NewEra Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 37 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: If that happens then Reid will be in the GOAT discussion as well. Many don't realize that he is about to break into the top 5 all-time in HC wins. He has said he wants to coach another 10 years. By then, he could easily pass Belichick on the list, and maybe even make a push for #1. It's amazing how thin the line is. Dee Ford lines up correctly and Seattle hands the ball off to Lynch and Brady is 4-4 in the Super Bowl. Instead, because of 2 things he had ZERO control over, except the Ford wiped out his game-losing INT, he is unquestionably the greatest athlete in history in any sport, and there's just no comparison! LOL I agree with everything except the bolded. I wouldn’t say he’s the unquestioned best athlete in any sport. There’s too many ingredients that go into choosing the greatest athlete ever. You said it yourself, Brady is a fee Ford Offside and RW int away from being 4-4 in Super Bowls. That’s goes into decided the GOAT athlete imo. Jordan won 6 titles in 13 seasons during a career in which he won 3 titles, retired to play baseball, then come back and a year later wins 3 more titles in a row, then retired again. By the time he came back with a terrible wizards team, he was too old and I don’t really count those years trying to compete for a title Pele, Ali, Lemiuex, Gretzky, Lebron, Phelps, Carl Lewis, even Floyd (except his level of competition is lesser, but that’s not his fault. Dude got hit with 4 big punches in his entire career) all have compelling cases to be better than Brady imo. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all kind of cancel each other out imo. Hard to say either of them is the greatest athlete ever when it’s almost impossible to distinguish who’s the best between the 3. The nadal djokovic rivalry is unreal. Many consider Federer the best ever but he’s sub .500 vs Nadal and Djokovic, while Djokovic leads Nadal 29-27. I’d give my vote to Djokovic in tennis. Considering it’s a single player sports, he might be a better than Brady when it’s all said and done. Dude is only 33 Brady may be the best athlete ever in some people’s eyes, but I think it’s gifted to him based on the position that he plays. The most influential position in all of team sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: I love Josh, but Mahomes is on another planet...he’s the Jordan of the NFL...let’s just hope Allen isn’t Ewing...lol I would say Olajuwon would be the better comp. The Bills passed on Mahomes to get to Allen.......sorta' like the Rockets passed on Jordan by taking Olajuwon. Like the Bills.........they LITERALLY could have drafted either. I'd take that........"The Dream" won 2 titles in Jordan's absence.......but let's hope for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 17 minutes ago, Eastport bills said: I am the biggest JA fan out there, and I know Mahomes is better right now and it's not close. Mahomes has 2 weapons that are HOF candidates and a better O-line, so that has to be factored in, but in their face to face matchups, Mahomes dominated and Mahomes has gotten to 2 SBs being behind in every playoff game. When JA gets to a SB and beats Mahomes to get there, let's have the conversation. The "2 weapons that are HOF candidates" were on the field.......along with the NFL's leading rusher Kareem Hunt........when a Bills defense that had just experienced their worst 3 game stretch in franchise history went to KC and shut down Reid and his Chiefs in 2017. With just a top 10-12 QB in the NFL in Alex Smith they weren't that scary. Too much is made of the significance of Mahomes "weapons". Mahomes elevates the level of those around him...........the AFCCG where the Chiefs were piling up yards of RAC? That was just taking the low hanging fruit. He wasn't pressured or stressed at all. If he had to push the ball down the field more he could have. They absolutely toyed with the Bills scared and tentative defensive strategy. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 25 minutes ago, eball said: I’m tired of this crap. Call me a homer, whatever. Watch what Josh does over the next few years, and realize the difference between what Mahomes walked into and what Josh has developed. Mahomes is great, on a path to be a 1st ballot HOFer. Josh will be right there with him — he just got a late start. You're frustrated because it's maddening knowing that they passed on a QB and he's dominating the league and has now directly blocked the Bills from a SB. Tough talk isn't going to change that. But your point about Josh having to develop his talent and team.......that is probably the best chance that Allen has to catch Mahomes. Mahomes makes uber-athletic Deshaun Watson look robotic by comparison so making it look easy like him isn't a realistic option for any current QB. But it's come easy for Mahomes. Allen was a nobody in HS with zero family professional pedigree as an athlete. Mahomes was top prospect in both baseball and basketball and his dad was a pitcher in the major leagues for a long time so everyone in the scouting community knew about him. He was a non-stop one man highlight reel throwing the football in college......where Allen had to grind and struggle, only showing flashes of brilliance. It's come incredibly easy for Mahomes.......mostly by his own doing.......but nonetheless he hasn't had to fight to make it. If his team keeps sleep-walking into title games it's not out of the realm of reason that he could eventually lose his edge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 43 minutes ago, NewEra said: I agree with everything except the bolded. I wouldn’t say he’s the unquestioned best athlete in any sport. There’s too many ingredients that go into choosing the greatest athlete ever. You said it yourself, Brady is a fee Ford Offside and RW int away from being 4-4 in Super Bowls. That’s goes into decided the GOAT athlete imo. Jordan won 6 titles in 13 seasons during a career in which he won 3 titles, retired to play baseball, then come back and a year later wins 3 more titles in a row, then retired again. By the time he came back with a terrible wizards team, he was too old and I don’t really count those years trying to compete for a title Pele, Ali, Lemiuex, Gretzky, Lebron, Phelps, Carl Lewis, even Floyd (except his level of competition is lesser, but that’s not his fault. Dude got hit with 4 big punches in his entire career) all have compelling cases to be better than Brady imo. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all kind of cancel each other out imo. Hard to say either of them is the greatest athlete ever when it’s almost impossible to distinguish who’s the best between the 3. The nadal djokovic rivalry is unreal. Many consider Federer the best ever but he’s sub .500 vs Nadal and Djokovic, while Djokovic leads Nadal 29-27. I’d give my vote to Djokovic in tennis. Considering it’s a single player sports, he might be a better than Brady when it’s all said and done. Dude is only 33 Brady may be the best athlete ever in some people’s eyes, but I think it’s gifted to him based on the position that he plays. The most influential position in all of team sports. On the tennis front, I’m not sure if any athlete in any sport has been more dominant than Serena Williams. Maybe Mike Tyson in his early days, but she makes the rest of the women’s field look like Rich Eisenhower running the 40 against NFL WR’s and CB’s. Tangent ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastport bills Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 56 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The "2 weapons that are HOF candidates" were on the field.......along with the NFL's leading rusher Kareem Hunt........when a Bills defense that had just experienced their worst 3 game stretch in franchise history went to KC and shut down Reid and his Chiefs in 2017. With just a top 10-12 QB in the NFL in Alex Smith they weren't that scary. Too much is made of the significance of Mahomes "weapons". Mahomes elevates the level of those around him...........the AFCCG where the Chiefs were piling up yards of RAC? That was just taking the low hanging fruit. He wasn't pressured or stressed at all. If he had to push the ball down the field more he could have. They absolutely toyed with the Bills scared and tentative defensive strategy. Josh is a year or 2 away. After the leap he made from year 2 to 3, surround him with a quality running back and an improvement in run blocking along the o-line and anyone would like his chances to ascend to the top of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 43 minutes ago, Eastport bills said: Josh is a year or 2 away. After the leap he made from year 2 to 3, surround him with a quality running back and an improvement in run blocking along the o-line and anyone would like his chances to ascend to the top of the league. I think Allen is there already. He's great. Mahomes is there too and he's simply proven to be greater. Their contests have been no-contest. They've both been starters in the NFL since 2018 and their teams are in relatively similar cap situations so I don't think it's to be assumed that the Bills and Allen can get better and the Chiefs and Mahomes can't. Beane has been competing against "Billsy" for the past few seasons.......now he has to actually out maneuver the Chiefs while also fending off teams like Indy and Baltimore who are also right on the Bills heels. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastport bills Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think Allen is there already. He's great. Mahomes is there too and he's simply proven to be greater. Their contests have been no-contest. They've both been starters in the NFL since 2018 and their teams are in relatively similar cap situations so I don't think it's to be assumed that the Bills and Allen can get better and the Chiefs and Mahomes can't. Beane has been competing against "Billsy" for the past few seasons.......now he has to actually out maneuver the Chiefs while also fending off teams like Indy and Baltimore who are also right on the Baltimore and Indy don't have the QBs that can attack defenses on multiple levels like JA or Mahomes. I think the Bills will improve dramatically on defense next season to bring them closer to KC. Mahomes has never faced a Bills defense that could pressure him and neutralize Kelce. Do that and Buffalo can play KC tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyNoodles Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: If that happens then Reid will be in the GOAT discussion as well. Many don't realize that he is about to break into the top 5 all-time in HC wins. He has said he wants to coach another 10 years. By then, he could easily pass Belichick on the list, and maybe even make a push for #1. It's amazing how thin the line is. Dee Ford lines up correctly and Seattle hands the ball off to Lynch and Brady is 4-4 in the Super Bowl. Instead, because of 2 things he had ZERO control over, except the Ford wiped out his game-losing INT, he is unquestionably the greatest athlete in history in any sport, and there's just no comparison! LOL How about the tuck? The run never should started in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think Allen is there already. He's great. Mahomes is there too and he's simply proven to be greater. Their contests have been no-contest. They've both been starters in the NFL since 2018 and their teams are in relatively similar cap situations so I don't think it's to be assumed that the Bills and Allen can get better and the Chiefs and Mahomes can't. Beane has been competing against "Billsy" for the past few seasons.......now he has to actually out maneuver the Chiefs while also fending off teams like Indy and Baltimore who are also right on the Bills heels. It's pretty fun to be in the mix. I also like thinking that Allen & the Bills could be the main obstacle to a long Chiefs run at the top. If they do stay there, they're going to have to really earn it. This moment feels like more of an apex for them than it does for the Bills. This Bills team feels late '80's to me. Right on the cusp, and a few moves from being truly dominant. The Chiefs have been there for 3 seasons. If not for an offside penalty, they could be playing for a 3rd ring on Sunday. Can they stay there? There is no question that their biggest names won't all be together for long. And the AFC in general is going to be QB central. The balance is going to be really off between the conferences. Gotta love a challenge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Physical tools Josh is equally as talented as Mahomes. Josh has just as strong if not stronger of an arm and both players can run. Mahomes however has a mental edge over Josh. Mahomes knows how to perfectly counter any type of defense that is thrown at him. Josh has come a long way mentally but he still has some defenses he needs to work against better. Hopefully he works on attacking zones and blitzes in the offseason. Because Josh can put it together like Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 48 minutes ago, Success said: It's pretty fun to be in the mix. I also like thinking that Allen & the Bills could be the main obstacle to a long Chiefs run at the top. If they do stay there, they're going to have to really earn it. This moment feels like more of an apex for them than it does for the Bills. This Bills team feels late '80's to me. Right on the cusp, and a few moves from being truly dominant. The Chiefs have been there for 3 seasons. If not for an offside penalty, they could be playing for a 3rd ring on Sunday. Can they stay there? There is no question that their biggest names won't all be together for long. And the AFC in general is going to be QB central. The balance is going to be really off between the conferences. Gotta love a challenge.... Maybe the Chiefs get tired from all the long playoff runs.........but the Bills actually have one of the oldest rosters in the league........there will be as much or more turnover in Buffalo as in KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 People say Josh is not in the conversation with Mahomes because of what Mahomes has done and what he is doing. I will say this... Sit Josh for one year on the bench his rookie year Then have the team built around him in every aspect good to go Then have that coach and that staff Put Josh In KC and bring Mahomes here... do you really think our results would have been any different? Think the results KC got in the last 3 years would be any different? perspective people. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, NewEra said: I agree with everything except the bolded. I wouldn’t say he’s the unquestioned best athlete in any sport. There’s too many ingredients that go into choosing the greatest athlete ever. You said it yourself, Brady is a fee Ford Offside and RW int away from being 4-4 in Super Bowls. That’s goes into decided the GOAT athlete imo. Jordan won 6 titles in 13 seasons during a career in which he won 3 titles, retired to play baseball, then come back and a year later wins 3 more titles in a row, then retired again. By the time he came back with a terrible wizards team, he was too old and I don’t really count those years trying to compete for a title Pele, Ali, Lemiuex, Gretzky, Lebron, Phelps, Carl Lewis, even Floyd (except his level of competition is lesser, but that’s not his fault. Dude got hit with 4 big punches in his entire career) all have compelling cases to be better than Brady imo. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all kind of cancel each other out imo. Hard to say either of them is the greatest athlete ever when it’s almost impossible to distinguish who’s the best between the 3. The nadal djokovic rivalry is unreal. Many consider Federer the best ever but he’s sub .500 vs Nadal and Djokovic, while Djokovic leads Nadal 29-27. I’d give my vote to Djokovic in tennis. Considering it’s a single player sports, he might be a better than Brady when it’s all said and done. Dude is only 33 Brady may be the best athlete ever in some people’s eyes, but I think it’s gifted to him based on the position that he plays. The most influential position in all of team sports. I'm with you; I was being facetious with the "greatest athlete ever" comment. I was reading one too many "there's almost no comparison with Brady" articles. It's incredible that Bill Russell is just sitting there with 11 NBA titles in 13 seasons and nobody even cares to mention him in the GOAT conversation. THAT is dominance. At least Jordan has come out and said Russell is the real GOAT. I guess since it was a long time ago they don't count as much... Patriots fans better prepare for the same thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: The "2 weapons that are HOF candidates" were on the field.......along with the NFL's leading rusher Kareem Hunt........when a Bills defense that had just experienced their worst 3 game stretch in franchise history went to KC and shut down Reid and his Chiefs in 2017. With just a top 10-12 QB in the NFL in Alex Smith they weren't that scary. I don't think it should so easily be discounted. Those two weapons were both first team all-pro's before Mahomes ever threw a pass to either one. Mahomes put the Chiefs team over the top. No question. But both Kelce and Hill had put themselves individually over the top before Mahomes became the starter. That's really the whole point of the debate. Allen has not had a weapon like Hill or Kelce until this season. Now he has one in Diggs and boom MVP caliber season from Allen. Mahomes has had two his entire career. Projecting both players careers into the future, it's possible but very unlikely Mahomes will ever play with more talent then he has had these last three years. It's more conceivable that Allen could play with more talent. What is unclear at this time is if that talent gap closes or even flip flops will the W/L and statistical outcomes change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said: I'm with you; I was being facetious with the "greatest athlete ever" comment. I was reading one too many "there's almost no comparison with Brady" articles. It's incredible that Bill Russell is just sitting there with 11 NBA titles in 13 seasons and nobody even cares to mention him in the GOAT conversation. THAT is dominance. At least Jordan has come out and said Russell is the real GOAT. I guess since it was a long time ago they don't count as much... Patriots fans better prepare for the same thing! I was born in 74 so I can’t really comment about Russell too much. I gained the majority of pre-me NBA knowledge from my father, who grew up a Celtic fan, ugh. We had talked about who the nba GOAT was on more than a few occasions. Whenever Russell was brought up, the one thing I always remember him talking about was the lack of competition Russell faced as well as the amount of teams in the league. During his title run, I believe there was between 8 and 16 teams in the league. While he beat west and Baylor in the finals 7 times, the talent level in the Celtics was FAR superior to the talent on the lakers minus their 2 stars. While I know my hoops, I don’t claim to be an expert, so I’m sure others may have differing opinions on that. In all of the conversations we had about the nbas goat since Jordan had retired, he always said he was the best basketball player he’d ever seen, followed by Kareem and Oscar. it doesn’t always have to be about having the most titles. Once you have enough to be in the discussion, it’s what your eyes tell you. my eyes tell me, that if Mahomes gets 4-5 Lombardi’s, he’ll most likely be the GOAT until the next one comes along. He can do everything Brady does and then a lot more. He just needs the hardware to get into the conversation imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: I don't think it should so easily be discounted. Those two weapons were both first team all-pro's before Mahomes ever threw a pass to either one. Mahomes put the Chiefs team over the top. No question. But both Kelce and Hill had put themselves individually over the top before Mahomes became the starter. That's really the whole point of the debate. Allen has not had a weapon like Hill or Kelce until this season. Now he has one in Diggs and boom MVP caliber season from Allen. Mahomes has had two his entire career. Projecting both players careers into the future, it's possible but very unlikely Mahomes will ever play with more talent then he has had these last three years. It's more conceivable that Allen could play with more talent. What is unclear at this time is if that talent gap closes or even flip flops will the W/L and statistical outcomes change? Tyreek Hill being a first team all pro kick returner in 2016 had nothing to do with Alex Smith. He had a good year in 2017, but didn’t even make the pro bowl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: Tyreek Hill being a first team all pro kick returner in 2016 had nothing to do with Alex Smith. He had a good year in 2017, but didn’t even make the pro bowl. I'm aware he was a first team all pro return specialist in 2016. His 2017 year was really good. In only 13 starts and 15 games played...75 receptions 1,1183 yards 7TDs 15.8 avg (2nd highest of his career). We can split hairs if we want but the dude made himself before Mahomes IMO. Not to mention isn't the saying always that it takes a few years for WR's to really produce at the NFL level? He was only in his second year in 2017 and broke out in that second year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: I'm aware he was a first team all pro return specialist in 2016. His 2017 year was really good. In only 13 starts and 15 games played...75 receptions 1,1183 yards 7TDs 15.8 avg (2nd highest of his career). We can split hairs if we want but the dude made himself before Mahomes IMO. Not to mention isn't the saying always that it takes a few years for WR's to really produce at the NFL level? He was only in his second year in 2017 and broke out in that second year. He wasn’t an all pro WR until Mahomes came aboard. That’s not really splitting hairs. Your statement was misleading. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, NewEra said: He wasn’t an all pro WR until Mahomes came aboard. That’s not really splitting hairs. Your statement was misleading. So you think he wouldn't have developed into an all-pro WR without Mahomes? He had a great second year. For a receiver who was playing RB at Oklahoma State just a few years prior. Sorry if I mislead you. The guy was a stud with all-pro talent before Mahomes threw passes to him. That's the point I a making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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