PPP Under Fire

[Alaska Darin]

16 hours ago, shoshin said:

I care about civility. Seems like a lot to ask that we be decent to each other. 
 

The shoutbox has been disabled for me for years. No interest in a running dialog. You’ll have to fill us all in on what upsets you about it. 

It's relatively simple:  If something offends you, ignore it.  If everyone does this, then the offender will either go away or change their behavior.  If you constantly give attention seekers what they're craving, then they're going to keep behaving like the morons they are.

 

You're in no position to demand anything and you're not going to change THIS board or the tenor of politics - it's never been civil, contrary to what the romantics want you to believe.  Maybe PPP isn't for you.

[shoshin]

46 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

It's relatively simple:  If something offends you, ignore it.  If everyone does this, then the offender will either go away or change their behavior.  If you constantly give attention seekers what they're craving, then they're going to keep behaving like the morons they are.

 

You're in no position to demand anything and you're not going to change THIS board or the tenor of politics - it's never been civil, contrary to what the romantics want you to believe.  Maybe PPP isn't for you.

PPP is unlikely to change but TBD could by excising it. SDS feels PPP adds something so it’s not going anywhere and stays what it is until we change it. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by shoshin

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

PPP is unlikely to change but TBD could by excising it. SDS feels PPP adds something so it’s not going anywhere and stays what it is until we change it. 

 

And if they cut it out, it all moves to the main board and you'd be complaining that TSW lets too much "wrong think" in for your tastes. 

 

There's that math you keep overlooking on your quest to close down a place you've spent more time in the past 6 months than most other people  

[Niagara]

19 minutes ago, shoshin said:

PPP is unlikely to change but TBD could by excising it. SDS feels PPP adds something so it’s not going anywhere and stays what it is until we change it. 

Spoken like a true Marxist, as if it were their's to change. Why not try the tried and true method: the boycott.

[US Egg]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

PPP is unlikely to change but TBD could by excising it. SDS feels PPP adds something so it’s not going anywhere and stays what it is until we change it. 

When's the protest ?

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

PPP is unlikely to change but TBD could by excising it. SDS feels PPP adds something so it’s not going anywhere and stays what it is until we change it. 

Why do you feel it is so important to change a forum that you admittedly don't want to be a part of? 

[US Egg]

5 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Why do you feel it is so important to change a forum that you admittedly don't want to be a part of? 

.....and yet can't tear themselves away from it.

[Keukasmallies]

Interesting to note that the rise of virtual "protesters" here mirror those in reality on the streets.  So far, no actual looting, burning, shooting, etc. here.  However, it is neat to see the BLM/antifa-like posters swing in the wind with frustration as they gear up the rhetoric hoping for a virtual meltdown.

 

Would that there was an Ignore button on every lamp post....

[Alaska Darin]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

PPP is unlikely to change but TBD could by excising it. SDS feels PPP adds something so it’s not going anywhere and stays what it is until we change it. 

Why don't I just excise YOU?

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

PPP is unlikely to change but TBD could by excising it. SDS feels PPP adds something so it’s not going anywhere and stays what it is until we change it. 

As I and others have said, the way to change PPP is to ignore the trolls. Use the ignore feature. Do not engage those that are only down here to cause problems.  Engage in a civilized debate with others.  Listen to "the other side" and present your rebuttable in a reasonable, rational, calm matter.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

PPP is unlikely to change but TBD could by excising it. SDS feels PPP adds something so it’s not going anywhere and stays what it is until we change it. 

I don’t always agree with your posts, but you do a fine job of handling yourself.  You’re  like a dog on a bone on this issue, however, and it seems you have an agenda you are pursuing.  
 

AD gave you an answer, it was clear and concise, time to move on. 

[Q-baby!]

PPP rules man!!!!! 

[Reality Check]

1 minute ago, Q-baby! said:

PPP rules man!!!!! 

 

[3rdnlng]

11 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I don’t always agree with your posts, but you do a fine job of handling yourself.  You’re  like a dog on a bone on this issue, however, and it seems you have an agenda you are pursuing.  
 

AD gave you an answer, it was clear and concise, time to move on. 

That's just a lot of words for "CRUSADING".

[Q-baby!]

11 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

 

👏👏👏

[Reality Check]

5 minutes ago, Q-baby! said:

👏👏👏

 

[Q-baby!]

3 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

 

Don’t talk abouT the president like that!!   

[Reality Check]

4 minutes ago, Q-baby! said:

Don’t talk abouT the president like that!!   

 

[Q-baby!]

15 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

 

What does Donald think? 

[Reality Check]

2 minutes ago, Q-baby! said:

What does Donald think? 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

38 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

That's just a lot of words for "CRUSADING".

I’m a wordy mofo, fa reelz.

Edited September 12, 2020 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[Q-baby!]

14 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

 

 

👏👏👏

[Reality Check]

Just now, Q-baby! said:

👏👏👏

 

[Q-baby!]

Just now, Reality Check said:

 

👏👏👏

[Keukasmallies]

Obama, Netflix, Susan Rice = birds of a feather.  If they'd just fly away, far far away.

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, Keukasmallies said:

Obama, Netflix, Susan Rice = birds of a feather.  If they'd just fly away, far far away.

They will probably be talking a lot to President Biden though 

[RochesterRob]

28 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

They will probably be talking a lot to President Biden though 

  They have presidents at Springfield Retirement Castle?

[ComradeKayAdams]

I came to discuss flaws with the SBA’s Paycheck Protection Program (PPP), but it looks like I entered the wrong place. No big deal. DR does raise a good point. No doubt we are on the verge of a historically contentious November election, so this forum should be proactive and anticipate a deluge of new people arriving in October.

 

I have two simple recommendations. The first would be to nominate and choose two moderators by vote: one politically left-leaning, the other politically right-leaning, both level-headed, and both regular forum users. Both moderators would have to agree on any decision to suspend or ban a user before the decision could be executed. My second recommendation would be to create a PPP user guide for new and visiting members and then pin it to the top of the first page. The user guide could include a PPP roster for regular members with basic info about their political orientation, who they’re voting for in November, or any special political “areas of expertise” they’d like to share.

 

On 9/4/2020 at 7:52 PM, Prickly Pete said:

I have 100+ on my list. Many from the football forum...I just can't stand questions like "If you could pick one player from the 90's Bills to play on this team, which would it be?" When that other Bills forum went down, there was an influx of people that I didn't feel I needed to read posts from.

 

It's all about tailoring the board to suit your needs. I see nothing wrong with keeping your feed tight.

 

You have 100+ blocked?! Why so prickly, Pete? Sometimes people have bad posting days/weeks/months. Even proven internet trolls often post something funny or provide useful links for alternative points of view to which you might have otherwise never been exposed. Also, the answer to your 1990’s Bills question has to be Bruce Smith. Putting him in a 4-3 system opposite Hughes would be enough to elevate Frazier’s defense to 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens status. If you have me on your triple-digit ignore list, however, I guess you’re not reading this golden little nugget of football insight…

 

On 9/4/2020 at 9:44 PM, ~Kostabi~ said:

PPP  is the biggest right leaning circle jerk forum of any I read because that is exactly what its core right wing partisan group wants.

 

Ignoring whom you consider trolls is just another way to censor thoughts or opinions you don't agree with.  Shocking ...Not in the least. 

 

You want to guarantee it be even worse than it already is just appoint one of the ringleaders of this forum a moderator. You may as well rename it MAGA central.

 

Yes, there is definitely a bit of a right-wing “circle-jerk” (ew…) aspect to this place. That’s kind of inevitable when you have about a 3-to-1 ratio of conservatives to liberals and sometimes an even larger ratio for posts. I’m not suggesting we create a special sub-forum safe space for us left-wingers, but more people on the right need to be aware of the intimidating pile-on effect that can occur when the points of view are so lopsided in number.

 

Also, WAAAY too many people on the political right are not following DR’s “show your work” demand, either! If you disagree with the previous sentence, please reconsider your confirmation bias. Threads sometimes become inundated with one-liner stereotypes of “libtards,” cliched representations of leftist ideology, and other miscellaneous pablum…followed by double-digit like/awesome/thank you rep boosts for these remarks, doled out like Oprah Winfrey cars. Any leftist rebuttals are then lucky to receive a couple collective skeptical/meh/confused/mocking laugh emojis worth of attention at best. This could indicate a number of different things, of course, but it could be that most right-wingers aren’t bothering to read or comprehend the rebuttals…or they have the users blocked altogether?

 

On 9/5/2020 at 10:21 AM, shoshin said:

Plenty of other one-sided outlets out there. TSW doesn’t need it and it’s got a dark history as a seedy underbelly of an otherwise good site. 
 

And putting the biggest board bully and content bomber in charge of moderation is an absurd idea. 

 

I insist on knowing more about the dark history and seedy underbelly of PPP! Is this like Pizzagate or QAnon or HBO’s True Detective Season 1 type of activity?

 

As for your comment about the one-sided nature of PPP: one problem could be that some of my fellow TSW lefties (not thinking of anyone in particular!) are too cowardly or too lazy to defend our political positions. Instead of debating endlessly on the main board whether Josh Allen is really awesome or just really good, on occasion I say put on your big boy pants or your adult female leggings, step on down from the safe confines of TSW, and enter the Dante’s Circle-esque arena of discourse that is PPP!!! Too many of us liberals use our professed “liberalism” as some passive virtue-signaling status-symboling poseur badge to indicate that we’re one of the “good people,” but then don’t actually DO ANYTHING to advance what we purport to care about (tolerance of others, personal freedoms, helping the poor, saving the environment, bringing about world peace, fighting corruption, puppy dogs, rainbows, etc.). Merely voting for Biden/Harris doesn’t count as good enough. NOT EVEN CLOSE. We must engage and persuade whenever possible and appropriate in our lives. If we can’t influence the ever-so-obstinate regular members at PPP, we must also keep in mind the lurkers, independents, occasional visitors, and political neophytes who visit the forum.

 

And any call for shutting down PPP is, as always, a really bad look for the political left. This Orwellian cancel culture dystopian nonsense from “our team” needs to stop. Those that don’t like PPP can continue exercising their First Amendment freedom not to visit it. Those that like PPP can continue visiting and using the ignore function as they so choose (though I don’t recommend using it except in very extreme circumstances).

 

EDIT: a couple spelling errors.

Edited September 13, 2020 by RealKayAdams

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 9/6/2020 at 6:53 PM, BullBuchanan said:

Bernie, who is economically a bit to the right of me but would have represented a shift in a direction that represents most of what I believe in. Warren, who is distantly to the right of me, but has a strong record as a consumer protection advocate.

They were my only options this year at the presidential level. Keeping an eye on folks for 2024.

 

Yay! BullBuchanan, I knew I’d finally run into someone at PPP who is ideologically to my left. If you’re looking for suitable Democrats in 2024, don’t hold your breath. For one thing, we could all be stuck with Kamala for up to 12 years. The best the Dems would offer you at the national level is a remodeled Newsom, possibly Warren, or possibly Sherrod Brown. There’s a tiny chance that Andrew Yang could break through if you’re big on UBI. AOC could theoretically always break out because she’ll just barely meet the age requirement in 2024, but the DNC wouldn’t let that happen and I don’t personally trust AOC enough to lead the progressive left movement, anyway. Keep developing her in the House to replace current Speaker, Cruella de Vil. Maybe Pramila Jayapal or Ro Khanna? The problem, however, is that all of these people I mentioned will shift heavily toward the center and sell out the progressive base in order to get nominated. Such is the inherent nature of the Democratic Party and the power of corporate campaign donations.

 

That is why I hope you will join me in a mass left-wing defection to third parties! The Democratic Party can’t be reformed internally and must be pressured from the outside. Honestly…the whole party needs to be burned down to the ground a la 1850’s Whigs if we ever want to kill off America’s Sixth Party System and begin the Seventh that is inclusive of progressive policies. I recommend Nick Brana’s Movement for a People’s Party. They’re building a fairly standard social democrat platform, but a serious socialist like yourself will probably like it enough. It’s where all the coolest Bernie Bros and Bernie Bras are congregating after November! Many among the always rebellious West Coast + So Cal crew seem to have already defected. The Midwest and Northeast folks are slowly reconsidering, too, as long as they can simultaneously support Justice Democrat types like The Squad, Cori Bush, and Jamaal Bowman. I’m guessing that Nina Turner and Jesse Ventura would be the most likely 2024 People’s Party ticket at the moment. I adore Nina. She is my absolute favorite politician in America right now, and Jesse would be great to pull over many of the populists on the right.

 

On 9/6/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nanker said:

Bernie is a self-serving pandering politician. He’s become wealthy by running for POTUS all the while lining his pockets with campaign contributions funneled to his wife’s fake media company who took 10% of each media placement. 
 

He’s a communist sympathizer and would be sucking the Kremlin’s balls if he ever got elected as President. 

 

Ugh…it appears that the ghosts of Democratic primaries past have revisited us. This is neither the best time nor the best place, but I must interject. The will of Deranged Rhinos’s Rule #2 compels me!! So let’s quickly review all the complaints with Bernie Sanders the person:

 

1. Commie sympathizer: yes, Bernie extolled some of its virtues during his early life and during his formative political years in Vermont. He was willing to buck conventional wisdom and explore ideas that were unpopular and dangerous to have during the Cold War era. He was looking for an economic system that was both ethical and practical. By 1990, he had settled on that region of the socialist spectrum between democratic socialism and social democracy. Throughout the 21st century, he has legislated like a social democrat.

2. 1988 honeymoon in USSR: critics of this should first read Bernie’s own personal account (i.e. not from a right-wing website) of why he went on the trip, what he experienced, and what he learned there which shaped his later political beliefs.

3. Misogynist: complete nonsense made up from somewhere within the DNC (Hillary?) and eventually passed through the Warren campaign. Bernie only ran in 2016 because Warren herself refused to run, despite HIS insistence.

4. 1972 group rape fantasy essay: frigging hilarious AND kind of hot…I mean what hippie girl DOESN’T want her innocence to be stolen like a billionaire’s wallet from a group of strapping young socialists (maybe all with Cole Beasley’s hair too?!)?

5. Owning 3 homes and possessing ~$2.25 million net worth: Bernie is a 79-year old man who has been earning 6-figure salaries as a Congressman for 3 decades, in addition to sales from the “Our Revolution” book in 2016. This isn’t even remotely a controversy, nor is it incongruent with his political economic philosophy since he’s a social democrat.

6. Fidel Castro flattery: this is only a controversy for people who struggle to understand nuance or who have closed minds. Bernie said that there are still a couple good things we could take away from that awful regime, namely a large literacy program and universal health care coverage. I like Adolf Hitler’s vegetarianism and thought he had a pretty neat mustache. DEAL WITH IT.

7. Putin supplication: this is a very fair point, but that would be because of the spinelessness Bernie has shown when dealing with the DNC during the past 5 years. Bernie Russiagated with the best of ‘em for the past several years, so how cozy would Putin really be with Bernie? Also, Russia hasn’t been a communist country since like 1992, so there’s nothing anymore for Bernie to sympathize with over there. While in Congress, I believe he has had committee assignments that gave him access to top national security intel. So if people want to Russiagate back at Bernie in the same way people did with other patriotic Americans like Tulsi Gabbard, then fine. But they are suggesting acts of treason punishable by death. I’d be a little more careful throwing around accusations like that if I were these people.

8. Family/wife/personal financial corruption via Bernie’s public service: There are two sides to all these stories, and I don’t really care anymore because I moved on from Bernie and I’ve typed enough for today. But for the people who somehow think of Bernie as a corrupt self-serving politician…let’s compare with YOUR politician(s) of choice! Joe Biden?! Donald Trump?! Just say you don’t like Bernie because you don’t like his policies and leave it at that, please.

 

[RochesterRob]

57 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said:

I came to discuss flaws with the SBA’s Paycheck Protection Program (PPP), but it looks like I entered the wrong place. No big deal. DR does raise a good point. No doubt we are on the verge of a historically contentious November election, so this forum should be proactive and anticipate a deluge of new people arriving in October.

 

I have two simple recommendations. The first would be to nominate and choose two moderators by vote: one politically left-leaning, the other politically right-leaning, both level-headed, and both regular forum users. Both moderators would have to agree on any decision to suspend or ban a user before the decision could be executed. My second recommendation would be to create a PPP user guide for new and visiting members and then pin it to the top of the first page. The user guide could include a PPP roster for regular members with basic info about their political orientation, who they’re voting for in November, or any special political “areas of expertise” they’d like to share.

 

 

You have 100+ blocked?! Why so prickly, Pete? Sometimes people have bad posting days/weeks/months. Even proven internet trolls often post something funny or provide useful links for alternative points of view to which you might have otherwise never been exposed. Also, the answer to your 1990’s Bills question has to be Bruce Smith. Putting him in a 4-3 system opposite Hughes would be enough to elevate Frazier’s defense to 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens status. If you have me on your triple-digit ignore list, however, I guess you’re not reading this golden little nugget of football insight…

 

 

Yes, there is definitely a bit of a right-wing “circle-jerk” (ew…) aspect to this place. That’s kind of inevitable when you have about a 3-to-1 ratio of conservatives to liberals and sometimes an even larger ratio for posts. I’m not suggesting we create a special sub-forum safe space for us left-wingers, but more people on the right need to be aware of the intimidating pile-on effect that can occur when the points of view are so lopsided in number.

 

Also, WAAAY too many people on the political right are not following DR’s “show your work” demand, either! If you disagree with the previous sentence, please reconsider your confirmation bias. Threads sometimes become inundated with one-liner stereotypes of “libtards,” cliched representations of leftist ideology, and other miscellaneous pablum…followed by double-digit like/awesome/thank you rep boosts for these remarks, doled out like Oprah Winfrey cars. Any leftist rebuttals are then lucky to receive a couple collective skeptical/meh/confused/mocking laugh emojis worth of attention at best. This could indicate a number of different things, of course, but it could be that most right-wingers aren’t bothering to read or comprehend the rebuttals…or they have the users blocked altogether?

 

 

I insist on knowing more about the dark history and seedy underbelly of PPP! Is this like Pizzagate or QAnon or HBO’s True Detective Season 1 type of activity?

 

As for your comment about the one-sided nature of PPP: one problem could be that some of my fellow TSW lefties (not thinking of anyone in particular!) are too cowardly or too lazy to defend our political positions. Instead of debating endlessly on the main board whether Josh Allen is really awesome or just really good, on occasion I say put on your big boy pants or your adult female leggings, step on down from the safe confines of TSW, and enter the Dante’s Circle-esque arena of discourse that is PPP!!! Too many of us liberals use our professed “liberalism” as some passive virtue-signaling status-symboling poseur badge to indicate that we’re one of the “good people,” but then don’t actually DO ANYTHING to advance what we purport to care about (tolerance of others, personal freedoms, helping the poor, saving the environment, bringing about world peace, fighting corruption, puppy dogs, rainbows, etc.). Merely voting for Biden/Harris doesn’t count as good enough. NOT EVEN CLOSE. We must engage and persuade whenever possible and appropriate in our lives. If we can’t influence the ever-so-obstinate regular members at PPP, we must also keep in mind the lurkers, independents, occasional visitors, and political neophytes who visit the forum.

 

And any call for shutting down PPP is, as always, a really bad look for the political left. This Orwellian cancel culture dystopian nonsense from “our team” needs to stop. Those that don’t like PPP can continue exercising their First Amendment freedom not to visit it. Those that like PPP can continue visiting and using the ignore function as they so choose (though I don’t recommend using it except in very extreme circumstances).

 

EDIT: a couple spelling errors.

  Trying to think of a good classic liberal here and am struggling a bit to name one.  Not trying to be a smart aleck.  Does anybody here listen to classical music?  Most of my liberal housemates at Cornell years ago listened to classical music.  Anybody here have 50 plus credit hours in government studies and if so where at?  Your position on the American Space Program both past and present?  Do you like or hate (former) Senator William Proxmire?  What decade in your mind did the US achieve cultural (read musical) perfection?  Your position on foreign aid?  Jimmy Carter : great or not?  Just some of the many questions I would have handy at the interview for the position of liberal gate keeper here.  

[Niagara]

1 hour ago, RealKayAdams said:

Quote

You have 100+ blocked?! Why so prickly, Pete? Sometimes people have bad posting days/weeks/months. Even proven internet trolls often post something funny or provide useful links for alternative points of view to which you might have otherwise never been exposed. Also, the answer to your 1990’s Bills question has to be Bruce Smith. Putting him in a 4-3 system opposite Hughes would be enough to elevate Frazier’s defense to 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens status. If you have me on your triple-digit ignore list, however, I guess you’re not reading this golden little nugget of football insight…

It is his personal list, similar to an ad blocker, it makes for a cleaner, more efficient look.

 

Quote

 

Yes, there is definitely a bit of a right-wing “circle-jerk” (ew…) aspect to this place. That’s kind of inevitable when you have about a 3-to-1 ratio of conservatives to liberals and sometimes an even larger ratio for posts. I’m not suggesting we create a special sub-forum safe space for us left-wingers, but more people on the right need to be aware of the intimidating pile-on effect that can occur when the points of view are so lopsided in number.

 

I do not sense anyone is intimidated, but in fact enjoy the attention for bad behavior. If you want to watch a “circle-jerk” watch CNN, MSNBC, etc, etc.

Quote

 

I insist on knowing more about the dark history and seedy underbelly of PPP! Is this like Pizzagate or QAnon or HBO’s True Detective Season 1 type of activity?

 

You do not appear to be in a position to insist on anything.

Quote

 

As for your comment about the one-sided nature of PPP: one problem could be that some of my fellow TSW lefties (not thinking of anyone in particular!) are too cowardly or too lazy to defend our political positions. Instead of debating endlessly on the main board whether Josh Allen is really awesome or just really good, on occasion I say put on your big boy pants or your adult female leggings, step on down from the safe confines of TSW, and enter the Dante’s Circle-esque arena of discourse that is PPP!!! Too many of us liberals use our professed “liberalism” as some passive virtue-signaling status-symboling poseur badge to indicate that we’re one of the “good people,” but then don’t actually DO ANYTHING to advance what we purport to care about (tolerance of others, personal freedoms, helping the poor, saving the environment, bringing about world peace, fighting corruption, puppy dogs, rainbows, etc.). Merely voting for Biden/Harris doesn’t count as good enough. NOT EVEN CLOSE. We must engage and persuade whenever possible and appropriate in our lives. If we can’t influence the ever-so-obstinate regular members at PPP, we must also keep in mind the lurkers, independents, occasional visitors, and political neophytes who visit the forum.

 

I have not seen ANY left persuasive arguments in the PPP including yours. Not bc of being cowardly or lazy, but incapable. 

Quote

 

And any call for shutting down PPP is, as always, a really bad look for the political left. This Orwellian cancel culture dystopian nonsense from “our team” needs to stop. Those that don’t like PPP can continue exercising their First Amendment freedom not to visit it. Those that like PPP can continue visiting and using the ignore function as they so choose (though I don’t recommend using it except in very extreme circumstances).

 

 

Agree that it is a really bad look. Some day it will come back to bite in a**.

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Niagara

[BullBuchanan]

41 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said:

 

Yay! BullBuchanan, I knew I’d finally run into someone at PPP who is ideologically to my left. If you’re looking for suitable Democrats in 2024, don’t hold your breath. For one thing, we could all be stuck with Kamala for up to 12 years. The best the Dems would offer you at the national level is a remodeled Newsom, possibly Warren, or possibly Sherrod Brown. There’s a tiny chance that Andrew Yang could break through if you’re big on UBI. AOC could theoretically always break out because she’ll just barely meet the age requirement in 2024, but the DNC wouldn’t let that happen and I don’t personally trust AOC enough to lead the progressive left movement, anyway. Keep developing her in the House to replace current Speaker, Cruella de Vil. Maybe Pramila Jayapal or Ro Khanna? The problem, however, is that all of these people I mentioned will shift heavily toward the center and sell out the progressive base in order to get nominated. Such is the inherent nature of the Democratic Party and the power of corporate campaign donations.

 

That is why I hope you will join me in a mass left-wing defection to third parties! The Democratic Party can’t be reformed internally and must be pressured from the outside. Honestly…the whole party needs to be burned down to the ground a la 1850’s Whigs if we ever want to kill off America’s Sixth Party System and begin the Seventh that is inclusive of progressive policies. I recommend Nick Brana’s Movement for a People’s Party. They’re building a fairly standard social democrat platform, but a serious socialist like yourself will probably like it enough. It’s where all the coolest Bernie Bros and Bernie Bras are congregating after November! Many among the always rebellious West Coast + So Cal crew seem to have already defected. The Midwest and Northeast folks are slowly reconsidering, too, as long as they can simultaneously support Justice Democrat types like The Squad, Cori Bush, and Jamaal Bowman. I’m guessing that Nina Turner and Jesse Ventura would be the most likely 2024 People’s Party ticket at the moment. I adore Nina. She is my absolute favorite politician in America right now, and Jesse would be great to pull over many of the populists on the right.

 

Ranked choice voting is high on my list of action items. I think it's going to be the only thing that opens the door for true progressive change in the house and later the Senate. Now that Bernie is likely out of the running for future presidential races, unless someone comes out of nowhere, I don't see a progressive in the system that I want in the white house. I'm not a huge fan of Jayapal from what I've seen from my Seattle friends, and while I appreciate that the squad doesn't toe the DNC line, they don't do much for me outside of AOC.
 

From what I've seen, most of those extolling progressive platforms are doing so from a social perspective and less of an economic or infrastructure one. I'm quite a bit less interested in social issues, as I think litigation is often the wrong way to solve those problems, except in the case of oppression. Yang is the only person that comes to mind with anything in the way of progressive economics, but I kind of think his one-note UBI message comes off a little crazy. It may not be, but I'm not sold, and he doesn't seem to offer much else.

I'm firmly in the camp that much of our societal issues, as well as our economic ones can be traced back to America coming in behind just about every developed nation in every important education metric. Until that's fixed, until Americans understand how their own government and economy is supposed to work on paper, how it actually works in reality, and what competing theories and proposals are actually trying to do - meaningful change will always come in a distant second to slogan-based populism and traditional values. And while it's incredibly important that we educate our children better, it's just as important that we expand those enhancements to the broken college system as well as retraining opportunities for workers left behind by the wheels of progress in the energy, manufacturing and technology sectors. We need to shift our focus from trying to delay the inevitable loss of low-value work and instead provide opportunities for people to tackle new challenges that a country with a lot of money, influence, infrastructure, and newly-minted education, is capable of. 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Koko78]

9 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

When's the protest ?

 

Wait, is it going to be peaceful; mostly peaceful; or fiery, but mostly peaceful?

 

Also, will there be an open bar?

[Nanker]

4 hours ago, RealKayAdams said:

 

Yay! BullBuchanan, I knew I’d finally run into someone at PPP who is ideologically to my left. If you’re looking for suitable Democrats in 2024, don’t hold your breath. For one thing, we could all be stuck with Kamala for up to 12 years. The best the Dems would offer you at the national level is a remodeled Newsom, possibly Warren, or possibly Sherrod Brown. There’s a tiny chance that Andrew Yang could break through if you’re big on UBI. AOC could theoretically always break out because she’ll just barely meet the age requirement in 2024, but the DNC wouldn’t let that happen and I don’t personally trust AOC enough to lead the progressive left movement, anyway. Keep developing her in the House to replace current Speaker, Cruella de Vil. Maybe Pramila Jayapal or Ro Khanna? The problem, however, is that all of these people I mentioned will shift heavily toward the center and sell out the progressive base in order to get nominated. Such is the inherent nature of the Democratic Party and the power of corporate campaign donations.

 

That is why I hope you will join me in a mass left-wing defection to third parties! The Democratic Party can’t be reformed internally and must be pressured from the outside. Honestly…the whole party needs to be burned down to the ground a la 1850’s Whigs if we ever want to kill off America’s Sixth Party System and begin the Seventh that is inclusive of progressive policies. I recommend Nick Brana’s Movement for a People’s Party. They’re building a fairly standard social democrat platform, but a serious socialist like yourself will probably like it enough. It’s where all the coolest Bernie Bros and Bernie Bras are congregating after November! Many among the always rebellious West Coast + So Cal crew seem to have already defected. The Midwest and Northeast folks are slowly reconsidering, too, as long as they can simultaneously support Justice Democrat types like The Squad, Cori Bush, and Jamaal Bowman. I’m guessing that Nina Turner and Jesse Ventura would be the most likely 2024 People’s Party ticket at the moment. I adore Nina. She is my absolute favorite politician in America right now, and Jesse would be great to pull over many of the populists on the right.

 

 

Ugh…it appears that the ghosts of Democratic primaries past have revisited us. This is neither the best time nor the best place, but I must interject. The will of Deranged Rhinos’s Rule #2 compels me!! So let’s quickly review all the complaints with Bernie Sanders the person:

 

1. Commie sympathizer: yes, Bernie extolled some of its virtues during his early life and during his formative political years in Vermont. He was willing to buck conventional wisdom and explore ideas that were unpopular and dangerous to have during the Cold War era. He was looking for an economic system that was both ethical and practical. By 1990, he had settled on that region of the socialist spectrum between democratic socialism and social democracy. Throughout the 21st century, he has legislated like a social democrat.

2. 1988 honeymoon in USSR: critics of this should first read Bernie’s own personal account (i.e. not from a right-wing website) of why he went on the trip, what he experienced, and what he learned there which shaped his later political beliefs.

3. Misogynist: complete nonsense made up from somewhere within the DNC (Hillary?) and eventually passed through the Warren campaign. Bernie only ran in 2016 because Warren herself refused to run, despite HIS insistence.

4. 1972 group rape fantasy essay: frigging hilarious AND kind of hot…I mean what hippie girl DOESN’T want her innocence to be stolen like a billionaire’s wallet from a group of strapping young socialists (maybe all with Cole Beasley’s hair too?!)?

5. Owning 3 homes and possessing ~$2.25 million net worth: Bernie is a 79-year old man who has been earning 6-figure salaries as a Congressman for 3 decades, in addition to sales from the “Our Revolution” book in 2016. This isn’t even remotely a controversy, nor is it incongruent with his political economic philosophy since he’s a social democrat.

6. Fidel Castro flattery: this is only a controversy for people who struggle to understand nuance or who have closed minds. Bernie said that there are still a couple good things we could take away from that awful regime, namely a large literacy program and universal health care coverage. I like Adolf Hitler’s vegetarianism and thought he had a pretty neat mustache. DEAL WITH IT.

7. Putin supplication: this is a very fair point, but that would be because of the spinelessness Bernie has shown when dealing with the DNC during the past 5 years. Bernie Russiagated with the best of ‘em for the past several years, so how cozy would Putin really be with Bernie? Also, Russia hasn’t been a communist country since like 1992, so there’s nothing anymore for Bernie to sympathize with over there. While in Congress, I believe he has had committee assignments that gave him access to top national security intel. So if people want to Russiagate back at Bernie in the same way people did with other patriotic Americans like Tulsi Gabbard, then fine. But they are suggesting acts of treason punishable by death. I’d be a little more careful throwing around accusations like that if I were these people.

8. Family/wife/personal financial corruption via Bernie’s public service: There are two sides to all these stories, and I don’t really care anymore because I moved on from Bernie and I’ve typed enough for today. But for the people who somehow think of Bernie as a corrupt self-serving politician…let’s compare with YOUR politician(s) of choice! Joe Biden?! Donald Trump?! Just say you don’t like Bernie because you don’t like his policies and leave it at that, please.

 

Rationalize his self-serving pontificating as much as you like, but he is a ***** of a person who hates our way of life all the while getting fat at the public trough. He’s a first class hypocrite. 

[Foxx]

11 hours ago, RealKayAdams said:

... I have two simple recommendations. The first would be to nominate and choose two moderators by vote: one politically left-leaning, the other politically right-leaning, both level-headed, and both regular forum users. Both moderators would have to agree on any decision to suspend or ban a user before the decision could be executed. My second recommendation would be to create a PPP user guide for new and visiting members and then pin it to the top of the first page. The user guide could include a PPP roster for regular members with basic info about their political orientation, who they’re voting for in November, or any special political “areas of expertise” they’d like to share. ...

i would nominate you, Kay. however, i like you too much to wish or inflict the thanklessness that comes with that job.

 

since this threads creation (regardless of where you stand in the political spectrum) there has been a positive change within this sub. once again, self moderation is proving that it can and does work. oft times the best solution is no solution.

 

game day baby!! Let's Go Buffalo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 13, 2020 by Foxx

[Tiberius]

11 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  They have presidents at Springfield Retirement Castle?

Good, make jokes while the Trump ship sinks! 

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  They have presidents at Springfield Retirement Castle?

 

I think you're confused ... Covid Donnie's building his Retirement Castle in Moscow to be closer to his hero, VP.

 

 

5 hours ago, Nanker said:

Rationalize his self-serving pontificating as much as you like, but he is a ***** of a person who hates our way of life all the while getting fat at the public trough. He’s a first class hypocrite. 

 

Writes a supporter of Covid Donnie. 

[whatdrought]

6 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

Wait, is it going to be peaceful; mostly peaceful; or fiery, but mostly peaceful?

 

Also, will there be an open bar?

The bar is open once you throw the pre-supplied bricks through the window and liberate the poor alcohol being held in the clutches of evil capitalism.

 

Bonus points if you kill or maim the bar owner in the name of equality and unity. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by whatdrought

[Nanker]

36 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think you're confused ... Covid Donnie's building his Retirement Castle in Moscow to be closer to his hero, VP.

 

 

 

Writes a supporter of Covid Donnie. 

F ***** k off a-hole. 

[SoTier]

1 minute ago, Nanker said:

F ***** k off a-hole. 

 

Apparently the truth hurts .

Edited September 13, 2020 by SoTier