Russia Was Not a Democratic Hoax

[All_Pro_Bills]

17 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Blaming the victim? We Democrats probably lost in 2016 because your side cheated with one of the most disgusting and evil people on the globe. Congrats! 

2016 was one of the most secure elections in our history and there's no evidence of cheating.  And rather than being the victim, the truth is the Democrats manufactured the environment and conditions which allowed them to perform and act in the Academy Award winning role of the victim when they created the entire Russia collusion fantasy.  And further, supported Hillary's whining and complaining victim tour instead of acknowledging she was one of the worst Presidential candidates in history.  So bad that an extremely flawed and crude character like Trump beat her.  That's what really keeps the Trump haters up at night.  He sucks but your candidate sucks even more and you still can't wrap your heads around that truth.  So they make up excuses. 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[Tiberius]

20 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

nice example of the left not accepting the results and pushing the big lie.

 

 

Wrong. We accepted and fixed it. Kicked the POS out. 

 

Got anymore erroneous comments to make? 

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

2016 was one of the most secure elections in our history and there's no evidence of cheating.  And rather than being the victim, the truth is the Democrats manufactured the environment and conditions which allowed them to perform and act in the Academy Award winning role of the victim when they created the entire Russia collusion fantasy.  And further, supported Hillary's whining and complaining victim tour instead of acknowledging she was one of the worst Presidential candidates in history.  So bad that an extremely flawed and crude character like Trump beat her.  That's what really keeps the Trump haters up at night.  He sucks but your candidate sucks even more and you still can't wrap your heads around that truth.  So they make up excuses. 

 

 

You are right, the election was conducted fairly at the physical election site level. As far as we know. 

 

But the Democrats were attacked by Russia, hacked accounts and the info used against the Dems, that Trump promoted. "I love wikileaks!" 

 

Now we find out the FBI that launched an investigation 10 days before the election was compromised with a connection to Manafort. 

 

Yup. 

 

You don't care, I know 

[Tiberius]

34 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Quick reminder:  after two pages of this

 

 

 

Russia was not  a democratic hoax.

 

 

.

It's ok B-Man, the American people vindicated us in 2020  

[Tommy Callahan]

46 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

It's ok B-Man, the American people vindicated us in 2020  

Fact. But its interesting how quiet those 81 million became.

 

 

[cle23]

4 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Fact. But its interesting how quiet those 81 million became.

 

 

 

Just because people don't feel the need to scream it from the rooftops, or have MAGA hats, or have TRUMP/BIDEN flags everywhere doesn't mean they don't support their candidate.  I didn't vote for Trump or the Democratic nominees in either of the last 2 elections, but if I had, no one would know either way as I don't feel the need to tell everyone I see.

Edited January 25, 2023 by cle23

[Tommy Callahan]

6 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

Just because people don't feel the need to scream it from the rooftops, or have MAGA hats, or have TRUMP/BIDEN flags everywhere doesn't mean they don't support their candidate.  I didn't vote for Trump or the Democratic nominees in either of the last 2 elections, but if I had, no one would know either way as I don't feel the need to tell everyone I see.

More the fact that biden is a huge disaster so I understand why people that voted for him would be so quiet right now. Not much to highlight. 

 

 

 

[cle23]

2 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

More the fact that biden is a huge disaster so I understand why people that voted for him would be so quiet right now. Not much to highlight. 

 

 

 

 

If that's what you want to tell yourself.  Trump's following is unlike any other in the US history.  It's not the norm, and most people don't behave that way for politicians.  It was like a sports team fanaticism.  I would say Obama has some of it, but never to the extent that Trump did.  

 

I still see Trump flags all over my area (rural Ohio) and the guy has been out of office for over 2 years.

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, BillStime said:

And in your mind you think that means:

 

 

 

Perhaps you can tell me another way to take that quote? 

[BillStime]

2 hours ago, Chris farley said:

ITs more like reality. And its OK. I drive through college towns full of BLM flags.  then see trump flags on the drive home.

 

today's politics are treated as a team sport.  most are swayed by corporate commercials masked as news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One party is not like the fringe of another:

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Rigged is the wrong word. It was more interfered with. Big difference. A foreign power, "our" enemy, used corrupt practices to get their favored candidate a victory. It's pretty obvious to anyone with an open mind that that happened. 

 

We Democrats accepted that and fixed it through the democratic process. Democracy won that battle over Trump/Putinism 

 

We won but there is obviously still some cleaning up to do 

This is complete poppycock.  Leaders of the House and Senate called Trump’s election illegitimate, a coup, and in at least one case, suggested he was guilty of treason.  Adam Schiff (RIP intel committee) lied regularly about the alleged connection and claimed to have evidence of direct ties to Russia.  50+ former intelligence experts spread disinformation to assist Joe Biden in the run up to the election.   The Dems launched 2 efforts to impeach Trump.  
 

That was just leadership…..what some extremist Dems supported thereafter was perpetuation of the Russia myth that morphed into claims of obstruction, the attempted public disembowelment of Brett Kavanaugh, spread mistrust and disinformation on the vaccines developed under Trump.  

 

Now, you’re up to raiding houses of opponents, taking about the threats to national security posed  and just a few short months later finding egg of your face as we find out your boy Joe has been dabbling in the removal of top secret material for decades.  You guys call that “spillage”, smart folks call it predictable.  
 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tommy Callahan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ lol, the dude is hocking a fiction book ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

[Tiberius]

32 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ lol, the dude is hocking a fiction book ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

Putin’s a MAGA, why would that bother you? What would you care if they hacked our voting machines? 
 

Wouldnt that make you happy? 

[Tommy Callahan]

 its a book in the fiction section to make the author bank. its worked for many lately.  just like the rest, stories wrapped in assumptions to create a conspiracy.

 

you ever hear the story of the boy that cried wolf

 

But go ahead and buy his book. it will be full of the orange man bad narrative you crave.

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

 its a book in the fiction section to make the author bank. its worked for many lately.  just like the rest, stories wrapped in assumptions to create a conspiracy.

 

you ever hear the story of the boy that cried wolf

 

But go ahead and buy his book. it will be full of the orange man bad narrative you crave.

 

 

 

 

But you hate our government, right? You hate democracy and just think we are a corporate dictatorship or something. So again, would you care if Putin hacked our elections? 

 

 

[Tiberius]

16 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is complete poppycock.  Leaders of the House and Senate called Trump’s election illegitimate, a coup, and in at least one case, suggested he was guilty of treason.  Adam Schiff (RIP intel committee) lied regularly about the alleged connection and claimed to have evidence of direct ties to Russia.  50+ former intelligence experts spread disinformation to assist Joe Biden in the run up to the election.   The Dems launched 2 efforts to impeach Trump.  
 

That was just leadership…..what some extremist Dems supported thereafter was perpetuation of the Russia myth that morphed into claims of obstruction, the attempted public disembowelment of Brett Kavanaugh, spread mistrust and disinformation on the vaccines developed under Trump.  

 

Now, you’re up to raiding houses of opponents, taking about the threats to national security posed  and just a few short months later finding egg of your face as we find out your boy Joe has been dabbling in the removal of top secret material for decades.  You guys call that “spillage”, smart folks call it predictable.  
 

 

Well, they and I believe the Russians helped Trump. So ya, they were pissed, of course. Now we learn a guy in the FBI was on the take from Putin. 

 

Would you even care at all---I'll humor you with an "if"--if Putin hacked the Democrats? If he used his connections in FBI to throw the election? 

 

Would you? 

[Tommy Callahan]

oh tibs. that's a stilly strawman 

 

and you again hocking the big lie that's devoid of any evidence.

 

but do line up with the folks that say those devices can be hacked, that you call nuts.

 

My favorite part about the Russian disinformation is when Michael Moore was re tweeting them and organized a protest in front of the trump tower.  

 

 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

14 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Well, they and I believe the Russians helped Trump. So ya, they were pissed, of course. Now we learn a guy in the FBI was on the take from Putin. 

 

Would you even care at all---I'll humor you with an "if"--if Putin hacked the Democrats? If he used his connections in FBI to throw the election? 

 

Would you? 

Being “pissed” has nothing to do with supporting claims of an election that was illegitimate and treasonous behavior to put a president in the WH.  I want to be clear—you supported that, and now want to draw some sort of moral equivalence between anger that the favored candidate was trounced with running a 4 year operation to unseat a lawfully and legitimately elected president.  
 

You, and people like you, are the reason we get stop the steal and claims of Russia in the WH.   You, and people like you, did not accept the results of the Trump election, you supported the very behavior you claim to abhor. 
 

I would care about Putin hacking the Dems, the Rs, or anyone else.  Same for the Chinese.  Sadly, after seeing how our current industrious leader has violated laws of the land and the guidelines of common sense, I would not be surprised at all to find it has happened regularly over the past 20 years.  
 

Btw, I also care about unsubstantiated claims of illegitimate elections and those that are stolen.   Of the two of us, I seem to be the only one who consistently cares.  

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 I would care about Putin hacking the Dems, the Rs, or anyone else.  Same for the Chinese.  Sadly, after seeing how our current industrious leader has violated laws of the land and the guidelines of common sense, I would not be surprised at all to find it has happened regularly over the past 20 years.  

 

You do? Then why don't you? The DNC was hacked by the Russians. The intelligence services said so. 

 

You believe our intelligence agencies, right? Or no? 

 

Putin is a MAGA. Trump called his brutal invasion of Ukraine "genius" That's sick sucking up 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Just now, B-Man said:

 

 

Repeated for truth.

 

 

.

Do you acknowledge the truth that the Russians hacked the DNC? 

[B-Man]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Do you acknowledge the truth that the Russians hacked the DNC? 

 

 

No.

 

They were not "hacked"

 

The files were stolen, by someone with access,  and released  (thats NOT hacking in)

 

Most people know this difference, some ignore it.

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/29/us/politics/democratic-national-committee-hack.html

The D.N.C. Didn’t Get Hacked in 2020. Here’s Why.

A devastating email breach of the D.N.C. roiled Democrats in the final months of 2016. An unassuming security official made it his mission to prevent a recurrence.

 

 

 

ADDED: Oh, and that is why the thread title is incorrect, Russia (scandal) WAS a democrat hoax.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited January 26, 2023 by B-Man

[All_Pro_Bills]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Do you acknowledge the truth that the Russians hacked the DNC? 

That's not the truth.  That was a conclusion expressed by specific members of the intelligence community.  Without associated evidence.  Without any examination of the servers.  Without questioning anyone with access to the machines.  An opinion, nothing more.  Because the DNC refused to allow the FBI or any other law enforcement agency to examine the servers.  It could have been a hack, it could have been a leak.    

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

No.

 

They were not "hacked"

 

The files were stolen, by someone with access,  and released  (thats NOT hacking in)

 

Most people know this difference, some ignore it.

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/29/us/politics/democratic-national-committee-hack.html

The D.N.C. Didn’t Get Hacked in 2020. Here’s Why.

A devastating email breach of the D.N.C. roiled Democrats in the final months of 2016. An unassuming security official made it his mission to prevent a recurrence.

 

 

 

ADDED: Oh, and that is why the thread title is incorrect, Russia (scandal) WAS a democrat hoax.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Lol, ya, they were hit with a phishing hack. See, you just don't care. 

 

That's all I'm saying. You guys are happy for Putin's help 

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

That's not the truth.  That was a conclusion expressed by specific members of the intelligence community.  Without associated evidence.  Without any examination of the servers.  Without questioning anyone with access to the machines.  An opinion, nothing more.  Because the DNC refused to allow the FBI or any other law enforcement agency to examine the servers.  It could have been a hack, it could have been a leak.    

So our intelligence community was wrong? Ok 

 

 

[B-Man]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Lol, ya, they were hit with a phishing hack. See, you just don't care. 

 

That's all I'm saying. You guys are happy for Putin's help 

 

 

 

Repetition of the Lie, does NOT make it true. . . . . . . . . . at least to adults.

 

(that's all I'm saying)  Finally we agree.

 

That's ALL that you keep saying, irregardless of the thread.

 

😂

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Repetition of the Lie, does NOT make it true. . . . . . . . . . at least to adults.

 

(that's all I'm saying)  Finally we agree.

 

That's ALL that you keep saying, irregardless of the thread.

 

😂

 

 

.

But it is true. Russia influenced the 2016 election in more ways than realized back then. 

 

FBI agents that are compromised by Putin had no choice but to do Vlads bidding, or be exposed. 

 

Why was Trump running around saying, "I love Wikileaks!" ? 

[JDHillFan]

22 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

24 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So our intelligence community was wrong? Ok 

Imagine after everything that’s gone on across the board and still believing that our intelligence community doesn’t get anything wrong. Talk about an army of one. Carry on!

[Tiberius]

12 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Imagine after everything that’s gone on across the board and still believing that our intelligence community doesn’t get anything wrong. Talk about an army of one. Carry on!

So all eight intelligence agencies were wrong, is that what you are going by? 

 

And Trump's obvious infatuation with Putin was just friendly banter? 

 

And the bi-partisan Senate report was wrong, also, correct? 

https://apnews.com/article/d094918c0421b872eac7dc4b16e613c7

 

So glad the American people rose up in 2020 and threw the traitor Trump out! 

[All_Pro_Bills]

45 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So our intelligence community was wrong? Ok

You just don't want to get it.  They provided a consensus opinion without examining any evidence.  An opinion absent fact.  Which in my business is what we call a SWAG, a stupid wild ass guess.  Wrong?  How about irresponsible and unprofessional.  I'll leave it at that.

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

You just don't want to get it.  They provided a consensus opinion without examining any evidence.  An opinion absent fact.  Which in my business is what we call a SWAG, a stupid wild ass guess.  Wrong?  How about irresponsible and unprofessional.  I'll leave it at that.

No evidence? So they were just spewing anti-Trump stuff, imo. Or something, huh? 

 

Would you care if Trump stole the election with Putin's help? If that happened, would you even care? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No evidence? So they were just spewing anti-Trump stuff, imo. Or something, huh? 

 

Would you care if Trump stole the election with Putin's help? If that happened, would you even care? 

These IC people rendered an opinion without facts.  As for their motivations, don't ask me, ask them. 

[Tiberius]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

These IC people rendered an opinion without facts.  As for their motivations, don't ask me, ask them. 

How do you know there were no facts? 

 

Was this the same with the bi-partisan Senate report? 

 

Again, would you even care if it happed? I doubt you would. 

 

MAGA is a fascist movement 

[All_Pro_Bills]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

How do you know there were no facts? 

 

Was this the same with the bi-partisan Senate report? 

 

Again, would you even care if it happed? I doubt you would. 

 

MAGA is a fascist movement 

Because they issued their assessment and called it a "conclusion" while noting they did not examine any server or forensic information.  That sounds like a guess to me.   

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Because they issued their assessment and called it a "conclusion" while noting they did not examine any server or forensic information.  That sounds like a guess to me.   

Oh, I'm sure they did. That's why Mueller indicted the Russian Troll farm people 

[ChiGoose]

It’s amazing to me that people are still debating this. 
 

If you believe either:

-Russia did not try to influence the 2016 election; or

- The Trump campaign did not attempt to work with Russians to win the election;

 

then you’re just ignorant. It’s not even worth debating because at this point, it’s like arguing with someone who says the sky is green. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

9 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No evidence? So they were just spewing anti-Trump stuff, imo. Or something, huh? 

The Dems were absolutely spewing anti-Trump stuff.  Absolutely demolished the concept of safe and secure elections in our country.  
 

Lots of people didn’t care then, it seems presumptuous to demand more of them than you demand of yourself.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh, I'm sure they did. That's why Mueller indicted the Russian Troll farm people 

It's extremely irrational that you won't admit to something that the people doing the assessment have admitted to doing.  Why can't you just accept the fact the IC community assessment was formulating without examining the servers or any data related to the servers?  That's exactly what they stated.  But you're insisting they lied. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

43 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

It’s amazing to me that people are still debating this. 
 

If you believe either:

-Russia did not try to influence the 2016 election; or

- The Trump campaign did not attempt to work with Russians to win the election;

 

then you’re just ignorant. It’s not even worth debating because at this point, it’s like arguing with someone who says the sky is green. 

I would think the only bigger waste of time is taking the time to declare how much time you are wasting wasting time. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

From the Senate report: 

 

Paul Manafort’s presence on the Trump Campaign and proximity to then-Candidate Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and acquire confidential information on, the Trump Campaign.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/rubio-statement-senate-intel-release-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

The Dems were absolutely spewing anti-Trump stuff.  Absolutely demolished the concept of safe and secure elections in our country.  
 

Lots of people didn’t care then, it seems presumptuous to demand more of them than you demand of yourself.  

How dare they!!!! 

 

Yes, it was the Dems fault Russia wanted Trump to be president! 

 

🙄

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

It's extremely irrational that you won't admit to something that the people doing the assessment have admitted to doing.  Why can't you just accept the fact the IC community assessment was formulating without examining the servers or any data related to the servers?  That's exactly what they stated.  But you're insisting they lied. 

They found Russia wanted Trump to win, and helped him 

[JDHillFan]

56 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

From the Senate report: 

 

Paul Manafort’s presence on the Trump Campaign and proximity to then-Candidate Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and acquire confidential information on, the Trump Campaign.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/rubio-statement-senate-intel-release-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report

How dare they!!!! 

 

Yes, it was the Dems fault Russia wanted Trump to be president! 

 

🙄

They found Russia wanted Trump to win, and helped him 

They wanted him to win so they could conduct a “minor incursion” into Ukraine but then decided to wait. 
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/20/bidens-minor-incursion-remark-was-more-than-just-gaffe-it-revealed-weak-president/