either going to disappear or is currently disappearing.

 

During that period the facts told a different story, the pandemic had steadily become worse.

 

I also think Biden would have followed the science and Fauci's estimates on Pandemic projections and vaccine delivery timeliness rather than make up ridiculous rosey dates.

 

Can't speak for any other hypothetical DEM administrations, just the recent exiting one and the current one.

 

Does any political party NOT jump on the mistakes of the other??

 

 

 

 

 

I agree Biden would have hade a different approach, and it likely would have been much less politicized that Trump's. Mostly because of Trump's tendency to over  politicize everything, but partly because the bulk of the mainstream press tends to hate Trump (not without some good reason)

I am not sure our numbers would be all that much different, though, regardless of who is in office, short of a really prolonged shutdown.   It's pretty communicable.  Hell, I caught the damn thing on a 15 minute trip to the grocery store while wearing a mask and rubber gloves.  

 

Frankly, I think his rosy predictions were stupid as well, those press conferences were often ridiculous.   But at the end of the day I think a lot of folks needed to hear that everything is going to be alright. He certainly could have toned it back by about 75% though, but that's clearly not his style. 

 

But I'll never begrudge OWS, nor questionits motivations.  Without it we would be @#$%ed right now. 

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Which scientific model would Biden have followed? 
 

The one where hundreds of millions of citizens locked down, shut down and masked up, or the one where certain citizens were encouraged to gather by the tens of thousands in the mystical virus immunity zones?   
 

 

 

 

 

The numbers show that the US handled this virus far worse than any other developed nation.

 

We just had a football season that followed strict protocols and limits on crowd sizes. Yet they found a way forward.

 

Rational and responsible guidance and policies can work to limit spread and mortality, but not if you have leadership promoting irrational and irresponsible policies.

 

A good argument does not rely on irrational hyperbole.

 

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

I agree Biden would have hade a different approach, and it likely would have been much less politicized that Trump's. Mostly because of Trump's tendency to over  politicize everything, but partly because the bulk of the mainstream press tends to hate Trump (not without some good reason)

I am not sure our numbers would be all that much different, though, regardless of who is in office, short of a really prolonged shutdown.   It's pretty communicable.  Hell, I caught the damn thing on a 15 minute trip to the grocery store while wearing a mask and rubber gloves.  

 

Frankly, I think his rosy predictions were stupid as well, those press conferences were often ridiculous.   But at the end of the day I think a lot of folks needed to hear that everything is going to be alright. He certainly could have toned it back by about 75% though, but that's clearly not his style. 

 

But I'll never begrudge OWS, nor questionits motivations.  Without it we would be @#$%ed right now. 

Excuse me? You caught the virus on a fifteen minute trip to the grocery store while masked and gloved, and you believe Biden would’ve prevented that? 😂😂😂 How exactly? By requiring you to starve to death in your house? Come on! 

[WideNine]

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Excuse me? You caught the virus on a fifteen minute trip to the grocery store while masked and gloved, and you believe Biden would’ve prevented that? 😂😂😂 How exactly? By requiring you to starve to death in your house? Come on! 

 

This is hyperbole again. Starving in your house - puhleese...

 

Sitting in your house with internet, streaming movies, ordering crap from Amazon and occasionally going to a store that offers online or phone-in orders and curbside grocery pickup is hardly that surreal post-apocalyptic scene you are trying to create.

 

I do miss the in person socialization, but think my family is strong enough to persevere till we can more safely do that.

 

The science says that wearing the right masks, and practicing social distancing, and washing or using hand sanitizer after visiting public areas cuts down on transmission.

 

Even so there are always statistical outliers and human error when it comes to safety protocols.

 

Your not going to prevent 100%, you will prevent more than if you ignore the protocols.

 

 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

53 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

The numbers show that the US handled this virus far worse than any other developed nation.

 

We just had a football season that followed strict protocols and limits on crowd sizes. Yet they found a way forward.

 

Rational and responsible guidance and policies can work to limit spread and mortality, but not if you have leadership promoting irrational and irresponsible policies.

 

A good argument does not rely on irrational hyperbole.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with the statement that I have hilighted in bold.  That's why I asked the question about the leader of the opposition party--your guy.  He's the one who failed to lead on the massive protests that the science tells us contributes to the spread of a highly contagious virus that was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.  You praised his leadership, you spoke about his predecessor, and  it was your contention that Joe might well have saved so so many more.

 

He was the democrat candidate for the most powerful position on the planet.  Millions listened to him, trusted his guidance and were compelled to vote for him as the savior of democracy.   He's beyond reproach in this?  That's convenient. 

 

In fact, the CDC let us down here as well.  For all the talk about Trump and his perspective, Faucci should have been using his platform to be very, very direct:  The protests were going to be responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands, if not more.  Perhaps Candidate Biden might have used his leverage--80m voters strong---to squeeze Dr Faucci into doing the right thing.  

 

Great point on the NFL season and its application to wide-scale protests and mass gatherings that as sure as you and i are speaking contributed on substantial level to the spread of this virus.  The parallels are uncanny--what with one being a high-end corporate sports entertainment business with virtually unlimited resources to test, retest, quarantine, manage exposure, receive special dispensation from state, local and federal governments while supporting  some of the most well-conditioned athletes in the world, with access to the best health care money can buy.  When I looked at the protests in Minnesota, man, they clearly employed and followed the NFL Model.  

 

You can close your eyes and pretend it's not so--but the man you put in office is as responsible as anyone else for the death toll.  

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[SoCal Deek]

10 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

This is hyperbole again. Starving in your house - puhleese...

 

Sitting in your house with internet, streaming movies, ordering crap from Amazon and occasionally going to a store that offers online or phone-in orders and curbside grocery pickup is hardly that surreal post-apocalyptic scene you are trying to create.

 

I do miss the in person socialization, but think my family is strong enough to persevere till we can more safely do that.

 

The science says that wearing the right masks, and practicing social distancing, and washing or using hand sanitizer after visiting public areas cuts down on transmission.

 

Even so there are always statistical outliers and human error when it comes to safety protocols.

 

Your not going to prevent 100%, you will prevent more than if you ignore the protocols.

 

 

 

 

These conversations are very odd. YOU said you caught the virus while masked and gloved. (I’m not sure how you know that...but I’ll take you at your word.) So how does that have ANYTHING to with either the current or past administration’s approach. It sounds like YOU did everything right...according to you. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

 

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

These conversations are very odd. YOU said you caught the virus while masked and gloved. (I’m not sure how you know that...but I’ll take you at your word.) So how does that have ANYTHING to with either the current or past administration’s approach. It sounds like YOU did everything right...according to you. 

9er is all about dialogue and leadership, but develops intellectual alligator arms when it comes to acknowledgement of some very basic concepts that he claims to champion.  Witness his comments on the NFL season as it compares to mass protests and riots in the streets.  #samesame

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

These conversations are very odd. YOU said you caught the virus while masked and gloved. (I’m not sure how you know that...but I’ll take you at your word.) So how does that have ANYTHING to with either the current or past administration’s approach. It sounds like YOU did everything right...according to you. 

 

Sorry bud, you must be thinking of another poster. I was just chiming in on the extreme starvation example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by WideNine

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

These conversations are very odd. YOU said you caught the virus while masked and gloved. (I’m not sure how you know that...but I’ll take you at your word.) So how does that have ANYTHING to with either the current or past administration’s approach. It sounds like YOU did everything right...according to you. 

That was me. 

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Sorry bud, you must be thinking of another poster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course it was someone else, you quoted me in your reply. I must be very forgettable, lol.  

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Tenhigh said:

That was me. 

Of course it was someone else, you quoted me in your reply. I must be very forgettable, lol.  

 

No worries. I was butting in on your debate and starvation comment.

 

Bit of a sore spot with me as my wife stocked my basement and workshop with a bomb shelter's worth of dry goods.

 

I love the woman, but she is one of those folks that would buy out a grocery store every time the news said we were going to have a blizzard.